This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Amantia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
This has no article or section in the Amantia article.
William Smith, LLD, Ed."
Amantia were originally Illyrian and then Greek, many sources say that so where are the informations about the Illyrian heritage?
So far this can't be verified. Alexikoua ( talk) 15:47, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps Amant- is a barbarised form of Abant-On wikipedia, this was transferred by @ Alexikoua: as
Amantia is a barbarized version of the name Abantia which was also used for the settlement.
Most temple architecture thus far identified in Albania was heavily influenced by Hellenistic ideas. The largest temples were variations on the Doric form. The temple of Shtyllas at Apollonia, a substantial peripteral building, and the substantial, pseudo-peripteral temple of Venus at Amantia were both influenced by contact with Greek colonies. However, it is apparent that there was also an indigenous Epirot style of prostyle temples of smaller dimensions typified by the temple of Zeus at Dodona and locally, by the temple above the theatre of Butrint, probably to be identified with the shrine of Asclepius. On wikipedia this was transferred by Alexikoua as
The temple of Aphrodite though influence by archtectural features from nearby Greek colonies it retained some indigenous forms typical of settlements found throughout Epirus.This one is a 100% wrong quote.
I found this suspicious, given that most scholars place the border between Illyria and Epirus at the Aous (e.g. Wilkes). So upon looking further, the only source for the claim that this town was in Illyria is an obscure non-English language publication "Iliria". Against this we have:
One effect was the growth of fortified cities in northern Epirus (e.g. Antigonia and Amantia) and in Illyris (Byllis and Lissus)[1]
..but rather northward to Greek towns on the Epirote coast. Here we meet with a storngly exploited region where Greek colonies had settled from the sixth century or even earlier. Epidamnos, Apollonia, Bullis, Amantia and Orikon occupy a small stretch of not very fertile coast[2]
Thus, it is quite clear that there is a consensus in modern scholarship that the town was located in Epirus, not "Iliria". Khirurg ( talk) 04:57, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
in terms of language, institutions, officials, onomastics, city-planning and fortifications Amantia displays the typical features of a Greek cityyou added here is a duplication of this part
On the basis of language, institutions, officials, onomastics, city-planning and fortifications from that era it has been described as a Greek cityalready included. And 1980s Hammond's considerations can't be generalized, but they should be correctly attributed to him. – Βατο ( talk) 12:30, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
In terms of fortifications, masonry and general architecture, language and religion
In terms of fortifications, masonry and general architecture, language and religion
On the basis of language, institutions, officials, onomastics, city-planning and fortifications
I fail to see the establishement of a Roman colony in Amantia. In fact Shpuza mentions the colony of Dyrrahium (Colonia Iulia Augusta Dyrrachinorum):
Autre facette de l’évolution linguistique, la fondation de la colonie va amener non seulement e passage du grec au latin, mais également la transformation de l’onomastique de la ville, devenue à terme presqu’entièrement latine. Ce phénomène implique a contrario l’élimination progressive du stock anthroponymique grec et illyrien.
Alexikoua (
talk)
07:49, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Tout comme Dyrrachium, Amantia fut prospère à l’époque hellénistique, ce qui pourrait expliquer le choix du bilinguisme. Ainsi, l’emploi du grec par les Romains pour s’adresser aux indigènes n’est pas seulement un geste de bonne volonté, mais un effort pour favoriser le rapprochement entre communautésdoesn't refer to Greek and Latin but to a previous era which caused the Romans when they annexed the are to use Greek as a public language as well.-- Maleschreiber ( talk) 21:39, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Therefore, the use of Greek by the Romans to address the natives is not just a gesture of goodwill, but an effort to favor rapprochement between communities. This is the exact translation, and source manipulation using fabrications about "previous eras" and other such nonsense cannot stand. Khirurg ( talk) 22:52, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Amantia's prosperity during the Hellenistic era could explain the bilingualism of the settlement in that era. In the Roman era, the use of Greek by the Romans to address the natives was seen not only a gesture of good will, but an effort to promote rapprochement between those communities.Khirurg ( talk) 23:22, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Indeed, with the exception of Buthrotum in the seconld half of the 2nd century BCE, the settlements, notably Phoinike and Antigonea, have yielded very few inscriptions, whether they are 'Greek or Latin.It doesn't even discuss Amantia. -- Maleschreiber ( talk) 23:43, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
"Tout comme Dyrrachium, Amantia fut prospère à l’époque hellénistique, ce qui pourrait expliquer le choix du bilinguisme. Ainsi, l’emploi du grec par les Romains pour s’adresser aux indigènes n’est pas seulement un geste de bonne volonté, mais un effort pour favoriser le rapprochement entre communautés.(..) Autre facette de l’évolution linguistique, la fondation de la colonie va amener non seulement le passage du grec au latin, mais également la transformation de l’onomastique de la ville, devenue à terme presqu’entièrement latine. Ce phénomène implique a contrario l’élimination progressive du stock anthroponymique grec et illyrien."The article should include only what the source reports, and Shpuza says that there was bilingualism in Hellenistic times, the rest is your WP:OR. – Βατο ( talk) 11:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves.You should provide quotes that
directly support the material being presentedfor its inclusion into the article. – Βατο ( talk) 16:49, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
directly support the material being presented. Inscriptions in antiquity are social markers of the elite of a settlement. They say nothing about the language of the population or the language of the elite. They just tell us that the elite of a region considered it a sign of wealth and prestige to use a specific language. That the elite of Amantia shifted at some point from Greek to Latin inscriptions doesn't tell us anything about the language they spoke. It tells us that they linked their personal status to Roman affairs in the west instead of the Hellenistic world in the east. -- Maleschreiber ( talk) 02:30, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
that we had Greek-Latin bilingualism in the Hellenistic era. I'm not going to discuss with an anonymous person the definition of the Hellenistic era in order to infer or not infer from that definition something which Shpuza doesn't discuss. -- Maleschreiber ( talk)
" Historians almost universally let the Hellenistic period end in 31/30 BCE, "[ [3]
directly support the material being presented. Only what is clerarly stated by the sources is to be included, because
articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves. You can search fo another source that directly support your claim. Cheers. – Βατο ( talk) 01:08, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves. Unlike you, I am not pretending to include WP:OR and WP:SYNTH into the article. Only material that is directly supported by the sources should be included.
The Periplus of Pseudo-scylax states And the Orikoi are settled within the Amantian territory. And the people are Illyrioi [Amantieis] as far as here and past the Boulinoi...
, as can be seen here
[6]. The Periplus thus describes the Amantes as Illyrian, but not Amantia itself. The claim that the Periplus is the first mention of Amantia is not found in any source and is
WP:OR.
Khirurg (
talk)
05:07, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
Hernandez (2017) claims that in the Periplus Orikos is identified as a polis placed in the territory of Amantia, the latter being regarded as an Illyrian city.– Βατο ( talk) 23:26, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
"Drawing upon earlier written sources about sailing voyages (periploi), the Periplous of Pseudo-Skylax (28–33) traces the coast of the Mediterranean and purports to be a “circumnavigation of the inhabited world”. The text was composed in the third quarter of the 4th century B.C. The description of Epeiros moves southward along the Adriatic and Ionian Seas in the direction of mainland Greece. It appears to represent Epeiros in the years ca. 380–360 B.C. In Illyria, Epidamnos and Apollonia are listed as Greek cities (πόλεις Ἑλληνίδες). Orikos is identified as a polis located within the territory of an Illyrian city, Amantia. After Illyria, the text lists Chaonia."I think it has due weight for a comment about the Periplus, after that of Funke, Moustakis & Hochschulz 2004 . – Βατο ( talk) 02:25, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
No. The toponym "Abantes" as linked to an "Abantia" is used by Pausanias, but it's not a historical alternative name. It is not used in any context in the city's life and as a historical form (attested in epigraphy) it appears nowhere. Even for the supposed Abantes alternative for the Amantes, there is just one inscription. P.S. Happy new year to all co-editors and I hope this year brings you more and more knowledge.-- Maleschreiber ( talk) 00:36, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Marjeta Sasel-Kos writes The conditions were that regions and populations captured by the Romans ( from Lissus to the territory north of Phoenice and in the east up to the Dassaretes , the Greek towns of Dyrrhachium , Apollonia , Aulon , Oricum , Dimale , Byllis , Amantia and Antigonea , and the tribes of the Parthini , Bylliones and Atintanes ) were to become part of a Roman sphere of interest, controlled by the Romans.
which Alexikoua turned into On the basis of language, institutions, officials, onomastics, city-planning and fortifications it has been described as a Greek city by historians Marjeta S. Kos (1986)
. Bad use of bibliography is unacceptable in any editing environment.--
Maleschreiber (
talk)
12:14, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
"The interpretation which I have put before you would not win the approval of my Albanian colleagues, who hold that the development of cities began in the north and spread southwards, and that cities such as Lissus, Amantia, Antigoneia and Phoenice were 'Illyrian cities'. The archaeological evidence seems to be against them. For in sites fortifications, towers gates and masonry and in the construction of theatres, odeons, temples and agoras the cities of Epirus and Illyris are indistinguishable, in the titles of the city-officials and the language of their decrees these cities are entirely Greek. They are indeed typical Hellenistic cities, such as developed also in parts of Thrace and Asia at this time. The period of intensive Hellenisation, as it is called, was relatively short in Illyris, but had a lasting influence."
"Amantia war Hauptsitz des illyrischen Stammes der Amantier, aber – wie auch die anderen illyrischen Städte – keine Polis griechischer Art." [Amantia was the headquarter of the Illyrian tribe of the Amantes, but - like the other Illyrian cities - not a polis of the Greek kind.].
Hellenistic cities in Illyris are no longer considered "Greek"says who? A single sentence from a single source will not do. Khirurg ( talk) 01:26, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
There is a multitude of sources that point that the settlement belonged geographically to Epirus, other sources point it was in Illyria and other in the boundary of those regions. The recent lead change in favour of Illyria falls into wp:POV. Alexikoua ( talk) 02:12, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
When it discusses Hellenistic times, I understand it as referring to the political spheres of the Epirote tribes and the Illyrian tribes. Geographically, it is in southern Illyria. The tribe that built it was a southern Illyrian tribe, and this was their tribal centre. Botushali ( talk) 04:34, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
"Illyrii, a large group of related *Indo-European tribes, who occupied in classical times the western Side of the Balkan range from the head of the *Adriatic Sea to the hinterland of the gulf of Valona and extended northwards as far as the eastern *Alps and the Danube (see DANUVIUS) and eastwards into some districts beyond the Balkan range. The name was properly that of a small people between Scodra and the Mati river, and it was applied by the Greeks and later by the Romans to the other tribes with which they had regular contact. Thus Illyris meant to the Greeks the southern part of the area, that neighbouring *Mace-donia, *Epirus, and the Greek cities on the Adriatic coast and islands, and *Illyricum meant to the Romans the whole area from the eastern Alps to the gulf of Valona.".
I assume this change needs a specific explanation [ [8]]: by limiting the presence of local Greek speech to the pre-Koine era (pre-300 BC) completely ignores the history of the settlement. Alexikoua ( talk) 03:45, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Hernandez and Hodges simply agreed with mainstream scholarship, the quote:Many of the mighty cities that had prospered in Hellenistic times as tribal capitals, such as Amantia, Phoinike, Gitana, Elea and Kassope, together with many other smaller satellite settlements and fortresses, diminished rapidly in importance and prestige and received little investment under the Roman Empire. These cities were among the largest in Epirus, many with theatres and impressive public buildings. At the time when they were founded, they were well positioned in the landscape to defend the territorial boundaries of the Epirote tribal groups.
Describing Amantia as an Epirote foundation is not fridge. It's also time to provide similar information by Dominguez on the issue about the background of the settlement.
Alexikoua (
talk)
02:30, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Amantia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
This has no article or section in the Amantia article.
William Smith, LLD, Ed."
Amantia were originally Illyrian and then Greek, many sources say that so where are the informations about the Illyrian heritage?
So far this can't be verified. Alexikoua ( talk) 15:47, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps Amant- is a barbarised form of Abant-On wikipedia, this was transferred by @ Alexikoua: as
Amantia is a barbarized version of the name Abantia which was also used for the settlement.
Most temple architecture thus far identified in Albania was heavily influenced by Hellenistic ideas. The largest temples were variations on the Doric form. The temple of Shtyllas at Apollonia, a substantial peripteral building, and the substantial, pseudo-peripteral temple of Venus at Amantia were both influenced by contact with Greek colonies. However, it is apparent that there was also an indigenous Epirot style of prostyle temples of smaller dimensions typified by the temple of Zeus at Dodona and locally, by the temple above the theatre of Butrint, probably to be identified with the shrine of Asclepius. On wikipedia this was transferred by Alexikoua as
The temple of Aphrodite though influence by archtectural features from nearby Greek colonies it retained some indigenous forms typical of settlements found throughout Epirus.This one is a 100% wrong quote.
I found this suspicious, given that most scholars place the border between Illyria and Epirus at the Aous (e.g. Wilkes). So upon looking further, the only source for the claim that this town was in Illyria is an obscure non-English language publication "Iliria". Against this we have:
One effect was the growth of fortified cities in northern Epirus (e.g. Antigonia and Amantia) and in Illyris (Byllis and Lissus)[1]
..but rather northward to Greek towns on the Epirote coast. Here we meet with a storngly exploited region where Greek colonies had settled from the sixth century or even earlier. Epidamnos, Apollonia, Bullis, Amantia and Orikon occupy a small stretch of not very fertile coast[2]
Thus, it is quite clear that there is a consensus in modern scholarship that the town was located in Epirus, not "Iliria". Khirurg ( talk) 04:57, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
in terms of language, institutions, officials, onomastics, city-planning and fortifications Amantia displays the typical features of a Greek cityyou added here is a duplication of this part
On the basis of language, institutions, officials, onomastics, city-planning and fortifications from that era it has been described as a Greek cityalready included. And 1980s Hammond's considerations can't be generalized, but they should be correctly attributed to him. – Βατο ( talk) 12:30, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
In terms of fortifications, masonry and general architecture, language and religion
In terms of fortifications, masonry and general architecture, language and religion
On the basis of language, institutions, officials, onomastics, city-planning and fortifications
I fail to see the establishement of a Roman colony in Amantia. In fact Shpuza mentions the colony of Dyrrahium (Colonia Iulia Augusta Dyrrachinorum):
Autre facette de l’évolution linguistique, la fondation de la colonie va amener non seulement e passage du grec au latin, mais également la transformation de l’onomastique de la ville, devenue à terme presqu’entièrement latine. Ce phénomène implique a contrario l’élimination progressive du stock anthroponymique grec et illyrien.
Alexikoua (
talk)
07:49, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
Tout comme Dyrrachium, Amantia fut prospère à l’époque hellénistique, ce qui pourrait expliquer le choix du bilinguisme. Ainsi, l’emploi du grec par les Romains pour s’adresser aux indigènes n’est pas seulement un geste de bonne volonté, mais un effort pour favoriser le rapprochement entre communautésdoesn't refer to Greek and Latin but to a previous era which caused the Romans when they annexed the are to use Greek as a public language as well.-- Maleschreiber ( talk) 21:39, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Therefore, the use of Greek by the Romans to address the natives is not just a gesture of goodwill, but an effort to favor rapprochement between communities. This is the exact translation, and source manipulation using fabrications about "previous eras" and other such nonsense cannot stand. Khirurg ( talk) 22:52, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Amantia's prosperity during the Hellenistic era could explain the bilingualism of the settlement in that era. In the Roman era, the use of Greek by the Romans to address the natives was seen not only a gesture of good will, but an effort to promote rapprochement between those communities.Khirurg ( talk) 23:22, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Indeed, with the exception of Buthrotum in the seconld half of the 2nd century BCE, the settlements, notably Phoinike and Antigonea, have yielded very few inscriptions, whether they are 'Greek or Latin.It doesn't even discuss Amantia. -- Maleschreiber ( talk) 23:43, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
"Tout comme Dyrrachium, Amantia fut prospère à l’époque hellénistique, ce qui pourrait expliquer le choix du bilinguisme. Ainsi, l’emploi du grec par les Romains pour s’adresser aux indigènes n’est pas seulement un geste de bonne volonté, mais un effort pour favoriser le rapprochement entre communautés.(..) Autre facette de l’évolution linguistique, la fondation de la colonie va amener non seulement le passage du grec au latin, mais également la transformation de l’onomastique de la ville, devenue à terme presqu’entièrement latine. Ce phénomène implique a contrario l’élimination progressive du stock anthroponymique grec et illyrien."The article should include only what the source reports, and Shpuza says that there was bilingualism in Hellenistic times, the rest is your WP:OR. – Βατο ( talk) 11:24, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves.You should provide quotes that
directly support the material being presentedfor its inclusion into the article. – Βατο ( talk) 16:49, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
directly support the material being presented. Inscriptions in antiquity are social markers of the elite of a settlement. They say nothing about the language of the population or the language of the elite. They just tell us that the elite of a region considered it a sign of wealth and prestige to use a specific language. That the elite of Amantia shifted at some point from Greek to Latin inscriptions doesn't tell us anything about the language they spoke. It tells us that they linked their personal status to Roman affairs in the west instead of the Hellenistic world in the east. -- Maleschreiber ( talk) 02:30, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
that we had Greek-Latin bilingualism in the Hellenistic era. I'm not going to discuss with an anonymous person the definition of the Hellenistic era in order to infer or not infer from that definition something which Shpuza doesn't discuss. -- Maleschreiber ( talk)
" Historians almost universally let the Hellenistic period end in 31/30 BCE, "[ [3]
directly support the material being presented. Only what is clerarly stated by the sources is to be included, because
articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves. You can search fo another source that directly support your claim. Cheers. – Βατο ( talk) 01:08, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves. Unlike you, I am not pretending to include WP:OR and WP:SYNTH into the article. Only material that is directly supported by the sources should be included.
The Periplus of Pseudo-scylax states And the Orikoi are settled within the Amantian territory. And the people are Illyrioi [Amantieis] as far as here and past the Boulinoi...
, as can be seen here
[6]. The Periplus thus describes the Amantes as Illyrian, but not Amantia itself. The claim that the Periplus is the first mention of Amantia is not found in any source and is
WP:OR.
Khirurg (
talk)
05:07, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
Hernandez (2017) claims that in the Periplus Orikos is identified as a polis placed in the territory of Amantia, the latter being regarded as an Illyrian city.– Βατο ( talk) 23:26, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
"Drawing upon earlier written sources about sailing voyages (periploi), the Periplous of Pseudo-Skylax (28–33) traces the coast of the Mediterranean and purports to be a “circumnavigation of the inhabited world”. The text was composed in the third quarter of the 4th century B.C. The description of Epeiros moves southward along the Adriatic and Ionian Seas in the direction of mainland Greece. It appears to represent Epeiros in the years ca. 380–360 B.C. In Illyria, Epidamnos and Apollonia are listed as Greek cities (πόλεις Ἑλληνίδες). Orikos is identified as a polis located within the territory of an Illyrian city, Amantia. After Illyria, the text lists Chaonia."I think it has due weight for a comment about the Periplus, after that of Funke, Moustakis & Hochschulz 2004 . – Βατο ( talk) 02:25, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
No. The toponym "Abantes" as linked to an "Abantia" is used by Pausanias, but it's not a historical alternative name. It is not used in any context in the city's life and as a historical form (attested in epigraphy) it appears nowhere. Even for the supposed Abantes alternative for the Amantes, there is just one inscription. P.S. Happy new year to all co-editors and I hope this year brings you more and more knowledge.-- Maleschreiber ( talk) 00:36, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
Marjeta Sasel-Kos writes The conditions were that regions and populations captured by the Romans ( from Lissus to the territory north of Phoenice and in the east up to the Dassaretes , the Greek towns of Dyrrhachium , Apollonia , Aulon , Oricum , Dimale , Byllis , Amantia and Antigonea , and the tribes of the Parthini , Bylliones and Atintanes ) were to become part of a Roman sphere of interest, controlled by the Romans.
which Alexikoua turned into On the basis of language, institutions, officials, onomastics, city-planning and fortifications it has been described as a Greek city by historians Marjeta S. Kos (1986)
. Bad use of bibliography is unacceptable in any editing environment.--
Maleschreiber (
talk)
12:14, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
"The interpretation which I have put before you would not win the approval of my Albanian colleagues, who hold that the development of cities began in the north and spread southwards, and that cities such as Lissus, Amantia, Antigoneia and Phoenice were 'Illyrian cities'. The archaeological evidence seems to be against them. For in sites fortifications, towers gates and masonry and in the construction of theatres, odeons, temples and agoras the cities of Epirus and Illyris are indistinguishable, in the titles of the city-officials and the language of their decrees these cities are entirely Greek. They are indeed typical Hellenistic cities, such as developed also in parts of Thrace and Asia at this time. The period of intensive Hellenisation, as it is called, was relatively short in Illyris, but had a lasting influence."
"Amantia war Hauptsitz des illyrischen Stammes der Amantier, aber – wie auch die anderen illyrischen Städte – keine Polis griechischer Art." [Amantia was the headquarter of the Illyrian tribe of the Amantes, but - like the other Illyrian cities - not a polis of the Greek kind.].
Hellenistic cities in Illyris are no longer considered "Greek"says who? A single sentence from a single source will not do. Khirurg ( talk) 01:26, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
There is a multitude of sources that point that the settlement belonged geographically to Epirus, other sources point it was in Illyria and other in the boundary of those regions. The recent lead change in favour of Illyria falls into wp:POV. Alexikoua ( talk) 02:12, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
When it discusses Hellenistic times, I understand it as referring to the political spheres of the Epirote tribes and the Illyrian tribes. Geographically, it is in southern Illyria. The tribe that built it was a southern Illyrian tribe, and this was their tribal centre. Botushali ( talk) 04:34, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
"Illyrii, a large group of related *Indo-European tribes, who occupied in classical times the western Side of the Balkan range from the head of the *Adriatic Sea to the hinterland of the gulf of Valona and extended northwards as far as the eastern *Alps and the Danube (see DANUVIUS) and eastwards into some districts beyond the Balkan range. The name was properly that of a small people between Scodra and the Mati river, and it was applied by the Greeks and later by the Romans to the other tribes with which they had regular contact. Thus Illyris meant to the Greeks the southern part of the area, that neighbouring *Mace-donia, *Epirus, and the Greek cities on the Adriatic coast and islands, and *Illyricum meant to the Romans the whole area from the eastern Alps to the gulf of Valona.".
I assume this change needs a specific explanation [ [8]]: by limiting the presence of local Greek speech to the pre-Koine era (pre-300 BC) completely ignores the history of the settlement. Alexikoua ( talk) 03:45, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
Hernandez and Hodges simply agreed with mainstream scholarship, the quote:Many of the mighty cities that had prospered in Hellenistic times as tribal capitals, such as Amantia, Phoinike, Gitana, Elea and Kassope, together with many other smaller satellite settlements and fortresses, diminished rapidly in importance and prestige and received little investment under the Roman Empire. These cities were among the largest in Epirus, many with theatres and impressive public buildings. At the time when they were founded, they were well positioned in the landscape to defend the territorial boundaries of the Epirote tribal groups.
Describing Amantia as an Epirote foundation is not fridge. It's also time to provide similar information by Dominguez on the issue about the background of the settlement.
Alexikoua (
talk)
02:30, 28 November 2023 (UTC)