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I don't like it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dolphincradle ( talk • contribs) 08:06, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Racism is not just melanin based, if darker melanin has power, would it be just as possible for such melanin separation, to also come out with silly melanin based persecution? In fact genes control almost everything that we do, when those behaviors bind to a culture, or reason for mating. All BLIND!!!!! persecution, justified after the fact, should be called racism, all collective punishment, in a fair world, and then even collective vengeance against said 'original' collective racism. Nothing to do with this article, it is about the American Jews, the most persecuted group in human history, most of their persecution even denied. Yan Eggerland ( talk) 08:16, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
The composite picture at the top featuring American Jews only shows white people, thus possibly giving the false impression all American Jews are white. Maybe I could add a few non-white Jews - how about Sammy Davis, Jr. and Rashida Jones? Dante8 ( talk) 19:44, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Very well then - let us discuss. I appreciate that the page has gone through many revisions and difficult negotiations, but I think that having at least one representative of non-white American Jews in the picture is worthwhile. Personally I think one non-white American Jew would do to represent all the rest, preferably someone who is reasonably well-known, of course American, and possibly born into the faith, to counteract the idea that non-whites can only choose to convert to Judaism and are never born into it. And they needn't replace anyone- I think the picture has room for one more. But I'm open to suggestions. What do all you other Wikipedians think? Dante8 ( talk) 23:43, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Why does it have to have celebrtities at all? Dolphincradle ( talk) 18:30, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
And while we are talking about the pictures, I find (please do your own math, mine is always suspect) that 10 were born in America while 6 were not. I believe that this does not reflect the demographics of Jewish Americans, tho have not found a figure yet. In any case, how about a couple of more American born examples? Einar aka Carptrash ( talk) 01:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
Since we're making requests for pictures, I have dozens. Why does it have to be so static!?!?!? Also why have a controversial figure like Emma Goldman? Seems silly to me does the page Italian Americans have an image of Sacko & Vinzetti? Or, maybe add to the Jewish page Leopold & Loeb, if we are going the looney route? Or, Ethyl and Julius Rosenberg, Roy Cohn or Irv Kaufman? But Wikipedia does have a special way of treating Jews, obviously (anarchist repepresents them for example).
Why not instead of Bernstein, Aaron Copland? Copland had more influence.
Instead of Streisand, Gershwin?
Why not the William Fox, Schenk, Warner or Loew? These people from the Pale of Settlement, had a great effect on American industry.
Why not Jewish Buddhists, some of the most important figures in American Buddhism are Jews, who have found ways to hybridize the 2 systems, creating almost a new form of popular Judaism. Such as Glassman?
Why not one of the members of the Beastie Boys, they all at one time or another "admitted" to being Jews?
Why not Stan Lee, Al Hirschfeld, Mel Blanc?
Why not, of course, Senda Berenson (instead of Emma Goldman maybe!) or Val Ackerman? Sasha Cohen, Sarah Hughes or Aly Raisman?
Why not Fred Lebow?
I have so many others ..... more to come. Can't beat the ones that I mentioned. Yan Eggerland ( talk) 08:16, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
copied from my talk page Hmains ( talk) 02:54, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
OK, I'm game. Clear up my supposed misunderstanding as to why the article for American Jews belongs in Category:Middle Eastern American. What is it about categories and world geography that I'm supposedly confused about? Alansohn ( talk) 19:08, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
All Israeli Americans belong in Category:Middle Eastern Americans; all American Jews do not and, as such, Category:Middle Eastern Americans does not belong in this article. American Jews are not listed (and do not belong) in Template:Middle Eastern American, which was the only argument for including it in the article for American Jews. There might be a tenuous argument that the category belongs in this article if there were some justifiable connection, but none exists. Alansohn ( talk) 03:43, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Does anyone have any objection to removing this category from the article? Alansohn ( talk) 19:40, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Please stop, this discussion is getting really, really weird. Talk pages are not supposed to be forums of opinions of individuals and how they view themselves in real life. Yuvn86 ( talk) 18:43, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
Raving lunatic | |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | |
Okay. I'm getting sick and tired of these stupid pictures of American Jews. What the hell are these sad , dull pictures? LOL Is this how we Jews are gonna honor our achievements? I'm a Jew from an Ashkenazi mother and Scots-Irish backround from my father. And I gotta say that I'm not proud of the current Wikipedia pictures. So I've already layed down the foundation from some acceptable Jewish figures. I want the American Jewish ethnicity to AMAZE. When I'm gonna go on Wikipedia and see the people we represent -- everybody should be like WOWWW. How can such a small nation REPRESENT SO MUCH GOOD, COLOR, SO MUCH LIGHT, SO MUCH BLESSINGS . I want our achievements to be A SLAP IN THE FACE to all the ignorant people out there. You know what the Talmud says my dear Jews Success is the greatest revenge but I can't do this by myself. Because I don't know how to get the damn authorization for the pictures . I'M PRETTY SURE THAT AT LEAST ONE OF YOU IN HERE HAS THE ABILITY TO DO IT. TAKE YOUR TIME MY FELLOWS. BUT ONE THING FOR SURE , TWO THINGS FOR CERTAIN -- THE CURRENT AMERICAN JEW PICTURES ARE UNACCEPTABLE IN RELEVANCE TO THE AMOUNT OF CONTRIBUTIONS WE REPRESENT IN AMERICA.
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image = 1st row:
Haym Salomon •
Uriah Levy•
Washington Bartlett•
Benjamin Cardozo•
Emma Lazarus
Goodbye — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.169.110.202 ( talk) 00:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
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The claim that "Approximately 7.5% to 10% of American Jews are not classified as white, generally a result of interracial parents, adoption, or conversion to Judaism" is nonsense. According to the government about 2.1% of Whites have non-White spouses, meaning that under 1% of Jews would be expected too because half of them intermarry. Most conversion occurs in the context of the(already rare) intermarriage. Adoption I wouldn't think is a big factor. The only way that makes sense is if Sephardim and Persians are counted as "non-White." Winston S Smith ( talk) 23:36, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
"in America, to be 'white' means to be the beneficiary of the past 500 years of European exploration and exploitation of the rest of the world"
This is a great example of Wikipedia propaganda. Lerner forgets to mention the role of Jews and the slave trade. Wikipedia is bound to be biased because it is written mainly by people like Lerner, by leftists. Leftist authors and leftist opinions will be considered "notable" and "reliable,"(neither of which even has an official definition on Wikipedia, it is up to the "community" to decide) and those of conservatives will not. Don't tell me to Wikipedia:FIXIT myself because liberals will just revert it. Winston S Smith ( talk) 23:36, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
The categories involving Jewish American actors and actresses are being proposed for deletion. If you have an opinion, either way, you can post your comment at: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 September 11#Jewish American actors. Liz Read! Talk! 00:20, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
Absent a comparable statistic of what percent of the population in general live in the top electoral college states, this statistic is meaningless. Removed. Zargulon ( talk) 19:22, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
The Pew Research Center published an extensive portrait of Jewish Americans (see the sections of the right side). It has pretty much all the information this article may ever need. If anyone feels like updating some of the outdated information in the article, this source is very recommended. Shalom11111 ( talk) 19:14, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
The mention of the blackpower movement in the 60s needs citation (for people that don't know what it is), if it isn't already there.
Sposer has now, without talkpage discussion, repeatedly deleted from the See Also section " Thanksgivukkah, the convergence of the American holiday of Thanksgiving and the first day of the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah on November 28, 2013." That is precisely what a see also section is for. And it relates to a wp article -- which, until and unless it is deleted, is ipso facto notable. Sposer, in his subjective POV, feels it is not notable. But the Wall Street Journal and Huffington Post and others across three continents that have devoted articles completely to the convergence disagree with Sposer. We don't let editor POV determine notability, and we don't delete references to wp articles on the POV determination that the article is not notable. And, of course, the convergence that is the subject of that article is the same as here -- it affects American Jews. As an RS pointed out.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 18:06, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
this intro in the Crime section, after something like "Jews have a long history of crime in the US" and then goes on to say (this is the part I've removed)
please explain why here. Einar aka Carptrash ( talk) 00:49, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
The only listing of the religion of Jewish Americans in this article is "Judaism."
There are significant numbers of ethnic Jews who practice Buddhism, Hinduism, and Christianity, and who are either atheist or agnostic. I understand that these are very controversial. But not liking it doesn't mean those communities don't exist. The article ought to reflect it. aliceinlampyland ( talk) 17:36, 28 December 2013 (UTC).
Then you are only ethnically Jewish. But using that definition, there are probably a billion Jews in the world, although they do not know it. It makes no sense to use that. If you practice Christianity, you are not Jewish, although you may be genetically so. It is just not logical. Sposer ( talk) 23:52, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Creating this to discuss the current reverts over the inclusion/exclusion of "that resulted in the survival of Israel" (see [1] for example). As it stands, the statement is not sources, only the following sentence is. I agree that this is a mildly contentious claim that needs to be sourced. We cannot make such a bold claim in Wikipedia's voice without proper citation. EvergreenFir ( talk) 19:06, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
What is the justification for including Rashida Jones, and deleting far more famous substitutes (who were in the infobox far earlier)? The edit summary states that the reasoning is to "show one non-white jew". This seems to be strangely racist. Since when are Jews 'white' (how do you define this term? Most Jewish communities are shown to be of Middle-Eastern origin.) and since when was it agreed to include relatively non-notable people in an infobox on that basis? On her Jewish side, Rashida Jones is not from a different ethnic group than the rest of the infobox (which is entirely Ashkenazi) and doesn't represent any particular diversity.
I think the infobox should include some converts to emphasis the inclusiveness of the category. In which case, perhaps Elizabeth Taylor or Sammy Davis, Jr.. But including Rashida Jones (over much more famous people) simply because of the ethnicity of her father is quite bizarre. Avaya1 ( talk) 22:07, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Ok if we agree that we should have at least one 'non-white' person (or 'not entirely Ashkenazi' people) in the infobox, as well as converts - we can all agree that there are far more notable people than Rashida Jones (who is primarily famous as a result of her famous parents). I would vote for Sammy Davis Jr. Avaya1 ( talk) 20:05, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
It may sound crazy at first, but I propose to replace Albert Einstein in the collage by Richard Feynman. For two reasons:
-- Off-shell ( talk) 23:56, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
The material in this new section is cited to four unrelated sources, and seems to be synthesis. I'm not sure what the point of it is. Perhaps Isinbill can explain? — Malik Shabazz Talk/ Stalk 03:15, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
that Emma Goldman (whom I dearly love) should be considered "an American" since her citizenship was revoked. This is about her picture in the collage. Einar aka Carptrash ( talk) 22:04, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
I hate discussing image boxes, but you pick Ms Jones to represent American Jews, who is she compared to Sammy Davis Jr? I mean how central is her Jewishness? Because if it is about diversity Sammy is a better pick, if it is about religious rep then he is a convert, so he is ticking the diversity box. African, convert, American, and notability. -- Inayity ( talk) 06:45, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Are Sergey Brin and Sam Harris notable and famous enough as American Jews so that they can stay in the gallery of the infobox? 182.185.59.70 ( talk) 21:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
There are often edits of this section that say that the religion of American Jews include things like Atheism and Buddhism. The religion of a Jew is Judaism. Atheism is not a religion, and Jews may follow precepts of Judaism. Those that follow the idea that Jews are also an ethnic group, which, even though there are some academics that use this terminology, is abhorrent. If that is the case, then ethnic Jews can be of any religion. But, then, you are not a Jew. The two cannot be separated. Although I did not revert the recent changes, I agree with them. There is only one religion for American Jews: Judaism, just as there is only one religion for American Catholics or American Moslems. Sposer ( talk) 13:57, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
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this sentence out from the "International affairs" section:
because it does not seem to me that "organizing labour unions, labour rights, civil rights, and feminist causes" is a particularly "international" activity. If these activities are being done internationally then that needs to be stated and adequately referenced. Also I found the tense, "had" to be confusing. Carptrash ( talk) 15:45, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
The source Pew cited that the net Jewish population currently in the United States is 5.3 million among them (4.2 million) consider themselves Jewish by religion, While (1.2 million) are secular or cultural Jews – those who say they have no religion but who were raised Jewish or have a Jewish parent and who still consider themselves Jewish aside from religion. According to same study the American Jewish population was estimated at between 5.5 and 8 million, depending on the definition of the term. Which include also 1.6 million Americans who have at least one Jewish parent or were raised Jewish, but they do practice Christianity now, and 0.4 million Americans who have at least one Jewish parent or were raised Jewish practice other religion. Many of them still consider themselves Jewish aside from religion. So we should include Irreligion, Christianity as minority religion 1.2 million or 1.6 million is not a small numbers, and the study do include them as Jewish depending on the definition of the term.-- 62.10.82.167 ( talk) 18:51, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
|Religion=
parameter of the infobox." succeeded. Maybe the editors at the articles you mention above didn't get the memo. —
Malik Shabazz
Talk/
Stalk
01:17, 4 June 2016 (UTC)while you control the article and selectively claims that Jewish who convert to Christianity are not Jewish any more. other articles acutely treat Jewish as ethnic group, and they include Jewish who convert to Christianity, The editr Sposer refouse the ethnic definition, while in the same time the article do treat Jewish as ethnic and religious group (more than half of American Jewish are Irreligion). Messianic Judaism aherent's do identify themselves as Jewish, I do aware that many Jewish refuse that, But still Messianic Judaism aherent's do identify themselves as Jewish. While we have a section about Jewish Buddhist (who believe and buddah but yet still identifying as Jewish), User malik refuse to have a section about Jewish Christians who believe in Jesus but yet still identifying as Jewish. Interesting this selectively when we want to treat Jewish as treat Jewish as ethnic or religious group.7 Many Christians don't consider Mormons as Christians, Yet most of Mormons do indefinite themselves as Christians, and in their article considered as Christian religious movement, Many Muslims don't consider Ahmadiyya as Muslims, Yet most of Ahmadiyya do indefinite themselves as Muslims, and their article considered as Islamic religious movement, I'm not argue here that Messianic Judaism is a Jewish or Christian sect i'm just saying it could be added that the Jewish mainstream do consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity, But still the adherents of Messianic Judaism do indefinite themselves as ethnically Jewish, and they argue that the movement is a sect of Judaism.-- 62.10.82.167 ( talk) 14:24, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Atheist Jews are still Jews under Halakhah, as are those who adhere to other faiths. Jewishness is not contingent on religious beliefs. While I certainly understand the fear some people have of identifying Jews in ethnic terms (as this has historically led to some very ugly behavior towards Jews), that fear doesn't make the ethnic component of Jewishness any less real. 2601:84:4502:61EA:6422:2845:41D2:9BF3 ( talk) 22:39, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Are these Nobel laureates who converted to christianity or raised and baptised as christians as Boris Pasternak, Adolf von Baeyer, Otto Wallach, George de Hevesy, Fritz Haber, Max Perutz, Karl Landsteiner, Elfriede Jelinek, Otto Heinrich Warburg, Gerty Cori, Paul Greengard, Niels Bohr, Gustav Ludwig Hertz, Wolfgang Ernst Pauli, Max Born, Hans Bethe, Eugene Wigner, and John Harsanyi and etec. count as Jewish?, because editors argue that they still Jewish. Oh i forgot Jewish who convert to Christianity do not count as Jewish unless he is famouse Scientist or Nobel laureate, then all users will argue that the Jewish is ethnic and if you believe in Jesus as Christ does not mean you are no longer a Jew.-- 62.10.87.20 ( talk) 02:22, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
3 nationalities: French, Mexican and South African, have increasingly immigrated to the US in recent years. French Jews from France often settle in and around Miami FL, due to the pharmaceutical industry. Mexican Jews either in San Antonio TX part of the "Mexodus" to middle and upper-middle class Hispanic/Latino sections of the city and also in the Los Angeles metro area, although Mexican immigration to the US declined in the past decade. And South Africans since Apartheid ended in 1994, they either move to Florida or California, they're involved in the pharmaceutical and jewelry business trades. France is currently the largest European Jewish population (outside Russia), while Jewish (Eastern European and Israeli) immigration to Germany and the UK are known, and South Africa once the 10th largest Jewish nation in the world, not far behind Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Of course, Israel became the only Jewish majority nation after WW2, replaced Poland (from 3-3.5 million in 1939 to estimates from 5,000-50,000 today) as the world's highest number of Jews.
Florida is now thought to have the largest Jewish community in the US and the world outside of Israel (estimated 2 million in the state) surpassing NY state (esp NYC, between 1 to 1.5 million in the city alone) and New Jersey ranks third-NYC metro has 2.5 million. Other states known for large Jewish communities: Conn, Mass, Penn and MD in the Northeast, Chicagoland and Metro Detroit in the Midwest, and increasingly in Atlanta, Las Vegas and Phoenix. Over 1.2 million Jews live in CA (an earlier decline in the 1980s/90s reversed in the 2000s/10s), and Jewish populations are thought to have tripled since 2000 in Colo (Denver), UT, Ore, WA state (Seattle), OK and Tex. 67.49.89.214 ( talk) 00:49, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
In the Politics section there's a statement that "As American Jews have progressed economically over time, some commentators have wondered why Jews remain so firmly Democratic and have not shifted political allegiances to the center or right in the way other groups who have advanced economically, such as Hispanics and Arab-Americans, have." While it's true that Jews did not shift political allegiances to the right as economic advancements occurred, the "source" for "some commentators" is one commentator and it's not an article that explains the factors related to this. It's an advocacy piece written in a biased way that questions why Jews stick with the "Democrat Party." In order for that statement to be justifiable, it should have legitimate sources that address "some commentators" discussing the factors related to this rather than the opinion of one person that Jews shouldn't be firmly "Democrat." I suggest that somebody find legitimate citations, since it is a real issue, but in their absence the statement doesn't belong. Hagrinas ( talk) 20:25, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
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Frankfurter, who worked for FDR, was sceptical. Xx236 ( talk) 07:51, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Areas other than New York City-Long Island-Westchester (NY), Newark-Jersey City-Patterson (NJ) and Stamford-Norwalk-Greenwich (CT). They have populations of American Jews over 100,000 (Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach, Phoenix and Las Vegas are mainly winter or seasonal residents). The 14 or 15 areas are Miami, Boston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Houston, Chicago, Cleveland, Baltimore- Washington, D.C.,, San Francisco, Detroit, Atlanta (200,000) and Denver (sizable communities in urban counties in Colorado). Maybe included on the list are Phoenix, Arizona and Las Vegas, Nevada. 67.49.89.214 ( talk) 20:02, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
The article finds Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas metro area should be among the areas on the list, as the states of Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico and Utah are the nation's fastest growing Jewish populations since the 1980s. There is Jewish history in places like Louisville, Kentucky (the Little Haifa section in southeast downtown), Nashville, Tennessee, New Orleans, Louisiana and St. Louis, Missouri. Varied in the seasons, Florida (650,000-2.5 million) itself should have more American Jews than New York State (1.8-2.5 million or 9-11% of state population) And seasonal migrations of American Jews means Minnesota, Wisconsin, Oregon and the Seattle-Tacoma, Washington metro area should have communities, esp. in the summer months, while many spend the winter in beaches of South Texas ( South Padre Island), the US Gulf Coast, the Coachella Valley in California (known for resort towns Palm Springs and Palm Desert) and Tucson, Arizona. 67.49.89.214 ( talk) 16:23, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
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We have one anonymous editor who claims Congress in 1910 said all Jews are Asiatics: In 1910, Congress approved a bill that classified Armenians, Assyrians, and Jews as Asiatics No history book listed in our bibliography makes mention of any such dramatic ruling. That's because it is a misreading of a primary source and has no support whatever from any reliable secondary source. Lots of Jews in 1910 lived in the Middle East and Congress said they were NOT to be treated like Asiatics. Likewise Armenians. Rjensen ( talk) 08:58, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
I added some more sources and revised the text, per the above request. If there is a problem with the existing version, please add more sources or revise the text. Don't just wipe the entire thing clean, because that makes it impossible for anyone interested in this topic to find anything. 2601:84:4502:61EA:456F:E528:DD7:CF11 ( talk) 02:22, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
"No one says that because it's not true." The source I provided, which came directly from the group that tried to implement this policy, says otherwise. I'll deal with the rest later. 2601:84:4502:61EA:456F:E528:DD7:CF11 ( talk) 07:12, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
I re-added one of the deleted RS and put in an expansion template. The Human Trumpet Solo ( talk) 23:00, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
I don't like it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dolphincradle ( talk • contribs) 08:06, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Racism is not just melanin based, if darker melanin has power, would it be just as possible for such melanin separation, to also come out with silly melanin based persecution? In fact genes control almost everything that we do, when those behaviors bind to a culture, or reason for mating. All BLIND!!!!! persecution, justified after the fact, should be called racism, all collective punishment, in a fair world, and then even collective vengeance against said 'original' collective racism. Nothing to do with this article, it is about the American Jews, the most persecuted group in human history, most of their persecution even denied. Yan Eggerland ( talk) 08:16, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
The composite picture at the top featuring American Jews only shows white people, thus possibly giving the false impression all American Jews are white. Maybe I could add a few non-white Jews - how about Sammy Davis, Jr. and Rashida Jones? Dante8 ( talk) 19:44, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Very well then - let us discuss. I appreciate that the page has gone through many revisions and difficult negotiations, but I think that having at least one representative of non-white American Jews in the picture is worthwhile. Personally I think one non-white American Jew would do to represent all the rest, preferably someone who is reasonably well-known, of course American, and possibly born into the faith, to counteract the idea that non-whites can only choose to convert to Judaism and are never born into it. And they needn't replace anyone- I think the picture has room for one more. But I'm open to suggestions. What do all you other Wikipedians think? Dante8 ( talk) 23:43, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Why does it have to have celebrtities at all? Dolphincradle ( talk) 18:30, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
And while we are talking about the pictures, I find (please do your own math, mine is always suspect) that 10 were born in America while 6 were not. I believe that this does not reflect the demographics of Jewish Americans, tho have not found a figure yet. In any case, how about a couple of more American born examples? Einar aka Carptrash ( talk) 01:25, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
Since we're making requests for pictures, I have dozens. Why does it have to be so static!?!?!? Also why have a controversial figure like Emma Goldman? Seems silly to me does the page Italian Americans have an image of Sacko & Vinzetti? Or, maybe add to the Jewish page Leopold & Loeb, if we are going the looney route? Or, Ethyl and Julius Rosenberg, Roy Cohn or Irv Kaufman? But Wikipedia does have a special way of treating Jews, obviously (anarchist repepresents them for example).
Why not instead of Bernstein, Aaron Copland? Copland had more influence.
Instead of Streisand, Gershwin?
Why not the William Fox, Schenk, Warner or Loew? These people from the Pale of Settlement, had a great effect on American industry.
Why not Jewish Buddhists, some of the most important figures in American Buddhism are Jews, who have found ways to hybridize the 2 systems, creating almost a new form of popular Judaism. Such as Glassman?
Why not one of the members of the Beastie Boys, they all at one time or another "admitted" to being Jews?
Why not Stan Lee, Al Hirschfeld, Mel Blanc?
Why not, of course, Senda Berenson (instead of Emma Goldman maybe!) or Val Ackerman? Sasha Cohen, Sarah Hughes or Aly Raisman?
Why not Fred Lebow?
I have so many others ..... more to come. Can't beat the ones that I mentioned. Yan Eggerland ( talk) 08:16, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
copied from my talk page Hmains ( talk) 02:54, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
OK, I'm game. Clear up my supposed misunderstanding as to why the article for American Jews belongs in Category:Middle Eastern American. What is it about categories and world geography that I'm supposedly confused about? Alansohn ( talk) 19:08, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
All Israeli Americans belong in Category:Middle Eastern Americans; all American Jews do not and, as such, Category:Middle Eastern Americans does not belong in this article. American Jews are not listed (and do not belong) in Template:Middle Eastern American, which was the only argument for including it in the article for American Jews. There might be a tenuous argument that the category belongs in this article if there were some justifiable connection, but none exists. Alansohn ( talk) 03:43, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Does anyone have any objection to removing this category from the article? Alansohn ( talk) 19:40, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Please stop, this discussion is getting really, really weird. Talk pages are not supposed to be forums of opinions of individuals and how they view themselves in real life. Yuvn86 ( talk) 18:43, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
Raving lunatic | |
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Okay. I'm getting sick and tired of these stupid pictures of American Jews. What the hell are these sad , dull pictures? LOL Is this how we Jews are gonna honor our achievements? I'm a Jew from an Ashkenazi mother and Scots-Irish backround from my father. And I gotta say that I'm not proud of the current Wikipedia pictures. So I've already layed down the foundation from some acceptable Jewish figures. I want the American Jewish ethnicity to AMAZE. When I'm gonna go on Wikipedia and see the people we represent -- everybody should be like WOWWW. How can such a small nation REPRESENT SO MUCH GOOD, COLOR, SO MUCH LIGHT, SO MUCH BLESSINGS . I want our achievements to be A SLAP IN THE FACE to all the ignorant people out there. You know what the Talmud says my dear Jews Success is the greatest revenge but I can't do this by myself. Because I don't know how to get the damn authorization for the pictures . I'M PRETTY SURE THAT AT LEAST ONE OF YOU IN HERE HAS THE ABILITY TO DO IT. TAKE YOUR TIME MY FELLOWS. BUT ONE THING FOR SURE , TWO THINGS FOR CERTAIN -- THE CURRENT AMERICAN JEW PICTURES ARE UNACCEPTABLE IN RELEVANCE TO THE AMOUNT OF CONTRIBUTIONS WE REPRESENT IN AMERICA.
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image = 1st row:
Haym Salomon •
Uriah Levy•
Washington Bartlett•
Benjamin Cardozo•
Emma Lazarus
Goodbye — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.169.110.202 ( talk) 00:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
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The claim that "Approximately 7.5% to 10% of American Jews are not classified as white, generally a result of interracial parents, adoption, or conversion to Judaism" is nonsense. According to the government about 2.1% of Whites have non-White spouses, meaning that under 1% of Jews would be expected too because half of them intermarry. Most conversion occurs in the context of the(already rare) intermarriage. Adoption I wouldn't think is a big factor. The only way that makes sense is if Sephardim and Persians are counted as "non-White." Winston S Smith ( talk) 23:36, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
"in America, to be 'white' means to be the beneficiary of the past 500 years of European exploration and exploitation of the rest of the world"
This is a great example of Wikipedia propaganda. Lerner forgets to mention the role of Jews and the slave trade. Wikipedia is bound to be biased because it is written mainly by people like Lerner, by leftists. Leftist authors and leftist opinions will be considered "notable" and "reliable,"(neither of which even has an official definition on Wikipedia, it is up to the "community" to decide) and those of conservatives will not. Don't tell me to Wikipedia:FIXIT myself because liberals will just revert it. Winston S Smith ( talk) 23:36, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
The categories involving Jewish American actors and actresses are being proposed for deletion. If you have an opinion, either way, you can post your comment at: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 September 11#Jewish American actors. Liz Read! Talk! 00:20, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
Absent a comparable statistic of what percent of the population in general live in the top electoral college states, this statistic is meaningless. Removed. Zargulon ( talk) 19:22, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
The Pew Research Center published an extensive portrait of Jewish Americans (see the sections of the right side). It has pretty much all the information this article may ever need. If anyone feels like updating some of the outdated information in the article, this source is very recommended. Shalom11111 ( talk) 19:14, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
The mention of the blackpower movement in the 60s needs citation (for people that don't know what it is), if it isn't already there.
Sposer has now, without talkpage discussion, repeatedly deleted from the See Also section " Thanksgivukkah, the convergence of the American holiday of Thanksgiving and the first day of the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah on November 28, 2013." That is precisely what a see also section is for. And it relates to a wp article -- which, until and unless it is deleted, is ipso facto notable. Sposer, in his subjective POV, feels it is not notable. But the Wall Street Journal and Huffington Post and others across three continents that have devoted articles completely to the convergence disagree with Sposer. We don't let editor POV determine notability, and we don't delete references to wp articles on the POV determination that the article is not notable. And, of course, the convergence that is the subject of that article is the same as here -- it affects American Jews. As an RS pointed out.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 18:06, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
this intro in the Crime section, after something like "Jews have a long history of crime in the US" and then goes on to say (this is the part I've removed)
please explain why here. Einar aka Carptrash ( talk) 00:49, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
The only listing of the religion of Jewish Americans in this article is "Judaism."
There are significant numbers of ethnic Jews who practice Buddhism, Hinduism, and Christianity, and who are either atheist or agnostic. I understand that these are very controversial. But not liking it doesn't mean those communities don't exist. The article ought to reflect it. aliceinlampyland ( talk) 17:36, 28 December 2013 (UTC).
Then you are only ethnically Jewish. But using that definition, there are probably a billion Jews in the world, although they do not know it. It makes no sense to use that. If you practice Christianity, you are not Jewish, although you may be genetically so. It is just not logical. Sposer ( talk) 23:52, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Creating this to discuss the current reverts over the inclusion/exclusion of "that resulted in the survival of Israel" (see [1] for example). As it stands, the statement is not sources, only the following sentence is. I agree that this is a mildly contentious claim that needs to be sourced. We cannot make such a bold claim in Wikipedia's voice without proper citation. EvergreenFir ( talk) 19:06, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
What is the justification for including Rashida Jones, and deleting far more famous substitutes (who were in the infobox far earlier)? The edit summary states that the reasoning is to "show one non-white jew". This seems to be strangely racist. Since when are Jews 'white' (how do you define this term? Most Jewish communities are shown to be of Middle-Eastern origin.) and since when was it agreed to include relatively non-notable people in an infobox on that basis? On her Jewish side, Rashida Jones is not from a different ethnic group than the rest of the infobox (which is entirely Ashkenazi) and doesn't represent any particular diversity.
I think the infobox should include some converts to emphasis the inclusiveness of the category. In which case, perhaps Elizabeth Taylor or Sammy Davis, Jr.. But including Rashida Jones (over much more famous people) simply because of the ethnicity of her father is quite bizarre. Avaya1 ( talk) 22:07, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Ok if we agree that we should have at least one 'non-white' person (or 'not entirely Ashkenazi' people) in the infobox, as well as converts - we can all agree that there are far more notable people than Rashida Jones (who is primarily famous as a result of her famous parents). I would vote for Sammy Davis Jr. Avaya1 ( talk) 20:05, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
It may sound crazy at first, but I propose to replace Albert Einstein in the collage by Richard Feynman. For two reasons:
-- Off-shell ( talk) 23:56, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
The material in this new section is cited to four unrelated sources, and seems to be synthesis. I'm not sure what the point of it is. Perhaps Isinbill can explain? — Malik Shabazz Talk/ Stalk 03:15, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
that Emma Goldman (whom I dearly love) should be considered "an American" since her citizenship was revoked. This is about her picture in the collage. Einar aka Carptrash ( talk) 22:04, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
I hate discussing image boxes, but you pick Ms Jones to represent American Jews, who is she compared to Sammy Davis Jr? I mean how central is her Jewishness? Because if it is about diversity Sammy is a better pick, if it is about religious rep then he is a convert, so he is ticking the diversity box. African, convert, American, and notability. -- Inayity ( talk) 06:45, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Are Sergey Brin and Sam Harris notable and famous enough as American Jews so that they can stay in the gallery of the infobox? 182.185.59.70 ( talk) 21:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
There are often edits of this section that say that the religion of American Jews include things like Atheism and Buddhism. The religion of a Jew is Judaism. Atheism is not a religion, and Jews may follow precepts of Judaism. Those that follow the idea that Jews are also an ethnic group, which, even though there are some academics that use this terminology, is abhorrent. If that is the case, then ethnic Jews can be of any religion. But, then, you are not a Jew. The two cannot be separated. Although I did not revert the recent changes, I agree with them. There is only one religion for American Jews: Judaism, just as there is only one religion for American Catholics or American Moslems. Sposer ( talk) 13:57, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
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this sentence out from the "International affairs" section:
because it does not seem to me that "organizing labour unions, labour rights, civil rights, and feminist causes" is a particularly "international" activity. If these activities are being done internationally then that needs to be stated and adequately referenced. Also I found the tense, "had" to be confusing. Carptrash ( talk) 15:45, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
The source Pew cited that the net Jewish population currently in the United States is 5.3 million among them (4.2 million) consider themselves Jewish by religion, While (1.2 million) are secular or cultural Jews – those who say they have no religion but who were raised Jewish or have a Jewish parent and who still consider themselves Jewish aside from religion. According to same study the American Jewish population was estimated at between 5.5 and 8 million, depending on the definition of the term. Which include also 1.6 million Americans who have at least one Jewish parent or were raised Jewish, but they do practice Christianity now, and 0.4 million Americans who have at least one Jewish parent or were raised Jewish practice other religion. Many of them still consider themselves Jewish aside from religion. So we should include Irreligion, Christianity as minority religion 1.2 million or 1.6 million is not a small numbers, and the study do include them as Jewish depending on the definition of the term.-- 62.10.82.167 ( talk) 18:51, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
|Religion=
parameter of the infobox." succeeded. Maybe the editors at the articles you mention above didn't get the memo. —
Malik Shabazz
Talk/
Stalk
01:17, 4 June 2016 (UTC)while you control the article and selectively claims that Jewish who convert to Christianity are not Jewish any more. other articles acutely treat Jewish as ethnic group, and they include Jewish who convert to Christianity, The editr Sposer refouse the ethnic definition, while in the same time the article do treat Jewish as ethnic and religious group (more than half of American Jewish are Irreligion). Messianic Judaism aherent's do identify themselves as Jewish, I do aware that many Jewish refuse that, But still Messianic Judaism aherent's do identify themselves as Jewish. While we have a section about Jewish Buddhist (who believe and buddah but yet still identifying as Jewish), User malik refuse to have a section about Jewish Christians who believe in Jesus but yet still identifying as Jewish. Interesting this selectively when we want to treat Jewish as treat Jewish as ethnic or religious group.7 Many Christians don't consider Mormons as Christians, Yet most of Mormons do indefinite themselves as Christians, and in their article considered as Christian religious movement, Many Muslims don't consider Ahmadiyya as Muslims, Yet most of Ahmadiyya do indefinite themselves as Muslims, and their article considered as Islamic religious movement, I'm not argue here that Messianic Judaism is a Jewish or Christian sect i'm just saying it could be added that the Jewish mainstream do consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity, But still the adherents of Messianic Judaism do indefinite themselves as ethnically Jewish, and they argue that the movement is a sect of Judaism.-- 62.10.82.167 ( talk) 14:24, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
Atheist Jews are still Jews under Halakhah, as are those who adhere to other faiths. Jewishness is not contingent on religious beliefs. While I certainly understand the fear some people have of identifying Jews in ethnic terms (as this has historically led to some very ugly behavior towards Jews), that fear doesn't make the ethnic component of Jewishness any less real. 2601:84:4502:61EA:6422:2845:41D2:9BF3 ( talk) 22:39, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Are these Nobel laureates who converted to christianity or raised and baptised as christians as Boris Pasternak, Adolf von Baeyer, Otto Wallach, George de Hevesy, Fritz Haber, Max Perutz, Karl Landsteiner, Elfriede Jelinek, Otto Heinrich Warburg, Gerty Cori, Paul Greengard, Niels Bohr, Gustav Ludwig Hertz, Wolfgang Ernst Pauli, Max Born, Hans Bethe, Eugene Wigner, and John Harsanyi and etec. count as Jewish?, because editors argue that they still Jewish. Oh i forgot Jewish who convert to Christianity do not count as Jewish unless he is famouse Scientist or Nobel laureate, then all users will argue that the Jewish is ethnic and if you believe in Jesus as Christ does not mean you are no longer a Jew.-- 62.10.87.20 ( talk) 02:22, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
3 nationalities: French, Mexican and South African, have increasingly immigrated to the US in recent years. French Jews from France often settle in and around Miami FL, due to the pharmaceutical industry. Mexican Jews either in San Antonio TX part of the "Mexodus" to middle and upper-middle class Hispanic/Latino sections of the city and also in the Los Angeles metro area, although Mexican immigration to the US declined in the past decade. And South Africans since Apartheid ended in 1994, they either move to Florida or California, they're involved in the pharmaceutical and jewelry business trades. France is currently the largest European Jewish population (outside Russia), while Jewish (Eastern European and Israeli) immigration to Germany and the UK are known, and South Africa once the 10th largest Jewish nation in the world, not far behind Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Of course, Israel became the only Jewish majority nation after WW2, replaced Poland (from 3-3.5 million in 1939 to estimates from 5,000-50,000 today) as the world's highest number of Jews.
Florida is now thought to have the largest Jewish community in the US and the world outside of Israel (estimated 2 million in the state) surpassing NY state (esp NYC, between 1 to 1.5 million in the city alone) and New Jersey ranks third-NYC metro has 2.5 million. Other states known for large Jewish communities: Conn, Mass, Penn and MD in the Northeast, Chicagoland and Metro Detroit in the Midwest, and increasingly in Atlanta, Las Vegas and Phoenix. Over 1.2 million Jews live in CA (an earlier decline in the 1980s/90s reversed in the 2000s/10s), and Jewish populations are thought to have tripled since 2000 in Colo (Denver), UT, Ore, WA state (Seattle), OK and Tex. 67.49.89.214 ( talk) 00:49, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
In the Politics section there's a statement that "As American Jews have progressed economically over time, some commentators have wondered why Jews remain so firmly Democratic and have not shifted political allegiances to the center or right in the way other groups who have advanced economically, such as Hispanics and Arab-Americans, have." While it's true that Jews did not shift political allegiances to the right as economic advancements occurred, the "source" for "some commentators" is one commentator and it's not an article that explains the factors related to this. It's an advocacy piece written in a biased way that questions why Jews stick with the "Democrat Party." In order for that statement to be justifiable, it should have legitimate sources that address "some commentators" discussing the factors related to this rather than the opinion of one person that Jews shouldn't be firmly "Democrat." I suggest that somebody find legitimate citations, since it is a real issue, but in their absence the statement doesn't belong. Hagrinas ( talk) 20:25, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
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Frankfurter, who worked for FDR, was sceptical. Xx236 ( talk) 07:51, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Areas other than New York City-Long Island-Westchester (NY), Newark-Jersey City-Patterson (NJ) and Stamford-Norwalk-Greenwich (CT). They have populations of American Jews over 100,000 (Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach, Phoenix and Las Vegas are mainly winter or seasonal residents). The 14 or 15 areas are Miami, Boston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Houston, Chicago, Cleveland, Baltimore- Washington, D.C.,, San Francisco, Detroit, Atlanta (200,000) and Denver (sizable communities in urban counties in Colorado). Maybe included on the list are Phoenix, Arizona and Las Vegas, Nevada. 67.49.89.214 ( talk) 20:02, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
The article finds Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas metro area should be among the areas on the list, as the states of Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico and Utah are the nation's fastest growing Jewish populations since the 1980s. There is Jewish history in places like Louisville, Kentucky (the Little Haifa section in southeast downtown), Nashville, Tennessee, New Orleans, Louisiana and St. Louis, Missouri. Varied in the seasons, Florida (650,000-2.5 million) itself should have more American Jews than New York State (1.8-2.5 million or 9-11% of state population) And seasonal migrations of American Jews means Minnesota, Wisconsin, Oregon and the Seattle-Tacoma, Washington metro area should have communities, esp. in the summer months, while many spend the winter in beaches of South Texas ( South Padre Island), the US Gulf Coast, the Coachella Valley in California (known for resort towns Palm Springs and Palm Desert) and Tucson, Arizona. 67.49.89.214 ( talk) 16:23, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
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We have one anonymous editor who claims Congress in 1910 said all Jews are Asiatics: In 1910, Congress approved a bill that classified Armenians, Assyrians, and Jews as Asiatics No history book listed in our bibliography makes mention of any such dramatic ruling. That's because it is a misreading of a primary source and has no support whatever from any reliable secondary source. Lots of Jews in 1910 lived in the Middle East and Congress said they were NOT to be treated like Asiatics. Likewise Armenians. Rjensen ( talk) 08:58, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
I added some more sources and revised the text, per the above request. If there is a problem with the existing version, please add more sources or revise the text. Don't just wipe the entire thing clean, because that makes it impossible for anyone interested in this topic to find anything. 2601:84:4502:61EA:456F:E528:DD7:CF11 ( talk) 02:22, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
"No one says that because it's not true." The source I provided, which came directly from the group that tried to implement this policy, says otherwise. I'll deal with the rest later. 2601:84:4502:61EA:456F:E528:DD7:CF11 ( talk) 07:12, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
I re-added one of the deleted RS and put in an expansion template. The Human Trumpet Solo ( talk) 23:00, 28 August 2017 (UTC)