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There were also minor protests in Libya. It should be added to the article. http://wlcentral.org/node/1102 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.218.28 ( talk) 06:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
one can add the pan-arab list of self-immolations to this one, then it can also be cut off from the bouazizi article.( Lihaas ( talk) 09:37, 29 January 2011 (UTC)).
[1] "day of ragE" albeit diffeerent reasons but was wondering if it could/should be added herE?( Lihaas ( talk) 14:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)).
"On social media sites such as Facebook and Twitter, Syrians call for a "Day of Anger" on February 5th."
Would somebody mind providing a citation for this claim? I've searched for one, but couldn't find anything. Master&Expert ( Talk) 06:25, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
IMHO the Timeline table is a nice idea, but it needs some thinking through. i think the "date ended" column is not a good idea in the Timeline section. Even "date started" is risking POV, lack of RS. On the Algerian protests talk page, there's a comment pointing out that the protests have been going on since 2002. So what is really meant by "date started" is something like "date when protests started growing exponentially and/or were perceived by Western mainstream media to become significant". But what can we replace it with?
IMHO replacing "ending date" is easier. How about replacing this by "critical dates" or "important dates"? Maybe we could even replace both starting and ending dates by allowing maybe a max of 3 columns for critical dates? By comparing various RS's, in some cases critical dates will be obvious, and in other cases, at least it should be easier to come to consensus on the talk page regarding "which date(s) was (were) more critical given the sources we have" rather than "on which date did this start/end". As more sources come in and events happen and third party analysts give their opinions on which dates were more important, the quality of the table will improve.
Someone good with tables would have to implement this. Or does someone have a better suggestion? An example could be for the Tunisian case - i'm not sure which "starting" date would count as critical, but clearly the two days when Ben Ali left and Mebazaa became acting president should count as one critical pair-of-days, and maybe the day that the new cabinet was purged of all ex-RCD people except for Ghannouchi himself would count as another critical day, though certainly not an "end date" - parliamentary and presidential elections would likely be interpreted as some sort of an end date of the change of power, but i would expect that historians would consider that fundamental social changes would take place over several years.
Are there any objections to replacing both the starting and ending date columns by a "critical dates" column (or 2-3 columns, or allowing a substructure)? Boud ( talk) 22:17, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
On the map, Eritrea is listed as an arab country, it is not an arab country. It refused to join the Arab league, and does not identify itself at one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.115.197.40 ( talk) 02:15, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Any thoughts on having an infobox template that goes near the top of the individual country protest pages, not just the sort of box that we have as a bottom banner? i'm thinking of something that could have lots of potential parameters, e.g. a bit like the elements of the timeline table. Just thinking out aloud... Again, i probably won't volunteer to create the template. Boud ( talk) 22:17, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
I just wanted to comment that I found the infobox map very informative c.f. the older map that just mentioned which countries spoke Arabic in the majority. Good job on the person bold enough to upload it here. Calaka ( talk) 04:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Not technically Arab world I guess and perhaps a different situation, but major protests there too now: [2], [3]. Jmj713 ( talk) 06:25, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Not sure is a Self-Immolation table is needed. For the time being, it would seem proper only to list those who have unfortunately sucumbed to their burns. Chesdovi ( talk) 17:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Maybe we should have a tble with the nomber of self-imolationa by country, but without the names of every individual. Just a simple: „Tunisia - 3 selfimolations - 2 fatal” - ArnoldPlaton ( talk) 17:51, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
Could someone synthesize a general "Origins" section that would crystallize this wave of protests into something manageable? Jmj713 ( talk) 17:45, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
The current sort-table is unneeded and lacking. A more comprehensive timeline is needed, as shown below. Chesdovi ( talk) 17:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
December 17, 2010
December 22, 2010
December 24, 2010
December 27, 2010
December 28, 2010
December 30, 2010
At the moment, the country links in the timeline table go to article entries. My feeling is that they would better go to subsection links within this article (and/or maybe to the main articles for 2011 protests in that country if the article exists). Otherwise, someone looks at the table and thinks, hey, i want to know more about the protests in country X, s/he clicks and ends up on a general article about the country, without getting more info about the protests. Probably there's no point linking directly to the sub-articles - this is slower for downloading than just an internal subsection link. My feeling here goes for internal subsection links. If the country does not have its own subsection, then it should not be in the table anyway, which should only summarise what is in the content below. Boud ( talk) 23:08, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Why is Tchad in the infobox map? -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 23:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
would just liek to point out the government of the West Bank has declared that it will hold elections "as soon as possible." [4] There has been no elections there since 2006. It seems to be their way of trying to keep protests from happening.-- Found5dollar ( talk) 14:55, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
don't know if this boy was an Arab immigrant could someone check: http://www.france24.com/en/20110118-french-teen-sets-himself-fire-marseille-school-self-immolation -- 93.137.20.144 ( talk) 15:26, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Mauritania, Morocco, Syria: they had self-immolations ONLY. It should be reflected on the map-- 93.137.20.144 ( talk) 18:24, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I recommend putting the names notable into prose and deleting the rest per WP:notability (people). - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 19:06, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I just had a few suggestions/comments that I hope people would consider implementing or discussing further:
All thoughts and comments welcome. Cheers! Calaka ( talk) 06:22, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Put the old map back:
Someone replaced
File:2010-2011 Arab world protests.PNG with
File:2010-2011 Arab world protests.svg, while the latter is clearly erroneous because it shows Chad, Eritrea, Djibouti and Somalia as dark grey: "other Arab countries". Clearly, those 4 countries are not Arab countries: their population isn't Arab-majority and neither is Arab their majority language. For reference, see
File:Arab world.png and the Wikipedia articles about the respective countries.
I have thus put the old map back in the article in expectation of someone correcting the SVG version. -
TaalVerbeteraar (
talk)
08:48, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I don't think the new map is much better. At the least, it needs to be improved to include the other African countries to give context. As it is, it's just a bunch of multicolored shapes. Jmj713 ( talk) 18:03, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I once again reverted the insertion of
File:2010-2011 Arab world protests.svg, as it still includes Eritrea, Djibouti, Somalia and Chad as "other Arab countries", which they clearly are not. Please only reinsert the SVG after the colouring has been corrected. -
TaalVerbeteraar (
talk)
21:02, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Some additional info, as someone here above asserted that these countries in fact are Arab countries:
Clearly, none of the above qualifies as 'Arab country'. - TaalVerbeteraar ( talk) 21:17, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
The map we have now is no good. There's no context. It needs the outlying countries for the users to be able to tell what they're looking at. Maybe even have labels. Not everyone's geography is great. Jmj713 ( talk) 00:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
I can fix the country outlines (it was lifted directly off a bad SVG conversion of the PNG map we used to have) and add the outlying countries in one edit, but I would like to reach a consensus on including the bordering countries or not. (I would like to do them both in one edit). I personally feel that only the countries involved need to be on the map, since it is purely a regional issue. (Many European maps do not include the northern tips of Africa and there are many American maps without Canada and Mexico in use here, and a map of Asia without the parts of Europe, Africa, or Australia that clearly could have fit). -- haha169 ( talk) 01:11, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Can we please revert to this map? It's much clearer to understand. Jmj713 ( talk) 17:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
I modified the map in the infobox to a SVG one to be easier to modify with a better resolution in addition to the addition of a legend. Add it if there is a consent. Essam Sharaf 12:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Essam Sharaf ( talk • contribs)
The last paragraph reads: "The protests against numerous Arab leaders have drawn large attention and concern from across the world, because of an alliance which exists between them and the West, to which they have been important allies in the War on Terror." I believe this either needs to be removed or rewritten with more detail, because that's certainly not the only or even the biggest reason these protests are drawing attention of the entire world, not just the West. Jmj713 ( talk) 17:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps an origins section, like I described above, could be written incorporating information regarding the first Arab revolt in the 1910s. Info. Jmj713 ( talk) 17:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Can we get IP edit protection for this article? One IP is vandalizing pertinent cited information. Jmj713 ( talk) 18:59, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Regarding this edit, why isn't that a reliable source? This is the second time information about Morocco was removed. I feel it's better to talk about outstanding issues, rather than remove things outright. Jmj713 ( talk) 21:44, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I understand there are various problems / debates over the map, but can we please leave at least one version of it up until these are resolved? Cjs2111 ( talk) 22:10, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
http://somalilandpress.com/people-in-djibouti-protest-againts-president-gelleh-19925
There have been minor protests in Djibouti as well. Perhaps some info could be added about that, and Djibouti could be added to the map. Thanks. Vis-a-visconti ( talk) 00:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
If Djibouti is part of the "Arab World" Turkey, which actually borders Syria and Iraq, most certainly is. There have been escalating protests, which have been violently put down, and nobody seems to be noticing. Ericl ( talk) 15:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
There isn't a Turkish revolt. YET. There isn't one in Djibuti, Jordan or Libya either. The ripple effect of Tunisia's revolution is echoing throughout the MUSLIM world not the Arab World. I know that they're the same thing, pretty much, which is why I think Turkey belongs. The issues in Turkey are different from the issues in Egypt which are different from the issues in Lebanon etc. There's an election in June, massive demonstrations in Occupied Cyprus, arguments over mass graves and who's responsible, and all sorts of other stuff. Language isn't the only criterion here. Ericl ( talk) 17:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
Djibouti is a member of the Arab League, Turkey is not. -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 19:06, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
These sources refer to it as "The Arab Revolution" [6] [7] [8] -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 21:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
According to Supreme Deliciousness, the articles International reactions to the 2011 Egyptian protests and Domestic responses to the 2011 Egyptian protests should not be on the template, as there are in this version. I disagree, as those pages are directly related to the protests in Egypt, considering they were split from the main article, and should be on the template about the Arab world protests. Silver seren C 22:53, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
So far no "Day of rage" has taken place in Syria, It looks like an editor jumped the gun here and I recommend the content be moved back into this article until something noteworthy or notable enough for a stand alone article occurs. As I satated in the edit summary the only thinhg keeping this article semi-alive is an event that is supposed to happen which isnt a good reason to have it kept. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 04:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
what is this sourced on? right now it seems purely OR as for all ases (libya excepteD) there is no conclusion even given. also one can say tunisia has ended at the moment anyways. Lihaas ( talk) 16:32, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
The Tunisian Revolution article has noted that it may have been a contributing factor in Albania's protests earlier this year. Now protests have erupted in Belgrade, Serbia beyond the Arab World. Is it possible that the Balkans could also face political upheaval as these unprecedented protests continue to grow? My questions are. Is the name of this article still appropriate considering that the revolutionary shock wave from Tunisia and Egypt is now spreading into Europe? -- Kuzwa ( talk) 23:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
To say that Iraq or Somalia were without incident is theoretically correct, but is just...silly and misleading-- 78.3.221.196 ( talk) 12:30, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Any information as to what occured in Somalia? I think that any shaded countries on the map should require a description as to what occured, if not then i suggest it should be deleted from the map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericandude ( talk • contribs) 02:32, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
The statement "The government was reshuffled" in the infobox referring to the map reads very awkwardly. Shouldn't it be more something like "Change of government" or "New government installed"?-- Found5dollar ( talk) 05:11, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Can we please do something about the balooning overview table? It's supposed to be an overview, not an all-encompassing table. Does the Outcome column really need so much detail? Jmj713 ( talk) 20:35, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
The article should mention the 2009, 2010, and 2011 Jeddah floods -- 94.202.111.162 ( talk) 03:30, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
The overview section shows 4 deaths for Saudi Arabia, although the actual Saudi Arabia section claims 12 deaths. Which is up-to-date? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.68.184 ( talk) 16:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm placing this section here to deal with all matters regarding neutral-point-of-view and use of language in the article, hopefully keeping it all in one location. I'd like to start off with this bit: "The 2010–2011 Arab world protests[1] are an unprecedented[2] series of major uprisings...etc." While these events have been a surprise to many, the word 'unprecented' in an encyclopedic setting seems inappropriate and possibly biased. I would propose removing the word and move the reference into the titular phrase like so: "The 2010–2011 Arab world protests[1][2] are a series of major uprisings...etc." DerekMBarnes ( talk) 07:09, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
There have been protests in Bahrain, yet Bahrain in not on the map. Vis-a-visconti ( talk) 02:58, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
The country is at crisis, the biggest protests attracting thousands at the village of Malkiya. These are the biggest protests since the 1990s uprising, I think that its time to change it to Major Protests, btw 14 were injured. Calicoosat ( talk) 17:19, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I agree bahrain is now under major protest: http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2011/feb/17/middle-east-protests-live-updates?CMP=twt_gu http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/201121714223324820.html
Hello. I am an outsider and will not edit this article. I think that the information from this article I just read will be very useful about the historical context. Revolution: Is 1848 Repeating Itself in the Arab World? -- 09:52, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I think emphasis should be put on the fact that most countries are not active because opposition are effectively repressed or control by governments.
2. Iran may maybe be add to the list, since the opposition try to set up manifestations agains dictatorship, but is de facto forbidden to do so, the government allowing only one manifestation of support, the Iranian government backed and pro-government one. See : Thomas Erdbrink (2011/02/11),
Iranian opposition leader Mehdi Karroubi placed under house arrest, WashingtonPost.com {{
citation}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
Yug
(talk)
19:06, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
There is no doubt that Comoros, Somalia and Djibouti are members of the Arab League, and Eritrea is an observer but that mere fact does not make those countries part of the Arab World. Those countries have Arabs, but only as minorities, same thing with Chad and Israel to that matter, yet they are not on the map. In a historical and most importantly cultural aspect, the Arab World stops with Sudan and the horn of Africa is not included. Just take a look at a reality TV show where people call to cast their votes, and you'll notice that not one time those countries are included, and that is due to the cultural and linguistic differences. So, as an Arab, I doubt very much that these countries would be in any wave the might sweep the Arab World, and I see no point to including them in the map just because they are members or observers in the Arab League. 69.31.51.205 ( talk) 10:59, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
In the edit [9] someone replaced subsubsections in the Libya section by bold. The reader sees no difference except in the table of contents (TOC). i agree that it's reasonable not to have this detailed substructure in the long enough as it is table of contents, so i've added {{TOC limit|limit=3}} at the top of the article. i've reverted the bold to subsubsections, because these makes sense structurally - e.g. for any sort of automatic analysis, edit buttons - and in case the events in those countries turn out to be notable enough (or long enough) to require WP:SPLITting. See Wikipedia:Table_of_contents#Limiting_the_depth_of_the_TOC for more info about TOC depth. Boud ( talk) 19:08, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
The reason I bolded all of the subsections for the countries in this article is because some of them are doubled as you can see there are two protests sections one for their country the edit summary does not show this so it adds to confusion. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 04:13, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Do you suppose the current protests in Iraq are becoming significant enough to be identified as "major" in this image? Hundreds (if not thousands) of people took to the streets in several Iraqi cities, and it resulted in the government subsidizing electricity costs. [11] Master&Expert ( Talk) 03:42, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
the News paper haaretz says some one died of self-immolation in Mosul, also a planed "Revolution of Iraqi Rage" on the February 25 near the Green Zone. http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/iraq-man-dies-of-self-immolation-to-protest-rising-unemployment-1.343162 should this be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MAXWELL217 ( talk • contribs) 19:16, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
The cabinet was just dissolved. [12]
Map should be amended.
-- Found5dollar ( talk) 15:23, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
300k or more on the streets of Tehran. It looks like there might be a siege like Terir Square. Ericl ( talk) 20:54, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I think the recent Lebanese protests need to be included somewhere on this page, if only as context to explain perceptions of wider regional instability, say on the part of Israel, for example. The historical record would be lacking without it. Cjs2111 ( talk) 13:49, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Our article made it to the Main page of Wikipedia. Good work! Jmj713 ( talk) 18:24, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I think it's time to recognize Bahrain's protests as significant enough for a separate article, and to be codified orange on the political map (representing major protests). I also think the West Bank should be codified red because the government is being reshuffled. I would do it myself, but I'm not sure what program is used to edit the image. Master&Expert ( Talk) 01:26, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=235833
Vis-a-visconti ( talk) 09:20, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I also think it would be nice to see Bahrain somehow magnified on the map. Right now, it's practically invisible. Cjs2111 ( talk) 14:40, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
These protests started in Iran. Iran, as many have pointed out, is not even Arab. So we need a new title for the page. I've suggested:
... or any combination therein--basically anything which can open this up to Iran but also potentially Cuba or who knows, maybe Zimbabwe will get in on it. Thoughts? Ocaasi ( talk) 03:01, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes I also agree with "2010-2011 pro-democracy protests". Xashaiar ( talk) 19:04, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I didn't see this discussion until after I moved the article, anyway "Western Asia" is better then "Middle East" as "Middle East" is euro centric. Fell free to move it back if you disagree. -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 19:58, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
The problema is that Al Jazeera broadcast from Qatar, a non free country. It (or a similar channel) would broadcast from Tunisia or Egypt. -- 147.84.132.44 ( talk) 14:29, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Which is the constitutional model ?. Mali is a democratic country, speak French (i.e. as Tunisia) and it is in the north part of Africa. -- 147.84.132.44 ( talk) 14:30, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
"The 2010–2011 Arab world protests[1] are an unprecedented[2] series of major uprisings, demonstrations and protests in the Arab countries ", I would change to "The 2010–2011 Arab world protests[1] are an unprecedented[2] series of major uprisings, demonstrations and protests in the Arab League countries" or "countries that belong to the Arab League" . -- 147.84.132.44 ( talk) 14:34, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Since the protest have now moved to Iran, and the article is now renamed "2010-2011 North Africa and Western Asia Protest", a new map should be made which shows Iran. 128.227.41.144 ( talk) 20:06, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Could you make one of these pretty maps that change with time so that we could see the development of events acording to time? It would be cool if we could see a map in which we would see tunisia with minor protests then the goverment change and all the other protests. Thanks Federico C
The self-immolations table is well-done and important. I'm not sure it belongs in its current place in the article. Also, should we have a deaths/injuries/arrests table as well? Ocaasi ( talk) 20:24, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Per talk I renamed it. Advise that if another government falls a separate split be made called 2010-2011 Pro-democracy revolutions. Each time a nation "graduates" from protest to overthrowing the government, slide it over and leave lighter info on the parent. CHEERS. Merrill Stubing ( talk) 20:32, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
It can be fine tuned but it's flat dumb to call it out by Arab, African, Asian, Middle East, or anything specific. Hell, we got Bolivia now. In a week or two we may be calling it 2010-2011 Global democracy protests ! Merrill Stubing ( talk) 20:56, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
This refers to more than just teh Arab WOrld though, as now IRan is involved. - Kylelovesyou ( talk) 20:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#2010-2011_Pro-democracy_protests_.28edit.7Ctalk.7Chistory.7Clinks.7Cwatch.7Clogs.29 Merrill Stubing ( talk) 20:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#HELP_MOVE_WAR Merrill Stubing ( talk) 21:02, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
If we call it North African/Middle East we may as well call it Australian/New Zealand for accuracy. It's spreading all over--the title HAS to reflect that. That's my sole and only bone to pick. Nothing more. Merrill Stubing ( talk) 21:12, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
NO!!!!! The dynamic and circumstances of the protest in the Middle East and North Africa are not the same of the protest in other parts of the world. Why can't you understand that?! Loro-rojo ( talk) 21:18, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I strongly agree with the above post - 206.126.56.131 ( talk) 22:00, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Because of the dynamism of the current situation in the Middle East and given the fact that there is 90% probabilities it will escalate I propose for the article
2010-2011 Pro-democracy protests to be reorganized in the following way:
--Name of country--
I also think there should be a major timeline of the most important protests in this main article. Thanks -- Camilo Sanchez ( talk) 21:15, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
{{
Requested move}}
.Note: The previous title was 2010–2011 Arab world protests. Cs32en Talk to me 00:33, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Discussion on the determination of the previous title, resulting in
2010–2011 Arab world protests
|
---|
Previous title was "2010–2011
|
I think that 607 is to precise. How did it count? And how accurate is it? It can be that people that are arrested are killed. 16:16, 12 February 2011 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.81.169.202 ( talk)
600+ definitely beats 607, but how did we get any of those numbers if the (probably inaccurate) Arab World overview table says the total is 535? We need a unified death count. 76.126.68.184 ( talk) 16:56, 13 February 2011 (UTC) On Wikipedias page on Bahrains deaths, there are 3, and here there are 2. Needs to be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.139.227.111 ( talk) 17:35, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
italy has veen reverted pending discussion. the revolt over there doesnt seem the least bit related (or have any parallels veen made). we cant add ALL protests that happen concurrently. Lihaas ( talk) 19:10, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
How is it defined in the article? There is more than one view on where the middle east lies. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 20:27, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi ,please stop moving the article name its a bit disruptive. Find a name that there is consensus for here and then more it - please return to discussion and leave the page wherever it is. Off2riorob ( talk) 21:16, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
This name "pro democracy protest" is wrong. I believe the protests are taking place in some places for specific reasons. Revert to Arab world protests as a more general and appropriate one -- Camilo Sanchez ( talk) 21:20, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
The Council on Foreign Relations, an authoritative organization, calls this phenomenon Arab World Protests. Jmj713 ( talk) 21:51, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Additionally, and I'm not sure if this has any bearing, as far as I can understand them, the non-English language versions of this article all seem to use the Arab world name. Jmj713 ( talk) 22:28, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Move the article back to its former name, "2010–2011 Arab world protests". Since the move, this article has become an incoherent mess. We should just focus on the Arab World, where the protests are clearly linked to each other because the countries in the region share many of the same problems. These regional protests have not been proven to be the beginning of a Trotskyist-like worldwide revolution, so we should not jump to that conclusion in the title. It is really far-fetched to link the likes of Serbia and Albania to these protests. -- Tocino 22:39, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Agree with User Tocino. Unless this movement spins totally out of control and starts toppling governments in Sub-Saharan Africa or Latin America, I would say it is good to have this remain at the original name - "Arab World Protests". The only other alternatives that deals with the subject accurately is probably "Muslim World" or "Greater Middle East", but those names don't seen to be gaining a lot of traction due to some (what I believe to be unsubstantiated) accusations of "Eurocentrism". I still hold that Iran alone does not suddenly change the nature of the protests to something global. Colipon+( Talk) 22:53, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Done you are welcome --
Camilo Sanchez (
talk)
22:54, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
This is really non-controversial. Go to Google News, and search for:
Restricted to "Past month", the first search yields 22,600 results, while the second only 12,400. So I'd say the consensus in the worldwide English-language media (ie, Reliable Sources) is for the article title we had at the beginning. Jmj713 ( talk) 23:21, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
This situation is absurd. The unilateral action by one editor appears to be rewarded, based on the logic that there would be no consensus for moving the article to some other place. Cs32en Talk to me 23:36, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
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help page).![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
There were also minor protests in Libya. It should be added to the article. http://wlcentral.org/node/1102 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.218.28 ( talk) 06:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
one can add the pan-arab list of self-immolations to this one, then it can also be cut off from the bouazizi article.( Lihaas ( talk) 09:37, 29 January 2011 (UTC)).
[1] "day of ragE" albeit diffeerent reasons but was wondering if it could/should be added herE?( Lihaas ( talk) 14:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)).
"On social media sites such as Facebook and Twitter, Syrians call for a "Day of Anger" on February 5th."
Would somebody mind providing a citation for this claim? I've searched for one, but couldn't find anything. Master&Expert ( Talk) 06:25, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
IMHO the Timeline table is a nice idea, but it needs some thinking through. i think the "date ended" column is not a good idea in the Timeline section. Even "date started" is risking POV, lack of RS. On the Algerian protests talk page, there's a comment pointing out that the protests have been going on since 2002. So what is really meant by "date started" is something like "date when protests started growing exponentially and/or were perceived by Western mainstream media to become significant". But what can we replace it with?
IMHO replacing "ending date" is easier. How about replacing this by "critical dates" or "important dates"? Maybe we could even replace both starting and ending dates by allowing maybe a max of 3 columns for critical dates? By comparing various RS's, in some cases critical dates will be obvious, and in other cases, at least it should be easier to come to consensus on the talk page regarding "which date(s) was (were) more critical given the sources we have" rather than "on which date did this start/end". As more sources come in and events happen and third party analysts give their opinions on which dates were more important, the quality of the table will improve.
Someone good with tables would have to implement this. Or does someone have a better suggestion? An example could be for the Tunisian case - i'm not sure which "starting" date would count as critical, but clearly the two days when Ben Ali left and Mebazaa became acting president should count as one critical pair-of-days, and maybe the day that the new cabinet was purged of all ex-RCD people except for Ghannouchi himself would count as another critical day, though certainly not an "end date" - parliamentary and presidential elections would likely be interpreted as some sort of an end date of the change of power, but i would expect that historians would consider that fundamental social changes would take place over several years.
Are there any objections to replacing both the starting and ending date columns by a "critical dates" column (or 2-3 columns, or allowing a substructure)? Boud ( talk) 22:17, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
On the map, Eritrea is listed as an arab country, it is not an arab country. It refused to join the Arab league, and does not identify itself at one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.115.197.40 ( talk) 02:15, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Any thoughts on having an infobox template that goes near the top of the individual country protest pages, not just the sort of box that we have as a bottom banner? i'm thinking of something that could have lots of potential parameters, e.g. a bit like the elements of the timeline table. Just thinking out aloud... Again, i probably won't volunteer to create the template. Boud ( talk) 22:17, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
I just wanted to comment that I found the infobox map very informative c.f. the older map that just mentioned which countries spoke Arabic in the majority. Good job on the person bold enough to upload it here. Calaka ( talk) 04:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Not technically Arab world I guess and perhaps a different situation, but major protests there too now: [2], [3]. Jmj713 ( talk) 06:25, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Not sure is a Self-Immolation table is needed. For the time being, it would seem proper only to list those who have unfortunately sucumbed to their burns. Chesdovi ( talk) 17:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Maybe we should have a tble with the nomber of self-imolationa by country, but without the names of every individual. Just a simple: „Tunisia - 3 selfimolations - 2 fatal” - ArnoldPlaton ( talk) 17:51, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
Could someone synthesize a general "Origins" section that would crystallize this wave of protests into something manageable? Jmj713 ( talk) 17:45, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
The current sort-table is unneeded and lacking. A more comprehensive timeline is needed, as shown below. Chesdovi ( talk) 17:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
December 17, 2010
December 22, 2010
December 24, 2010
December 27, 2010
December 28, 2010
December 30, 2010
At the moment, the country links in the timeline table go to article entries. My feeling is that they would better go to subsection links within this article (and/or maybe to the main articles for 2011 protests in that country if the article exists). Otherwise, someone looks at the table and thinks, hey, i want to know more about the protests in country X, s/he clicks and ends up on a general article about the country, without getting more info about the protests. Probably there's no point linking directly to the sub-articles - this is slower for downloading than just an internal subsection link. My feeling here goes for internal subsection links. If the country does not have its own subsection, then it should not be in the table anyway, which should only summarise what is in the content below. Boud ( talk) 23:08, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
Why is Tchad in the infobox map? -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 23:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
would just liek to point out the government of the West Bank has declared that it will hold elections "as soon as possible." [4] There has been no elections there since 2006. It seems to be their way of trying to keep protests from happening.-- Found5dollar ( talk) 14:55, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
don't know if this boy was an Arab immigrant could someone check: http://www.france24.com/en/20110118-french-teen-sets-himself-fire-marseille-school-self-immolation -- 93.137.20.144 ( talk) 15:26, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Mauritania, Morocco, Syria: they had self-immolations ONLY. It should be reflected on the map-- 93.137.20.144 ( talk) 18:24, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I recommend putting the names notable into prose and deleting the rest per WP:notability (people). - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 19:06, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
I just had a few suggestions/comments that I hope people would consider implementing or discussing further:
All thoughts and comments welcome. Cheers! Calaka ( talk) 06:22, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Put the old map back:
Someone replaced
File:2010-2011 Arab world protests.PNG with
File:2010-2011 Arab world protests.svg, while the latter is clearly erroneous because it shows Chad, Eritrea, Djibouti and Somalia as dark grey: "other Arab countries". Clearly, those 4 countries are not Arab countries: their population isn't Arab-majority and neither is Arab their majority language. For reference, see
File:Arab world.png and the Wikipedia articles about the respective countries.
I have thus put the old map back in the article in expectation of someone correcting the SVG version. -
TaalVerbeteraar (
talk)
08:48, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I don't think the new map is much better. At the least, it needs to be improved to include the other African countries to give context. As it is, it's just a bunch of multicolored shapes. Jmj713 ( talk) 18:03, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I once again reverted the insertion of
File:2010-2011 Arab world protests.svg, as it still includes Eritrea, Djibouti, Somalia and Chad as "other Arab countries", which they clearly are not. Please only reinsert the SVG after the colouring has been corrected. -
TaalVerbeteraar (
talk)
21:02, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Some additional info, as someone here above asserted that these countries in fact are Arab countries:
Clearly, none of the above qualifies as 'Arab country'. - TaalVerbeteraar ( talk) 21:17, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
The map we have now is no good. There's no context. It needs the outlying countries for the users to be able to tell what they're looking at. Maybe even have labels. Not everyone's geography is great. Jmj713 ( talk) 00:01, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
I can fix the country outlines (it was lifted directly off a bad SVG conversion of the PNG map we used to have) and add the outlying countries in one edit, but I would like to reach a consensus on including the bordering countries or not. (I would like to do them both in one edit). I personally feel that only the countries involved need to be on the map, since it is purely a regional issue. (Many European maps do not include the northern tips of Africa and there are many American maps without Canada and Mexico in use here, and a map of Asia without the parts of Europe, Africa, or Australia that clearly could have fit). -- haha169 ( talk) 01:11, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Can we please revert to this map? It's much clearer to understand. Jmj713 ( talk) 17:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
I modified the map in the infobox to a SVG one to be easier to modify with a better resolution in addition to the addition of a legend. Add it if there is a consent. Essam Sharaf 12:35, 2 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Essam Sharaf ( talk • contribs)
The last paragraph reads: "The protests against numerous Arab leaders have drawn large attention and concern from across the world, because of an alliance which exists between them and the West, to which they have been important allies in the War on Terror." I believe this either needs to be removed or rewritten with more detail, because that's certainly not the only or even the biggest reason these protests are drawing attention of the entire world, not just the West. Jmj713 ( talk) 17:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps an origins section, like I described above, could be written incorporating information regarding the first Arab revolt in the 1910s. Info. Jmj713 ( talk) 17:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Can we get IP edit protection for this article? One IP is vandalizing pertinent cited information. Jmj713 ( talk) 18:59, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Regarding this edit, why isn't that a reliable source? This is the second time information about Morocco was removed. I feel it's better to talk about outstanding issues, rather than remove things outright. Jmj713 ( talk) 21:44, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I understand there are various problems / debates over the map, but can we please leave at least one version of it up until these are resolved? Cjs2111 ( talk) 22:10, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
http://somalilandpress.com/people-in-djibouti-protest-againts-president-gelleh-19925
There have been minor protests in Djibouti as well. Perhaps some info could be added about that, and Djibouti could be added to the map. Thanks. Vis-a-visconti ( talk) 00:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
If Djibouti is part of the "Arab World" Turkey, which actually borders Syria and Iraq, most certainly is. There have been escalating protests, which have been violently put down, and nobody seems to be noticing. Ericl ( talk) 15:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
There isn't a Turkish revolt. YET. There isn't one in Djibuti, Jordan or Libya either. The ripple effect of Tunisia's revolution is echoing throughout the MUSLIM world not the Arab World. I know that they're the same thing, pretty much, which is why I think Turkey belongs. The issues in Turkey are different from the issues in Egypt which are different from the issues in Lebanon etc. There's an election in June, massive demonstrations in Occupied Cyprus, arguments over mass graves and who's responsible, and all sorts of other stuff. Language isn't the only criterion here. Ericl ( talk) 17:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
Djibouti is a member of the Arab League, Turkey is not. -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 19:06, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
These sources refer to it as "The Arab Revolution" [6] [7] [8] -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 21:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
According to Supreme Deliciousness, the articles International reactions to the 2011 Egyptian protests and Domestic responses to the 2011 Egyptian protests should not be on the template, as there are in this version. I disagree, as those pages are directly related to the protests in Egypt, considering they were split from the main article, and should be on the template about the Arab world protests. Silver seren C 22:53, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
So far no "Day of rage" has taken place in Syria, It looks like an editor jumped the gun here and I recommend the content be moved back into this article until something noteworthy or notable enough for a stand alone article occurs. As I satated in the edit summary the only thinhg keeping this article semi-alive is an event that is supposed to happen which isnt a good reason to have it kept. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 04:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
what is this sourced on? right now it seems purely OR as for all ases (libya excepteD) there is no conclusion even given. also one can say tunisia has ended at the moment anyways. Lihaas ( talk) 16:32, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
The Tunisian Revolution article has noted that it may have been a contributing factor in Albania's protests earlier this year. Now protests have erupted in Belgrade, Serbia beyond the Arab World. Is it possible that the Balkans could also face political upheaval as these unprecedented protests continue to grow? My questions are. Is the name of this article still appropriate considering that the revolutionary shock wave from Tunisia and Egypt is now spreading into Europe? -- Kuzwa ( talk) 23:01, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
To say that Iraq or Somalia were without incident is theoretically correct, but is just...silly and misleading-- 78.3.221.196 ( talk) 12:30, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
Any information as to what occured in Somalia? I think that any shaded countries on the map should require a description as to what occured, if not then i suggest it should be deleted from the map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericandude ( talk • contribs) 02:32, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
The statement "The government was reshuffled" in the infobox referring to the map reads very awkwardly. Shouldn't it be more something like "Change of government" or "New government installed"?-- Found5dollar ( talk) 05:11, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Can we please do something about the balooning overview table? It's supposed to be an overview, not an all-encompassing table. Does the Outcome column really need so much detail? Jmj713 ( talk) 20:35, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
The article should mention the 2009, 2010, and 2011 Jeddah floods -- 94.202.111.162 ( talk) 03:30, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
The overview section shows 4 deaths for Saudi Arabia, although the actual Saudi Arabia section claims 12 deaths. Which is up-to-date? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.68.184 ( talk) 16:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
I'm placing this section here to deal with all matters regarding neutral-point-of-view and use of language in the article, hopefully keeping it all in one location. I'd like to start off with this bit: "The 2010–2011 Arab world protests[1] are an unprecedented[2] series of major uprisings...etc." While these events have been a surprise to many, the word 'unprecented' in an encyclopedic setting seems inappropriate and possibly biased. I would propose removing the word and move the reference into the titular phrase like so: "The 2010–2011 Arab world protests[1][2] are a series of major uprisings...etc." DerekMBarnes ( talk) 07:09, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
There have been protests in Bahrain, yet Bahrain in not on the map. Vis-a-visconti ( talk) 02:58, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
The country is at crisis, the biggest protests attracting thousands at the village of Malkiya. These are the biggest protests since the 1990s uprising, I think that its time to change it to Major Protests, btw 14 were injured. Calicoosat ( talk) 17:19, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I agree bahrain is now under major protest: http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/blog/2011/feb/17/middle-east-protests-live-updates?CMP=twt_gu http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/201121714223324820.html
Hello. I am an outsider and will not edit this article. I think that the information from this article I just read will be very useful about the historical context. Revolution: Is 1848 Repeating Itself in the Arab World? -- 09:52, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I think emphasis should be put on the fact that most countries are not active because opposition are effectively repressed or control by governments.
2. Iran may maybe be add to the list, since the opposition try to set up manifestations agains dictatorship, but is de facto forbidden to do so, the government allowing only one manifestation of support, the Iranian government backed and pro-government one. See : Thomas Erdbrink (2011/02/11),
Iranian opposition leader Mehdi Karroubi placed under house arrest, WashingtonPost.com {{
citation}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
Yug
(talk)
19:06, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
There is no doubt that Comoros, Somalia and Djibouti are members of the Arab League, and Eritrea is an observer but that mere fact does not make those countries part of the Arab World. Those countries have Arabs, but only as minorities, same thing with Chad and Israel to that matter, yet they are not on the map. In a historical and most importantly cultural aspect, the Arab World stops with Sudan and the horn of Africa is not included. Just take a look at a reality TV show where people call to cast their votes, and you'll notice that not one time those countries are included, and that is due to the cultural and linguistic differences. So, as an Arab, I doubt very much that these countries would be in any wave the might sweep the Arab World, and I see no point to including them in the map just because they are members or observers in the Arab League. 69.31.51.205 ( talk) 10:59, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
In the edit [9] someone replaced subsubsections in the Libya section by bold. The reader sees no difference except in the table of contents (TOC). i agree that it's reasonable not to have this detailed substructure in the long enough as it is table of contents, so i've added {{TOC limit|limit=3}} at the top of the article. i've reverted the bold to subsubsections, because these makes sense structurally - e.g. for any sort of automatic analysis, edit buttons - and in case the events in those countries turn out to be notable enough (or long enough) to require WP:SPLITting. See Wikipedia:Table_of_contents#Limiting_the_depth_of_the_TOC for more info about TOC depth. Boud ( talk) 19:08, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
The reason I bolded all of the subsections for the countries in this article is because some of them are doubled as you can see there are two protests sections one for their country the edit summary does not show this so it adds to confusion. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 04:13, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Do you suppose the current protests in Iraq are becoming significant enough to be identified as "major" in this image? Hundreds (if not thousands) of people took to the streets in several Iraqi cities, and it resulted in the government subsidizing electricity costs. [11] Master&Expert ( Talk) 03:42, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
the News paper haaretz says some one died of self-immolation in Mosul, also a planed "Revolution of Iraqi Rage" on the February 25 near the Green Zone. http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/iraq-man-dies-of-self-immolation-to-protest-rising-unemployment-1.343162 should this be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MAXWELL217 ( talk • contribs) 19:16, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
The cabinet was just dissolved. [12]
Map should be amended.
-- Found5dollar ( talk) 15:23, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
300k or more on the streets of Tehran. It looks like there might be a siege like Terir Square. Ericl ( talk) 20:54, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I think the recent Lebanese protests need to be included somewhere on this page, if only as context to explain perceptions of wider regional instability, say on the part of Israel, for example. The historical record would be lacking without it. Cjs2111 ( talk) 13:49, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Our article made it to the Main page of Wikipedia. Good work! Jmj713 ( talk) 18:24, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I think it's time to recognize Bahrain's protests as significant enough for a separate article, and to be codified orange on the political map (representing major protests). I also think the West Bank should be codified red because the government is being reshuffled. I would do it myself, but I'm not sure what program is used to edit the image. Master&Expert ( Talk) 01:26, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=235833
Vis-a-visconti ( talk) 09:20, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I also think it would be nice to see Bahrain somehow magnified on the map. Right now, it's practically invisible. Cjs2111 ( talk) 14:40, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
These protests started in Iran. Iran, as many have pointed out, is not even Arab. So we need a new title for the page. I've suggested:
... or any combination therein--basically anything which can open this up to Iran but also potentially Cuba or who knows, maybe Zimbabwe will get in on it. Thoughts? Ocaasi ( talk) 03:01, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes I also agree with "2010-2011 pro-democracy protests". Xashaiar ( talk) 19:04, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I didn't see this discussion until after I moved the article, anyway "Western Asia" is better then "Middle East" as "Middle East" is euro centric. Fell free to move it back if you disagree. -- Supreme Deliciousness ( talk) 19:58, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
The problema is that Al Jazeera broadcast from Qatar, a non free country. It (or a similar channel) would broadcast from Tunisia or Egypt. -- 147.84.132.44 ( talk) 14:29, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Which is the constitutional model ?. Mali is a democratic country, speak French (i.e. as Tunisia) and it is in the north part of Africa. -- 147.84.132.44 ( talk) 14:30, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
"The 2010–2011 Arab world protests[1] are an unprecedented[2] series of major uprisings, demonstrations and protests in the Arab countries ", I would change to "The 2010–2011 Arab world protests[1] are an unprecedented[2] series of major uprisings, demonstrations and protests in the Arab League countries" or "countries that belong to the Arab League" . -- 147.84.132.44 ( talk) 14:34, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Since the protest have now moved to Iran, and the article is now renamed "2010-2011 North Africa and Western Asia Protest", a new map should be made which shows Iran. 128.227.41.144 ( talk) 20:06, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Could you make one of these pretty maps that change with time so that we could see the development of events acording to time? It would be cool if we could see a map in which we would see tunisia with minor protests then the goverment change and all the other protests. Thanks Federico C
The self-immolations table is well-done and important. I'm not sure it belongs in its current place in the article. Also, should we have a deaths/injuries/arrests table as well? Ocaasi ( talk) 20:24, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Per talk I renamed it. Advise that if another government falls a separate split be made called 2010-2011 Pro-democracy revolutions. Each time a nation "graduates" from protest to overthrowing the government, slide it over and leave lighter info on the parent. CHEERS. Merrill Stubing ( talk) 20:32, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
It can be fine tuned but it's flat dumb to call it out by Arab, African, Asian, Middle East, or anything specific. Hell, we got Bolivia now. In a week or two we may be calling it 2010-2011 Global democracy protests ! Merrill Stubing ( talk) 20:56, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
This refers to more than just teh Arab WOrld though, as now IRan is involved. - Kylelovesyou ( talk) 20:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#2010-2011_Pro-democracy_protests_.28edit.7Ctalk.7Chistory.7Clinks.7Cwatch.7Clogs.29 Merrill Stubing ( talk) 20:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#HELP_MOVE_WAR Merrill Stubing ( talk) 21:02, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
If we call it North African/Middle East we may as well call it Australian/New Zealand for accuracy. It's spreading all over--the title HAS to reflect that. That's my sole and only bone to pick. Nothing more. Merrill Stubing ( talk) 21:12, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
NO!!!!! The dynamic and circumstances of the protest in the Middle East and North Africa are not the same of the protest in other parts of the world. Why can't you understand that?! Loro-rojo ( talk) 21:18, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I strongly agree with the above post - 206.126.56.131 ( talk) 22:00, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Because of the dynamism of the current situation in the Middle East and given the fact that there is 90% probabilities it will escalate I propose for the article
2010-2011 Pro-democracy protests to be reorganized in the following way:
--Name of country--
I also think there should be a major timeline of the most important protests in this main article. Thanks -- Camilo Sanchez ( talk) 21:15, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
{{
Requested move}}
.Note: The previous title was 2010–2011 Arab world protests. Cs32en Talk to me 00:33, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
Discussion on the determination of the previous title, resulting in
2010–2011 Arab world protests
|
---|
Previous title was "2010–2011
|
I think that 607 is to precise. How did it count? And how accurate is it? It can be that people that are arrested are killed. 16:16, 12 February 2011 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.81.169.202 ( talk)
600+ definitely beats 607, but how did we get any of those numbers if the (probably inaccurate) Arab World overview table says the total is 535? We need a unified death count. 76.126.68.184 ( talk) 16:56, 13 February 2011 (UTC) On Wikipedias page on Bahrains deaths, there are 3, and here there are 2. Needs to be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.139.227.111 ( talk) 17:35, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
italy has veen reverted pending discussion. the revolt over there doesnt seem the least bit related (or have any parallels veen made). we cant add ALL protests that happen concurrently. Lihaas ( talk) 19:10, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
How is it defined in the article? There is more than one view on where the middle east lies. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 20:27, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi ,please stop moving the article name its a bit disruptive. Find a name that there is consensus for here and then more it - please return to discussion and leave the page wherever it is. Off2riorob ( talk) 21:16, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
This name "pro democracy protest" is wrong. I believe the protests are taking place in some places for specific reasons. Revert to Arab world protests as a more general and appropriate one -- Camilo Sanchez ( talk) 21:20, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
The Council on Foreign Relations, an authoritative organization, calls this phenomenon Arab World Protests. Jmj713 ( talk) 21:51, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Additionally, and I'm not sure if this has any bearing, as far as I can understand them, the non-English language versions of this article all seem to use the Arab world name. Jmj713 ( talk) 22:28, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Move the article back to its former name, "2010–2011 Arab world protests". Since the move, this article has become an incoherent mess. We should just focus on the Arab World, where the protests are clearly linked to each other because the countries in the region share many of the same problems. These regional protests have not been proven to be the beginning of a Trotskyist-like worldwide revolution, so we should not jump to that conclusion in the title. It is really far-fetched to link the likes of Serbia and Albania to these protests. -- Tocino 22:39, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Agree with User Tocino. Unless this movement spins totally out of control and starts toppling governments in Sub-Saharan Africa or Latin America, I would say it is good to have this remain at the original name - "Arab World Protests". The only other alternatives that deals with the subject accurately is probably "Muslim World" or "Greater Middle East", but those names don't seen to be gaining a lot of traction due to some (what I believe to be unsubstantiated) accusations of "Eurocentrism". I still hold that Iran alone does not suddenly change the nature of the protests to something global. Colipon+( Talk) 22:53, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Done you are welcome --
Camilo Sanchez (
talk)
22:54, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
This is really non-controversial. Go to Google News, and search for:
Restricted to "Past month", the first search yields 22,600 results, while the second only 12,400. So I'd say the consensus in the worldwide English-language media (ie, Reliable Sources) is for the article title we had at the beginning. Jmj713 ( talk) 23:21, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
This situation is absurd. The unilateral action by one editor appears to be rewarded, based on the logic that there would be no consensus for moving the article to some other place. Cs32en Talk to me 23:36, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
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