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This article should be moved to United States civil religion as America covers a much greater region than the US and this article does not, SqueakBox 22:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I look forward to your edits in this article. It is rather new, and I hope to get more people editing this article.22:23, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay, dont know how confident I feel to edit this as I know almost nothing about US society, unfortunately there is no real translation for the word American, as wikipedia has abundantly shown me, SqueakBox 23:56, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
The first sentence does not quite make sense in its present form because of the word essays:
American civil religion is a term coined by sociologist Robert Bellah in 1967, since becoming one of the most debated and controversial essays in United States sociology.
Basically the sentence says the term became one of the most debated and controversial essays. I don't know anything about this topic, but from a grammatical poit of view, I would suggest soemthing like:
American civil religion is a term coined by sociologist Robert Bellah in 1967. It sparked one of the most debated and controversial debates in United States sociology.
or
American civil religion is a term coined by sociologist Robert Bellah in 1967 in the essay titled XXX, which since became one of the most debated and controversial essays in United States sociology.
Someone who knows about this topic please fix this first sentence! Thanks JenLouise 06:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
This is basically a non-article. There's not much information, and what's there is almost incomprehensible. It's also not quite notable enough to have its own article. Therefore, I've nominated it for deletion. Graymornings 08:06, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
The "three periods" section is poorly-written and has a couple of sentences that don't go anywhere, such as:
When "the spiritual glue that had bound the nation together in previous years had simply collapsed".
It's not exactly a sentence and the punctuation is a bit off. I don't really know how to fix the section, though, as I'm not sure exactly what it's supposed to mean. At the very least it's an unsourced quote. Graymornings 02:28, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think it's "appaling" [sic] to recommend the article for deletion. However, I'm not going to put it back on if you don't feel it's necessary. Still, I question your ability to edit this page effectively if you can't use basic spelling, punctuation, and grammar. The sentence I mentioned was not the only typo on the page -- still isn't, by the way, though I doubt you know where the rest are. You seem to have taken "ownership" of the article, which Wikipedia does not recommend. To put it bluntly, you're taking criticism of the article too personally. It's not about you; it's about the content. At the very least, I'm putting a cleanup tag on it. I don't know enough about the subject to do an in-depth edit (not to mention a proofread), but an objective person with basic English skills needs to edit the article. Graymornings 05:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
You have an entire section with evidence supporting Bellah but nothing about controversy or criticisms - I'm sitting here in religious studies class and my teacher is talking about how his stuff has come under criticism lately, but I get here and all I see are an explanation of the ideas and then support for them. How can you have support and not criticism? Kuronue | Talk 16:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Minor technical point, this is a circumstance in which WP:MERGE provides better guidance than WP:PROD. The same editor who created the article agreed the next day that it shouldn't exist. The article being new was unlikely to have attractd much attention outside the small circle of us dealing with the US Constitution article, thus there was little danger of dissent but a Discussion page was generated. Quicker action and better result in such cases if the article, despite the brevity of its independent existence, is reduced to a redirect with the discussion page preserved, rather than go through the deletion process which takes time and seeks opinions from other editors who have other things to do. Jim.henderson ( talk) 12:55, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
- "American civil religion" can be expanded to address a larger scope. The concept is broadly understood and widely used in philosophy, history, political science, sociology and religion. Note that WP style already renders "civic religion" to "civil religion". A search redirects to "civil religion". So, it is found at Civil religion and American civil religion.
- The descriptive concept as developed in sociology is found in Bellah and Herberg. The prescriptive "Civic religion" is from the ancient Roman republic and Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Social Contract. See the general concepts of tolerance, republicanism, civic virtue, democracy and equality. Additional writers include Erasmus, Locke, Montesquieu, Kant.
- Attacked elsewhere as "contrived", the concept is that there can be group identity and several levels of social cohesion and concerted action in a large aggregate of population where there is a common ethos. Of course, all sense of human connectedness and commonality is "contrived" in the meaning developed by Sartre and the existentialists. On the other hand, it seems that nation-states may be with us for now, and the U.S. is among them. If people act like a "nation", there is such a thing as a "nation" and they are one. A rose by any other name, etc., etc. "Civic religion", likewise. Can the article here be usefully expanded for encyclopedic purposes, including merging "US Constitution as civic religion" into it as a section or as a sub-section of the prescriptive part? TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 13:13, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Just a note to say that the section being dropped was contributed by another user and took time to write, and decisions to move it here were based on a long length of United States Constitution as part of a project to slim the main article back down. If the chopped section does not belong in this article, maybe it should have its own article or be included elsewhere? Or else it could be edited or trimmed in a way so that it fits in with this article? My concern is that Wikipedia needs to keep good contributors like the person or persons who wrote this section, and that chopping an entire section risks alienating them.-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 16:40, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Savidan edits without discussion to suppress an item in "further reading". Since this article is not entirely "constitutionalized", no wiki-reader should have link access from this page to an article on the United States Constitution.
According to the first sentence, "American civil religion is a sociological theory that there exists a nonsectarian religious faith in the United States with sacred symbols drawn from national history." So far, so good. But throughout the article I'm overwhelmed by the many references to the simple mixing of religious and political activity-- basically either politicians making references to God, or religious leaders making references to events in American history. If these examples elucidate American civil religion, someone should explain how. Otherwise, someone should remove them. As I understand it, the pledge of allegiance (especially *without* the "under God" clause) seems like one of the best examples of American civil religion. 208.68.128.90 ( talk) 20:03, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
I thought because of this Abraham Lincoln cultural depictions is somewhat of Cult of personality. The weirdest example is even as a Vampire Hunter. I found him here, so need for further additions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.168.42.20 ( talk) 12:57, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
It would be nice to have a Native American viewpoint, though I can't supply one. Allmedia ( talk) 22:33, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
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Seventh Day Adventists are not the most notable "heretics" when it comes to American civil religion. They may tend toward pacifism but they do believe in patriotism and salute the flag (see http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1994-11-23/news/9411231052_1_seventh-day-adventist-church-adventist-christian-salute-the-flag). The clearest "heretics" would be Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not serve in the military or government, salute the flag, or take official oaths. Jehovah's Kingdom supersedes all else to them. I think this paragraph should be edited to reflect this.
I restored a much earlier version of this article intro. Over the years, So much unnecessary scientific jargon was added to a fairly straightforward and easy to understand concept. Infinitepeace ( talk) 05:06, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
I haven't seen anything written about this so it's not possible to put it into the wiki page. But my sense of Trump is that one of the things he managed to do is take some of the American civil religion around himself and putting himself in it as a figure trying to protect that religion. In some ways others would thusly view him as an antichrist of the religion which would inspire virulent hatred against him or passionate following for him him depending on their viewpoint. Ergzay ( talk) 06:15, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
This is the
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American civil religion article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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This article should be moved to United States civil religion as America covers a much greater region than the US and this article does not, SqueakBox 22:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I look forward to your edits in this article. It is rather new, and I hope to get more people editing this article.22:23, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay, dont know how confident I feel to edit this as I know almost nothing about US society, unfortunately there is no real translation for the word American, as wikipedia has abundantly shown me, SqueakBox 23:56, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
The first sentence does not quite make sense in its present form because of the word essays:
American civil religion is a term coined by sociologist Robert Bellah in 1967, since becoming one of the most debated and controversial essays in United States sociology.
Basically the sentence says the term became one of the most debated and controversial essays. I don't know anything about this topic, but from a grammatical poit of view, I would suggest soemthing like:
American civil religion is a term coined by sociologist Robert Bellah in 1967. It sparked one of the most debated and controversial debates in United States sociology.
or
American civil religion is a term coined by sociologist Robert Bellah in 1967 in the essay titled XXX, which since became one of the most debated and controversial essays in United States sociology.
Someone who knows about this topic please fix this first sentence! Thanks JenLouise 06:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
This is basically a non-article. There's not much information, and what's there is almost incomprehensible. It's also not quite notable enough to have its own article. Therefore, I've nominated it for deletion. Graymornings 08:06, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
The "three periods" section is poorly-written and has a couple of sentences that don't go anywhere, such as:
When "the spiritual glue that had bound the nation together in previous years had simply collapsed".
It's not exactly a sentence and the punctuation is a bit off. I don't really know how to fix the section, though, as I'm not sure exactly what it's supposed to mean. At the very least it's an unsourced quote. Graymornings 02:28, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think it's "appaling" [sic] to recommend the article for deletion. However, I'm not going to put it back on if you don't feel it's necessary. Still, I question your ability to edit this page effectively if you can't use basic spelling, punctuation, and grammar. The sentence I mentioned was not the only typo on the page -- still isn't, by the way, though I doubt you know where the rest are. You seem to have taken "ownership" of the article, which Wikipedia does not recommend. To put it bluntly, you're taking criticism of the article too personally. It's not about you; it's about the content. At the very least, I'm putting a cleanup tag on it. I don't know enough about the subject to do an in-depth edit (not to mention a proofread), but an objective person with basic English skills needs to edit the article. Graymornings 05:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
You have an entire section with evidence supporting Bellah but nothing about controversy or criticisms - I'm sitting here in religious studies class and my teacher is talking about how his stuff has come under criticism lately, but I get here and all I see are an explanation of the ideas and then support for them. How can you have support and not criticism? Kuronue | Talk 16:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Minor technical point, this is a circumstance in which WP:MERGE provides better guidance than WP:PROD. The same editor who created the article agreed the next day that it shouldn't exist. The article being new was unlikely to have attractd much attention outside the small circle of us dealing with the US Constitution article, thus there was little danger of dissent but a Discussion page was generated. Quicker action and better result in such cases if the article, despite the brevity of its independent existence, is reduced to a redirect with the discussion page preserved, rather than go through the deletion process which takes time and seeks opinions from other editors who have other things to do. Jim.henderson ( talk) 12:55, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
- "American civil religion" can be expanded to address a larger scope. The concept is broadly understood and widely used in philosophy, history, political science, sociology and religion. Note that WP style already renders "civic religion" to "civil religion". A search redirects to "civil religion". So, it is found at Civil religion and American civil religion.
- The descriptive concept as developed in sociology is found in Bellah and Herberg. The prescriptive "Civic religion" is from the ancient Roman republic and Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Social Contract. See the general concepts of tolerance, republicanism, civic virtue, democracy and equality. Additional writers include Erasmus, Locke, Montesquieu, Kant.
- Attacked elsewhere as "contrived", the concept is that there can be group identity and several levels of social cohesion and concerted action in a large aggregate of population where there is a common ethos. Of course, all sense of human connectedness and commonality is "contrived" in the meaning developed by Sartre and the existentialists. On the other hand, it seems that nation-states may be with us for now, and the U.S. is among them. If people act like a "nation", there is such a thing as a "nation" and they are one. A rose by any other name, etc., etc. "Civic religion", likewise. Can the article here be usefully expanded for encyclopedic purposes, including merging "US Constitution as civic religion" into it as a section or as a sub-section of the prescriptive part? TheVirginiaHistorian ( talk) 13:13, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Just a note to say that the section being dropped was contributed by another user and took time to write, and decisions to move it here were based on a long length of United States Constitution as part of a project to slim the main article back down. If the chopped section does not belong in this article, maybe it should have its own article or be included elsewhere? Or else it could be edited or trimmed in a way so that it fits in with this article? My concern is that Wikipedia needs to keep good contributors like the person or persons who wrote this section, and that chopping an entire section risks alienating them.-- Tomwsulcer ( talk) 16:40, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Savidan edits without discussion to suppress an item in "further reading". Since this article is not entirely "constitutionalized", no wiki-reader should have link access from this page to an article on the United States Constitution.
According to the first sentence, "American civil religion is a sociological theory that there exists a nonsectarian religious faith in the United States with sacred symbols drawn from national history." So far, so good. But throughout the article I'm overwhelmed by the many references to the simple mixing of religious and political activity-- basically either politicians making references to God, or religious leaders making references to events in American history. If these examples elucidate American civil religion, someone should explain how. Otherwise, someone should remove them. As I understand it, the pledge of allegiance (especially *without* the "under God" clause) seems like one of the best examples of American civil religion. 208.68.128.90 ( talk) 20:03, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
I thought because of this Abraham Lincoln cultural depictions is somewhat of Cult of personality. The weirdest example is even as a Vampire Hunter. I found him here, so need for further additions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.168.42.20 ( talk) 12:57, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
It would be nice to have a Native American viewpoint, though I can't supply one. Allmedia ( talk) 22:33, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
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Seventh Day Adventists are not the most notable "heretics" when it comes to American civil religion. They may tend toward pacifism but they do believe in patriotism and salute the flag (see http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1994-11-23/news/9411231052_1_seventh-day-adventist-church-adventist-christian-salute-the-flag). The clearest "heretics" would be Jehovah's Witnesses. They do not serve in the military or government, salute the flag, or take official oaths. Jehovah's Kingdom supersedes all else to them. I think this paragraph should be edited to reflect this.
I restored a much earlier version of this article intro. Over the years, So much unnecessary scientific jargon was added to a fairly straightforward and easy to understand concept. Infinitepeace ( talk) 05:06, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
I haven't seen anything written about this so it's not possible to put it into the wiki page. But my sense of Trump is that one of the things he managed to do is take some of the American civil religion around himself and putting himself in it as a figure trying to protect that religion. In some ways others would thusly view him as an antichrist of the religion which would inspire virulent hatred against him or passionate following for him him depending on their viewpoint. Ergzay ( talk) 06:15, 11 September 2022 (UTC)