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Archive 1 (May 2006—March 2008) |
Babakexorramdin, you seem to get a couple of things wrong here. The 'main Pamiri party' in the Tajk civil war was the Lali Badakhshan, which Taheri does not even mention. A 'Talysh nationalist movement' he does not mention either; he is talking about Sunni Taleshi groups. But even if Taheri stated that the Talysh are invaders from Mars - CreazySuit is right: as long as this would go unnoticed elsewhere, it would not belong here (see WP:OR). -- Ankimai ( talk) 19:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I said My name is Kamran. All information is provided there already. It is simple what I say: I cite from Amir taheri's article, and then I refer to the reality. I do not put interpretations there, it is up to the reader, so it is by no means an Original research. Plus I did not wrote ""The Taleshi Sunnis are pro-Russian and anti-American" while the Talysh people are actually Shia. " Please read the edit history. I once wrote something and then one editor said that this way it seems like OR, then I rephrased it in a way which was no OR. -- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 09:28, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
As for the rest. Only a negligible part of Talysh in some mountaineous villages in Iran are Sunni, while the predominant majority of talysh in the plains of republic of Azerbaijan are Shia. He probably refers to Hummatov/Humbatov movement. Also he was shiite. You can read about his movement and his people oin UNPO.org. About the Pamiri: they are Ismaili. They are Shiites with 7 saints unlike the twelvers in Iran. I think no one wrote something to criticize Taheri, because it is not worth it. Usually bad articles do not get much critics.-- Babakexorramdin ( talk)
In a 29 March 2008 article, Taheri states that the the Shia Iranian Government supports Sunni groups such as Al Qaeda. Under Sunni groups, Taheri mentiones the Talysh nationalist movement in the republic of Azerbaijan the Rastakhiz party in Tajikistan [1]. In fact the Talysh nationalist movement is a Shia-dominated group as the Talysh are predominantly Shia. [2] Rastakhiz ( Islamic Renaissance Party) was incorported into the United Tajik Opposition (UTO) was an amalgam of nationalist and Islamist parties and movements. The war's greatest destruction and toll in civilian deaths was in the south, where Kuliabis and their allies conducted campaigns of "ethnic cleansing" against local residents of Gharmi and Pamiri origin. The height of hostilities occurred between 1992 and 1993 and pitted Kulyabi militias against an array of groups, including militants from the Islamic Renaissance Party (IRP) and ethnic minority Pamiris from Gorno-Badakhshan. In large part due to the foreign support they received, the Kulyabi militias were able to soundly defeat opposition forces and went on what has been described by Human Rights Watch as an ethnic cleansing campaign against Pamiris and Garmis. [3] The Pamiri People are Ismali Shiites. [4] In fact Iran does not support the Sunni movement of Tajikistan and is instead betting on a stabilized country linked to it by Persian culture. Iran Iran and Russia, the most important foreign powers in the country, had developed common interests and Iran needs to preserve its cooperative relationship with Russia. Especially after the rise to power in Afghanistan of the mainly Pashtun Islamic Movement of Taliban (Islamic students) with Pakistani and Saudi support, Russia, Iran, and Uzbekistan became even more alarmed about the situation there. All were in different ways aiding the non-Pashtun (Tajik, Uzbek, and Shia Hazara) forces resisting the Taliban in north Afghanistan. Iran and Russia also had similar interests in the Caspian Sea, in limiting Western involvement in Central Asia, and in increasing their leverage over Afghanistan. [5] The Taliban, Al Qaeda's ally, and are mortal enemies. Shi’ite Iran nearly went to war against the Taliban after the massacre of Afghan Shi’ites and nine Iranian diplomats in Mazar-e-Sharif in 1998. [6]
I wrote this. It took me so much time and I hope noone again delets this.-- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 22:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
It would be helpful to find critical articles towards Taheri. However it is not my style to attack people personally. I only bring counter evidence without interpretations. An encyclopedia is mainly descriptive but it should contain relevant material and the sources and counterfacts I provided fit perfectly in that section that calls Amir Taheri a controversial writer. -- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 09:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I have not undone your edits and redone mine yet. I want to let you react but I strongly feel that you act very biased about this and try to protect this individual. I know that there is much politics involved in editings here, but the task of encyclopedians is to bring facts and counterfacts without any biases, what I did fits totally in that picture and I think you treat me very harshly. Nothing personal, but more my edits. I spent so much time on it-- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 09:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
References
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
I want to thank Ursasapien for his cooperation. As for Tirip: He has profound knowledge about the Shia and especially the Alevi groups. It is not my job to reveal his idenitity and I think it is against the Wikipedia's rules. One more thing is that you wrote that Taheri calls the Alawite -led Syrian Government a Sunni entity. Again very wrong. Alawite/ Alawi, Alevi, Alevit etc... are Shia, however Syria is a predominantly Sunni country.-- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 10:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I have removed this section because I didn't understand how the claim was controversial. It just gave a history of some conflicts and said one group labelled as Sunni was Shia - or some such. Much of it seemed irrelevant. Perhaps if someone wants to have the subject discussed they could identify better what exactly the problem was? Getting Sunni and Shia wrong is hardly a point of controversy that warrants mention here. John Smith's ( talk) 18:16, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
After perusing BLP, my understanding is that the article as a whole has to be "balanced" and it would seem that one relatively minor incident, the Iranian sumptuary law, and one hit piece from The Nation magazine should comprise nearly 2/3rds of the article. Pecker Checker ( talk) 13:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
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Such drivel. Probably the most erudite Iranian expatriate writing today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.54.226.6 ( talk) 04:09, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
So basically according to this section, this guy is definitely a fraud, but at the same time his worthless testimony has been used to discredit Seymour Hersh, shame on! 2607:FEA8:1C20:6E:8186:896A:D44E:72C3 ( talk) 05:03, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
"Taheri's PR agent Eliana Benador defended his story. "Benador explained that, when it comes to Iran, accuracy is 'a luxury...As much as being accurate is important, in the end it's important to side with what's right. What's wrong is siding with the terrorists.'"[2]"
According to this quote in the article, Taheri's agent totally lacks moral compass, embarrassing! 2607:FEA8:1C20:6E:8186:896A:D44E:72C3 ( talk) 05:09, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Amir Taheri article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
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Archives: 1 |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Archive 1 (May 2006—March 2008) |
Babakexorramdin, you seem to get a couple of things wrong here. The 'main Pamiri party' in the Tajk civil war was the Lali Badakhshan, which Taheri does not even mention. A 'Talysh nationalist movement' he does not mention either; he is talking about Sunni Taleshi groups. But even if Taheri stated that the Talysh are invaders from Mars - CreazySuit is right: as long as this would go unnoticed elsewhere, it would not belong here (see WP:OR). -- Ankimai ( talk) 19:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I said My name is Kamran. All information is provided there already. It is simple what I say: I cite from Amir taheri's article, and then I refer to the reality. I do not put interpretations there, it is up to the reader, so it is by no means an Original research. Plus I did not wrote ""The Taleshi Sunnis are pro-Russian and anti-American" while the Talysh people are actually Shia. " Please read the edit history. I once wrote something and then one editor said that this way it seems like OR, then I rephrased it in a way which was no OR. -- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 09:28, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
As for the rest. Only a negligible part of Talysh in some mountaineous villages in Iran are Sunni, while the predominant majority of talysh in the plains of republic of Azerbaijan are Shia. He probably refers to Hummatov/Humbatov movement. Also he was shiite. You can read about his movement and his people oin UNPO.org. About the Pamiri: they are Ismaili. They are Shiites with 7 saints unlike the twelvers in Iran. I think no one wrote something to criticize Taheri, because it is not worth it. Usually bad articles do not get much critics.-- Babakexorramdin ( talk)
In a 29 March 2008 article, Taheri states that the the Shia Iranian Government supports Sunni groups such as Al Qaeda. Under Sunni groups, Taheri mentiones the Talysh nationalist movement in the republic of Azerbaijan the Rastakhiz party in Tajikistan [1]. In fact the Talysh nationalist movement is a Shia-dominated group as the Talysh are predominantly Shia. [2] Rastakhiz ( Islamic Renaissance Party) was incorported into the United Tajik Opposition (UTO) was an amalgam of nationalist and Islamist parties and movements. The war's greatest destruction and toll in civilian deaths was in the south, where Kuliabis and their allies conducted campaigns of "ethnic cleansing" against local residents of Gharmi and Pamiri origin. The height of hostilities occurred between 1992 and 1993 and pitted Kulyabi militias against an array of groups, including militants from the Islamic Renaissance Party (IRP) and ethnic minority Pamiris from Gorno-Badakhshan. In large part due to the foreign support they received, the Kulyabi militias were able to soundly defeat opposition forces and went on what has been described by Human Rights Watch as an ethnic cleansing campaign against Pamiris and Garmis. [3] The Pamiri People are Ismali Shiites. [4] In fact Iran does not support the Sunni movement of Tajikistan and is instead betting on a stabilized country linked to it by Persian culture. Iran Iran and Russia, the most important foreign powers in the country, had developed common interests and Iran needs to preserve its cooperative relationship with Russia. Especially after the rise to power in Afghanistan of the mainly Pashtun Islamic Movement of Taliban (Islamic students) with Pakistani and Saudi support, Russia, Iran, and Uzbekistan became even more alarmed about the situation there. All were in different ways aiding the non-Pashtun (Tajik, Uzbek, and Shia Hazara) forces resisting the Taliban in north Afghanistan. Iran and Russia also had similar interests in the Caspian Sea, in limiting Western involvement in Central Asia, and in increasing their leverage over Afghanistan. [5] The Taliban, Al Qaeda's ally, and are mortal enemies. Shi’ite Iran nearly went to war against the Taliban after the massacre of Afghan Shi’ites and nine Iranian diplomats in Mazar-e-Sharif in 1998. [6]
I wrote this. It took me so much time and I hope noone again delets this.-- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 22:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
It would be helpful to find critical articles towards Taheri. However it is not my style to attack people personally. I only bring counter evidence without interpretations. An encyclopedia is mainly descriptive but it should contain relevant material and the sources and counterfacts I provided fit perfectly in that section that calls Amir Taheri a controversial writer. -- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 09:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
I have not undone your edits and redone mine yet. I want to let you react but I strongly feel that you act very biased about this and try to protect this individual. I know that there is much politics involved in editings here, but the task of encyclopedians is to bring facts and counterfacts without any biases, what I did fits totally in that picture and I think you treat me very harshly. Nothing personal, but more my edits. I spent so much time on it-- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 09:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
References
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)
I want to thank Ursasapien for his cooperation. As for Tirip: He has profound knowledge about the Shia and especially the Alevi groups. It is not my job to reveal his idenitity and I think it is against the Wikipedia's rules. One more thing is that you wrote that Taheri calls the Alawite -led Syrian Government a Sunni entity. Again very wrong. Alawite/ Alawi, Alevi, Alevit etc... are Shia, however Syria is a predominantly Sunni country.-- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 10:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
I have removed this section because I didn't understand how the claim was controversial. It just gave a history of some conflicts and said one group labelled as Sunni was Shia - or some such. Much of it seemed irrelevant. Perhaps if someone wants to have the subject discussed they could identify better what exactly the problem was? Getting Sunni and Shia wrong is hardly a point of controversy that warrants mention here. John Smith's ( talk) 18:16, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
After perusing BLP, my understanding is that the article as a whole has to be "balanced" and it would seem that one relatively minor incident, the Iranian sumptuary law, and one hit piece from The Nation magazine should comprise nearly 2/3rds of the article. Pecker Checker ( talk) 13:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
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Such drivel. Probably the most erudite Iranian expatriate writing today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.54.226.6 ( talk) 04:09, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
So basically according to this section, this guy is definitely a fraud, but at the same time his worthless testimony has been used to discredit Seymour Hersh, shame on! 2607:FEA8:1C20:6E:8186:896A:D44E:72C3 ( talk) 05:03, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
"Taheri's PR agent Eliana Benador defended his story. "Benador explained that, when it comes to Iran, accuracy is 'a luxury...As much as being accurate is important, in the end it's important to side with what's right. What's wrong is siding with the terrorists.'"[2]"
According to this quote in the article, Taheri's agent totally lacks moral compass, embarrassing! 2607:FEA8:1C20:6E:8186:896A:D44E:72C3 ( talk) 05:09, 14 February 2023 (UTC)