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![]() | On 12 September 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Allegro non troppo. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
![]() | On 24 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Allegro Non Troppo to Allegro non troppo. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Sorry about the capitalization error when I made the page Esn, (though if you look at the poster on the IMDB page, every word is capital, though I think you're right), I'm willing to help expand upon this article for your project, this is my favorite movie. KingPenguin 15:45, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
“Valse Triste was paid homage to by Garfield creator Jim Davis in a set of dark comic strips known collectively as the Garfield Halloween Strips.” http://www.boingboing.net/2006/08/09/death_of_garfield_my.html 83.20.222.6 05:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
"the film's pessimistic view of Western progress (as opposed to the optimism of Disney's original)."
What about Disney's Fantasia was a view of Western progress? This whole article tries too hard to line "allegro non troppo" up with "Fantasia".—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.152.117.164 ( talk) 06:30, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Don't make too much of "the monkey in the film, which tends to kill other creatures". Don't forget the recurring motif of a dinosaur's foot stomping down, crushing the creature it lands on. Mammals and reptiles both kill to survive. Asat 05:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Can we possibly be more specific as to which "Concerto in C Major" by Vivaldi we are talking about? He likely wrote several, but two well-known concertos come to mind: the "Concerto for Two Trumpets" and the "Concerto for Mandolin". Is it one of these two, and is it the whole concerto? Also, Dvorak wrote two different sets of Slavonic Dances: Op. 46 and Op. 72. Which one is it? Classicalkid87 16:07, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Wocky ( talk) 08:20, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
Allegro (ma) non troppo (regardless of capitalisation) is first and foremost a musical tempo (and one of the more common too, not that it should matter). This article should be moved to "Allegro Non Troppo (film)" and replaced here by a disambiguation. 151.177.57.131 ( talk) 15:25, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. Both sides have more-or-less reasonable arguments here on both the capitalization and disambiguation fronts, so given the split in numbers a no-consensus closure is my only option. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 22:21, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Allegro Non Troppo → Allegro non troppo – Per above discussion, proper captialization of Italian ― Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 08:04, 12 September 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 19:16, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
both capitalizations appear in reliable sources, this would not meet the threshold for capitalisation per MOS:CAPS (and WP:NCCAPS). Cinderella157 ( talk) 02:45, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
... normally this means the title under which it has been released in cinemas or on video in the English-speaking world.This would be the Italian format? Yes, there are sources that would use the English format but there are English language sources that use the Italian format and of course, non-English language sources predominantly use the Italian format. The definitive guidance at MOS:CAPS is consistent capitalisation in sources. Limiting this to En language sources, it doesn't meet this. At Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Titles of works, it would also state:
Capitalization of non-English titles varies by language.Hence, it would guide us to the Italian format. The prevailing guidance and the evidence of mixed usage would lead us to retain the Italian format. Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:07, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Policy and guidelines back the Support position here. As indicated at MOS:FOREIGNTITLE, English orthography is only to be applied to English titles. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 ( talk) 06:15, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Allegro Non Troppo → Allegro non troppo – Italian film titles are written in lowercase (except for the first word), whereas English and American film titles are written in uppercase: this must be respected. Note: if the title remains in uppercase, it's mandatory to correct all pages where it's written in lowercase. JackkBrown ( talk) 16:46, 24 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite ( talk • contribs) 15:00, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
all English-language reference books ... are unanimous in listing such titles with English-language-style capitalization. See also Rethinking the Arts after Hegel. A search of JSTOR here shows mixed capitalisation as does this search of google scholar and this search (though a little less specific). Notwithstanding the specific guidance in WP:P&G that would tell us not to fully capitalise this specific term (ie we should not cap per the present title), the general guidance at MOS:CAPS tells us that we would only fully capitalise this if it is consistently capitalised as such in English language sources. The evidence shows that capitalisation in sources is mixed and, in accordance with the general guidance, this title should not be fully capped (ie we should affirm the proposed move). These various search results also show that non is frequently not capitalised, even if the other two words are capitalised. An argument is made pointing to some other titles and falls along the lines of "other stuff exists". On the otherhand, we see a link to Category:1970s Italian-language films (provided above) that the format of the proposed move, if not always followed, is quite consistently followed. The exceptions noted are more outliers than the norm. WP:CONSISTENT supports the proposed move and these outliers should probably be corrected. The prevailing WP:P&G does not support retaining the present capitalisation. The prevailing WP:P&G, at multiple points, and evidence providing a broader view of usage (rather than just a selection of specific examples) would support a move to the proposed title. Cinderella157 ( talk) 03:20, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 12 September 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Allegro non troppo. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
![]() | On 24 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Allegro Non Troppo to Allegro non troppo. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Sorry about the capitalization error when I made the page Esn, (though if you look at the poster on the IMDB page, every word is capital, though I think you're right), I'm willing to help expand upon this article for your project, this is my favorite movie. KingPenguin 15:45, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
“Valse Triste was paid homage to by Garfield creator Jim Davis in a set of dark comic strips known collectively as the Garfield Halloween Strips.” http://www.boingboing.net/2006/08/09/death_of_garfield_my.html 83.20.222.6 05:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
"the film's pessimistic view of Western progress (as opposed to the optimism of Disney's original)."
What about Disney's Fantasia was a view of Western progress? This whole article tries too hard to line "allegro non troppo" up with "Fantasia".—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.152.117.164 ( talk) 06:30, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Don't make too much of "the monkey in the film, which tends to kill other creatures". Don't forget the recurring motif of a dinosaur's foot stomping down, crushing the creature it lands on. Mammals and reptiles both kill to survive. Asat 05:43, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Can we possibly be more specific as to which "Concerto in C Major" by Vivaldi we are talking about? He likely wrote several, but two well-known concertos come to mind: the "Concerto for Two Trumpets" and the "Concerto for Mandolin". Is it one of these two, and is it the whole concerto? Also, Dvorak wrote two different sets of Slavonic Dances: Op. 46 and Op. 72. Which one is it? Classicalkid87 16:07, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Wocky ( talk) 08:20, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
Allegro (ma) non troppo (regardless of capitalisation) is first and foremost a musical tempo (and one of the more common too, not that it should matter). This article should be moved to "Allegro Non Troppo (film)" and replaced here by a disambiguation. 151.177.57.131 ( talk) 15:25, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. Both sides have more-or-less reasonable arguments here on both the capitalization and disambiguation fronts, so given the split in numbers a no-consensus closure is my only option. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 22:21, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Allegro Non Troppo → Allegro non troppo – Per above discussion, proper captialization of Italian ― Justin (koavf)❤ T☮ C☺ M☯ 08:04, 12 September 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mello hi! ( 投稿) 19:16, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
both capitalizations appear in reliable sources, this would not meet the threshold for capitalisation per MOS:CAPS (and WP:NCCAPS). Cinderella157 ( talk) 02:45, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
... normally this means the title under which it has been released in cinemas or on video in the English-speaking world.This would be the Italian format? Yes, there are sources that would use the English format but there are English language sources that use the Italian format and of course, non-English language sources predominantly use the Italian format. The definitive guidance at MOS:CAPS is consistent capitalisation in sources. Limiting this to En language sources, it doesn't meet this. At Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Titles of works, it would also state:
Capitalization of non-English titles varies by language.Hence, it would guide us to the Italian format. The prevailing guidance and the evidence of mixed usage would lead us to retain the Italian format. Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:07, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Policy and guidelines back the Support position here. As indicated at MOS:FOREIGNTITLE, English orthography is only to be applied to English titles. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 ( talk) 06:15, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Allegro Non Troppo → Allegro non troppo – Italian film titles are written in lowercase (except for the first word), whereas English and American film titles are written in uppercase: this must be respected. Note: if the title remains in uppercase, it's mandatory to correct all pages where it's written in lowercase. JackkBrown ( talk) 16:46, 24 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite ( talk • contribs) 15:00, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
all English-language reference books ... are unanimous in listing such titles with English-language-style capitalization. See also Rethinking the Arts after Hegel. A search of JSTOR here shows mixed capitalisation as does this search of google scholar and this search (though a little less specific). Notwithstanding the specific guidance in WP:P&G that would tell us not to fully capitalise this specific term (ie we should not cap per the present title), the general guidance at MOS:CAPS tells us that we would only fully capitalise this if it is consistently capitalised as such in English language sources. The evidence shows that capitalisation in sources is mixed and, in accordance with the general guidance, this title should not be fully capped (ie we should affirm the proposed move). These various search results also show that non is frequently not capitalised, even if the other two words are capitalised. An argument is made pointing to some other titles and falls along the lines of "other stuff exists". On the otherhand, we see a link to Category:1970s Italian-language films (provided above) that the format of the proposed move, if not always followed, is quite consistently followed. The exceptions noted are more outliers than the norm. WP:CONSISTENT supports the proposed move and these outliers should probably be corrected. The prevailing WP:P&G does not support retaining the present capitalisation. The prevailing WP:P&G, at multiple points, and evidence providing a broader view of usage (rather than just a selection of specific examples) would support a move to the proposed title. Cinderella157 ( talk) 03:20, 3 February 2024 (UTC)