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This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... Amalia Carneri was a noted opera singer. She is listed as a performer in the 500th performance of Ein Waltzertraum, one of the most noteworthy operettas by Oscar Strauss. I have posters and programs, old records and a scrapbook with original clippings.
Carneri was taken to Terizen Concentration Camp, a camp operated for notable artists and musicians. It was the site of Brundibar, the children's opera. The citations in German were from German language newspapers of the time and very enthusiastic about her performances. She died in Treblinka Concentration Camp in Poland.
Perhaps the listing should be evaluated by a German speaker, an enthusiast of operetta. ≈≈≈≈ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nancypolk1 ( talk • contribs) 22:29, 18 January 2016
The most reliable of those sources is the Neue Freie Presse. NFP has been digitized but as it's in Fraktur it can'be OCRed. Here are the relevant issues; one must go through each page to see where is the reference to Carneri (I checked July 11 and didn't find her):
- kosboot ( talk) 18:25, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Bulk of the article seems taken from this blog, which is dated November 20 2015 (before appearance of article on WP).-- Smerus ( talk) 20:07, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Hey, let's all calm down here. Let's give it a rest here for a little while. I am trying to dig up some stuff, and if I find it, I will rewrite the article so it has a bit more respectability and doesn't come off as a page from a family memory album. If I can't find anything, well, then we will have to decide. In any case, she is not less notable than Froggy the Gremlin. So Wikipedia's sterling reputation will not be so profoundly besmirched if we leave this around for a while. -- Ravpapa ( talk) 06:12, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
I congratulate the various editors on the way this article has been improved and sourced and have therefore withdrawn the AfD. I hope the remaining areas of the article which still require sourcing can be appropriately dealt with. I am not so happy with the personal insinuations made above by an editor who clearly feels that AfD debates are a matter of personal warfare. I took the article to AfD as a 'test case' after a discussion initiated (not by me) on WP:OPERA as to whether the article was notable. Such discussions, when undertaken on a consensual basis, are the basis of what makes WP reliable. I am frankly offended at having been accused as a liar and of 'poisoning the well' - but fortunately I don't expect User:MurderByDeadcopy to send me a kitten. -Smerus (talk) 14:13, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
No Austrian source has an exact day of her death. Most probably she was murdered immediately after her arrival in Treblinka but there is no proof for this. The date of her death, which I removed, most probably stems from this source: [3]. Please note: This is another Amalia Pollak, born in 1858, who died in Theresienstadt on July 2, 1943.-- Meister und Margarita ( talk) 01:19, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
The article contains a long list headed 'News clippings', with no indication as to the contents or nature of these clippings. It is not possible to consult these online or at most libraries (unless perhaps in Austria or Germany). Can I suggest that, if this is section is to be retained, it is prefaced by some explanation, provided by whoever has created the list - maybe 'Reviews of performances by Carneri are to be found in....' or 'References to performances by Carneri can be found in....'(or whatever is the case), and that the header of the section is changed accordingly (to 'Reviews' or whatever). Otherwise the section has no function and should be deleted.-- Smerus ( talk) 09:04, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
de:Wikipedia_Diskussion:Hauptseite/Schon_gewusst#Vorschlag:_Amalia_Carneri_.2818._Februar_.29. @ Yngvadottir: Told ya ;) @ Meister und Margarita: - if there is a feedback about a Stolperstein for Carneri (so far imho none existant), that would be worth while a small article in the WP:Kurier/Wikipedia_Signpost in both wikis. Polentarion Talk 23:43, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 26 January 2016. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... Amalia Carneri was a noted opera singer. She is listed as a performer in the 500th performance of Ein Waltzertraum, one of the most noteworthy operettas by Oscar Strauss. I have posters and programs, old records and a scrapbook with original clippings.
Carneri was taken to Terizen Concentration Camp, a camp operated for notable artists and musicians. It was the site of Brundibar, the children's opera. The citations in German were from German language newspapers of the time and very enthusiastic about her performances. She died in Treblinka Concentration Camp in Poland.
Perhaps the listing should be evaluated by a German speaker, an enthusiast of operetta. ≈≈≈≈ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nancypolk1 ( talk • contribs) 22:29, 18 January 2016
The most reliable of those sources is the Neue Freie Presse. NFP has been digitized but as it's in Fraktur it can'be OCRed. Here are the relevant issues; one must go through each page to see where is the reference to Carneri (I checked July 11 and didn't find her):
- kosboot ( talk) 18:25, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Bulk of the article seems taken from this blog, which is dated November 20 2015 (before appearance of article on WP).-- Smerus ( talk) 20:07, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Hey, let's all calm down here. Let's give it a rest here for a little while. I am trying to dig up some stuff, and if I find it, I will rewrite the article so it has a bit more respectability and doesn't come off as a page from a family memory album. If I can't find anything, well, then we will have to decide. In any case, she is not less notable than Froggy the Gremlin. So Wikipedia's sterling reputation will not be so profoundly besmirched if we leave this around for a while. -- Ravpapa ( talk) 06:12, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
I congratulate the various editors on the way this article has been improved and sourced and have therefore withdrawn the AfD. I hope the remaining areas of the article which still require sourcing can be appropriately dealt with. I am not so happy with the personal insinuations made above by an editor who clearly feels that AfD debates are a matter of personal warfare. I took the article to AfD as a 'test case' after a discussion initiated (not by me) on WP:OPERA as to whether the article was notable. Such discussions, when undertaken on a consensual basis, are the basis of what makes WP reliable. I am frankly offended at having been accused as a liar and of 'poisoning the well' - but fortunately I don't expect User:MurderByDeadcopy to send me a kitten. -Smerus (talk) 14:13, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
No Austrian source has an exact day of her death. Most probably she was murdered immediately after her arrival in Treblinka but there is no proof for this. The date of her death, which I removed, most probably stems from this source: [3]. Please note: This is another Amalia Pollak, born in 1858, who died in Theresienstadt on July 2, 1943.-- Meister und Margarita ( talk) 01:19, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
The article contains a long list headed 'News clippings', with no indication as to the contents or nature of these clippings. It is not possible to consult these online or at most libraries (unless perhaps in Austria or Germany). Can I suggest that, if this is section is to be retained, it is prefaced by some explanation, provided by whoever has created the list - maybe 'Reviews of performances by Carneri are to be found in....' or 'References to performances by Carneri can be found in....'(or whatever is the case), and that the header of the section is changed accordingly (to 'Reviews' or whatever). Otherwise the section has no function and should be deleted.-- Smerus ( talk) 09:04, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
de:Wikipedia_Diskussion:Hauptseite/Schon_gewusst#Vorschlag:_Amalia_Carneri_.2818._Februar_.29. @ Yngvadottir: Told ya ;) @ Meister und Margarita: - if there is a feedback about a Stolperstein for Carneri (so far imho none existant), that would be worth while a small article in the WP:Kurier/Wikipedia_Signpost in both wikis. Polentarion Talk 23:43, 18 February 2016 (UTC)