A fact from Amazonotrema appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 10 January 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that while most
lichens that grow on plants live on the surface, the sole species in Amazonotrema grows partially among the cells of the tree bark on which it lives?
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fungi, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Fungi on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FungiWikipedia:WikiProject FungiTemplate:WikiProject FungiFungi articles
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Overall: Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns. Sources are probably fine, but main ones list the discoverers as authors. So not really secondary sources? —
Caorongjin💬01:29, 27 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Caorongjin, I guess you need to either accept or reject this submission. I've made suggestions and you've dinged both of them. But we can't just leave this in limbo forever. It's disappointing to me that you don't consider these "interesting" enough (particularly given some of the other DYKs that regularly run), but I guess that's the luck of the draw with reviewers!
MeegsC (
talk)
16:10, 22 December 2022 (UTC)reply
MeegsC, I am assessing based on
WP:DYKCRIT (which, I see, has recently changed). I can’t arbitrarily speak about other hooks. Your two hooks, from my layman’s perspective, are 1) it got its name from where it was found and 2) it grows high. Are you saying that the hooks are “likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest”? This isn’t apparent to me. —
Caorongjin💬20:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Caorongjin, actually, you've misinterpreted the latter hook, which shows perhaps that it was not particularly well-written. It actually grows INTO the tree's tissues, living among its cells, which most lichens don't do. Most live on the surface of whatever substrate they live on. Perhaps ALT2:"... that the sole species of the
lichen genus Amazonotrema lives partially immersed in the tree bark on which it typically grows?" If that doesn't meet your approval, then I guess you should just reject this nomination and we'll be done with it. ;)
MeegsC (
talk)
21:20, 22 December 2022 (UTC)reply
MeegsC that is intriguing (and was not clear in ALT1). I have two qualms with ALT2 though. 1) From a lay reading, "immersed" isn't clear as it invokes the image of liquid. 2) I'm not a specialist in this area, but can't find in the reference where it actually says this? Can you clarify? —
Caorongjin💬11:05, 23 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Caorongjin How about ALT3:"...that the sole species in the
lichen genus Amazonotrema lives partially among the cells of the tree bark on which it typically grows?" The source says that the lichen is
endophloeodal. That's a fancy lichenology word that means "thallus immersed in tree bark". (See ref at linked glossary, if you need a ref for that definition.) Lichenologists use the term "immersed" to mean "engulfed" or "absorbed", I guess!
MeegsC (
talk)
11:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Caorongjin, that works for me. I've made "lichen" plural (i.e. lichens) and changed your "into the cells" to "among the cells" for clarity. It doesn't penetrate the cells (ie. doesn't grow into them), it grows between them. Does that work for you?
MeegsC (
talk)
23:44, 23 December 2022 (UTC)reply
@
MeegsC,
Caorongjin, and
Bruxton: Thanks MeegsC. Unfortunately, to me it still isn't quite clear enough – I think the correlation between the hook and the fact cited in the article needs to be a bit more explicit and obvious to the lay reader (and not require too much additional logic to parse). (But others may disagree.)
Cielquiparle (
talk)
01:34, 27 December 2022 (UTC)reply
MeegsC Is this the sentence that explains the hook? It's the first part of the hook that to me isn't clearly explained, except paranthetically, which is confusing. (To be fair, I have zero knowledge in this field...but I feel like the hook is very accessible and compelling...and for me, it's taking too many logical jumps to map it to a corresponding sentence.) Like many tropical, crustose lichens (but unlike most plant-dwelling lichens),[5] Amazonatrema nigrum is endophloeodal, partially immersed into the bark or stems on which it grows.[3]Cielquiparle (
talk)
09:14, 27 December 2022 (UTC)reply
A fact from Amazonotrema appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 10 January 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that while most
lichens that grow on plants live on the surface, the sole species in Amazonotrema grows partially among the cells of the tree bark on which it lives?
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Fungi, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Fungi on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FungiWikipedia:WikiProject FungiTemplate:WikiProject FungiFungi articles
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Overall: Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns. Sources are probably fine, but main ones list the discoverers as authors. So not really secondary sources? —
Caorongjin💬01:29, 27 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Caorongjin, I guess you need to either accept or reject this submission. I've made suggestions and you've dinged both of them. But we can't just leave this in limbo forever. It's disappointing to me that you don't consider these "interesting" enough (particularly given some of the other DYKs that regularly run), but I guess that's the luck of the draw with reviewers!
MeegsC (
talk)
16:10, 22 December 2022 (UTC)reply
MeegsC, I am assessing based on
WP:DYKCRIT (which, I see, has recently changed). I can’t arbitrarily speak about other hooks. Your two hooks, from my layman’s perspective, are 1) it got its name from where it was found and 2) it grows high. Are you saying that the hooks are “likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest”? This isn’t apparent to me. —
Caorongjin💬20:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Caorongjin, actually, you've misinterpreted the latter hook, which shows perhaps that it was not particularly well-written. It actually grows INTO the tree's tissues, living among its cells, which most lichens don't do. Most live on the surface of whatever substrate they live on. Perhaps ALT2:"... that the sole species of the
lichen genus Amazonotrema lives partially immersed in the tree bark on which it typically grows?" If that doesn't meet your approval, then I guess you should just reject this nomination and we'll be done with it. ;)
MeegsC (
talk)
21:20, 22 December 2022 (UTC)reply
MeegsC that is intriguing (and was not clear in ALT1). I have two qualms with ALT2 though. 1) From a lay reading, "immersed" isn't clear as it invokes the image of liquid. 2) I'm not a specialist in this area, but can't find in the reference where it actually says this? Can you clarify? —
Caorongjin💬11:05, 23 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Caorongjin How about ALT3:"...that the sole species in the
lichen genus Amazonotrema lives partially among the cells of the tree bark on which it typically grows?" The source says that the lichen is
endophloeodal. That's a fancy lichenology word that means "thallus immersed in tree bark". (See ref at linked glossary, if you need a ref for that definition.) Lichenologists use the term "immersed" to mean "engulfed" or "absorbed", I guess!
MeegsC (
talk)
11:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Caorongjin, that works for me. I've made "lichen" plural (i.e. lichens) and changed your "into the cells" to "among the cells" for clarity. It doesn't penetrate the cells (ie. doesn't grow into them), it grows between them. Does that work for you?
MeegsC (
talk)
23:44, 23 December 2022 (UTC)reply
@
MeegsC,
Caorongjin, and
Bruxton: Thanks MeegsC. Unfortunately, to me it still isn't quite clear enough – I think the correlation between the hook and the fact cited in the article needs to be a bit more explicit and obvious to the lay reader (and not require too much additional logic to parse). (But others may disagree.)
Cielquiparle (
talk)
01:34, 27 December 2022 (UTC)reply
MeegsC Is this the sentence that explains the hook? It's the first part of the hook that to me isn't clearly explained, except paranthetically, which is confusing. (To be fair, I have zero knowledge in this field...but I feel like the hook is very accessible and compelling...and for me, it's taking too many logical jumps to map it to a corresponding sentence.) Like many tropical, crustose lichens (but unlike most plant-dwelling lichens),[5] Amazonatrema nigrum is endophloeodal, partially immersed into the bark or stems on which it grows.[3]Cielquiparle (
talk)
09:14, 27 December 2022 (UTC)reply