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BetacommandBot ( talk) 07:54, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I have undone edits by Anthony Appleyard. He can come along to one of my lectures on Anglo-Saxon history and find out how important the Anglo-Saxon chronicales are to the history of Britain not juts the English. But I doubt that eh would. Hartram ( talk) 10:36, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
"The people of the contrasts with the other kingdoms. West Saxon their own nation as a part of the Angelcyn and of their language as Englisc, and the West Saxon royal family claimed to be of the same stock as the royal family of Bernicia in the north; but Bede may have based this distinction solely on names such as Essex (East Saxons) and East Anglia (East Angles). That Bede could envisage one English people (gentis Anglorum and Anglorum populi) at least demonstrates that the Anglo-Saxons could be thought of in such terms in the 8th century." what???21:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
- The people of the contrasts with the other kingdoms. West Saxon their own nation as a part of the Angelcyn and of their language as Englisc, and the West Saxon royal family claimed to be of the same stock as the royal family of Bernicia in the north; but Bede may have based this distinction solely on names such as Essex (East Saxons) and East Anglia (East Angles). That Bede could envisage one English people (gentis Anglorum and Anglorum populi) at least demonstrates that the Anglo-Saxons could be thought of in such terms in the 8th century. citation needed
At one point in April it read
"Other early writers do not bear out consistent distinctions, though in custom the Kingdom of Kent presents the most remarkable contrasts with the other kingdoms. West Saxon writers regularly speak of their own nation as a part of the Angelcyn and of their language as Englisc, and the West Saxon royal family claimed to be of the same stock as the royal family of Bernicia in the north; but Bede may have based this distinction solely on names such as Essex (East Saxons) and East Anglia (East Angles). That Bede could envisage one English people (gentis Anglorum and Anglorum populi) at least demonstrates that the Anglo-Saxons could be thought of in such terms in the 8th century."
The last sentence in the para above was added 2 years ago
[1].
Doug Weller (
talk)
13:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Just to note, the image used in this article under Anglo-Saxon History with the caption "2nd to 5th century A.D simplified migrations." is a German map. It would be nice to have an English version. -- Alex Kozak ( talk) 03:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
"no secular buildings above ground" Cnut's palace at Southampton is a stone building of two storeys. can we count this ?-- Streona ( talk) 12:01, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Another illusion shattered...-- Streona ( talk) 15:24, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
It is generally held that the Anglo Saxons built single storey structures of wood but not stone. However much of what they built was torn down by the Normans or incorporated in larger structures. Can we ever know? Certainly the Synod at Calne which resulted in the collapse of the floor was on two storeys.-- Streona ( talk) 14:46, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
No, I didn't, thanks.-- Streona ( talk) 07:19, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I have added some additions from the Anglo-Saxon chronicals to show that there is evidence in addition to the massive archealogical evidence on the Germanic Migration to Britain (at a time when there were massive migrations into Gaul and other parts of the Roman Empire.) But giving a redirect to the main migration debate. Which I have read. Very POV. Hartram 09:39, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
OK thanks. The reason for the strong resistance on the article from me and others is that it (the article,) has been through this cycle several times before. I have not a problem with the debate - but this article is just about the Anglo-Saxons. Laws / customes / etc etc. Neutral stuff. Hartram 14:54, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what is wrong with the ASC either. The genetic question is interesting as to whether there was a population replacement, with the Britons being ethnically cleansed or the male Anglo-Saxon colonists taking British wives (or women) and assimilating. The evidence tends to be towards the latter view rather than the former, traditional view.-- Streona ( talk) 14:28, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
I refer to the following sentence in the "Etymology" section: "The term "Anglo-Saxon" is from Latin writings going back to the time of King Alfred the Great, who seems to have frequently used the title rex Anglorum Saxonum or rex Angul-Saxonum (king of the Angles and Saxons)."
I cannot possibly read "rex Anglorum Saxonum" as meaning "king of the Angles and Saxons". "Anglorum" and "Saxonum" can be read either as 2 nouns in apposition or as a noun with an adjective in agreement; either way they both refer to the same entity, not to 2 entities to be joined by "and". It seems to me that the most natural translation is "king of the English Saxons" (as contrasted with the continental German Saxons). I have amended the translation in the article. If anyone thinks I am wrong please put an explanation here. JamesBWatson ( talk) 20:59, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Like all the wikipedia articles about the English(O.E. Englisc) this seems a complete farce. These people should be called the English not the Anglo-Saxons as he term English was invented by them (Englisc). If anything they have more of a right to be called English than the modern day English, who prefer to think of themselves as a race who descend from pre-Indo-European inhabitants of Europe. I am sick of people trying to distance themselves from the Europeans; it is racist and incorrect. 86.131.255.122 ( talk) 14:42, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Genetic research by Brian Sykes et al I believes questions many long-held views of European ancestries and implies that we are inter-related with all nations of the world. The Norman & Roman conquests seem to have been an "invasion of elites" leaving little genetic traces, the question is - is this true also of the Anglo-Saxons and also of the Celts themselves? It maybe that the majority of British ancestry derives from Vikings, who did migrate en masse and the megalithic peoples of the stone age. The fact is that modern descendants have inheritance from 2 to the power 60 ancestors from 1500 years ago (given 4 generations per century) which is more people than are in the world now, let alone then so everyone alive then is either our ancestor, or nobody's ancestor. My understanding is that Frisian is closer to Old Emglish than to Modern English but that is not quite what was being said. -- Streona ( talk) 10:19, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
I've queried the renaming of Edwy to Eadwig at Talk:Eadwig of England. Is there a consensus for this move, and the other moves made by User:Cavila? I'm no expert and I'll go with the informed consensus view, but I'm not wholly convinced so far. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 08:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
SilkTork has moved the article "Anglo-Saxons" to "Anglo-Saxon". Is there any good reason for this? SilkTork refers to "Anglo-Saxon" as "correct term", but gives no reason for regarding "Anglo-Saxons" as incorrect. The article is about the people known as "the Anglo-Saxons", and that seems to me to be the natural title. An article entitled "Anglo-Saxon" would seem to me to suggest it is about the language sometimes known as "Anglo-Saxon". Is there any reason for not restoring the original title? JamesBWatson ( talk) 20:40, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
The Anglo-Saxons emigrated as Frisian nomadic tribes originating from the tribes Anglo-heim and Sakso-heim. The ‘heim’ extension means tribe or heir. Most likely Anglo was a son of Sakso, a brother of Friso. The name of these tribes transformed during time in Englum and Saaksum. The original settlements can be found here: http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&tab=wl&q=saaksum. Anglo-Saxons had famous neighbor tribes like the Aeldo-heim (now Aalsum) and Azinga warlords (now Ezinge). Kingship and expansion by war and emigration were central elements in these ancient cultures. F.N.H. February 19th, 2010. 82.172.98.197 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:34, 19 February 2010 (UTC).
That's an interesting piece of research, which has just been added to the list of "External links" - and it is relevant - but, we can't have external links to every piece of research that's available - the list would be longer than the page! Also, incorporation within the text would require much editing, with outlines of existing research & relevant historiography, which I think should be done at the same time as adding the external link. On the other hand, I'm wondering if really it doesn't belong elsewhere anyway, per the section "Additions", above. Perhaps it would fit better at History of Anglo-Saxon England - or even Racism?! Those are only suggestions, there may be other places more suitable still. Consequently, I've decided to move the link here, for further consideration. Do comment, if you want!
Thanks. Nortonius ( talk) 21:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
The 7th century Laws of Ine of Wessex provide a lower wergild for "welshmen' (i.e. Britons) which implies a lower social status, although the term "apartheid" perhaps implies something more, such as actual separation.--
Streona (
talk)
07:16, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
from [3] ...The new theory helps explain historical, archaeological, and genetic evidence that until now had seemed contradictory, including the high number of Germanic genes found in modern-day England.
there 's a difference between the word theory and the word evidence,let me add i dont like these genetic studies about the races ,they remember me the doctor Mengele etc etc
"It is not necessarily the only possible interpretation," Tyler-Smith added-- Differencess ( talk) 11:43, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Further to this discussion, I've just removed a non-sequitur ref re "apartheid", which had always been thus, since it was added in this edit of November 2007! Nortonius ( talk) 17:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
I've been reading things- this article included- that seem to state that Anglo-Saxons are partially descended from Jutes. I was under the inpression that Anglo-Saxons were descended only from Angles and Saxons. Can anyone straighten this out? Gringo300 ( talk) 21:36, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
There is not a lot to straighten out. The traditional view (first expressed, as the article says, by Bede) is that the Germanic settlements in Britain were from 3 tribes: Angles, Saxons, and Jutes. It is questionable to what extent, in fact, the people in question really were from distinct groups; probably they were more of a broad continuum spread over a number of not very distinct tribes, but I am aware of no reason to doubt that the majority were from the 3 areas listed by Bede. JamesBWatson ( talk) 11:44, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
To the best of my knowledge, the origin of the Jutes is a disputed topic—at best it's possible to say that Bede suggests that a people called the Jutes came with the Angles and Saxons across the sea. Some people, to my understanding, have even suggested that the name "Jutes" was an interlineation (i.e. something added to the original text) in the Ecclesiastical History. Also, the fact that they come from Jutland is a hypothesis, not a proven verity. The name derivation of Jutland is not particularly close to the possible name for the Juteish people, and the Oxford English Dictionary seems to suggest that the Jutes are synonymous with the Geats of Beowulf: and they're apparently from Sweden, not Jutland at all. Even Wikipedia's Own topic page on the Jutes ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jutes) states several hypotheses. Should it not be stated in the article that the Jutes may have formed part of the Anglo-Saxons, but that their origin is unknown. Zach Beauvais ( talk) 21:53, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Inclusion of the term Anglosphere in the See Also section seems like a good idea. Somebody that can edit through the lock want to edit that in? —— 67.180.86.254 ( talk) 04:49, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
According to WP:PLURAL I think this article should be named Anglo-Saxon. I see above a discussion about just such a move a few years back that was quickly undone. Perhaps the policy on plural names has become stronger since then or maybe I am missing something. I wanted to mention this first before I propose the move in case somebody wants to set me straight. – CWenger ( ^ • @) 18:39, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi! This is a useful website for when im stuck in homework! This article actually helped me complete my History homework for tomorrow lol! THANK YOU WIKIPEDIA! (16th January 2012) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Groovestar299 ( talk • contribs) 16:56, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
I just wanted to respond to this diff: [4]. Holstein is in Jutland and Old Saxony is the result the expansion of the Saxon tribes from Jutland.. I am not sure why I was referred to these locations after my requested changes? As it stands I think my change was correct: the Angles, Saxons and Jutes all likely came from Jutland. :bloodofox: ( talk) 05:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
"The term 'Anglo-Saxon' is used to refer to the modern people of the British Isles". Is it? Or is that an example of "Wiki-speak", on a par with confusing English with British? The modern people of the British Isles include a large number of Celts, who should not be referred to as Anglo-Saxon. I suggest either inserting the word "inaccurately" or referring to "the modern people of England". Ausseagull ( talk) 08:05, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
I see that you have conformed to the stereotypical image at the top of the page that indicates that these people first and foremost are militarily inclined. I see this all over the internet, images that are combined with articles of Anglo Saxon or Germanic peoples with military symoblism at the topmost of the article. I feel that this is inappropriate and childish, and although images of this kind are good to have, they should not be at the top of the page and somehow indicating even subconsciously to the reader that these peoples were only interested in warfare and conquest. For in fact most peoples of the world in this era were militarily inclined just as a matter of survival even, and I do see articles of moslems that do not show military images, even though they forced their religion on people by the point of the sword. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.17.76.226 ( talk) 01:22, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
(moved from further up the page)
The first sentence of the article is gibberish. It looks like it has been altered so many times that any original sense has been lost. 77Mike77 ( talk) 04:19, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Yes, much better. I was wondering about the phrase "partly descended"; what was the other part? Celtic? 77Mike77 ( talk) 14:53, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
As to the very first sentence of the introduction, "The Anglo-Saxons... partly descended from the Germanic tribes...", maybe one could explain and add from whom the other part of the Anglo-Saxons descended from. Thx. 88.152.254.158 ( talk) 18:46, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Upps, soory, I just discovered that the question has already been subject to the conversation. However, the sentence still appears to be uncomplete. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.152.254.158 ( talk) 18:52, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
I would like to add another explanation for the etymology of the word England. Anglia as in East Anglia is the Anglo Saxon word for England. An English speaking person seeing Eng either as a syllable or on its own would pronounce it with a hard E but it is, however, pronounced as though spelt Ingland. This is the clue to the correct meaning of England. The Old Norse word Eng which is also a modern Danish word, and in Danish eng is pronounced "ing" and means meadow. England was named by Norse settlers who on first landing on our shores observed that it was a land of meadows - thus England in Old Norse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profoundpaul ( talk • contribs) 16:52, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
I find it odd that there is no mention of the genocide committed by the Norman French against Anglo-Saxon Britain, essentially both people were killed in very large numbers (see Harrowing of the north) and wide scale cultural genocide in that all Anglo-Saxon architecture, art, religion and iconography was deliberately destroyed by the Normans. We often hear and read about other genocides but it seems the Norman French have got off rather too lightly, as a result I think the wall of silence around such practices needs addressing in the article. 81.110.28.183 ( talk) 10:31, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
( edit conflict):::I've written more at Talk:Harrying of the North which I think has NPOV issues. Dougweller ( talk) 15:49, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
Under Language it says "North Firesland". That should be North Friesland.
Roger Whitehead
This article is far from the quality project that I am sure many people desire. The tone I feel is set in a very traditional pre-1980s view of the subject. The article and this talk page do not start to outline the synthesis from Archaeology, History and Linguistics post 2000. One of the problems surely is the perception that it is locked to some editors who haven't or cant help get this article to at least B quality or above. If I am wrong is this perception I apologise. J Beake ( talk) 12:55, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
1 History
1.1 Migration period, 1.2 Conversion period, 1.3 "Long 8th century" 1.4 Viking age 1.5 Reform and establishment 1.6 Æthelred 1.7 Conquest and tranformation
2 Life in the Anglo-Saxon period
2.1 Rule and government 2.2 Rural Life 2.3 Towns 2.4 Religion 2.5 Trade and food
3 Anglo Saxon Culture
3.1 Heritage 3.2 Status and roles 3.3 Crafts 3.4 Buildings 3.5 Life and death
4 Legacy 5 See also 6 References 7 Further reading 8 External links
I have realised that there is another article called Anglo-Saxon England. I think probably that is the place for much of the historical narrative. I do dislike that title as it assumes England was entity before the 10th century, however maybe I should trim the historical narrative I have added in this article to Early, Middle and Late. We should then concentrate on how this narrative relates to the people, society and culture. J Beake ( talk) 08:04, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
I would say that most of this section, is not for a section in this article, it has nothing to do with Anglo-Saxons. That some people misuse a term, is unfortunate, but there are links to this at the start in disambiguous links. We have articles for WASP and Anglo-Saxon model for this information. Legacy is more important, for example; language, law and geography of England today.
Catherine Hills summarised the views of many modern scholars that attitudes towards Anglo-Saxon and hence the interpretation of their culture and history has been "more continguent on contemporary political and religious theology as on any kind of evidence." [1] For example that a Glasgow football club calls itself Celtic does not link to a contemporary meaning of the Celtic people. What is important is legacy - what happened to the monastries, what happened to the language, what happened to the churches, why is Cuthbert and Augustine still important, why do some people say that Aldhem was best writer of prose until Milton - why is the Anglo-Saxon culture of Tolkein important in the 21st century. Why did Seamus Heaney translate Beowulf and it became a best seller? Aren't these issue more important than the odd misuse of the term Anglo-Saxon.
I have suggested we revise this section. J ,Beake ( talk) 08:07, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
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Typo: at the end of the 3rd paragraph in the section 'Ethnonym' I believe 'anoited' should be corrected to 'anointed'. Cheers. 203.6.146.5 ( talk) 05:02, 11 April 2014 (UTC) 203.6.146.5 ( talk) 05:02, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
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Section 'Migration (c.410...)', paragraph beginning 'Gildas recounts...':-
BTW I understood that the abbreviation AD should generally precede dates. Cheers 203.6.146.5 ( talk) 05:29, 11 April 2014 (UTC) 203.6.146.5 ( talk) 05:29, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
The first I note FIRST German king was Charlemange of the 8th century!. So old English was latin as ins Bede's writtings, to King William of 1066 the dooms day book just to name a few examples. German did not exist in the 5th century it is IMPOSSIBLE!. So please if OLD English existed before the 13th century NORMANS that brought it to England. Please show some evidence. Also northen Germany near Holstein was part of Germany Magna, and they where not part of the Roman Empire, so they where not belivers of Christ. You need to do some research and stop writing dishonest lies. Atilla the Hun went up the danube and rhine and was killed in France 454AD. Avars had bases in Hunguary and Bugaria in the 8,9th century. Who ever wrote this of low intelligence. So please show the world!. Ohh sorry I believe some else wrote some thing simlar but you keep deleting his comments. Propaganda machine is at work here — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.80.98.184 ( talk) 16:00, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
All you do is tell your lies here. Engish language did not exist until the Norman's( Orginally a tribe from Scandinavia) brought it over from present day France over sometime in the late 13th century. Facts are 1. German language did not exist until 8th century!. Why see ptolemy's maps from 2nd century AD, Germania (Mostly Roman, Christians and where latin speakers and writers, and Germania Manga which includes the area's of Schleswig-Holstein ( East and northern side, Non Christians, most likey did not speak latin). Charlemange was note: First German king in mid 8th century who started the use of the German language see Monk "Abogran". So how could these Anglo Saxon mythical tribes speak OLD ENGLISH when the German language did not exist in the 5th century its IMPOSSIBLE!. Attila the hun also traveled up the Danube and then the Rhine and was killed in Gaul (France) no where near the Angles. No Huns made it that far ever, And the later Avars around the 8th and 9th century had bases in Hungary and Bulgaria. Mongols in the 13th century also never made it to Schleswig-Holstein area. Please supply some artifacts some copies of the actual documents from 1000-1500 years ago. And shame me in front of the whole world. Also the slavic tribes see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_Saxoniae. Arrived in 9th century but yes all the Germanic and Germans tribes left for Britannia in the 5th century AD. My history is not the best but I believe only two unarmed Saxon tribes arrived by ship in the city of present day Wessex around 460,470AD but Saxony is near Czech Republic?. All English old documents like the dooms day book 1066, Bede the Monk, as example are in latin, all your churches before say the 16th century where all christian and later Catholic. I could go and on but you really should know better. OLD ENGLISH. Thou shall be quite now. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=germania+magna&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=VYZ5U5ziGcnikAWAsoG4DQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=684#q=magna+germania&spell=1&tbm=isch https://www.google.com.au/#q=britannia+latin+cities+names http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_place_names_in_Britain ROMANS spoke and wrote in latin. SCHLESWIG HOLSTEIN WAS IN GERMANY MANGA they where not Christens like you!. OLD ENGLISH is mostly a latin based language — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.80.98.184 ( talk) 16:20, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
hi there is a grammar error / typo under the section "early anglo-saxon" - "The traditionally narrative of this period is one of decline and fall" - pretty sure it should read "The traditioNAL . ." and not "The traditioNALLY . ."
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On the fourth paragraph of "Conquest England: Danes and Normans (1016-1066)" it states:
"Edward became king in 1042, and would have been consider a Norman by those who lived across the English Channel."
Shouldn't that be "considered"?
Twiggy003 ( talk) 15:09, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
This was published in March 2015 in Nature by Peter Donnelly. Speaking on the BBC Inside Science program for 19 March, Adam Rutherford described it as a "truly magnificent study" using DNA analysis & statistics to map the history of British immigration from the earliest post ice age settlers until the 10th century." Worth a listen JRPG ( talk) 22:00, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
"The history of the Anglo-Saxons is the history of a cultural identity, and how this developed from divergent groups, "
Divergent groups ? Do you mean, different groups ? Isn't the history of the Anglo-Saxons a history of CONVERGENT groups, as the Saxons, Angles, Jutes, Britons, who were originally separate groups, converged to become the "old english" ? That would seem to me, to be the opposite of "divergent". Lathamibird ( talk) 00:50, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
When looking through these two articles, I really couldn't help but notice the large amount of overlap between the two topics. One might argue that this article is about the people, while the Anglo-Saxon England article is about the time period or history. However, the history sections in this article almost exactly overlap the other article in scope. Really, the only difference is that this article contains a brief summary of events after the Norman Conquest and discusses Anglo-Saxon culture. Since the Anglo-Saxons as a people are almost exclusively attached to their habitation of England, it makes sense that these articles should be one. The history sections would be merged, while the "After the Norman Conquest" section and all those below it could simply be cut and pasted into the other article. I realize the difficultly that might be involved while performing the merge, but I would be willing to help and I think it would ultimately be best to have one central overview article on the topic instead of two heavily overlapping ones. (I'll ping some of the users who would probably have the most interest in this RfC: Ealdgyth, Dudley Miles, Mike Christie) -- Biblio worm 18:48, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
"Heinrich Härke states:
It is now widely accepted that the Anglo-Saxons were not just transplanted Germanic invaders and settlers from the Continent, but the outcome of insular interactions and changes."
Does anyone else find this unclear? I *think* he's trying to say 'we don't think they just came over to Britain en masse and took the land. They interbred with the locals, many of whom took on Saxon style culture and allied with new Saxon factions'. But I can only get that far translating it from historian-ese from a background of wider reading. If anyone has access to the full text, would it be possible to use a longer quote which might be clearer? Or maybe quote a different authority? 'Insular interactions and changes' on its own seems a tad opaque and baffling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.71.104.222 ( talk) 09:27, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello, I noticed that ghmrytle reverted my edit stating that 'I gave a misleading account'. which put Anglo-Saxons back into the present tense as the people have not been succeeded by another race according to new research. In fact, I am a little confused as to why the article ever placed the race into the past tense seeing how the majority population of England are Anglo-Saxon English? Here is a pretty recent, non-contentious, reliably-sourced article [1] which lays out the facts, however, I may be wrong as this is not my field, regards. Twobells ( talk) 16:47, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
Also, in the lede is states: The Anglo-Saxon period denotes the period of British history between about 450 and 1066, after their initial Anglo-Saxon settlement of Britain, and up until the Norman conquest of England, According to the most recent research (and the 2015 Nature article) the impact of the Anglo-Saxon race has been of far greater importance than the Norman Invasion ever was and that Anglo-Saxons didn't suddenly disappear when William landed, rather the same tribal mores and creeds of the race continue to this day in almost exactly the same areas that their ancestors inhabited going so far as to state that the current population lives within the Anglo-Saxon boundaries set up 1500 years ago. So, with this in mind I think we need to revisit the lede put the race into the proper context and reduce the impact the Norman Invasion has on the article, regards. Twobells ( talk) 17:04, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
regards. Twobells ( talk) 17:04, 23 December 2015 (UTC) −
References
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"As they adopted this language and culture, the barriers began to dissolved between peoples, who had earlier lived parallel lives.[37]"
Here, the verb has to be corrected into the infinitive form: "[ ...] the barriers began to dissolve between [...]"
Having edited/corrected a great amount in Wikipedias GERMAN, SPANISH, some in FRENCH, and some other languages, it seems I lack the record within Wikipedia ENGLISH to be allowed to edit semi-protected texts. Can my record from these others be transferred in some way in order to allow me to enter semi-protected texts in Wikipedia ENGLISH ? -- MistaPPPP ( talk) 13:07, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
MistaPPPP ( talk) 13:07, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello here ! I highly appreciate the so far both given definitions of the former invaders of Great Britain, and the French way to describe the Anglosphere. But. I would like to know how english speakers refere - if they do, as I imagine that I do, using a (third meaning of ?) the expression "Anglo-Saxon" - to the importance of the Protestants (e.g. WASP) in the world ? I mean : no Protestants without Germans, so, no Anglosphere without them either. Does the expression "Anglo-Saxon" match a little with my feeling ? Thank you for your help. PRC 2rh ( talk) 09:06, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
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Change "In this period and beyond the Ango-Saxon culture is changing." to "In this period and beyond the Anglo-Saxon culture is changing." in the Conquest England section. 66.103.170.62 ( talk) 17:10, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
I notice on some other cultural/ ethnic group pages they have a similar format, with pictures of famous people of that culture, and 'areas with significant populations' (eg Romani people, Serbs) . Is it possible to do something similar for Anglo Saxons, if indeed there are any relevant studies? Hachimanchu ( talk) 17:35, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't be mentioned in the entry chapter the so-called "Angeliter Land" the area in northern Germany (today, often south of Denmark) - south of the city of Flensburg - where quite some English folks came from? Of course Angel = (German) Engel leading to the name of England? ...and the Saxons came to that danish/german area before like the Westphalians from the east.
-- Gaschroeder ( talk) 19:59, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
Roman Britain was very much part of the Roman Empire and International Trade consortium. The Germanic tribes who took over the Western Roman Empire were obviously highly organised and efficient.
What happened to Britanic contacts throughout the Mediterranean? The Anglo-Saxons utilised a very similar culture to that of the Germanic tribes that took control over the Roman Empire. They were not a backward culture. Something happened to the whole economic and information system of Europe and North Africa which had direct consequences to the wealth of Britain and Europe as a whole. Indeed, it seems the authorities had no choice but to use an extreme form of Christianity in order to maintain that form of culture in Europe.
Something new and reductive happened to European/Mediterranean Culture after 600 AD and directly caused the reduction of Anglo-European wealth and power and transformed North Africa, the Middle East and Spain - but it isn't mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.148.154.80 ( talk) 21:09, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
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hi, I have noticed that in the first line there's a mistake, it says 'are a people' instead of 'are a tribe', maybe you should turn the word people into the word tribe, BTW, this is NOT answered I'll tell you when it is thanks - DragonGamer99 ( talk) 09:22, 19 February 2017 (UTC) DragonGamer99 ( talk) 09:22, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
When the Anglo-Saxons arrived in Britain, most kept clear of Roman towns. They preferred to live in small villages. However, warrior chiefs knew that a walled city made a good fortress. Some Saxons built wooden houses inside the walls of Roman towns.
Mrs K Cassin — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karencassin ( talk • contribs) 09:28, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
I know, I was being a little flip, however, the vast majority of the English would be horrified to see their race pushed into the past tense. The English and to somewhat greater or lesser extent the 'British' are a race of Anglo-Saxon people, they hold British nationality, their sub-ethnic group is English and their root....Anglo-Saxon. So please, stop consigning us to history :-) warm regards. Twobells ( talk) 19:05, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
We shouldn't try to "prove" the existence of Anglo-Saxons here, but rely on sources to do that. If the large majority contemporary sources support Anglo-Saxons as extant, then we must move this article to the present tense. If the large majority do not, then we follow the sources and use the past tense. Any other arguments are WP:SYNTH, at best. -- A D Monroe III ( talk) 16:51, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
There is a statement ...the use of Anglo-Saxon disguises the extent to which people identified as Anglo-Scandinavian after the Viking age or the conquest of 1016, or as Anglo-Norman after the Norman conquest. Which is either a typo or lacks context:
The intro bit states that they probably spoke old English. Didn't Anglo-SAXONS speak Old SAXON? Woolters ( talk) 13:04, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 07:54, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I have undone edits by Anthony Appleyard. He can come along to one of my lectures on Anglo-Saxon history and find out how important the Anglo-Saxon chronicales are to the history of Britain not juts the English. But I doubt that eh would. Hartram ( talk) 10:36, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
"The people of the contrasts with the other kingdoms. West Saxon their own nation as a part of the Angelcyn and of their language as Englisc, and the West Saxon royal family claimed to be of the same stock as the royal family of Bernicia in the north; but Bede may have based this distinction solely on names such as Essex (East Saxons) and East Anglia (East Angles). That Bede could envisage one English people (gentis Anglorum and Anglorum populi) at least demonstrates that the Anglo-Saxons could be thought of in such terms in the 8th century." what???21:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
- The people of the contrasts with the other kingdoms. West Saxon their own nation as a part of the Angelcyn and of their language as Englisc, and the West Saxon royal family claimed to be of the same stock as the royal family of Bernicia in the north; but Bede may have based this distinction solely on names such as Essex (East Saxons) and East Anglia (East Angles). That Bede could envisage one English people (gentis Anglorum and Anglorum populi) at least demonstrates that the Anglo-Saxons could be thought of in such terms in the 8th century. citation needed
At one point in April it read
"Other early writers do not bear out consistent distinctions, though in custom the Kingdom of Kent presents the most remarkable contrasts with the other kingdoms. West Saxon writers regularly speak of their own nation as a part of the Angelcyn and of their language as Englisc, and the West Saxon royal family claimed to be of the same stock as the royal family of Bernicia in the north; but Bede may have based this distinction solely on names such as Essex (East Saxons) and East Anglia (East Angles). That Bede could envisage one English people (gentis Anglorum and Anglorum populi) at least demonstrates that the Anglo-Saxons could be thought of in such terms in the 8th century."
The last sentence in the para above was added 2 years ago
[1].
Doug Weller (
talk)
13:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Just to note, the image used in this article under Anglo-Saxon History with the caption "2nd to 5th century A.D simplified migrations." is a German map. It would be nice to have an English version. -- Alex Kozak ( talk) 03:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
"no secular buildings above ground" Cnut's palace at Southampton is a stone building of two storeys. can we count this ?-- Streona ( talk) 12:01, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Another illusion shattered...-- Streona ( talk) 15:24, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
It is generally held that the Anglo Saxons built single storey structures of wood but not stone. However much of what they built was torn down by the Normans or incorporated in larger structures. Can we ever know? Certainly the Synod at Calne which resulted in the collapse of the floor was on two storeys.-- Streona ( talk) 14:46, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
No, I didn't, thanks.-- Streona ( talk) 07:19, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I have added some additions from the Anglo-Saxon chronicals to show that there is evidence in addition to the massive archealogical evidence on the Germanic Migration to Britain (at a time when there were massive migrations into Gaul and other parts of the Roman Empire.) But giving a redirect to the main migration debate. Which I have read. Very POV. Hartram 09:39, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
OK thanks. The reason for the strong resistance on the article from me and others is that it (the article,) has been through this cycle several times before. I have not a problem with the debate - but this article is just about the Anglo-Saxons. Laws / customes / etc etc. Neutral stuff. Hartram 14:54, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what is wrong with the ASC either. The genetic question is interesting as to whether there was a population replacement, with the Britons being ethnically cleansed or the male Anglo-Saxon colonists taking British wives (or women) and assimilating. The evidence tends to be towards the latter view rather than the former, traditional view.-- Streona ( talk) 14:28, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
I refer to the following sentence in the "Etymology" section: "The term "Anglo-Saxon" is from Latin writings going back to the time of King Alfred the Great, who seems to have frequently used the title rex Anglorum Saxonum or rex Angul-Saxonum (king of the Angles and Saxons)."
I cannot possibly read "rex Anglorum Saxonum" as meaning "king of the Angles and Saxons". "Anglorum" and "Saxonum" can be read either as 2 nouns in apposition or as a noun with an adjective in agreement; either way they both refer to the same entity, not to 2 entities to be joined by "and". It seems to me that the most natural translation is "king of the English Saxons" (as contrasted with the continental German Saxons). I have amended the translation in the article. If anyone thinks I am wrong please put an explanation here. JamesBWatson ( talk) 20:59, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Like all the wikipedia articles about the English(O.E. Englisc) this seems a complete farce. These people should be called the English not the Anglo-Saxons as he term English was invented by them (Englisc). If anything they have more of a right to be called English than the modern day English, who prefer to think of themselves as a race who descend from pre-Indo-European inhabitants of Europe. I am sick of people trying to distance themselves from the Europeans; it is racist and incorrect. 86.131.255.122 ( talk) 14:42, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Genetic research by Brian Sykes et al I believes questions many long-held views of European ancestries and implies that we are inter-related with all nations of the world. The Norman & Roman conquests seem to have been an "invasion of elites" leaving little genetic traces, the question is - is this true also of the Anglo-Saxons and also of the Celts themselves? It maybe that the majority of British ancestry derives from Vikings, who did migrate en masse and the megalithic peoples of the stone age. The fact is that modern descendants have inheritance from 2 to the power 60 ancestors from 1500 years ago (given 4 generations per century) which is more people than are in the world now, let alone then so everyone alive then is either our ancestor, or nobody's ancestor. My understanding is that Frisian is closer to Old Emglish than to Modern English but that is not quite what was being said. -- Streona ( talk) 10:19, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
I've queried the renaming of Edwy to Eadwig at Talk:Eadwig of England. Is there a consensus for this move, and the other moves made by User:Cavila? I'm no expert and I'll go with the informed consensus view, but I'm not wholly convinced so far. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 08:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
SilkTork has moved the article "Anglo-Saxons" to "Anglo-Saxon". Is there any good reason for this? SilkTork refers to "Anglo-Saxon" as "correct term", but gives no reason for regarding "Anglo-Saxons" as incorrect. The article is about the people known as "the Anglo-Saxons", and that seems to me to be the natural title. An article entitled "Anglo-Saxon" would seem to me to suggest it is about the language sometimes known as "Anglo-Saxon". Is there any reason for not restoring the original title? JamesBWatson ( talk) 20:40, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
The Anglo-Saxons emigrated as Frisian nomadic tribes originating from the tribes Anglo-heim and Sakso-heim. The ‘heim’ extension means tribe or heir. Most likely Anglo was a son of Sakso, a brother of Friso. The name of these tribes transformed during time in Englum and Saaksum. The original settlements can be found here: http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&tab=wl&q=saaksum. Anglo-Saxons had famous neighbor tribes like the Aeldo-heim (now Aalsum) and Azinga warlords (now Ezinge). Kingship and expansion by war and emigration were central elements in these ancient cultures. F.N.H. February 19th, 2010. 82.172.98.197 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:34, 19 February 2010 (UTC).
That's an interesting piece of research, which has just been added to the list of "External links" - and it is relevant - but, we can't have external links to every piece of research that's available - the list would be longer than the page! Also, incorporation within the text would require much editing, with outlines of existing research & relevant historiography, which I think should be done at the same time as adding the external link. On the other hand, I'm wondering if really it doesn't belong elsewhere anyway, per the section "Additions", above. Perhaps it would fit better at History of Anglo-Saxon England - or even Racism?! Those are only suggestions, there may be other places more suitable still. Consequently, I've decided to move the link here, for further consideration. Do comment, if you want!
Thanks. Nortonius ( talk) 21:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
The 7th century Laws of Ine of Wessex provide a lower wergild for "welshmen' (i.e. Britons) which implies a lower social status, although the term "apartheid" perhaps implies something more, such as actual separation.--
Streona (
talk)
07:16, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
from [3] ...The new theory helps explain historical, archaeological, and genetic evidence that until now had seemed contradictory, including the high number of Germanic genes found in modern-day England.
there 's a difference between the word theory and the word evidence,let me add i dont like these genetic studies about the races ,they remember me the doctor Mengele etc etc
"It is not necessarily the only possible interpretation," Tyler-Smith added-- Differencess ( talk) 11:43, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Further to this discussion, I've just removed a non-sequitur ref re "apartheid", which had always been thus, since it was added in this edit of November 2007! Nortonius ( talk) 17:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
I've been reading things- this article included- that seem to state that Anglo-Saxons are partially descended from Jutes. I was under the inpression that Anglo-Saxons were descended only from Angles and Saxons. Can anyone straighten this out? Gringo300 ( talk) 21:36, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
There is not a lot to straighten out. The traditional view (first expressed, as the article says, by Bede) is that the Germanic settlements in Britain were from 3 tribes: Angles, Saxons, and Jutes. It is questionable to what extent, in fact, the people in question really were from distinct groups; probably they were more of a broad continuum spread over a number of not very distinct tribes, but I am aware of no reason to doubt that the majority were from the 3 areas listed by Bede. JamesBWatson ( talk) 11:44, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
To the best of my knowledge, the origin of the Jutes is a disputed topic—at best it's possible to say that Bede suggests that a people called the Jutes came with the Angles and Saxons across the sea. Some people, to my understanding, have even suggested that the name "Jutes" was an interlineation (i.e. something added to the original text) in the Ecclesiastical History. Also, the fact that they come from Jutland is a hypothesis, not a proven verity. The name derivation of Jutland is not particularly close to the possible name for the Juteish people, and the Oxford English Dictionary seems to suggest that the Jutes are synonymous with the Geats of Beowulf: and they're apparently from Sweden, not Jutland at all. Even Wikipedia's Own topic page on the Jutes ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jutes) states several hypotheses. Should it not be stated in the article that the Jutes may have formed part of the Anglo-Saxons, but that their origin is unknown. Zach Beauvais ( talk) 21:53, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Inclusion of the term Anglosphere in the See Also section seems like a good idea. Somebody that can edit through the lock want to edit that in? —— 67.180.86.254 ( talk) 04:49, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
According to WP:PLURAL I think this article should be named Anglo-Saxon. I see above a discussion about just such a move a few years back that was quickly undone. Perhaps the policy on plural names has become stronger since then or maybe I am missing something. I wanted to mention this first before I propose the move in case somebody wants to set me straight. – CWenger ( ^ • @) 18:39, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi! This is a useful website for when im stuck in homework! This article actually helped me complete my History homework for tomorrow lol! THANK YOU WIKIPEDIA! (16th January 2012) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Groovestar299 ( talk • contribs) 16:56, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
I just wanted to respond to this diff: [4]. Holstein is in Jutland and Old Saxony is the result the expansion of the Saxon tribes from Jutland.. I am not sure why I was referred to these locations after my requested changes? As it stands I think my change was correct: the Angles, Saxons and Jutes all likely came from Jutland. :bloodofox: ( talk) 05:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
"The term 'Anglo-Saxon' is used to refer to the modern people of the British Isles". Is it? Or is that an example of "Wiki-speak", on a par with confusing English with British? The modern people of the British Isles include a large number of Celts, who should not be referred to as Anglo-Saxon. I suggest either inserting the word "inaccurately" or referring to "the modern people of England". Ausseagull ( talk) 08:05, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
I see that you have conformed to the stereotypical image at the top of the page that indicates that these people first and foremost are militarily inclined. I see this all over the internet, images that are combined with articles of Anglo Saxon or Germanic peoples with military symoblism at the topmost of the article. I feel that this is inappropriate and childish, and although images of this kind are good to have, they should not be at the top of the page and somehow indicating even subconsciously to the reader that these peoples were only interested in warfare and conquest. For in fact most peoples of the world in this era were militarily inclined just as a matter of survival even, and I do see articles of moslems that do not show military images, even though they forced their religion on people by the point of the sword. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.17.76.226 ( talk) 01:22, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
(moved from further up the page)
The first sentence of the article is gibberish. It looks like it has been altered so many times that any original sense has been lost. 77Mike77 ( talk) 04:19, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Yes, much better. I was wondering about the phrase "partly descended"; what was the other part? Celtic? 77Mike77 ( talk) 14:53, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
As to the very first sentence of the introduction, "The Anglo-Saxons... partly descended from the Germanic tribes...", maybe one could explain and add from whom the other part of the Anglo-Saxons descended from. Thx. 88.152.254.158 ( talk) 18:46, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Upps, soory, I just discovered that the question has already been subject to the conversation. However, the sentence still appears to be uncomplete. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.152.254.158 ( talk) 18:52, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
I would like to add another explanation for the etymology of the word England. Anglia as in East Anglia is the Anglo Saxon word for England. An English speaking person seeing Eng either as a syllable or on its own would pronounce it with a hard E but it is, however, pronounced as though spelt Ingland. This is the clue to the correct meaning of England. The Old Norse word Eng which is also a modern Danish word, and in Danish eng is pronounced "ing" and means meadow. England was named by Norse settlers who on first landing on our shores observed that it was a land of meadows - thus England in Old Norse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profoundpaul ( talk • contribs) 16:52, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
I find it odd that there is no mention of the genocide committed by the Norman French against Anglo-Saxon Britain, essentially both people were killed in very large numbers (see Harrowing of the north) and wide scale cultural genocide in that all Anglo-Saxon architecture, art, religion and iconography was deliberately destroyed by the Normans. We often hear and read about other genocides but it seems the Norman French have got off rather too lightly, as a result I think the wall of silence around such practices needs addressing in the article. 81.110.28.183 ( talk) 10:31, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
( edit conflict):::I've written more at Talk:Harrying of the North which I think has NPOV issues. Dougweller ( talk) 15:49, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
Under Language it says "North Firesland". That should be North Friesland.
Roger Whitehead
This article is far from the quality project that I am sure many people desire. The tone I feel is set in a very traditional pre-1980s view of the subject. The article and this talk page do not start to outline the synthesis from Archaeology, History and Linguistics post 2000. One of the problems surely is the perception that it is locked to some editors who haven't or cant help get this article to at least B quality or above. If I am wrong is this perception I apologise. J Beake ( talk) 12:55, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
1 History
1.1 Migration period, 1.2 Conversion period, 1.3 "Long 8th century" 1.4 Viking age 1.5 Reform and establishment 1.6 Æthelred 1.7 Conquest and tranformation
2 Life in the Anglo-Saxon period
2.1 Rule and government 2.2 Rural Life 2.3 Towns 2.4 Religion 2.5 Trade and food
3 Anglo Saxon Culture
3.1 Heritage 3.2 Status and roles 3.3 Crafts 3.4 Buildings 3.5 Life and death
4 Legacy 5 See also 6 References 7 Further reading 8 External links
I have realised that there is another article called Anglo-Saxon England. I think probably that is the place for much of the historical narrative. I do dislike that title as it assumes England was entity before the 10th century, however maybe I should trim the historical narrative I have added in this article to Early, Middle and Late. We should then concentrate on how this narrative relates to the people, society and culture. J Beake ( talk) 08:04, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
I would say that most of this section, is not for a section in this article, it has nothing to do with Anglo-Saxons. That some people misuse a term, is unfortunate, but there are links to this at the start in disambiguous links. We have articles for WASP and Anglo-Saxon model for this information. Legacy is more important, for example; language, law and geography of England today.
Catherine Hills summarised the views of many modern scholars that attitudes towards Anglo-Saxon and hence the interpretation of their culture and history has been "more continguent on contemporary political and religious theology as on any kind of evidence." [1] For example that a Glasgow football club calls itself Celtic does not link to a contemporary meaning of the Celtic people. What is important is legacy - what happened to the monastries, what happened to the language, what happened to the churches, why is Cuthbert and Augustine still important, why do some people say that Aldhem was best writer of prose until Milton - why is the Anglo-Saxon culture of Tolkein important in the 21st century. Why did Seamus Heaney translate Beowulf and it became a best seller? Aren't these issue more important than the odd misuse of the term Anglo-Saxon.
I have suggested we revise this section. J ,Beake ( talk) 08:07, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
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Typo: at the end of the 3rd paragraph in the section 'Ethnonym' I believe 'anoited' should be corrected to 'anointed'. Cheers. 203.6.146.5 ( talk) 05:02, 11 April 2014 (UTC) 203.6.146.5 ( talk) 05:02, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
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Section 'Migration (c.410...)', paragraph beginning 'Gildas recounts...':-
BTW I understood that the abbreviation AD should generally precede dates. Cheers 203.6.146.5 ( talk) 05:29, 11 April 2014 (UTC) 203.6.146.5 ( talk) 05:29, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
The first I note FIRST German king was Charlemange of the 8th century!. So old English was latin as ins Bede's writtings, to King William of 1066 the dooms day book just to name a few examples. German did not exist in the 5th century it is IMPOSSIBLE!. So please if OLD English existed before the 13th century NORMANS that brought it to England. Please show some evidence. Also northen Germany near Holstein was part of Germany Magna, and they where not part of the Roman Empire, so they where not belivers of Christ. You need to do some research and stop writing dishonest lies. Atilla the Hun went up the danube and rhine and was killed in France 454AD. Avars had bases in Hunguary and Bugaria in the 8,9th century. Who ever wrote this of low intelligence. So please show the world!. Ohh sorry I believe some else wrote some thing simlar but you keep deleting his comments. Propaganda machine is at work here — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.80.98.184 ( talk) 16:00, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
All you do is tell your lies here. Engish language did not exist until the Norman's( Orginally a tribe from Scandinavia) brought it over from present day France over sometime in the late 13th century. Facts are 1. German language did not exist until 8th century!. Why see ptolemy's maps from 2nd century AD, Germania (Mostly Roman, Christians and where latin speakers and writers, and Germania Manga which includes the area's of Schleswig-Holstein ( East and northern side, Non Christians, most likey did not speak latin). Charlemange was note: First German king in mid 8th century who started the use of the German language see Monk "Abogran". So how could these Anglo Saxon mythical tribes speak OLD ENGLISH when the German language did not exist in the 5th century its IMPOSSIBLE!. Attila the hun also traveled up the Danube and then the Rhine and was killed in Gaul (France) no where near the Angles. No Huns made it that far ever, And the later Avars around the 8th and 9th century had bases in Hungary and Bulgaria. Mongols in the 13th century also never made it to Schleswig-Holstein area. Please supply some artifacts some copies of the actual documents from 1000-1500 years ago. And shame me in front of the whole world. Also the slavic tribes see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_Saxoniae. Arrived in 9th century but yes all the Germanic and Germans tribes left for Britannia in the 5th century AD. My history is not the best but I believe only two unarmed Saxon tribes arrived by ship in the city of present day Wessex around 460,470AD but Saxony is near Czech Republic?. All English old documents like the dooms day book 1066, Bede the Monk, as example are in latin, all your churches before say the 16th century where all christian and later Catholic. I could go and on but you really should know better. OLD ENGLISH. Thou shall be quite now. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=germania+magna&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=VYZ5U5ziGcnikAWAsoG4DQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=684#q=magna+germania&spell=1&tbm=isch https://www.google.com.au/#q=britannia+latin+cities+names http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_place_names_in_Britain ROMANS spoke and wrote in latin. SCHLESWIG HOLSTEIN WAS IN GERMANY MANGA they where not Christens like you!. OLD ENGLISH is mostly a latin based language — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.80.98.184 ( talk) 16:20, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
hi there is a grammar error / typo under the section "early anglo-saxon" - "The traditionally narrative of this period is one of decline and fall" - pretty sure it should read "The traditioNAL . ." and not "The traditioNALLY . ."
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On the fourth paragraph of "Conquest England: Danes and Normans (1016-1066)" it states:
"Edward became king in 1042, and would have been consider a Norman by those who lived across the English Channel."
Shouldn't that be "considered"?
Twiggy003 ( talk) 15:09, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
This was published in March 2015 in Nature by Peter Donnelly. Speaking on the BBC Inside Science program for 19 March, Adam Rutherford described it as a "truly magnificent study" using DNA analysis & statistics to map the history of British immigration from the earliest post ice age settlers until the 10th century." Worth a listen JRPG ( talk) 22:00, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
"The history of the Anglo-Saxons is the history of a cultural identity, and how this developed from divergent groups, "
Divergent groups ? Do you mean, different groups ? Isn't the history of the Anglo-Saxons a history of CONVERGENT groups, as the Saxons, Angles, Jutes, Britons, who were originally separate groups, converged to become the "old english" ? That would seem to me, to be the opposite of "divergent". Lathamibird ( talk) 00:50, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
When looking through these two articles, I really couldn't help but notice the large amount of overlap between the two topics. One might argue that this article is about the people, while the Anglo-Saxon England article is about the time period or history. However, the history sections in this article almost exactly overlap the other article in scope. Really, the only difference is that this article contains a brief summary of events after the Norman Conquest and discusses Anglo-Saxon culture. Since the Anglo-Saxons as a people are almost exclusively attached to their habitation of England, it makes sense that these articles should be one. The history sections would be merged, while the "After the Norman Conquest" section and all those below it could simply be cut and pasted into the other article. I realize the difficultly that might be involved while performing the merge, but I would be willing to help and I think it would ultimately be best to have one central overview article on the topic instead of two heavily overlapping ones. (I'll ping some of the users who would probably have the most interest in this RfC: Ealdgyth, Dudley Miles, Mike Christie) -- Biblio worm 18:48, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
"Heinrich Härke states:
It is now widely accepted that the Anglo-Saxons were not just transplanted Germanic invaders and settlers from the Continent, but the outcome of insular interactions and changes."
Does anyone else find this unclear? I *think* he's trying to say 'we don't think they just came over to Britain en masse and took the land. They interbred with the locals, many of whom took on Saxon style culture and allied with new Saxon factions'. But I can only get that far translating it from historian-ese from a background of wider reading. If anyone has access to the full text, would it be possible to use a longer quote which might be clearer? Or maybe quote a different authority? 'Insular interactions and changes' on its own seems a tad opaque and baffling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.71.104.222 ( talk) 09:27, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello, I noticed that ghmrytle reverted my edit stating that 'I gave a misleading account'. which put Anglo-Saxons back into the present tense as the people have not been succeeded by another race according to new research. In fact, I am a little confused as to why the article ever placed the race into the past tense seeing how the majority population of England are Anglo-Saxon English? Here is a pretty recent, non-contentious, reliably-sourced article [1] which lays out the facts, however, I may be wrong as this is not my field, regards. Twobells ( talk) 16:47, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
Also, in the lede is states: The Anglo-Saxon period denotes the period of British history between about 450 and 1066, after their initial Anglo-Saxon settlement of Britain, and up until the Norman conquest of England, According to the most recent research (and the 2015 Nature article) the impact of the Anglo-Saxon race has been of far greater importance than the Norman Invasion ever was and that Anglo-Saxons didn't suddenly disappear when William landed, rather the same tribal mores and creeds of the race continue to this day in almost exactly the same areas that their ancestors inhabited going so far as to state that the current population lives within the Anglo-Saxon boundaries set up 1500 years ago. So, with this in mind I think we need to revisit the lede put the race into the proper context and reduce the impact the Norman Invasion has on the article, regards. Twobells ( talk) 17:04, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
regards. Twobells ( talk) 17:04, 23 December 2015 (UTC) −
References
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"As they adopted this language and culture, the barriers began to dissolved between peoples, who had earlier lived parallel lives.[37]"
Here, the verb has to be corrected into the infinitive form: "[ ...] the barriers began to dissolve between [...]"
Having edited/corrected a great amount in Wikipedias GERMAN, SPANISH, some in FRENCH, and some other languages, it seems I lack the record within Wikipedia ENGLISH to be allowed to edit semi-protected texts. Can my record from these others be transferred in some way in order to allow me to enter semi-protected texts in Wikipedia ENGLISH ? -- MistaPPPP ( talk) 13:07, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
MistaPPPP ( talk) 13:07, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello here ! I highly appreciate the so far both given definitions of the former invaders of Great Britain, and the French way to describe the Anglosphere. But. I would like to know how english speakers refere - if they do, as I imagine that I do, using a (third meaning of ?) the expression "Anglo-Saxon" - to the importance of the Protestants (e.g. WASP) in the world ? I mean : no Protestants without Germans, so, no Anglosphere without them either. Does the expression "Anglo-Saxon" match a little with my feeling ? Thank you for your help. PRC 2rh ( talk) 09:06, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
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Change "In this period and beyond the Ango-Saxon culture is changing." to "In this period and beyond the Anglo-Saxon culture is changing." in the Conquest England section. 66.103.170.62 ( talk) 17:10, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
I notice on some other cultural/ ethnic group pages they have a similar format, with pictures of famous people of that culture, and 'areas with significant populations' (eg Romani people, Serbs) . Is it possible to do something similar for Anglo Saxons, if indeed there are any relevant studies? Hachimanchu ( talk) 17:35, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Shouldn't be mentioned in the entry chapter the so-called "Angeliter Land" the area in northern Germany (today, often south of Denmark) - south of the city of Flensburg - where quite some English folks came from? Of course Angel = (German) Engel leading to the name of England? ...and the Saxons came to that danish/german area before like the Westphalians from the east.
-- Gaschroeder ( talk) 19:59, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
Roman Britain was very much part of the Roman Empire and International Trade consortium. The Germanic tribes who took over the Western Roman Empire were obviously highly organised and efficient.
What happened to Britanic contacts throughout the Mediterranean? The Anglo-Saxons utilised a very similar culture to that of the Germanic tribes that took control over the Roman Empire. They were not a backward culture. Something happened to the whole economic and information system of Europe and North Africa which had direct consequences to the wealth of Britain and Europe as a whole. Indeed, it seems the authorities had no choice but to use an extreme form of Christianity in order to maintain that form of culture in Europe.
Something new and reductive happened to European/Mediterranean Culture after 600 AD and directly caused the reduction of Anglo-European wealth and power and transformed North Africa, the Middle East and Spain - but it isn't mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.148.154.80 ( talk) 21:09, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
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hi, I have noticed that in the first line there's a mistake, it says 'are a people' instead of 'are a tribe', maybe you should turn the word people into the word tribe, BTW, this is NOT answered I'll tell you when it is thanks - DragonGamer99 ( talk) 09:22, 19 February 2017 (UTC) DragonGamer99 ( talk) 09:22, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
When the Anglo-Saxons arrived in Britain, most kept clear of Roman towns. They preferred to live in small villages. However, warrior chiefs knew that a walled city made a good fortress. Some Saxons built wooden houses inside the walls of Roman towns.
Mrs K Cassin — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karencassin ( talk • contribs) 09:28, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
I know, I was being a little flip, however, the vast majority of the English would be horrified to see their race pushed into the past tense. The English and to somewhat greater or lesser extent the 'British' are a race of Anglo-Saxon people, they hold British nationality, their sub-ethnic group is English and their root....Anglo-Saxon. So please, stop consigning us to history :-) warm regards. Twobells ( talk) 19:05, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
We shouldn't try to "prove" the existence of Anglo-Saxons here, but rely on sources to do that. If the large majority contemporary sources support Anglo-Saxons as extant, then we must move this article to the present tense. If the large majority do not, then we follow the sources and use the past tense. Any other arguments are WP:SYNTH, at best. -- A D Monroe III ( talk) 16:51, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
There is a statement ...the use of Anglo-Saxon disguises the extent to which people identified as Anglo-Scandinavian after the Viking age or the conquest of 1016, or as Anglo-Norman after the Norman conquest. Which is either a typo or lacks context:
The intro bit states that they probably spoke old English. Didn't Anglo-SAXONS speak Old SAXON? Woolters ( talk) 13:04, 28 July 2012 (UTC)