This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: not moved.
Favonian (
talk) 20:56, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Alfredo Simón → Alfredo Simon – Reason: His name is pronounced in the American/English manner with no emphasis on the "o" in Simon. Therefore the article on Simon should be titled "Alfredo Simon". However,
Alfredo Simon redirects to
Alfredo Simón. That is why I need assistance for making this move.
BeenChanged (
talk •
contribs) 20:56, 12 April 2012 (UTC) orig. timestamp 20:28, 12 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Do Youtubes and so on really call him "Alfredo SIGH-mon" not "Alfredo see-MOHN"?
In ictu oculi (
talk) 04:07, 14 April 2012 (UTC)reply
No. I checked 2 news channel Youtubes and they both pronounced his name correctly. So the information in the proposal is incorrect.
In ictu oculi (
talk) 07:04, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Unfortunately, I don't think the addition or removal of diacritics can be categorised as "uncontroversial" in the present climate. IMO, this needs to go to a full discussion.
Jenks24 (
talk) 20:38, 12 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Can you present any evidence that he doesn't use the accent mark? Or someone opposed to the move present evidence that he does? –
Muboshgu (
talk) 18:17, 13 April 2012 (UTC)reply
What he uses is irrelevant. What
WP:RS use (you know, the one's that establish his notability for us to even have an article about him) to refer to him is what matters. --
Born2cycle (
talk) 01:30, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose - sorry, but until he takes US citizenship he is still Alfredo Simón, he is still Dominican, and his main notability outside baseball (regrettably) relates to the
incident in Luperón, Puerto Plata, also outside USA. As Jenks alludes to above there is an ongoing tension between "sports sources" and encyclopedic style (cf. Chicago Manual of Style etc.) on Wikipedia, but generally with BLPs, BLPs respect the nationality of living subjects, as illustrated by
WP:UE and
WP:OPENPARA. Note also that the assumption that Spanish diacritics can't be used of sportspeople if they get a green card to play in America isn't so true today - see [
the unfortunate Fox News story which is titled "Alfredo Simón, Baltimore Orioles Reliever.." and text has "1 Feb 2011 – Baltimore Orioles pitcher Alfredo Simón, right, here being ejected in a game in September, was ..." so really the normal
WP:BLP demand for accuracy trumps the fact that US sports websites don't usually respect Spanish names.
In ictu oculi (
talk) 03:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Indeed. If the practice is usage that contradicts usage in
WP:RS, that practice needs to change. --
Born2cycle (
talk) 01:28, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
If it did, but it doesn't. Please see the article which already has WP:RS which document the spelling and the lede line already reflects the correct spelling, as does the title.
In ictu oculi (
talk) 07:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose -- names should be spelt with their correct diacriticals, but it is useful for the unaccented version to exist as a redirect.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 17:47, 14 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Support -- I could not find a single English
WP:RS that used diacritics when referring to him (e.g.,
the NY Times). We should follow usage in reliable sources, not invent a "right" way that contradicts usage in English reliable sources. --
Born2cycle (
talk) 01:26, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Move to regard Born2cycle as unqualified to comment on RMs involving typography, since he has declared his extreme prejudice against, and ignorance of, the value of typographical correctness
here.
Dicklyon (
talk) 18:57, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Careful using the word "move" in a RM. :P –
Muboshgu (
talk) 20:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Just cause he does like dashes does not make him unqualified to comment on these issues. Thats a matter of personal preference.
Spanneraol (
talk) 20:09, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Not to mention that comment came a year ago. There's a statute of limitations for everything. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 20:53, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose I see no compelling evidence that the unaccented version is correct, as English language RS's don't always use them, as In ictu oculi demonstrated. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 20:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caribbean, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to the countries of the
Caribbean on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the
welcome page to become familiar with the guidelines.CaribbeanWikipedia:WikiProject CaribbeanTemplate:WikiProject CaribbeanCaribbean articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Baseball, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
baseball on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BaseballWikipedia:WikiProject BaseballTemplate:WikiProject BaseballBaseball articles
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: not moved.
Favonian (
talk) 20:56, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Alfredo Simón → Alfredo Simon – Reason: His name is pronounced in the American/English manner with no emphasis on the "o" in Simon. Therefore the article on Simon should be titled "Alfredo Simon". However,
Alfredo Simon redirects to
Alfredo Simón. That is why I need assistance for making this move.
BeenChanged (
talk •
contribs) 20:56, 12 April 2012 (UTC) orig. timestamp 20:28, 12 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Do Youtubes and so on really call him "Alfredo SIGH-mon" not "Alfredo see-MOHN"?
In ictu oculi (
talk) 04:07, 14 April 2012 (UTC)reply
No. I checked 2 news channel Youtubes and they both pronounced his name correctly. So the information in the proposal is incorrect.
In ictu oculi (
talk) 07:04, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Unfortunately, I don't think the addition or removal of diacritics can be categorised as "uncontroversial" in the present climate. IMO, this needs to go to a full discussion.
Jenks24 (
talk) 20:38, 12 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Can you present any evidence that he doesn't use the accent mark? Or someone opposed to the move present evidence that he does? –
Muboshgu (
talk) 18:17, 13 April 2012 (UTC)reply
What he uses is irrelevant. What
WP:RS use (you know, the one's that establish his notability for us to even have an article about him) to refer to him is what matters. --
Born2cycle (
talk) 01:30, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose - sorry, but until he takes US citizenship he is still Alfredo Simón, he is still Dominican, and his main notability outside baseball (regrettably) relates to the
incident in Luperón, Puerto Plata, also outside USA. As Jenks alludes to above there is an ongoing tension between "sports sources" and encyclopedic style (cf. Chicago Manual of Style etc.) on Wikipedia, but generally with BLPs, BLPs respect the nationality of living subjects, as illustrated by
WP:UE and
WP:OPENPARA. Note also that the assumption that Spanish diacritics can't be used of sportspeople if they get a green card to play in America isn't so true today - see [
the unfortunate Fox News story which is titled "Alfredo Simón, Baltimore Orioles Reliever.." and text has "1 Feb 2011 – Baltimore Orioles pitcher Alfredo Simón, right, here being ejected in a game in September, was ..." so really the normal
WP:BLP demand for accuracy trumps the fact that US sports websites don't usually respect Spanish names.
In ictu oculi (
talk) 03:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Indeed. If the practice is usage that contradicts usage in
WP:RS, that practice needs to change. --
Born2cycle (
talk) 01:28, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
If it did, but it doesn't. Please see the article which already has WP:RS which document the spelling and the lede line already reflects the correct spelling, as does the title.
In ictu oculi (
talk) 07:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose -- names should be spelt with their correct diacriticals, but it is useful for the unaccented version to exist as a redirect.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 17:47, 14 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Support -- I could not find a single English
WP:RS that used diacritics when referring to him (e.g.,
the NY Times). We should follow usage in reliable sources, not invent a "right" way that contradicts usage in English reliable sources. --
Born2cycle (
talk) 01:26, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Move to regard Born2cycle as unqualified to comment on RMs involving typography, since he has declared his extreme prejudice against, and ignorance of, the value of typographical correctness
here.
Dicklyon (
talk) 18:57, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Careful using the word "move" in a RM. :P –
Muboshgu (
talk) 20:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Just cause he does like dashes does not make him unqualified to comment on these issues. Thats a matter of personal preference.
Spanneraol (
talk) 20:09, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Not to mention that comment came a year ago. There's a statute of limitations for everything. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 20:53, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose I see no compelling evidence that the unaccented version is correct, as English language RS's don't always use them, as In ictu oculi demonstrated. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 20:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.