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I've changed the name of this page. Sounds like anti-Arabic title. The reason why such invasion occurred is because of the Spread of Islam and successful Islamic conquest. Prior to the 7 century the Arabs in general did not have the capacity to conquer. They weren't warriors, just merchants and poets. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
92.3.95.180 (
talk) 13:28, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
The image is nice, but the forum wasn't destroyed in the sack of 846 (or at least, not uniquely). Is there a better image we could use? — Ryan McDaniel 21:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
My view on this:
Funny that when Rome goes out and terrorizes another city/nation it is a 'conquest' and when the Muslims sack Rome it is terror... i recommend that this word not be used because of the incorecct connotations implied i.e that muslims are terrorists and always were ... the conquest of new lands was a reality of the middle ages, that was carried out by everyone and should be understood as such without adding any subjective inferences except in explicitly opinion based articles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.81.222.5 ( talk) 08:52, 28 December 2006 (UTC).
I removed the image whose caption wrongly stated that it showed the Leonine wall (it actually just showed the Vatican city wall). The remnants of the Leonine wall can be found within the border of the Vatican. Gugganij 20:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I have never read nor heard anything of this supposed sack of Rome by the Saracens. It is not listed under any of the other Islam and Italy sections, nor is there any citations. As well, searching other encyclopedias, I have found no mention of this supposed sack. I believe this article to be false, and unless someone is prepared to show any evidence of this event, I propose and will move forward with it's deletion. Izzodinapoli ( talk) 08:19, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
The article should be renamed to Attack or Invasion of Rome, Rome was never sacked by Saracens. The title is very misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.228.125.210 ( talk) 13:47, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Muslim raiders plundered the outskirts of the city of Rome, yet the article mentions ARABS. It should be moved to something like Muslim invasion or conquest of Rome. Also the Aghlabids were not fully arabs, and Muhammad Abul Abbas of Sicily's ideology was something like jihad. There are also some theological narratives about the the invasion of Rome, but this will be added later in a separated section titled Muslim views just like the conquests of Constantinople (with sources obviously).-- Widerhelen ( talk) 20:09, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The Last Hour will not be established until you (Muslims) conquer Constantinople and Rome". Abdullah bin Amr bin Al-As (May Allah’s mercy be upon him) questioned: “Which city will be liberated first; Constantinople or Rome?” The Prophet said, “Indeed, the city of Heraclius (Byzantinium) will be liberated first." So we all know that this prophecy was fulfilled in 1453 when the Ottoman Caliphate under Mehmet the Conqueror took it over, an event known as Fall of Constantinople. Today the city is known as Istanbul, the largest in Europe, and still remain a Muslim territory despite the end of the Caliphate and the introduction of Kemalism. But what about Rome, one of the birthplaces on the western civilisation, that produced and was influenced by history’s notable military leaders and emperors such as Caesar, Augustus, Caligula, Tiberius, Nero, Trajan, Hadrian? ALLAH The Almighty knows best. Today Muslims neither have that type of powerful military force nor the Muslims are interested in conquering further territories, indeed they are struggling with many other occupied lands. Italy, a EU founding father, has a large Muslim diaspora and it also has the largest mosque in the western world (by land area), Mosque of Rome. Maybe this time Jihad will not be done by sword, but through dawa’h. The number of Italians converting to Islam is not low.
Last Hour means something like the end of the world here. Again, this is just theological point of view taken from somewhere, pasted here so you can read it (btw most Muslims are not even aware of such religious future telling, and they are not obsessed with Islamicising Rome, but they were serious before about the Constanitonple, which was known as Easter Rome in Quranic terms, especially after the Muslim conquers of Spain which is Al-Andalus). The quote or the prediction, known as narratives of Islam, is what matters, since such prophetic words strongly affect its followers i.e. this lead to Siege of Constantinople (674–678) and perhaps even the attack on Rome.-- Widerhelen ( talk) 18:24, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
Just to let you gentlemen know, Widerhelen has been confirmed as a sock. So unless someone is adamant about moving this article, do not worry about the discussion with the sock puppet. -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 02:40, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
"so-called Pharum Hadriani". I wondered what this was; there are no Google matches except Wikipedia mirrors.
The reference is to an Italian translation of Gregorovius; the original 1860 German has
Possible interpretations of Gregorovius:
Since Anastasius doesnt seem to me to mention Hadrian in n. 576, I favour interpretation #1.
But still, what's a pharus/pharum? A study of the early Basilica of Saint John Lateran says that in that church the "farum or farum cantharum" was the most prestigious type of light, and hung like a chandelier with oil lamps. [1] But if Gregorovius interepretation #1 is correct, the farum in St Peter's sat on four legs so it must have been different. But I guess still a light or lantern of some kind. jnestorius( talk) 02:03, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
References
This article was nominated for deletion on 2008-01-16. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I've changed the name of this page. Sounds like anti-Arabic title. The reason why such invasion occurred is because of the Spread of Islam and successful Islamic conquest. Prior to the 7 century the Arabs in general did not have the capacity to conquer. They weren't warriors, just merchants and poets. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
92.3.95.180 (
talk) 13:28, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
The image is nice, but the forum wasn't destroyed in the sack of 846 (or at least, not uniquely). Is there a better image we could use? — Ryan McDaniel 21:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
My view on this:
Funny that when Rome goes out and terrorizes another city/nation it is a 'conquest' and when the Muslims sack Rome it is terror... i recommend that this word not be used because of the incorecct connotations implied i.e that muslims are terrorists and always were ... the conquest of new lands was a reality of the middle ages, that was carried out by everyone and should be understood as such without adding any subjective inferences except in explicitly opinion based articles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.81.222.5 ( talk) 08:52, 28 December 2006 (UTC).
I removed the image whose caption wrongly stated that it showed the Leonine wall (it actually just showed the Vatican city wall). The remnants of the Leonine wall can be found within the border of the Vatican. Gugganij 20:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I have never read nor heard anything of this supposed sack of Rome by the Saracens. It is not listed under any of the other Islam and Italy sections, nor is there any citations. As well, searching other encyclopedias, I have found no mention of this supposed sack. I believe this article to be false, and unless someone is prepared to show any evidence of this event, I propose and will move forward with it's deletion. Izzodinapoli ( talk) 08:19, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
The article should be renamed to Attack or Invasion of Rome, Rome was never sacked by Saracens. The title is very misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.228.125.210 ( talk) 13:47, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Muslim raiders plundered the outskirts of the city of Rome, yet the article mentions ARABS. It should be moved to something like Muslim invasion or conquest of Rome. Also the Aghlabids were not fully arabs, and Muhammad Abul Abbas of Sicily's ideology was something like jihad. There are also some theological narratives about the the invasion of Rome, but this will be added later in a separated section titled Muslim views just like the conquests of Constantinople (with sources obviously).-- Widerhelen ( talk) 20:09, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The Last Hour will not be established until you (Muslims) conquer Constantinople and Rome". Abdullah bin Amr bin Al-As (May Allah’s mercy be upon him) questioned: “Which city will be liberated first; Constantinople or Rome?” The Prophet said, “Indeed, the city of Heraclius (Byzantinium) will be liberated first." So we all know that this prophecy was fulfilled in 1453 when the Ottoman Caliphate under Mehmet the Conqueror took it over, an event known as Fall of Constantinople. Today the city is known as Istanbul, the largest in Europe, and still remain a Muslim territory despite the end of the Caliphate and the introduction of Kemalism. But what about Rome, one of the birthplaces on the western civilisation, that produced and was influenced by history’s notable military leaders and emperors such as Caesar, Augustus, Caligula, Tiberius, Nero, Trajan, Hadrian? ALLAH The Almighty knows best. Today Muslims neither have that type of powerful military force nor the Muslims are interested in conquering further territories, indeed they are struggling with many other occupied lands. Italy, a EU founding father, has a large Muslim diaspora and it also has the largest mosque in the western world (by land area), Mosque of Rome. Maybe this time Jihad will not be done by sword, but through dawa’h. The number of Italians converting to Islam is not low.
Last Hour means something like the end of the world here. Again, this is just theological point of view taken from somewhere, pasted here so you can read it (btw most Muslims are not even aware of such religious future telling, and they are not obsessed with Islamicising Rome, but they were serious before about the Constanitonple, which was known as Easter Rome in Quranic terms, especially after the Muslim conquers of Spain which is Al-Andalus). The quote or the prediction, known as narratives of Islam, is what matters, since such prophetic words strongly affect its followers i.e. this lead to Siege of Constantinople (674–678) and perhaps even the attack on Rome.-- Widerhelen ( talk) 18:24, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
Just to let you gentlemen know, Widerhelen has been confirmed as a sock. So unless someone is adamant about moving this article, do not worry about the discussion with the sock puppet. -- Kansas Bear ( talk) 02:40, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
"so-called Pharum Hadriani". I wondered what this was; there are no Google matches except Wikipedia mirrors.
The reference is to an Italian translation of Gregorovius; the original 1860 German has
Possible interpretations of Gregorovius:
Since Anastasius doesnt seem to me to mention Hadrian in n. 576, I favour interpretation #1.
But still, what's a pharus/pharum? A study of the early Basilica of Saint John Lateran says that in that church the "farum or farum cantharum" was the most prestigious type of light, and hung like a chandelier with oil lamps. [1] But if Gregorovius interepretation #1 is correct, the farum in St Peter's sat on four legs so it must have been different. But I guess still a light or lantern of some kind. jnestorius( talk) 02:03, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
References