![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
"Goldblum invented an algorithm for solving extremely complex combinatorial problems, called Iterative Stochastic Elimination (ISE)". "Extremely" seems a little non-neutral, and not supported by source. Also, it is primary source, should try to find secondary. And source 5 seems questionable, since he's on the science commitee. [1] Some cleanup and source-checking seems to be required. Amlaera ( talk) 12:05, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
an extremist called Gerald Steinberg whose main intent in the piece he wrote for the right wing paper of Sheldon Adelson in Israel was to attack the New Israel Fund, which is one of his main vocations. That is why the name of Goldblum was introduced, as Goldblum used money from a memorial fund of his wife to finance the poll, a fund whose assets were held by a "sister organization" of the New Israel Fund (NIF) while NIF or that org had nothing to do with the poll. moreover, Soosim claims that Goldblum paid for the poll. But it is a FAMILY fund, in which Israela Goldblum's brother, Mr. Ami Weinstein, his children, and Golbdlum's children (including the one who was very badly wounded in Tzeelim Bet) were all involved. It is not Goldblum who paid but the Family fund who paid for the poll.
Goldblum did not pose the questions, did not perform the poll and did not publish it. In other words, the piece by Steinberg that was cited here and deleted by me is a nonsense piece, in teh style of Daniel Pipes accusations. It is only one of hundreds of pieces in the Israeli and International media about that poll. Moreover, that right wing paper Israel Hayom refused to publish a response by Goldblum to the Steinberg stupid smear. And now Sossim wishes to take this single quite lunatic piece to center stage, again for the sake of political (and possibly legal) smearing (as in August 2012 when Wikipedia editors blocked the smears by deleting the article on Goldblum) It is suggested that Wikipedia senior editors would intervene and make a decision about eother blocking this article to the smearing attempts by Soosim, or delete that article entirely, as they did before in August 2012.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rastiniak ( talk • contribs) 13:21, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Why delete crucial information abour the attempt to murder Goldblum and his friends in a demonstration ? Why is the deleting person so alarmed by the description of the murderer (who never expressed any remorse and sat 27 years in Jail...) ? Could it be because that person is a settler or supports settlers ? Isn't it correct that all political violence in Israel and by Israelis is only by the right wing, mostly settlers' violence and threats ?
As to the lack of RS for Goldblum being in the first line with Grunzweig (and thus, being in direct danger due to the thorwing of the hand grenade) : here is an excellent description of the first line of that demonstration: [2] חברי אמיל גרינצווייג, עופר אבני ועמירם גולדבלום יצרו "שרשרת ידיים" להגן על המגפון ועלי צילום שרשרת הידיים הפך להיות הצילום האחרון של אמיל גרינצוייג.
Translation: "My friends Emil Grunzweig, Ofer Avni and Amiram Goldblum created a "chain of hands" to protect the megaphone and myself. The photo of that chain of hands turned to be the last one of Emil Grunzweig" (The writer Naftali Raz is seen in the photo (see Emil Grunzweig) with the megaphone behind the first row with Grunzweig, murdered a short while later, in the center, ofer Avni is next to him on the right, and Goldblum is at the right end of that chain). Is that enough as a WP:RS ?
The issue of the "apartheid poll" in the "politics" section of the Goldblum article is clearly not balanced with the
rest of the information about the "politics" of Goldblum = 2 lines describing 20 years of activities while
6 lines deal with a poll of opinions of the Jewish population. Even if Goldblum helped realize that poll with the family fund, he can not be criticized for the opinions of the Israeli public: a poll that has been performed by a major polling company, DIALOG, that would not dare distort any poll that it performs, surveyed by
a major Israeli academic Prof. Fuchs, one of the 3 most prominent ones in this field in Israel, who would not risk his career for an inappropriate poll, and published by the prominent
journal "HAARETZ". At most, Goldblum was one of the 8 who comissioned the poll and suggested the initial questions, to
which DIALOG and Prof. Fuchs made the proper changes in order to be most professional:
The two sources in the following edit are thus inappropriate and seem to be again an attempt to smear Goldblum: 1) The JC report (Reference no. 18): Jewish Chronicle is the paper of the Jewish Community in the UK, It has commitments to the Jewish Community and can not be considered to be a neutral source, in particular in this case in which Jews may feel threatened by a poll taken among Jews which reflects much racism and possibilities of future apartheid. The correct sources for this survey are the original piece (after correction of a wrong title) in Haaretz: [3] Or the Globe and Mail, a paper that is not considered to be "antisemitic" as some might characterize the Guardian or the Independent: [4]
2) The second source (Ref. 19) is an opinion blog by Elhanan Miller in an internet site. There have been many opinion articles in the papers due to the shocking results of the poll. However, the wording "press release from Goldblum" is incorrect, as it conveys a press release done by Goldblum, which it is not, only SENT by Goldblum to Miller.
3) Anyone who wishes to read the detailed poll questions and results, by sectors of the Jewish community, may find it here [5]
4) There is already a very wide article on WP under October 2012 Haaretz poll so this could be referenced here.
My suggestions for a compromise text: Goldblum was one of the group that organized the controversial October 2012 Haaretz poll about attitudes of Israeli Jews to arabs and to Palestinians. The questions and answers were published only in Hebrew [6].
The above lines are suggested instead of the following inappropriate text:
In October 2012, Goldblum and his family foundation, the Yisraela Goldblum Fund paid for and "was instrumental in commissioning"
[7] a
controversial poll regarding Israeli attitudes towards prejudice. In a press release from Goldblum, he said that he stands by the orginal version of the results as published, stating that “a large part of the Jewish population (58%) accepts the application of the term ‘
apartheid’ to the current state of affairs in Israel.” Goldblum also acknowledged there were problems with a question used on the poll.
[8]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rastiniak ( talk • contribs) 11:07, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
it seems that editor rastignac simply didn't read the article. how is he not connected when he is mentioned in the article, his house, his neighbors, his comments in response, etc. http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-23/news/mn-2971_1_peace-activists -- prof rastignac, please self-revert. Soosim ( talk) 08:51, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Following the 1990 triple stabbing Palestinian terror attack[20], leaving three Israelis dead in Goldblum's Jerusalem neighborhood, a group of local residents went to Goldblum's home and called him a "PLO supporter" and a "Leftist", and then threw stones at his apartment. Goldblum responded by saying, "We are being made a scapegoat. It's madness, sheer madness."[21]
Soosim writes that "Goldblum responded by saying.... etc. " - However there are several quotations of Goldblum in the LAT piece, in response to questions of the reporter.
This talk page is for how to edit this article. If anyone has concerns about COI, there's a noticeboard for that. Repeated digressions into whether an editor is or is not Goldblum are not constructive in discussing how to edit the article. I intend to remove any posts that do not conform to the purpose of talk pages. Don't like it? Take it to ANI. Again, though, if you want to discuss COI take it to the COI noticeboard. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 06:21, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Comment from protecting administrator: I see no arguments supporting a wholesale reversion of reasonably sourced text added by Soosim, but I do see plenty of reasoning above to support modification of that text. I see plenty of complaints from רסטיניאק, but so far, no one has advanced a single proposal about what, exactly, should be changed and how it should be phrased or cited. Until that happens, I see no reason why the protection of this article should be allowed to expire. Somebody please propose something and discuss. ~ Amatulić ( talk) 12:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
I suggest the following: Following an incident in 1990 when a Palestinian stabbed and killed three residents of Goldblum's Jerusalem neighborhood, a group of local residents went to Goldblum's home and called him a "PLO supporter" and a "Leftist", and then threw stones at his apartment. Goldblum responded by saying, "We are being made a scapegoat. It's madness, sheer madness." - ok? Soosim ( talk) 12:39, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello, per the discussion at ANI [2] which placed further doubts on this content, I have removed the section per WP:BLPREMOVE. Please continue your discussions about the appropriateness of this section and how to phrase it if it is to be include. Slp1 ( talk) 02:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
I suggest that giving any coverage to the incident is WP:UNDUE. Soosim's obvious intention in adding a passage about it is to get the idea "Goldblum is a PLO supporter" into the article. A close reading of the LA Times article shows that it isn't even clear that it was Goldblum that they called a PLO supporter (the text at that point refers only to a "prominent peace activist"). Now that things have been reset properly we could discuss what sort of text belongs in the article and add it once there is consensus, but I'm not convinced that any text about this issue belongs in the article. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 04:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
Even without J. Post, what I wrote is a fair combination of the sources, with no synthesis in the sense of "A" and "B" make "C". I am afraid that any attempt to report about that story must be a combination from reliable sources or an imaginary distortion, which was what we had before. The Yedioth Ahronoth does mention Goldblum. LAT does so too. It should not be difficult to combine the two without "synthesizing". However, the murder was followed by riots all over Jerusalem, so why focus on the Baka area, and more specifically, the Goldblum apartment. The single Los Angeles Times reporter was in Baka' while many Yedioth Ahronoth reporters and Jerusalem Post reporters were spread all over town. Their reports are much wider and more balnanced (due to the quantity of reports) when considering the immediate traumatic responses mostly by Jewish thugs from the Kahane illegal terrorist groups. In those more balance reports, Golbdlum is indeed a miniscule issue, as Slp1 just found in the J. Post reports. That is why Yedioth has 8-9 pages, J. Post has 3 (larger pages than Yedioth), reporting on the incidents all over Jerusalem. A bit like reporters in different battles of the same war. So the focusing in that terrible day on the Goldblum apartment is petty and highly unproportional, unless someone wishes to use that for some other purpose, which is what I suspect. Is it possible that someone needs it for "proving" something to someone ? Maybe to refute the apology to Goldblum by the Israel Project [1] ? or to someone else ? I will however try to get to the Yedioth relevant pages and translate them here. Now that more sources have been exposed, I do not see any reason that WP should have anything on that issue in Goldblum's article. רסטיניאק ( talk) 15:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)רסטיניאק
So how about this... Goldblum's peace activities have resulted in physical and verbal attacks against him and other left-leaning Jews by right-wing Israelis.(LAT, SMH) Following the murder three of Jews by a Palestinian, extremist Jews went to Goldblum's house in Baka - the neighborhood where Goldblum and other peace activists lived.(LAT, SMH) They shouted insults and threw stones at his apartment.(LAT, SMH, book). This is solidly sourced from the sources we have to date. Slp1 ( talk) 18:07, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
בבוקר נזרקו אבנים על הקומה למעלה. היו גם איומים טלפוניים. פעילי שמאל שניסו להתווכח עם החבורה שעמדה למטה, ספגו מכות. דובר "כך" טען אתמול שאנשיו פגעו בדירתו של עמירם גולדבלום, דובר שלום עכשיו לשעבר. גם הוא גר שם. I hope that this is satisfactory. It does not seem that there are two apartments, but there were many "Peaceniks" as well as journalists who were attacked and beaten by the group of demonstrators, most of them came as an organized Kach-Kahane thugs to create an atmosphere of terror. רסטיניאק ( talk) 14:46, 19 May 2013 (UTC)רסטיניאק
Goldblum's peace activities have resulted in physical and verbal attacks against him and other left-leaning Jews by right-wing Israelis.(LAT, SMH) Following the murder of three Jews by a Palestinian in the neighborhood of Baka, extremist Jews rioted all over Jerusalem , some went to Baka - where Goldblum and other peace activists lived.(LAT, SMH) They shouted insults and threw stones at Goldblum's apartment (LAT, SMH, book), drove Arab workers from a construction site (LAT) and had beaten left wing activists and journalists who tried to discuss with them. The Kach ( Kach and Kahane Chai Jewish terror organization) claimed that his men hit Goldblum's apartment (Yedioth) . רסטיניאק ( talk) 16:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)רסטיניאק
While I would not be vehemently opposed to the approach that Slp1 was advocating, it is clear that there is not a consensus for adding something along those lines. That's a situation I can live with as well. The discussion of course could continue, but it isn't apparent that it will be productive in the sense of leading to a consensus on this matter. things might well remain that way for some time. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 19:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
Most important: Yedioth Ahronoth, out of 8 pages with thousands of words on the murder, the murdered, their families, the clashes over the whole city, mentions Goldblum only in the context already given above, of the Terrorist Kach organization spokesman who claimed that his men hit the Goldblum apartment. Less than 10 words out of many thousands. Jerusalem Post has three full pages about that day, again with many reporters and many reports, thousands of words, and not a single one about Goldblum. Finally, Maariv has 3 full pages with some 15 reporters, none of them mentioned anything about Goldblum. It seems thus that the attempt to focus the Baka murders on Goldblum is highly unblanaced and with no proportion to what really happened. However, if anyone suggests to use the sentences that mention Goldblum, with meaningful and balanced quotations of his, that could be OK. רסטיניאק ( talk) 21:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)רסטיניאק
The last person to add the "neutrality" tag was Nataev, who is no longer active on this article. If there are others who believe there is a POV problem here, please speak up; otherwise the tag should be removed. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 08:38, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
"Goldblum invented an algorithm for solving extremely complex combinatorial problems, called Iterative Stochastic Elimination (ISE)". "Extremely" seems a little non-neutral, and not supported by source. Also, it is primary source, should try to find secondary. And source 5 seems questionable, since he's on the science commitee. [1] Some cleanup and source-checking seems to be required. Amlaera ( talk) 12:05, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
an extremist called Gerald Steinberg whose main intent in the piece he wrote for the right wing paper of Sheldon Adelson in Israel was to attack the New Israel Fund, which is one of his main vocations. That is why the name of Goldblum was introduced, as Goldblum used money from a memorial fund of his wife to finance the poll, a fund whose assets were held by a "sister organization" of the New Israel Fund (NIF) while NIF or that org had nothing to do with the poll. moreover, Soosim claims that Goldblum paid for the poll. But it is a FAMILY fund, in which Israela Goldblum's brother, Mr. Ami Weinstein, his children, and Golbdlum's children (including the one who was very badly wounded in Tzeelim Bet) were all involved. It is not Goldblum who paid but the Family fund who paid for the poll.
Goldblum did not pose the questions, did not perform the poll and did not publish it. In other words, the piece by Steinberg that was cited here and deleted by me is a nonsense piece, in teh style of Daniel Pipes accusations. It is only one of hundreds of pieces in the Israeli and International media about that poll. Moreover, that right wing paper Israel Hayom refused to publish a response by Goldblum to the Steinberg stupid smear. And now Sossim wishes to take this single quite lunatic piece to center stage, again for the sake of political (and possibly legal) smearing (as in August 2012 when Wikipedia editors blocked the smears by deleting the article on Goldblum) It is suggested that Wikipedia senior editors would intervene and make a decision about eother blocking this article to the smearing attempts by Soosim, or delete that article entirely, as they did before in August 2012.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rastiniak ( talk • contribs) 13:21, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Why delete crucial information abour the attempt to murder Goldblum and his friends in a demonstration ? Why is the deleting person so alarmed by the description of the murderer (who never expressed any remorse and sat 27 years in Jail...) ? Could it be because that person is a settler or supports settlers ? Isn't it correct that all political violence in Israel and by Israelis is only by the right wing, mostly settlers' violence and threats ?
As to the lack of RS for Goldblum being in the first line with Grunzweig (and thus, being in direct danger due to the thorwing of the hand grenade) : here is an excellent description of the first line of that demonstration: [2] חברי אמיל גרינצווייג, עופר אבני ועמירם גולדבלום יצרו "שרשרת ידיים" להגן על המגפון ועלי צילום שרשרת הידיים הפך להיות הצילום האחרון של אמיל גרינצוייג.
Translation: "My friends Emil Grunzweig, Ofer Avni and Amiram Goldblum created a "chain of hands" to protect the megaphone and myself. The photo of that chain of hands turned to be the last one of Emil Grunzweig" (The writer Naftali Raz is seen in the photo (see Emil Grunzweig) with the megaphone behind the first row with Grunzweig, murdered a short while later, in the center, ofer Avni is next to him on the right, and Goldblum is at the right end of that chain). Is that enough as a WP:RS ?
The issue of the "apartheid poll" in the "politics" section of the Goldblum article is clearly not balanced with the
rest of the information about the "politics" of Goldblum = 2 lines describing 20 years of activities while
6 lines deal with a poll of opinions of the Jewish population. Even if Goldblum helped realize that poll with the family fund, he can not be criticized for the opinions of the Israeli public: a poll that has been performed by a major polling company, DIALOG, that would not dare distort any poll that it performs, surveyed by
a major Israeli academic Prof. Fuchs, one of the 3 most prominent ones in this field in Israel, who would not risk his career for an inappropriate poll, and published by the prominent
journal "HAARETZ". At most, Goldblum was one of the 8 who comissioned the poll and suggested the initial questions, to
which DIALOG and Prof. Fuchs made the proper changes in order to be most professional:
The two sources in the following edit are thus inappropriate and seem to be again an attempt to smear Goldblum: 1) The JC report (Reference no. 18): Jewish Chronicle is the paper of the Jewish Community in the UK, It has commitments to the Jewish Community and can not be considered to be a neutral source, in particular in this case in which Jews may feel threatened by a poll taken among Jews which reflects much racism and possibilities of future apartheid. The correct sources for this survey are the original piece (after correction of a wrong title) in Haaretz: [3] Or the Globe and Mail, a paper that is not considered to be "antisemitic" as some might characterize the Guardian or the Independent: [4]
2) The second source (Ref. 19) is an opinion blog by Elhanan Miller in an internet site. There have been many opinion articles in the papers due to the shocking results of the poll. However, the wording "press release from Goldblum" is incorrect, as it conveys a press release done by Goldblum, which it is not, only SENT by Goldblum to Miller.
3) Anyone who wishes to read the detailed poll questions and results, by sectors of the Jewish community, may find it here [5]
4) There is already a very wide article on WP under October 2012 Haaretz poll so this could be referenced here.
My suggestions for a compromise text: Goldblum was one of the group that organized the controversial October 2012 Haaretz poll about attitudes of Israeli Jews to arabs and to Palestinians. The questions and answers were published only in Hebrew [6].
The above lines are suggested instead of the following inappropriate text:
In October 2012, Goldblum and his family foundation, the Yisraela Goldblum Fund paid for and "was instrumental in commissioning"
[7] a
controversial poll regarding Israeli attitudes towards prejudice. In a press release from Goldblum, he said that he stands by the orginal version of the results as published, stating that “a large part of the Jewish population (58%) accepts the application of the term ‘
apartheid’ to the current state of affairs in Israel.” Goldblum also acknowledged there were problems with a question used on the poll.
[8]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rastiniak ( talk • contribs) 11:07, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
it seems that editor rastignac simply didn't read the article. how is he not connected when he is mentioned in the article, his house, his neighbors, his comments in response, etc. http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-23/news/mn-2971_1_peace-activists -- prof rastignac, please self-revert. Soosim ( talk) 08:51, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Following the 1990 triple stabbing Palestinian terror attack[20], leaving three Israelis dead in Goldblum's Jerusalem neighborhood, a group of local residents went to Goldblum's home and called him a "PLO supporter" and a "Leftist", and then threw stones at his apartment. Goldblum responded by saying, "We are being made a scapegoat. It's madness, sheer madness."[21]
Soosim writes that "Goldblum responded by saying.... etc. " - However there are several quotations of Goldblum in the LAT piece, in response to questions of the reporter.
This talk page is for how to edit this article. If anyone has concerns about COI, there's a noticeboard for that. Repeated digressions into whether an editor is or is not Goldblum are not constructive in discussing how to edit the article. I intend to remove any posts that do not conform to the purpose of talk pages. Don't like it? Take it to ANI. Again, though, if you want to discuss COI take it to the COI noticeboard. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 06:21, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Comment from protecting administrator: I see no arguments supporting a wholesale reversion of reasonably sourced text added by Soosim, but I do see plenty of reasoning above to support modification of that text. I see plenty of complaints from רסטיניאק, but so far, no one has advanced a single proposal about what, exactly, should be changed and how it should be phrased or cited. Until that happens, I see no reason why the protection of this article should be allowed to expire. Somebody please propose something and discuss. ~ Amatulić ( talk) 12:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
I suggest the following: Following an incident in 1990 when a Palestinian stabbed and killed three residents of Goldblum's Jerusalem neighborhood, a group of local residents went to Goldblum's home and called him a "PLO supporter" and a "Leftist", and then threw stones at his apartment. Goldblum responded by saying, "We are being made a scapegoat. It's madness, sheer madness." - ok? Soosim ( talk) 12:39, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello, per the discussion at ANI [2] which placed further doubts on this content, I have removed the section per WP:BLPREMOVE. Please continue your discussions about the appropriateness of this section and how to phrase it if it is to be include. Slp1 ( talk) 02:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
I suggest that giving any coverage to the incident is WP:UNDUE. Soosim's obvious intention in adding a passage about it is to get the idea "Goldblum is a PLO supporter" into the article. A close reading of the LA Times article shows that it isn't even clear that it was Goldblum that they called a PLO supporter (the text at that point refers only to a "prominent peace activist"). Now that things have been reset properly we could discuss what sort of text belongs in the article and add it once there is consensus, but I'm not convinced that any text about this issue belongs in the article. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 04:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
Even without J. Post, what I wrote is a fair combination of the sources, with no synthesis in the sense of "A" and "B" make "C". I am afraid that any attempt to report about that story must be a combination from reliable sources or an imaginary distortion, which was what we had before. The Yedioth Ahronoth does mention Goldblum. LAT does so too. It should not be difficult to combine the two without "synthesizing". However, the murder was followed by riots all over Jerusalem, so why focus on the Baka area, and more specifically, the Goldblum apartment. The single Los Angeles Times reporter was in Baka' while many Yedioth Ahronoth reporters and Jerusalem Post reporters were spread all over town. Their reports are much wider and more balnanced (due to the quantity of reports) when considering the immediate traumatic responses mostly by Jewish thugs from the Kahane illegal terrorist groups. In those more balance reports, Golbdlum is indeed a miniscule issue, as Slp1 just found in the J. Post reports. That is why Yedioth has 8-9 pages, J. Post has 3 (larger pages than Yedioth), reporting on the incidents all over Jerusalem. A bit like reporters in different battles of the same war. So the focusing in that terrible day on the Goldblum apartment is petty and highly unproportional, unless someone wishes to use that for some other purpose, which is what I suspect. Is it possible that someone needs it for "proving" something to someone ? Maybe to refute the apology to Goldblum by the Israel Project [1] ? or to someone else ? I will however try to get to the Yedioth relevant pages and translate them here. Now that more sources have been exposed, I do not see any reason that WP should have anything on that issue in Goldblum's article. רסטיניאק ( talk) 15:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)רסטיניאק
So how about this... Goldblum's peace activities have resulted in physical and verbal attacks against him and other left-leaning Jews by right-wing Israelis.(LAT, SMH) Following the murder three of Jews by a Palestinian, extremist Jews went to Goldblum's house in Baka - the neighborhood where Goldblum and other peace activists lived.(LAT, SMH) They shouted insults and threw stones at his apartment.(LAT, SMH, book). This is solidly sourced from the sources we have to date. Slp1 ( talk) 18:07, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
בבוקר נזרקו אבנים על הקומה למעלה. היו גם איומים טלפוניים. פעילי שמאל שניסו להתווכח עם החבורה שעמדה למטה, ספגו מכות. דובר "כך" טען אתמול שאנשיו פגעו בדירתו של עמירם גולדבלום, דובר שלום עכשיו לשעבר. גם הוא גר שם. I hope that this is satisfactory. It does not seem that there are two apartments, but there were many "Peaceniks" as well as journalists who were attacked and beaten by the group of demonstrators, most of them came as an organized Kach-Kahane thugs to create an atmosphere of terror. רסטיניאק ( talk) 14:46, 19 May 2013 (UTC)רסטיניאק
Goldblum's peace activities have resulted in physical and verbal attacks against him and other left-leaning Jews by right-wing Israelis.(LAT, SMH) Following the murder of three Jews by a Palestinian in the neighborhood of Baka, extremist Jews rioted all over Jerusalem , some went to Baka - where Goldblum and other peace activists lived.(LAT, SMH) They shouted insults and threw stones at Goldblum's apartment (LAT, SMH, book), drove Arab workers from a construction site (LAT) and had beaten left wing activists and journalists who tried to discuss with them. The Kach ( Kach and Kahane Chai Jewish terror organization) claimed that his men hit Goldblum's apartment (Yedioth) . רסטיניאק ( talk) 16:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)רסטיניאק
While I would not be vehemently opposed to the approach that Slp1 was advocating, it is clear that there is not a consensus for adding something along those lines. That's a situation I can live with as well. The discussion of course could continue, but it isn't apparent that it will be productive in the sense of leading to a consensus on this matter. things might well remain that way for some time. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 19:38, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
Most important: Yedioth Ahronoth, out of 8 pages with thousands of words on the murder, the murdered, their families, the clashes over the whole city, mentions Goldblum only in the context already given above, of the Terrorist Kach organization spokesman who claimed that his men hit the Goldblum apartment. Less than 10 words out of many thousands. Jerusalem Post has three full pages about that day, again with many reporters and many reports, thousands of words, and not a single one about Goldblum. Finally, Maariv has 3 full pages with some 15 reporters, none of them mentioned anything about Goldblum. It seems thus that the attempt to focus the Baka murders on Goldblum is highly unblanaced and with no proportion to what really happened. However, if anyone suggests to use the sentences that mention Goldblum, with meaningful and balanced quotations of his, that could be OK. רסטיניאק ( talk) 21:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)רסטיניאק
The last person to add the "neutrality" tag was Nataev, who is no longer active on this article. If there are others who believe there is a POV problem here, please speak up; otherwise the tag should be removed. Nomoskedasticity ( talk) 08:38, 26 May 2013 (UTC)