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This is a disgracefully short and dismissive piece about one of the peak mid-20th century artistic achievements in cinema. Another has commented below about the mention of the "french" kid's flub. No argument against using it, but deeply shocking in light of any other anecdotes about the movie,whose history is extremely rich in anecdotes. Whoever edited this piece doesn't care much about the topic; or doesn't vare about it at all.
ea==Undue weight given to flub== In an article of this length about a film which won so many Academy Awards and honors, it seems like undue weight to include "Notably, near the beginning of the I Got Rhythm number, one of the "French" kids says Jerry, parle anglais à nous, which sounds rather curious, containing mistakes both in direct object placement and in respectful address. In the French soundtrack, which switches to the original sound for the duration of the songs, the à nous is masked through a plop sound, to make the sentence more palatable." Wikipedia articles about films are often harmed by original research flubs that someone has found. Unless this particular one can shown to have been mentioned by an independent and reliable source, it should be removed, since it goes against neutral point of view by harping too long on one perceived imperfection noted by a Wikipedia editor. Incidentally, in the subtitles of the movie, the kid says says "Jerry, parlez anglais." The kid's voice is heard saying additionally what sounds more like "a loo" than "a nous," not included in the subtitles. Since the kid has his back to the camera, the line could have been redubbed to say anything at little inconvenience or cost. Edison ( talk) 19:51, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree, the Wiki article on "American in Paris" is way too short. This is one of my favorite musicals. Look at the "West Side Story" movie article--it goes on forever. This Wiki article can be greatly expanded. There must have been books written about it that can provide info. 64.169.154.82 ( talk) 07:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Gene Kelly wanted to shoot in Paris, but they built 44 sets at MGM instead. Alan Jay Lerner finished the screenplay the night before his wedding. Cyd Charisse was to play Leslie Caron's part but became pregnant. Arthur Freed wanted Marge Champion for the part. There are no words in the last 20 minutes, 25 seconds of the musical. Leslie Caron, who had suffered malnutrition in WWII, was too frail and could only work every other day. Vincente Minelli was busy divorcing judy Garland at the time, so Kelly would take over directing chores. They were running behind schedule and the big number at the end was to be dropped, but LB Mayer realized the film needed it, so he kept it in. 64.169.154.82 ( talk) 08:05, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
http://vimeo.com/23782128 76.91.14.191 ( talk) 06:25, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Having just updated the subject page for the song Love Is Here to Stay, I thought it only appropriate that the song title be corrected on this page as well. The song is published, recorded on the An American in Paris Soundtrack , and referenced in all George Gershwin biographies as "Love Is Here to Stay". Although the phrasing when sung is misleading, and even Ira Gershwin himself toyed with the idea of changing the title, it is in fact simply: Love Is Here to Stay. Thanks. Maineartists ( talk) 22:19, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
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Just a quick question: were these mass edits really necessary? [1], [2], [3]. I didn't see anything wrong with the longstanding content that was there. I may be wrong, though. Maineartists ( talk) 20:49, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
I saw this listed at the Help Desk. I've skimmed through PNW Raven's edits and don't see this as a matter of "writing style" but a matter of poorer versus better, clearer, more-correct English language usage, with PNW Raven's changes being decidedly better than the existing language. Proper English usage is not a matter of "style" as referenced in MOS:VAR and expressing the encyclopedia in the best, clearest, and least-clumsy English possible is always a substantially beneficial reason for making a change in an article. Having said that, it may be that there could be some disagreement over whether some of PNW Raven's individual changes are, in fact, clearer or more correct. (I'm not saying that such is the case, I'm just saying that it's a possibility that someone might disagree.) But the objection here by Maineartists is to PNW Raven's edits taken collectively, and my opinion/!vote is that on that collective basis that they're beneficial, appropriate, and ought to be retained. Regards, TransporterMan ( TALK) 21:57, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
As I have stated before, the current editing of the plot summary is getting out of control and is becoming yet again: unnecessary. The editor who is constantly changing the content and wording is not doing so in a productive manner; but revisiting the section to fiddle with it to his/her liking. I understand that editing is not perfect and that it is also never finished; but this is getting ridiculous. This section is not for one editor to continually come back to and edit over and over again. Readers do not even have a chance to read a coherent summary without the same editor going in and either changing the wording that they themselves wrote or going back in to fix a mistake that they themselves put in. At some point, this has to stop. These are not edits or changes for the betterment of the section but for personal preference which is what I stated above months ago; yet the same editor is still at it. Just today this edit was made: [9] which has grammatical errors (something that the history summary proves time and time again); where the editor either does not realize themselves; or leaves for periods of time and goes back in and either changes or does not correct at all. I will reiterate: this is not a personal userspace or sandbox; it is a mainspace. Not a workspace. This edit: "wants to leave and later criticizes him as being rude." is not correct. It is "and later criticizes him for being rude." And this edit: "says the correct number" has been changed 3 times by the same editor. To what purpose? And why is the word "is" capitlized? "Upon discovering he IS Milo's sole dinner guest" 30 edits on the same section is not productive; especially since it is editing the same content time and time again by the same editor. I strongly am opposed to this style of editing. Since December 2021, WP readers of this article have not had the chance to read a consistent plot summary due to the same editor's consistent changes of their own work. Enough is enough. Maineartists ( talk) 17:54, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Per History Summary. This film should never have been called just a musical "comedy" film in the lead. It isn't. The entire storyline revolves around two men falling in love with the same woman. That's the story plot line. The songs are based on "love": "Our Love Is Here to Stay", "S'Wonderful", "But Not For Me". Every online synopsis focuses on "love": IMDB Plot summary: "Things become more complicated when two of them fall in love with the same woman.", TCM synopsis: "An American artist finds love in Paris", TVTropes: "A classic 1951 musical romantic comedy", Classic Movie Blog: "An American in Paris” tells the story of two people falling in love.", Roger Ebert: "Its story of two Americans in Montparnasse ... story of love won, lost, and won again." The comedy is supplied by Oscar Levant. It's more a romantic film than a straight comedy considering the Bridge Scene (Our Love is Here to Stay) is one of the most iconic scenes in cinematic history. Movie Music: "The song melody for the romantic “Love is Here to Stay” (1938) was utilized as Jerry and Lise’s Love Theme. The song choice was perfect as it offers classic romanticism, supporting a Jerry’s affirmation of love for Lise.". The lead should reflect the true plot and what this movie is known for: a romantic love story. It's not even listed here: Category:American musical comedy films Maineartists ( talk) 02:47, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
You seem to think there are sources out there that simply state what this movie is besides a musical.
The lead section should introduce the film and provide a summary of its most important aspects from the article body. At minimum, the opening sentence should identify the following elements: the title of the film, the year of its earliest public release (including film festival screenings), and the primary genre or sub-genre under which it is verifiably classified...Genre classifications should comply with WP:WEIGHT and represent what is specified by a majority of mainstream reliable sources.(emphasis mine)
a source that uses the phrase "romantic comedy". I was emphasising the fact that the genre had to be specifically mentioned in the source. If it's not specifically mentioned, then it's synthesis--ie original research. Original research should be avoided.
I could easily have reinstated "romantic" and placed a citation needed template.
By your own advice, you should have placed a template after "romantic"; not reverted it.comment too. It would be a huge waste of resources to tag every unverified new addition to every article and then sort it out later. Again, the onus should be on the person adding the unsourced material. And I suggested that you use the citation needed template on "comedy" because that's the etiquette for something that has already been in the article for years. If you want to remove it with the justification that it hasn't been verified, as I have said, it's no hair off of my back. DonQuixote ( talk) 13:06, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Maineartists, I don't know why you are trying to pick a fight, certainly not with me. I merely reverted an unexplained, unverified edit. Drmies ( talk) 15:26, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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This is a disgracefully short and dismissive piece about one of the peak mid-20th century artistic achievements in cinema. Another has commented below about the mention of the "french" kid's flub. No argument against using it, but deeply shocking in light of any other anecdotes about the movie,whose history is extremely rich in anecdotes. Whoever edited this piece doesn't care much about the topic; or doesn't vare about it at all.
ea==Undue weight given to flub== In an article of this length about a film which won so many Academy Awards and honors, it seems like undue weight to include "Notably, near the beginning of the I Got Rhythm number, one of the "French" kids says Jerry, parle anglais à nous, which sounds rather curious, containing mistakes both in direct object placement and in respectful address. In the French soundtrack, which switches to the original sound for the duration of the songs, the à nous is masked through a plop sound, to make the sentence more palatable." Wikipedia articles about films are often harmed by original research flubs that someone has found. Unless this particular one can shown to have been mentioned by an independent and reliable source, it should be removed, since it goes against neutral point of view by harping too long on one perceived imperfection noted by a Wikipedia editor. Incidentally, in the subtitles of the movie, the kid says says "Jerry, parlez anglais." The kid's voice is heard saying additionally what sounds more like "a loo" than "a nous," not included in the subtitles. Since the kid has his back to the camera, the line could have been redubbed to say anything at little inconvenience or cost. Edison ( talk) 19:51, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree, the Wiki article on "American in Paris" is way too short. This is one of my favorite musicals. Look at the "West Side Story" movie article--it goes on forever. This Wiki article can be greatly expanded. There must have been books written about it that can provide info. 64.169.154.82 ( talk) 07:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Gene Kelly wanted to shoot in Paris, but they built 44 sets at MGM instead. Alan Jay Lerner finished the screenplay the night before his wedding. Cyd Charisse was to play Leslie Caron's part but became pregnant. Arthur Freed wanted Marge Champion for the part. There are no words in the last 20 minutes, 25 seconds of the musical. Leslie Caron, who had suffered malnutrition in WWII, was too frail and could only work every other day. Vincente Minelli was busy divorcing judy Garland at the time, so Kelly would take over directing chores. They were running behind schedule and the big number at the end was to be dropped, but LB Mayer realized the film needed it, so he kept it in. 64.169.154.82 ( talk) 08:05, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
http://vimeo.com/23782128 76.91.14.191 ( talk) 06:25, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Having just updated the subject page for the song Love Is Here to Stay, I thought it only appropriate that the song title be corrected on this page as well. The song is published, recorded on the An American in Paris Soundtrack , and referenced in all George Gershwin biographies as "Love Is Here to Stay". Although the phrasing when sung is misleading, and even Ira Gershwin himself toyed with the idea of changing the title, it is in fact simply: Love Is Here to Stay. Thanks. Maineartists ( talk) 22:19, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
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Just a quick question: were these mass edits really necessary? [1], [2], [3]. I didn't see anything wrong with the longstanding content that was there. I may be wrong, though. Maineartists ( talk) 20:49, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
I saw this listed at the Help Desk. I've skimmed through PNW Raven's edits and don't see this as a matter of "writing style" but a matter of poorer versus better, clearer, more-correct English language usage, with PNW Raven's changes being decidedly better than the existing language. Proper English usage is not a matter of "style" as referenced in MOS:VAR and expressing the encyclopedia in the best, clearest, and least-clumsy English possible is always a substantially beneficial reason for making a change in an article. Having said that, it may be that there could be some disagreement over whether some of PNW Raven's individual changes are, in fact, clearer or more correct. (I'm not saying that such is the case, I'm just saying that it's a possibility that someone might disagree.) But the objection here by Maineartists is to PNW Raven's edits taken collectively, and my opinion/!vote is that on that collective basis that they're beneficial, appropriate, and ought to be retained. Regards, TransporterMan ( TALK) 21:57, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
As I have stated before, the current editing of the plot summary is getting out of control and is becoming yet again: unnecessary. The editor who is constantly changing the content and wording is not doing so in a productive manner; but revisiting the section to fiddle with it to his/her liking. I understand that editing is not perfect and that it is also never finished; but this is getting ridiculous. This section is not for one editor to continually come back to and edit over and over again. Readers do not even have a chance to read a coherent summary without the same editor going in and either changing the wording that they themselves wrote or going back in to fix a mistake that they themselves put in. At some point, this has to stop. These are not edits or changes for the betterment of the section but for personal preference which is what I stated above months ago; yet the same editor is still at it. Just today this edit was made: [9] which has grammatical errors (something that the history summary proves time and time again); where the editor either does not realize themselves; or leaves for periods of time and goes back in and either changes or does not correct at all. I will reiterate: this is not a personal userspace or sandbox; it is a mainspace. Not a workspace. This edit: "wants to leave and later criticizes him as being rude." is not correct. It is "and later criticizes him for being rude." And this edit: "says the correct number" has been changed 3 times by the same editor. To what purpose? And why is the word "is" capitlized? "Upon discovering he IS Milo's sole dinner guest" 30 edits on the same section is not productive; especially since it is editing the same content time and time again by the same editor. I strongly am opposed to this style of editing. Since December 2021, WP readers of this article have not had the chance to read a consistent plot summary due to the same editor's consistent changes of their own work. Enough is enough. Maineartists ( talk) 17:54, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
Per History Summary. This film should never have been called just a musical "comedy" film in the lead. It isn't. The entire storyline revolves around two men falling in love with the same woman. That's the story plot line. The songs are based on "love": "Our Love Is Here to Stay", "S'Wonderful", "But Not For Me". Every online synopsis focuses on "love": IMDB Plot summary: "Things become more complicated when two of them fall in love with the same woman.", TCM synopsis: "An American artist finds love in Paris", TVTropes: "A classic 1951 musical romantic comedy", Classic Movie Blog: "An American in Paris” tells the story of two people falling in love.", Roger Ebert: "Its story of two Americans in Montparnasse ... story of love won, lost, and won again." The comedy is supplied by Oscar Levant. It's more a romantic film than a straight comedy considering the Bridge Scene (Our Love is Here to Stay) is one of the most iconic scenes in cinematic history. Movie Music: "The song melody for the romantic “Love is Here to Stay” (1938) was utilized as Jerry and Lise’s Love Theme. The song choice was perfect as it offers classic romanticism, supporting a Jerry’s affirmation of love for Lise.". The lead should reflect the true plot and what this movie is known for: a romantic love story. It's not even listed here: Category:American musical comedy films Maineartists ( talk) 02:47, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
You seem to think there are sources out there that simply state what this movie is besides a musical.
The lead section should introduce the film and provide a summary of its most important aspects from the article body. At minimum, the opening sentence should identify the following elements: the title of the film, the year of its earliest public release (including film festival screenings), and the primary genre or sub-genre under which it is verifiably classified...Genre classifications should comply with WP:WEIGHT and represent what is specified by a majority of mainstream reliable sources.(emphasis mine)
a source that uses the phrase "romantic comedy". I was emphasising the fact that the genre had to be specifically mentioned in the source. If it's not specifically mentioned, then it's synthesis--ie original research. Original research should be avoided.
I could easily have reinstated "romantic" and placed a citation needed template.
By your own advice, you should have placed a template after "romantic"; not reverted it.comment too. It would be a huge waste of resources to tag every unverified new addition to every article and then sort it out later. Again, the onus should be on the person adding the unsourced material. And I suggested that you use the citation needed template on "comedy" because that's the etiquette for something that has already been in the article for years. If you want to remove it with the justification that it hasn't been verified, as I have said, it's no hair off of my back. DonQuixote ( talk) 13:06, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Maineartists, I don't know why you are trying to pick a fight, certainly not with me. I merely reverted an unexplained, unverified edit. Drmies ( talk) 15:26, 12 July 2023 (UTC)