This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
I know the history section is supposed to be short, but is it okay that we have a ninety-year gap in there? (From 1851 to WWII.) Also, this section has said for a long time that the city was a hub for the civil rights movement. I know it figured prominently in the student movement and the peace movement, but what significant role did Ann Arbor play in the civil rights movement? I'm not sure that this is accurate, although I could be wrong. Ropcat 01:50, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
I wanted to do some editing but at the last minute felt like I should ask here first, specifically about the idiosyncratic use of – on this page. Normally there are three distinct uses of dash-like objects:
We seem to have en-dashes kind of willy-nilly all over the place, often with a space before and after. My take on it is that many of those should be em-dashes, and that the space before and after is unusual (more common in the Commonwealth than in the US though). But I don't want to change them and run afoul of some wikipedia standard style I'm unaware of. I know this is insanely picky, but hey. rodii 18:00, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Flint Ink, alas, is no longer privately or locally owned. I made changes in the Economy section to reflect that, but one might question whether it's still worthy of inclusion. I would vote yes just because it's still a big, well-known operation locally, but YMMV. rodii 14:58, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I see someone has added Zingerman's to the Economy section. Since Zingerman's isn't a big company, and doesn't have locations outside Ann Arbor, it might might sense to include a phrase that makes a case for why this is notable (which is more a matter of quality than of company size or reach). Otherwise it seems like we just randomly stuck in a local sandwich shop. Perhaps include an appeal to authority, like noting that Zingerman's has been called "the best deli in America" by Zagat and Vanity Fair? Or does that get more into restaurant reviews than we really want here? Ropcat 18:37, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
The city has more public radio broadcasters available on its airwaves than any other U.S. listening area, including NPR affiliates from Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti, East Lansing, Detroit and Toledo, and a CBC affiliate from Windsor, Ontario.
That CBC link needs to be more specific: is it CBC Television? CBC Radio One? CBC Radio Two? Could someone who knows the city clarify which of the CBC services are or aren't available in Ann Arbor? Bearcat 01:34, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
Bhuck put this in a comment--I'm moving it here: This is a problem, as there are TWO nicknameS, but only the singular term "nickname" appears instead of the plural "nicknames"
I don't think this is a problem--just read that comma as "or". rodii 15:28, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
Is there really any of this left? The original article text was "Ann Arbor is the county seat of Washtenaw County, Michigan. It is the home of the University of Michigan." If this is the EB text I think it's worth considering it superseded.
I'm too lazy to go to the library right now, but I'm sure there's an interesting story behind Ann Arbor's reforestation campaign -- most of the city was clear-cut by 1900, I think, so the famous trees are almost all new(ish). Tlogmer 21:30, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
A bunch of new material has been added that folks should take a look at. I think it's overdetailed in places and hard to read. I edited it down a bit and reverted the section on transportation, since there was some misinformation (the AATA doesn't go to Chelsea) and some IMO needless detail mentioning every township the routes travel to). I would have edited more, but I don't want to step on someone else's work too summmarily. If other people could pass their eyes over the edits (mine and the previous one), though, that would be great. The article is already over-long and I think we have to be careful about adding avalanches of detail on minor points. I'm particularly interested in your reaction to the sections on commercial areas and climate. Too much? rodii 17:04, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
What needs to be confirmed, the existence of the song or the claim that it's the "unofficial anthem" of Ann Arbor? The song is real ( [7]) but I have nothing to say about its anthem status. It was very popular around town in the 80s and 90s. rodii 01:21, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, we've had a little back and forth over including arborupdate and annarborisoverrated in the Media section. I deleted a little passage on it, which has been partially restored, so... lets discuss. My feeling is that we have those sites listed in External Links, and there's really nothing much to say about them besides "they exist", so they don't really need any special mention in the main article. The article is pretty long and (I think) should only be added to for good reason, so I'm inclined to delete that passage (but I won't). What do others think? Here's the passage:
I have no problem with the sites, by the way--I like both. Just thinking about what's good in the article. -- rodii 02:52, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm at a loss. An anon or group of anons seems to really want arborupdate in there and isn't interested in talking about it here. I'm not going to keep reverting it. — rodii 12:40, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
This is Murph, one of the AU authors (too lazy to set up an account...) - we just got e-mail from somebody saying, "Hey, I keep trying to add a bit about AU to wikipedia and it keeps getting deleted - is one of you doing that?" I suggest he inquire on the Discussion page, then figured I'd check here to see if it was already mentioned. Sure enough. I suppose I don't care strongly one way or the other, but, afaict, "there's not much to say about them except 'they exist'" is applicable to many of the things noted in the Media section? (e.g. the Ann Arbor Paper, most of the radio stations.) Actually, looking at the External Links section, it strikes me that maybe there should be a section, either in Media or in Culture, about the Ann Arbor online tradition. There's not only the more recent AU/AAiO/ArborBlogs/ArborWiki that are mentioned, but also Grex and M-Net, which go a long way towards establishing tradition. (23 years and counting of Ann Arbor online curmudgeons...) -Murph.
I'm not sure I see the logic behind putting most of the people articles formerly under the Ann Arbor category into the new Ann Arborites category, but leaving a few of them (i.e. Andrew W.K., John Sinclair (poet), etc.) under the Ann Arbor category. Is this just an oversight, or is there a method behind this? Also, is it correct to put people under the Ann Arborites category if (as with W.K. and Sinclair) they once lived in Ann Arbor but no longer do? Thanks for any thoughts on this. Ropcat 23:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
User 68.24.1.8 has added a lot of detail to "Education" that seems unnecessary. For instance, "The public schools offer a wide curriculum including enrichment courses such as band/orchestra, theater and dance, advanced placement courses and tests to earn college credit." Or that pre-school is offered. I'm not sure that we need this level of detail, and 'particularly' details that are so generic (after all, most districts of Ann Arbor's size offer "band/orchestra," et al.). I don't think this stuff adds much to the article, especially since very little is a notable or unusual facet of the AAPS. Do people agree that we can compress or eliminate most of the recent "Education" additions? Ropcat 02:07, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
This is 68.24.1.8 (Bad Dog) I accept the editing! The preschool starting at birth and b/4 kindergarten is important to mention! AAPS are well funded and comprehensive. The band has won a prize as one of the top 7 in the nation for the 2nd year in a row! I also added the 3rd high school. I would be careful when editing. What is and is not important becomes a touchy subject. I think the ability to take advanced courses at the college level is worth mentioning. What do I know I went there 20 years ago. Just a thought based on previous criticism why do we mention the MEAP testing? Where does that come from? I bet schools with out bands take that test. Does not seem it needs to be mentioned what do you think ROPCAT or PENTAWING? I’m done adding and adjusting for now, PENTAWING good job leaving preschool in! Bad Dog
Help anyone I just joined, long and the short how do I post pictures (Excel Graphs) I connect with a cell phone so any tips much apreciated, thanks! Bad Dog I got the message,I will follow advice, do want to say connect thru cell to my laptop any help much appreciated.
I don't want to just wade in and start deleting, because I appreciate the work that went into those graphs, but they're not working for me. First, I think the statistics they're presenting are trivial enough that they don't need graphs--they're just a simple comparison of Ann Arbor against national benchmarks; the data tables themselves are included in the charts and they work just fine on their own. Second, the 3-D nature of the charts distorts their values and is mostly chartjunk. Simple bar graphs would be better; adding 3-D junk and using pie charts at all is just not effective. (For the record, I teach this stuff for a living.) Third, this article is already quite long, and I think we need to watch oout about adding things just for the sake of having facts in there. If this info could be done as a summary table, great; as it is, it just adds more complexity to an already unwieldy article.
But like I say, I appreciate the work that BadDog has done here and I don't want to be a lone gunman, so I thought I'd put this out there. — rodii 15:02, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
I really didn't see the point of the graphs, either. If they showed some statistically interesting information or trending that would be a different matter, but as it is they are just graphical representations of fact that don't provide further enlightenment than the straight statistics would. Ionesco 21:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
This is BadDog and if you guy's think the graphs are over the top then I agree. Get rid if you want. Have a good day!!
Hey BadDog. Whether or not the graphs stay, the statistics you dug up are great. So even if they get used only in prose format, it's very helpful that you added this information to the article -- especially since previous commenters had suggested a crime section of some sort. Ropcat 03:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
I like the changes with the graphs, Idid not do them but do like. Do those address thr previous concerns? Also A2 used to be famous (when I was growing up) For de-criminalizing Pot, a $5 ticket. Last I knew it was $25, kind of proggressive worth mentioning somewhere? [Baddog]
Not to harp on this, but we could have a million charts in this article -- but we have the info entirely in prose for everything else. This departure for crime seems odd, especially since this would condense down to a very easily understood paragraph. I'm glad the stats were dug up and added, but I suggest we use this information in a one-or-two paragraph section on "Crime," in prose, along with any other information on crime in Ann Arbor that seems notable. (Like perhaps the Michigan murders or other notable crime sprees that had wider cultural impact.) Ropcat 19:31, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi BadDog -- Regarding your question above about the famous "$5 pot law," see Marijuana laws in Ann Arbor, Michigan for an extended discussion. Ropcat 19:32, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
All right guy’s if you want to get rid of graphs no problem just do it! I agree with most of what I’ve heard No problem! I don’t like the way statistics are layed out anyway so what does my opinion matter anyway? Also I grew up with a $5 pot law, I do not need a further explanation “robcat” But it should be included? Yes/no? Baddog
To Ropcat:Re-read the article missed the first time I apologize (not paying attention) I will be more careful, missed it. No right now don’t think I need to expand. I don’t necessarily want to make A2 too infamous for the rest of the world. Have to say a city that doesn’t want to send you to jail for a couple of joints is refreshing. I don’t smoke it but growing up there I might of “not” of inhaled a few times in my youth. I will re-read all before commenting In case I missed or it has changed. Things like the counter culture in the early 70’s and is it important. Take care thanks for keeping me on my toes. 02/17/06 04:39 Baddog
What about a category listing Noted Residents - Past and Present? An article on Ann Arbor without mentioning the name of Bob Seger doesn't seem complete.
Also, in the category of Culture, the Gerald Ford Presidential Library is mentioned as being in Ann Arbor. I thought it was in Grand Rapids. At least it was when I visited there in 1997. Did it move in the last 9 years or is someone full of you know what here? Hokeman 16:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ann Arbor, Michigan/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Rated FA Well written article, includes many beautiful pictures and reasonable amount of sources.
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Last edited at 12:04, 24 January 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 20:10, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
I know the history section is supposed to be short, but is it okay that we have a ninety-year gap in there? (From 1851 to WWII.) Also, this section has said for a long time that the city was a hub for the civil rights movement. I know it figured prominently in the student movement and the peace movement, but what significant role did Ann Arbor play in the civil rights movement? I'm not sure that this is accurate, although I could be wrong. Ropcat 01:50, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
I wanted to do some editing but at the last minute felt like I should ask here first, specifically about the idiosyncratic use of – on this page. Normally there are three distinct uses of dash-like objects:
We seem to have en-dashes kind of willy-nilly all over the place, often with a space before and after. My take on it is that many of those should be em-dashes, and that the space before and after is unusual (more common in the Commonwealth than in the US though). But I don't want to change them and run afoul of some wikipedia standard style I'm unaware of. I know this is insanely picky, but hey. rodii 18:00, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
Flint Ink, alas, is no longer privately or locally owned. I made changes in the Economy section to reflect that, but one might question whether it's still worthy of inclusion. I would vote yes just because it's still a big, well-known operation locally, but YMMV. rodii 14:58, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I see someone has added Zingerman's to the Economy section. Since Zingerman's isn't a big company, and doesn't have locations outside Ann Arbor, it might might sense to include a phrase that makes a case for why this is notable (which is more a matter of quality than of company size or reach). Otherwise it seems like we just randomly stuck in a local sandwich shop. Perhaps include an appeal to authority, like noting that Zingerman's has been called "the best deli in America" by Zagat and Vanity Fair? Or does that get more into restaurant reviews than we really want here? Ropcat 18:37, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
The city has more public radio broadcasters available on its airwaves than any other U.S. listening area, including NPR affiliates from Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti, East Lansing, Detroit and Toledo, and a CBC affiliate from Windsor, Ontario.
That CBC link needs to be more specific: is it CBC Television? CBC Radio One? CBC Radio Two? Could someone who knows the city clarify which of the CBC services are or aren't available in Ann Arbor? Bearcat 01:34, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
Bhuck put this in a comment--I'm moving it here: This is a problem, as there are TWO nicknameS, but only the singular term "nickname" appears instead of the plural "nicknames"
I don't think this is a problem--just read that comma as "or". rodii 15:28, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
Is there really any of this left? The original article text was "Ann Arbor is the county seat of Washtenaw County, Michigan. It is the home of the University of Michigan." If this is the EB text I think it's worth considering it superseded.
I'm too lazy to go to the library right now, but I'm sure there's an interesting story behind Ann Arbor's reforestation campaign -- most of the city was clear-cut by 1900, I think, so the famous trees are almost all new(ish). Tlogmer 21:30, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
A bunch of new material has been added that folks should take a look at. I think it's overdetailed in places and hard to read. I edited it down a bit and reverted the section on transportation, since there was some misinformation (the AATA doesn't go to Chelsea) and some IMO needless detail mentioning every township the routes travel to). I would have edited more, but I don't want to step on someone else's work too summmarily. If other people could pass their eyes over the edits (mine and the previous one), though, that would be great. The article is already over-long and I think we have to be careful about adding avalanches of detail on minor points. I'm particularly interested in your reaction to the sections on commercial areas and climate. Too much? rodii 17:04, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
What needs to be confirmed, the existence of the song or the claim that it's the "unofficial anthem" of Ann Arbor? The song is real ( [7]) but I have nothing to say about its anthem status. It was very popular around town in the 80s and 90s. rodii 01:21, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, we've had a little back and forth over including arborupdate and annarborisoverrated in the Media section. I deleted a little passage on it, which has been partially restored, so... lets discuss. My feeling is that we have those sites listed in External Links, and there's really nothing much to say about them besides "they exist", so they don't really need any special mention in the main article. The article is pretty long and (I think) should only be added to for good reason, so I'm inclined to delete that passage (but I won't). What do others think? Here's the passage:
I have no problem with the sites, by the way--I like both. Just thinking about what's good in the article. -- rodii 02:52, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm at a loss. An anon or group of anons seems to really want arborupdate in there and isn't interested in talking about it here. I'm not going to keep reverting it. — rodii 12:40, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
This is Murph, one of the AU authors (too lazy to set up an account...) - we just got e-mail from somebody saying, "Hey, I keep trying to add a bit about AU to wikipedia and it keeps getting deleted - is one of you doing that?" I suggest he inquire on the Discussion page, then figured I'd check here to see if it was already mentioned. Sure enough. I suppose I don't care strongly one way or the other, but, afaict, "there's not much to say about them except 'they exist'" is applicable to many of the things noted in the Media section? (e.g. the Ann Arbor Paper, most of the radio stations.) Actually, looking at the External Links section, it strikes me that maybe there should be a section, either in Media or in Culture, about the Ann Arbor online tradition. There's not only the more recent AU/AAiO/ArborBlogs/ArborWiki that are mentioned, but also Grex and M-Net, which go a long way towards establishing tradition. (23 years and counting of Ann Arbor online curmudgeons...) -Murph.
I'm not sure I see the logic behind putting most of the people articles formerly under the Ann Arbor category into the new Ann Arborites category, but leaving a few of them (i.e. Andrew W.K., John Sinclair (poet), etc.) under the Ann Arbor category. Is this just an oversight, or is there a method behind this? Also, is it correct to put people under the Ann Arborites category if (as with W.K. and Sinclair) they once lived in Ann Arbor but no longer do? Thanks for any thoughts on this. Ropcat 23:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
User 68.24.1.8 has added a lot of detail to "Education" that seems unnecessary. For instance, "The public schools offer a wide curriculum including enrichment courses such as band/orchestra, theater and dance, advanced placement courses and tests to earn college credit." Or that pre-school is offered. I'm not sure that we need this level of detail, and 'particularly' details that are so generic (after all, most districts of Ann Arbor's size offer "band/orchestra," et al.). I don't think this stuff adds much to the article, especially since very little is a notable or unusual facet of the AAPS. Do people agree that we can compress or eliminate most of the recent "Education" additions? Ropcat 02:07, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
This is 68.24.1.8 (Bad Dog) I accept the editing! The preschool starting at birth and b/4 kindergarten is important to mention! AAPS are well funded and comprehensive. The band has won a prize as one of the top 7 in the nation for the 2nd year in a row! I also added the 3rd high school. I would be careful when editing. What is and is not important becomes a touchy subject. I think the ability to take advanced courses at the college level is worth mentioning. What do I know I went there 20 years ago. Just a thought based on previous criticism why do we mention the MEAP testing? Where does that come from? I bet schools with out bands take that test. Does not seem it needs to be mentioned what do you think ROPCAT or PENTAWING? I’m done adding and adjusting for now, PENTAWING good job leaving preschool in! Bad Dog
Help anyone I just joined, long and the short how do I post pictures (Excel Graphs) I connect with a cell phone so any tips much apreciated, thanks! Bad Dog I got the message,I will follow advice, do want to say connect thru cell to my laptop any help much appreciated.
I don't want to just wade in and start deleting, because I appreciate the work that went into those graphs, but they're not working for me. First, I think the statistics they're presenting are trivial enough that they don't need graphs--they're just a simple comparison of Ann Arbor against national benchmarks; the data tables themselves are included in the charts and they work just fine on their own. Second, the 3-D nature of the charts distorts their values and is mostly chartjunk. Simple bar graphs would be better; adding 3-D junk and using pie charts at all is just not effective. (For the record, I teach this stuff for a living.) Third, this article is already quite long, and I think we need to watch oout about adding things just for the sake of having facts in there. If this info could be done as a summary table, great; as it is, it just adds more complexity to an already unwieldy article.
But like I say, I appreciate the work that BadDog has done here and I don't want to be a lone gunman, so I thought I'd put this out there. — rodii 15:02, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
I really didn't see the point of the graphs, either. If they showed some statistically interesting information or trending that would be a different matter, but as it is they are just graphical representations of fact that don't provide further enlightenment than the straight statistics would. Ionesco 21:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
This is BadDog and if you guy's think the graphs are over the top then I agree. Get rid if you want. Have a good day!!
Hey BadDog. Whether or not the graphs stay, the statistics you dug up are great. So even if they get used only in prose format, it's very helpful that you added this information to the article -- especially since previous commenters had suggested a crime section of some sort. Ropcat 03:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
I like the changes with the graphs, Idid not do them but do like. Do those address thr previous concerns? Also A2 used to be famous (when I was growing up) For de-criminalizing Pot, a $5 ticket. Last I knew it was $25, kind of proggressive worth mentioning somewhere? [Baddog]
Not to harp on this, but we could have a million charts in this article -- but we have the info entirely in prose for everything else. This departure for crime seems odd, especially since this would condense down to a very easily understood paragraph. I'm glad the stats were dug up and added, but I suggest we use this information in a one-or-two paragraph section on "Crime," in prose, along with any other information on crime in Ann Arbor that seems notable. (Like perhaps the Michigan murders or other notable crime sprees that had wider cultural impact.) Ropcat 19:31, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi BadDog -- Regarding your question above about the famous "$5 pot law," see Marijuana laws in Ann Arbor, Michigan for an extended discussion. Ropcat 19:32, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
All right guy’s if you want to get rid of graphs no problem just do it! I agree with most of what I’ve heard No problem! I don’t like the way statistics are layed out anyway so what does my opinion matter anyway? Also I grew up with a $5 pot law, I do not need a further explanation “robcat” But it should be included? Yes/no? Baddog
To Ropcat:Re-read the article missed the first time I apologize (not paying attention) I will be more careful, missed it. No right now don’t think I need to expand. I don’t necessarily want to make A2 too infamous for the rest of the world. Have to say a city that doesn’t want to send you to jail for a couple of joints is refreshing. I don’t smoke it but growing up there I might of “not” of inhaled a few times in my youth. I will re-read all before commenting In case I missed or it has changed. Things like the counter culture in the early 70’s and is it important. Take care thanks for keeping me on my toes. 02/17/06 04:39 Baddog
What about a category listing Noted Residents - Past and Present? An article on Ann Arbor without mentioning the name of Bob Seger doesn't seem complete.
Also, in the category of Culture, the Gerald Ford Presidential Library is mentioned as being in Ann Arbor. I thought it was in Grand Rapids. At least it was when I visited there in 1997. Did it move in the last 9 years or is someone full of you know what here? Hokeman 16:49, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ann Arbor, Michigan/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Rated FA Well written article, includes many beautiful pictures and reasonable amount of sources.
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Last edited at 12:04, 24 January 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 20:10, 2 May 2016 (UTC)