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Example... the reason native Indians have more problems with alcohol are because the problem is passed down from one generation to the next and the first generation was inexperienced.
There are similar problems with other drugs, for example "sniffing glue"... lots of examples where the "drug" came into existence in recent history and same pattern. Alternative reasons could be given, eg theory of groups that have high unemployment (including inner city "black" youth) more likely to be vulnerable today to drug addiction problems.
In my opinion article would be better to state as theory rather than state as fact.
Similarly stated as fact that not genetic related based on not yet finding an obvious gene. Well known that for example dogs, cats and other animals can be breed to have specific traits such as good at hunting, herding sheep, etc. Scientists may not find the exact genes that causes a Collie to be a good shepherd dog but that doesn't by itself mean that a pitbull will shepherd sheep just as well as a Collie. In similar way over many generations of exposure to different social pressures and different "rewards" for having a type of personality it is possible that one culture may on average have advantages in some "traits" compared to another.
For example if you give a horse to a "native indian" who has never seen a horse before, he may on average naturally learn to bond with it better and be able to ride it without a saddle better than average person from a city background in Europe even if both kids are adopted from birth and raised in same family.
68.151.148.46 ( talk) 18:27, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
This isn't an issue exclusive to Americans - Canadians have similar difficulties. 70.72.201.229 ( talk) 21:51, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
- Native Americans refers to the country of America. not the continents of North and/or South America. As such, any that are indigenous to Canada, are not Native Americans. Gotta be born in America to be indigenous to it. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
72.231.228.202 (
talk) 11:11, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
I propose changing the title to Native Americans and alcohol, to de-emphasize the use of the term "American Indian" which many find antiquated and offensive, and to make the title consistent with other articles regarding social problems on Native American reservations (i.e. Methamphetamine and Native Americans or Native Americans and reservation inequality). I also agree with the above post, but I feel perhaps that the issue of First Nations substance abuse should be an article of its own, titled First Nations and alcohol (similar to First Nations and diabetes, for example). Spaceboyjosh ( talk) 16:33, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
This article has been renamed from American Indian alcoholism to a name more consistent with articles about other social problems among Native Americans (i.e., Methamphetamine and Native Americans). Spaceboyjosh ( talk) 16:41, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
This page seems to speak exclusively of the problems that developed with alcohol after the europeans started settling the americas. However, there is no information regarding alcohol usage in native american cultures before the colonization. So, obvious question that should probably be answered/clarified in the article: Did the native americans have alcohol before the arrival of european colonists, and if so what kinds? -- 85.191.86.135 ( talk) 14:38, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
My understanding is that alcohol use was very rare among Native American cultures before contact. This should be backed up by research. Aztec people produced a fermented beverage from agave, but I don't know of any indigenous alcoholic beverages north of the valley of Mexico. Even Mexican tequila is a post-contact (16th century) develeopment. In the American South, yaupon tea was a popular source of caffeine and was ritually important, but there is no evidence AFAIK of alcohol use. — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 17:55, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
I Removed a reference to the rate of FAS being 70 times higher among Alaskan natives than the state average. That's a statistical impossibility, given the number of Alaskan natives living in the state. Presumably the original statistic was either "70 times higher than non-native population" or "70% higher than state average", but the link for the source is dead.-- 108.88.98.153 ( talk) 08:45, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
not sure where to ask this, but is there a similar article for irish and "hillbillies" or "rednecks" for lack of a better term? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.180.114 ( talk) 01:06, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
There is no reference in the article to alcohol abuse prevention programs and programs designed to help people go to rehab. These programs are headed by the Indian Health Services, the healthcare provider of Native Americans. I will add an area about the work done by the Indian Health Services as well as the Tribal Action Plan, a plan to better increase education and risks associated with alcohol. Another thing was to move the categories of contributing factors and binge drinking under the umbrella category of alcohol abuse because that is the most logical grouping of ideas. Under the contributing factors should go the idea of genetic makeup influence, underage drinking, while addressing both ideas of the nature versus nurture debate. This seems to be the most controversial part of the article. If I address only one side, it seems that this would not be a full representation of the entire debate. I think these changes should be made to the article to increase the detail and accuracy of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romildcp ( talk • contribs) 22:11, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
I’m really impressed by the direction you’re interested in taking this article in, Romildcp. If anyone comes to the page looking for information, by adding information about the IHS and the Tribal Action Plan, you’ve made it helpful both to people in need of assistance and people simply seeking to learn more. I like also how you’ve buffed out the article with statistics that tell a compelling story with neutrality. My suggestion is that you add more citations within your text, as well as links to other articles (such as the IHS page). I would also look into finding appropriate images or figures, if you think they would enhance the overall article. Great job so far! Khanzar ( talk) 01:47, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
The growth of the article from the initial to expanded contribution is obvious – the article now provides a more complete historical picture of the issue and its nuances. Great work! I think the article is very readable, and to improve that facet even further, you could consider adding a graphic related to the topic. I mostly would like to see the inclusion of more citations within the article, especially in sections where there isn’t a single source cited (the entire History section, the "Disease and Death" subsection). Additionally, I would examine the language of the introductory paragraphs and consider rewording it. The two things that stick out to me in particular:
(I mention these two things in particular because they are the first things a person will read on the page.) Let me know if you have any questions or how else I might be able to help you in the review process. Good luck! Khanzar ( talk) 03:06, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I liked the sections added to 'Contributing factors.' The content was comprehensive and well-organized. The only suggestions I would make are to make the content more readable rather than a list of facts and to add more citations and links to other Wikipedia articles.
MYao ( talk) 01:13, 22 October 2015 (UTC)MYao
The information you added was very useful and unique. You provided information that would most likely be otherwise difficult to obtain. My only suggestion would be more links and citations! Gilperkins ( talk) 02:40, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
This article is extremely informative! I'm impressed with the way User:Romildcp was able to tie together a lot of information- history, cultural factors, societal problems that result from alcoholism, and differences among particular demographics and groups. This article gives a very good concise illustration of how multifaceted the issue is, without losing the message in too much irrelevant detail. My only suggestions would be to add some illustrations (maybe of some of the alcoholic beverages brewed by Native Americans before colonization, if those exist), and to ensure that the statements in the article maintain neutrality. Overall it looks good! Emily.johnson135 ( talk) 00:58, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
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The statement, "there are no current discovered genetic or other biological anomalies that render Native peoples particularly vulnerable to alcoholism" is not accurate. Several genes have been identified as potential genetic/biological contributors to alcoholism, as well as substance abuse in general. See Evidence for a Genetic Component for Substance Dependence in Native Americans, Cindy L. Ehlers, PhD and Ian R. Gizer, Ph.D., Am J Psychiatry. 2013 Feb 1; 170(2): 154–164. grifterlake ( talk) 17:41, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
I marked this as dubious because the citation is from the 1900s. Rich ( talk) 02:00, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
The first journal article cited in the article (Szlemko etal. 2006) begins with the paragraph:
Opening the article by paraphrasing this paragraph, and adopting the opening line as the title, would provide a clearer statement of the topic, which would be better focused on the public health issues, with support from the historical content, which currently seems out of balance. In particular I find the individual coverage of the temperance activists distracting.
I corrected the "author list" problem with this first citation, and may do the others. -- WriterArtistDC ( talk) 03:24, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
The article contradicts itself on whether some form of genetic predisposition exists. The "Contributing Factors" states: "Evidence that these genetic factors are more prevalent in Native Americans than other ethnic groups has been a subject of debate. According to one 2013 review of academic literature on the issue, there is a "substantial genetic component in Native Americans" and "most Native Americans lack protective variants seen in other populations." Many scientists have provided evidence of the genetic component of alcoholism by the biopsychosocial model of alcoholism, but the molecular genetics research currently has not found one specific gene that is responsible for the rates of alcoholism among Native Americans, implying the phenomenon may be due to an interplay of multiple genes and environmental factors." with citations of multiple academic papers, and, somewhat later: "The scientific literature has refuted the claims to many of these myths by documenting the wide variability of alcohol problems across and within Native tribes and the very different response that certain individuals have to alcohol as opposed to others. Another important way that scientific literature has refuted these myths is by identifying that there are no known genetic or biological anomalies that render Native peoples particularly vulnerable to alcoholism." with a citation of one article in the Alcohol Treatment Quarterly and another in The Verge. The "wide variability" part is presented misleadingly, since statistical genetic differences can exist without being omnipresent or uniform. The "no known genetic or biological anomalies" part contradicts the "Genetic predisposition to alcoholism" section that precedes it, and the sources should be checked and the article changed to clearly state which of these ideas is true or scientifically supported. -- 2601:80:4580:E0E0:C582:699C:11F1:F4C3 ( talk) 19:03, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Whiteguru ( talk · contribs) 01:52, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
Starts the Good Article Review. The review will follow the same sections of the article. -- Whiteguru ( talk) 01:52, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
This is a review in progress; it is incomplete. -- Whiteguru ( talk) 08:03, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
This is a review in progress. It is not complete. -- Whiteguru ( talk) 11:01, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
This is a review in progress. It is not complete. -- Whiteguru ( talk) 04:58, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
Overall GA on Hold pending discussions and corrections. --
Whiteguru (
talk) 06:05, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
Overall
✓ Pass -- Whiteguru ( talk) 07:51, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
For example in The Way West (film) "piooneers" "gift" all their liquor to a band of indians — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:CDA0:1060:D63:CF33:F223:ECD6 ( talk) 22:56, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
![]() | Alcohol and Native Americans has been listed as one of the
Social sciences and society good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: October 22, 2020. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 January 2020 and 22 May 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Taymarshk.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 17:04, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 August 2018 and 13 December 2018. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Avocadhoe.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 17:04, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Peer reviewers:
Khanzar,
MYao,
Gilperkins.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 13:46, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Example... the reason native Indians have more problems with alcohol are because the problem is passed down from one generation to the next and the first generation was inexperienced.
There are similar problems with other drugs, for example "sniffing glue"... lots of examples where the "drug" came into existence in recent history and same pattern. Alternative reasons could be given, eg theory of groups that have high unemployment (including inner city "black" youth) more likely to be vulnerable today to drug addiction problems.
In my opinion article would be better to state as theory rather than state as fact.
Similarly stated as fact that not genetic related based on not yet finding an obvious gene. Well known that for example dogs, cats and other animals can be breed to have specific traits such as good at hunting, herding sheep, etc. Scientists may not find the exact genes that causes a Collie to be a good shepherd dog but that doesn't by itself mean that a pitbull will shepherd sheep just as well as a Collie. In similar way over many generations of exposure to different social pressures and different "rewards" for having a type of personality it is possible that one culture may on average have advantages in some "traits" compared to another.
For example if you give a horse to a "native indian" who has never seen a horse before, he may on average naturally learn to bond with it better and be able to ride it without a saddle better than average person from a city background in Europe even if both kids are adopted from birth and raised in same family.
68.151.148.46 ( talk) 18:27, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
This isn't an issue exclusive to Americans - Canadians have similar difficulties. 70.72.201.229 ( talk) 21:51, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
- Native Americans refers to the country of America. not the continents of North and/or South America. As such, any that are indigenous to Canada, are not Native Americans. Gotta be born in America to be indigenous to it. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
72.231.228.202 (
talk) 11:11, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
I propose changing the title to Native Americans and alcohol, to de-emphasize the use of the term "American Indian" which many find antiquated and offensive, and to make the title consistent with other articles regarding social problems on Native American reservations (i.e. Methamphetamine and Native Americans or Native Americans and reservation inequality). I also agree with the above post, but I feel perhaps that the issue of First Nations substance abuse should be an article of its own, titled First Nations and alcohol (similar to First Nations and diabetes, for example). Spaceboyjosh ( talk) 16:33, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
This article has been renamed from American Indian alcoholism to a name more consistent with articles about other social problems among Native Americans (i.e., Methamphetamine and Native Americans). Spaceboyjosh ( talk) 16:41, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
This page seems to speak exclusively of the problems that developed with alcohol after the europeans started settling the americas. However, there is no information regarding alcohol usage in native american cultures before the colonization. So, obvious question that should probably be answered/clarified in the article: Did the native americans have alcohol before the arrival of european colonists, and if so what kinds? -- 85.191.86.135 ( talk) 14:38, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
My understanding is that alcohol use was very rare among Native American cultures before contact. This should be backed up by research. Aztec people produced a fermented beverage from agave, but I don't know of any indigenous alcoholic beverages north of the valley of Mexico. Even Mexican tequila is a post-contact (16th century) develeopment. In the American South, yaupon tea was a popular source of caffeine and was ritually important, but there is no evidence AFAIK of alcohol use. — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 17:55, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
I Removed a reference to the rate of FAS being 70 times higher among Alaskan natives than the state average. That's a statistical impossibility, given the number of Alaskan natives living in the state. Presumably the original statistic was either "70 times higher than non-native population" or "70% higher than state average", but the link for the source is dead.-- 108.88.98.153 ( talk) 08:45, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
not sure where to ask this, but is there a similar article for irish and "hillbillies" or "rednecks" for lack of a better term? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.180.114 ( talk) 01:06, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
There is no reference in the article to alcohol abuse prevention programs and programs designed to help people go to rehab. These programs are headed by the Indian Health Services, the healthcare provider of Native Americans. I will add an area about the work done by the Indian Health Services as well as the Tribal Action Plan, a plan to better increase education and risks associated with alcohol. Another thing was to move the categories of contributing factors and binge drinking under the umbrella category of alcohol abuse because that is the most logical grouping of ideas. Under the contributing factors should go the idea of genetic makeup influence, underage drinking, while addressing both ideas of the nature versus nurture debate. This seems to be the most controversial part of the article. If I address only one side, it seems that this would not be a full representation of the entire debate. I think these changes should be made to the article to increase the detail and accuracy of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Romildcp ( talk • contribs) 22:11, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
I’m really impressed by the direction you’re interested in taking this article in, Romildcp. If anyone comes to the page looking for information, by adding information about the IHS and the Tribal Action Plan, you’ve made it helpful both to people in need of assistance and people simply seeking to learn more. I like also how you’ve buffed out the article with statistics that tell a compelling story with neutrality. My suggestion is that you add more citations within your text, as well as links to other articles (such as the IHS page). I would also look into finding appropriate images or figures, if you think they would enhance the overall article. Great job so far! Khanzar ( talk) 01:47, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
The growth of the article from the initial to expanded contribution is obvious – the article now provides a more complete historical picture of the issue and its nuances. Great work! I think the article is very readable, and to improve that facet even further, you could consider adding a graphic related to the topic. I mostly would like to see the inclusion of more citations within the article, especially in sections where there isn’t a single source cited (the entire History section, the "Disease and Death" subsection). Additionally, I would examine the language of the introductory paragraphs and consider rewording it. The two things that stick out to me in particular:
(I mention these two things in particular because they are the first things a person will read on the page.) Let me know if you have any questions or how else I might be able to help you in the review process. Good luck! Khanzar ( talk) 03:06, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I liked the sections added to 'Contributing factors.' The content was comprehensive and well-organized. The only suggestions I would make are to make the content more readable rather than a list of facts and to add more citations and links to other Wikipedia articles.
MYao ( talk) 01:13, 22 October 2015 (UTC)MYao
The information you added was very useful and unique. You provided information that would most likely be otherwise difficult to obtain. My only suggestion would be more links and citations! Gilperkins ( talk) 02:40, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
This article is extremely informative! I'm impressed with the way User:Romildcp was able to tie together a lot of information- history, cultural factors, societal problems that result from alcoholism, and differences among particular demographics and groups. This article gives a very good concise illustration of how multifaceted the issue is, without losing the message in too much irrelevant detail. My only suggestions would be to add some illustrations (maybe of some of the alcoholic beverages brewed by Native Americans before colonization, if those exist), and to ensure that the statements in the article maintain neutrality. Overall it looks good! Emily.johnson135 ( talk) 00:58, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Alcohol and Native Americans. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The statement, "there are no current discovered genetic or other biological anomalies that render Native peoples particularly vulnerable to alcoholism" is not accurate. Several genes have been identified as potential genetic/biological contributors to alcoholism, as well as substance abuse in general. See Evidence for a Genetic Component for Substance Dependence in Native Americans, Cindy L. Ehlers, PhD and Ian R. Gizer, Ph.D., Am J Psychiatry. 2013 Feb 1; 170(2): 154–164. grifterlake ( talk) 17:41, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
I marked this as dubious because the citation is from the 1900s. Rich ( talk) 02:00, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
The first journal article cited in the article (Szlemko etal. 2006) begins with the paragraph:
Opening the article by paraphrasing this paragraph, and adopting the opening line as the title, would provide a clearer statement of the topic, which would be better focused on the public health issues, with support from the historical content, which currently seems out of balance. In particular I find the individual coverage of the temperance activists distracting.
I corrected the "author list" problem with this first citation, and may do the others. -- WriterArtistDC ( talk) 03:24, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
The article contradicts itself on whether some form of genetic predisposition exists. The "Contributing Factors" states: "Evidence that these genetic factors are more prevalent in Native Americans than other ethnic groups has been a subject of debate. According to one 2013 review of academic literature on the issue, there is a "substantial genetic component in Native Americans" and "most Native Americans lack protective variants seen in other populations." Many scientists have provided evidence of the genetic component of alcoholism by the biopsychosocial model of alcoholism, but the molecular genetics research currently has not found one specific gene that is responsible for the rates of alcoholism among Native Americans, implying the phenomenon may be due to an interplay of multiple genes and environmental factors." with citations of multiple academic papers, and, somewhat later: "The scientific literature has refuted the claims to many of these myths by documenting the wide variability of alcohol problems across and within Native tribes and the very different response that certain individuals have to alcohol as opposed to others. Another important way that scientific literature has refuted these myths is by identifying that there are no known genetic or biological anomalies that render Native peoples particularly vulnerable to alcoholism." with a citation of one article in the Alcohol Treatment Quarterly and another in The Verge. The "wide variability" part is presented misleadingly, since statistical genetic differences can exist without being omnipresent or uniform. The "no known genetic or biological anomalies" part contradicts the "Genetic predisposition to alcoholism" section that precedes it, and the sources should be checked and the article changed to clearly state which of these ideas is true or scientifically supported. -- 2601:80:4580:E0E0:C582:699C:11F1:F4C3 ( talk) 19:03, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Whiteguru ( talk · contribs) 01:52, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
Starts the Good Article Review. The review will follow the same sections of the article. -- Whiteguru ( talk) 01:52, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
This is a review in progress; it is incomplete. -- Whiteguru ( talk) 08:03, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
This is a review in progress. It is not complete. -- Whiteguru ( talk) 11:01, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
This is a review in progress. It is not complete. -- Whiteguru ( talk) 04:58, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
Overall GA on Hold pending discussions and corrections. --
Whiteguru (
talk) 06:05, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
Overall
✓ Pass -- Whiteguru ( talk) 07:51, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
For example in The Way West (film) "piooneers" "gift" all their liquor to a band of indians — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:CDA0:1060:D63:CF33:F223:ECD6 ( talk) 22:56, 28 May 2022 (UTC)