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Hi. Do you think one of these article titles instead:
I have a soft spot for the second option, since it is more encompassing. Gun Powder Ma ( talk) 17:03, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
What is the definition of "ancient" in this article in terms of dates? After what year do we no longer consider a university to be "ancient"? VR talk 14:40, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Guys, Antiquity refers to the period before the middle ages, or before fall of (western) Rome. That doesn't include Madrasahs and Universities. If we rename the article premodern higher-learning institutions, that would work. Ian.thomson ( talk) 20:38, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Ian's point above is well taken; the term ancient is really inappropriate for the subject of this article. Drawing on Gun Powder Ma's discussion above, may I suggest the alternate titles:
I think GPM's preference for centres (or centers) rather than institutions of higher learning is a good one, as it allows the inclusion of early higher-learning centers that were not formally organized. My one qualifier is that I would read premodern as ending with the early modern period (which begins around 1500). Further discussion? -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 19:45, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The article cites a web page by Prof. Jerome Bump of the University of Texas as a source on the early history of the universities. Prof. Bump is the author of a biography of Gerard Manley Hopkins and of many articles on Hopkins and other aspects of Victorian literature. He is not, however, an expert on the history of education or on ancient or medieval history. I propose removing the citation and -- lacking the development of more reliable sources -- the arguments which it supports. -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 21:02, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The "western world" includes current day Turkey and Libya, because they were once Roman and Greek centers of civilization. The word "south asia" is a misnomer because the centers of learning in current day Pakistan and Bangladesh, were once essentially part and parcel of ancient India - being centers of Hinduism and Buddhism. This is why the term "India" is more appropriate to denote this. Otherwise, the term "western world" should be equivalently renamed as "Europe and Near East".— Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.19.40.92 ( talk • contribs)
At present, the article opens with the following introduction:
This article, and the related ones concerning universities, have been the source of recurring disputes -- primarily about the exclusion of non western institutions that do not meet the accepted definition of a university as a self-governing corporate body. I suggest rewriting the lede as follows to stress the different kinds of entities controlling other higher-learning institutions:
This section probably still needs some citations, but does it seem to go in the right direction? SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 19:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
The scope of the entry is not clearly defined. Other than the issue of what "ancient" means, more important would be clarification of what "higher-learning" means and why universities are excluded from that scope. "Higher learning" is clearly not characterized in this article by the curriculum, insofar as the curriculum is vastly different from institution to institution. So what determines the scope? Is it the social role of the institution? The relationship of the institution to other organs of learning that are not higher? Some other criterion? Until the principle underlying the scope is clarified, it is difficult to assess how the article ought to be expanded, given that much of it is little more than a name list with the related locations and eras. Robert Falkowitz ( talk) 16:33, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
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Your article has great information, but is rather confusing when looking at the content links. For example, Hellenism is a content link, but it not defined or described. Maybe re naming the the reader is one hundred percent sure they will be getting the information they are looking for when they click the link? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cbuck1103 ( talk • contribs) 19:47, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Cbuck1103 ( talk) 02:20, 14 November 2017 (UTC)cbuck1103
The region around that time was about religion/ideology rather than race. You find Middle Eastern institutions in India, Indian institutions in the Middle East and East Asia, etc... and therefore it's stupid to segregate in this manner. Sweatisoftheessence ( talk) 00:08, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Rafael's School of Athens has been used to illustrate this article since the earliest edit, with a caption describing it as a depiction of an ancient institution of higher learning, specifically Plato's Academy. The conventional interpretation of the fresco, however is that the picture is intended as a portrayal of ancient philosophy, in the context of other frescoes by Raphael depicting different aspects of Renaissance learning. Identifying it with Plato's Academy is problematic for several reasons. First, its two central figures are Plato and Aristotle, the chief figures of the two main competing traditions of Greek Philosophy. Secondly, going by the accepted identification of the persons in the painting, the presence of Ptolemy (ca. AD 100-ca AD 170), Boethius (ca. AD 477-AD 524) and Averroes (1126 - 1198) are chronologically, geographically, and philosophically impossible, since the original Academy ceased to exist as an institution around 86 BC and was briefly replaced by a Neoplatonic academy in the fifth and sixth centuries AD.
We can either revise the caption to indicate the image is a depiction of Ancient philosophy (which is a bit off target for this article) or replace this figure with a less elegant but historically more accurate contemporary depiction of Plato's academy. I prefer the latter. -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 19:19, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
Considering the importance of the Islamic centers in transmitting Ancient Greek philosophy and texts to Renaissance / modern Europe, wouldn’t it be Quite A Good Idea to have a section dealing with places like Kairouan? and the madrassahs of Ifrikiya generally? – SquisherDa ( talk) 19:14, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
See Kashmir Smast. The claim seems to be based on this [1] although there's no evidence whoever added it has read it. Doug Weller talk 15:05, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
I'm surprised to see no mention of this school. It's wikipedia page gives a date of 508 CE for its founding. It would probably be best classified as a monastic college. Msalt ( talk) 17:30, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
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Hi. Do you think one of these article titles instead:
I have a soft spot for the second option, since it is more encompassing. Gun Powder Ma ( talk) 17:03, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
What is the definition of "ancient" in this article in terms of dates? After what year do we no longer consider a university to be "ancient"? VR talk 14:40, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Guys, Antiquity refers to the period before the middle ages, or before fall of (western) Rome. That doesn't include Madrasahs and Universities. If we rename the article premodern higher-learning institutions, that would work. Ian.thomson ( talk) 20:38, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Ian's point above is well taken; the term ancient is really inappropriate for the subject of this article. Drawing on Gun Powder Ma's discussion above, may I suggest the alternate titles:
I think GPM's preference for centres (or centers) rather than institutions of higher learning is a good one, as it allows the inclusion of early higher-learning centers that were not formally organized. My one qualifier is that I would read premodern as ending with the early modern period (which begins around 1500). Further discussion? -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 19:45, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The article cites a web page by Prof. Jerome Bump of the University of Texas as a source on the early history of the universities. Prof. Bump is the author of a biography of Gerard Manley Hopkins and of many articles on Hopkins and other aspects of Victorian literature. He is not, however, an expert on the history of education or on ancient or medieval history. I propose removing the citation and -- lacking the development of more reliable sources -- the arguments which it supports. -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 21:02, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
The "western world" includes current day Turkey and Libya, because they were once Roman and Greek centers of civilization. The word "south asia" is a misnomer because the centers of learning in current day Pakistan and Bangladesh, were once essentially part and parcel of ancient India - being centers of Hinduism and Buddhism. This is why the term "India" is more appropriate to denote this. Otherwise, the term "western world" should be equivalently renamed as "Europe and Near East".— Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.19.40.92 ( talk • contribs)
At present, the article opens with the following introduction:
This article, and the related ones concerning universities, have been the source of recurring disputes -- primarily about the exclusion of non western institutions that do not meet the accepted definition of a university as a self-governing corporate body. I suggest rewriting the lede as follows to stress the different kinds of entities controlling other higher-learning institutions:
This section probably still needs some citations, but does it seem to go in the right direction? SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 19:36, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
The scope of the entry is not clearly defined. Other than the issue of what "ancient" means, more important would be clarification of what "higher-learning" means and why universities are excluded from that scope. "Higher learning" is clearly not characterized in this article by the curriculum, insofar as the curriculum is vastly different from institution to institution. So what determines the scope? Is it the social role of the institution? The relationship of the institution to other organs of learning that are not higher? Some other criterion? Until the principle underlying the scope is clarified, it is difficult to assess how the article ought to be expanded, given that much of it is little more than a name list with the related locations and eras. Robert Falkowitz ( talk) 16:33, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ancient higher-learning institutions. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:47, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
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Your article has great information, but is rather confusing when looking at the content links. For example, Hellenism is a content link, but it not defined or described. Maybe re naming the the reader is one hundred percent sure they will be getting the information they are looking for when they click the link? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cbuck1103 ( talk • contribs) 19:47, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Cbuck1103 ( talk) 02:20, 14 November 2017 (UTC)cbuck1103
The region around that time was about religion/ideology rather than race. You find Middle Eastern institutions in India, Indian institutions in the Middle East and East Asia, etc... and therefore it's stupid to segregate in this manner. Sweatisoftheessence ( talk) 00:08, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Rafael's School of Athens has been used to illustrate this article since the earliest edit, with a caption describing it as a depiction of an ancient institution of higher learning, specifically Plato's Academy. The conventional interpretation of the fresco, however is that the picture is intended as a portrayal of ancient philosophy, in the context of other frescoes by Raphael depicting different aspects of Renaissance learning. Identifying it with Plato's Academy is problematic for several reasons. First, its two central figures are Plato and Aristotle, the chief figures of the two main competing traditions of Greek Philosophy. Secondly, going by the accepted identification of the persons in the painting, the presence of Ptolemy (ca. AD 100-ca AD 170), Boethius (ca. AD 477-AD 524) and Averroes (1126 - 1198) are chronologically, geographically, and philosophically impossible, since the original Academy ceased to exist as an institution around 86 BC and was briefly replaced by a Neoplatonic academy in the fifth and sixth centuries AD.
We can either revise the caption to indicate the image is a depiction of Ancient philosophy (which is a bit off target for this article) or replace this figure with a less elegant but historically more accurate contemporary depiction of Plato's academy. I prefer the latter. -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 19:19, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
Considering the importance of the Islamic centers in transmitting Ancient Greek philosophy and texts to Renaissance / modern Europe, wouldn’t it be Quite A Good Idea to have a section dealing with places like Kairouan? and the madrassahs of Ifrikiya generally? – SquisherDa ( talk) 19:14, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
See Kashmir Smast. The claim seems to be based on this [1] although there's no evidence whoever added it has read it. Doug Weller talk 15:05, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
I'm surprised to see no mention of this school. It's wikipedia page gives a date of 508 CE for its founding. It would probably be best classified as a monastic college. Msalt ( talk) 17:30, 21 September 2021 (UTC)