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Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | → | Archive 15 |
How the hell did he drop out of high school, if he went to college? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.113.131.124 ( talk • contribs).
Yeah but maybe it was because he was smart that he didn't have to
Al's views on vegetarianism are somewhat well-known and influential. They should likely be included, albeit briefly. Re: "extending the circle of compassion," etc. I think most evidence shows he was a wavering vegetarian in practice, but more committed in ideology. Hey, just like my mom.
I've just reread Geeman's comments in the archive about wanting to put the words "Jewish" into the opening paragraph on Einstein. On balance I think this is a good idea for clarity and I support it. A good way of overcoming all the objections against it is to see the phrasing for a similar case in the article on Solomon Lefschetz where it says that Lefschetz was "born in Moscow into a Jewish family (his parents were Turkish citizens) who moved shortly after that to Paris." Isn't that so simple? This phrasing is particularly clever because the phrase "Jewish family" gets out of all the problems of religious and nationalistic labels (which I agree we should avoid in the case of Einstein's "Jewishness"). Therefore I support a similar phrasing in the opening paragraph of Einstein. If there are no objections, I'll go ahead and make this correction in 5 days time so you guys have time to sleep on it. bunix 22:16, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it is in the intro...but not in the top lead paragraph....which is what I think Geeman was refering to. Geeman can you comment? I support the inclusion of these labels. Such labels are there for every other biography on the wikipedia...just because Einstein's case is a little more complicated than average doesn't mean we should shirk from the challenge of finding a succinct way of putting it across. We can collaborate to find the optimal wording. bunix 06:48, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
the Jewish ethnic identity is a very distinctive from thus of other nations.when it comes to europe, an Austrian that was born in Germany can be considerd ,by many, as a genuine german .this is not the same for jews,since the Phoenicians which were from the very same origin as the Jewish people, there are no ethnicly relatives left for the jews between the nations.-- Gilisa 08:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
well, it seems like you all try to avoide his (einstein) true origins,jewishness is treated in the same way as race by most of the world, its a real distinct identity. geneticlly,as many studies about population genetics have allready showd, einstein was a jew and not a German.if we were able to compare the unik markers of the Jewish population with thus of einstein he most probably was considerd as a jew and very far from being German.if we tallking about his backround-so ,einstein came from touhsands of years of jewish lagacy(as the entire european Jewish population) -and lagacies like this are very differnt from the european non-Jewish populations in every aspect (history,origins,genetics,culture,language , etc.and this combinations and made einstein) .so , claiming that he was German and a Jewish equally is just to go far from the facts.its true that he became assimalte jew,alot of jews which wish to have secular education had to do so back then in europe.and the un stopable prussure on jews make alot of them running away from their identity (such as kapka and fritz haver,which both return to their origins in the end of their life) .but still, in the same way that Lorens the man of arbia still was british, so the jews are still and first of all jews.(sorry for the bad english...speaking well only hebrew and spanish).-- Gilisa 06:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and put the proposed change to the opening sentence noted above into the actual article. Let's see if it actually freaks people out or is so offensive that it gets reverted quickly. Geeman 04:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Its just Abad taste to say that Einstein was a"german" since its really to give the honor for Jewish achievements to the german people ,which are the most hated nation by many Jews because of their endless crimes ,during the history, against the Jewish nation.
This is just not right to claim that the Jewish identity is an abstract identity,judaisem is not only a religion . Jewish people have their own genetic pool ,which is very different from that of the hosting population ,they have their own culture and their own over then 3500 years history. I deliberately didn’t remained the fact that they have their own languages since that in the modern world there are a lot of Jewish people, even religious ones ,which couldnt speak any Jewish dialect properly. any way,to mention Einstein as a German first of all offend me as decent of a Jewish family originally from Germany and Hungary ,there is not such a thing as a jew which is German before he is a Jew, a specially not after the holocaust .as it well known from the jewish history,since the Diaspora started ,after the failure of the second revolt against the roman empire , the jewish people were always wandering from one country to another, suffering from endless persecutions and false charges .so, naturally the vast majority of the jewish people didn’t live at their historical homeland (even now ,after the establishment of the Jewish state of Israel, in which I live, most of the Jewish people are still living at the diaspora) and so, against their will , most of the Jewish people had a residence at foreign countries. Its still doesn't make a jaw that live at germany to be more german than a Jew or even to have equally german and Jewish identity. in conclusion, the jewish identity must to be mentioned before any other identity even if we are talking about an assimilating jew ,AND every jew represents many generations of being refuges With a unique identity. It must be taken for granted that the Jewish identity, in the same way like a lot of other ethnic Identities,is an objective identity and not only subjective and the post modernistic claims which state that the identity of any person is out of touch with his history, or even with his genes are not more valuable then the opposite claims, and when it comes to the reality test they are just failed.
My ancestors were exile from Israel to Europe, by force. they lived in Italy and in spain and then were exiled from spain to turkey and from there they immigrate to Austria , Poland,Hungary ,and Germany. this kind of history is common to most of the Jewish people, still ,we are Jews ,first of all. Sorry for the syntax mistakes.
Gilisa,ISRAEL,14.02.07
first of all, we are not 98% chimpanzee,recent studies put the similarity on 95% or less (if we consider the different arregment and the different otosoms and Y chromosom structure it can be put on less then 90%).we are also 70% banana (more or less,and there are animals in which we have no eledge common ancestry in which we have ,suprisingly,very much alike),still ,every percent contain milions of milions of cod letters.the differnce between populations genoms seems tooday much and much grater then been thought only few years ago (and again,sorry for the bad gramer,spelling and etc).How ever,the meaning of even one single genetic letter (A,T,G,C) could be very meaningful (wheter it lethal or not) and even if humans ,generaly, have alot in common-the 'little' gap and the 'little' in common could make a big differnce.now,about the Jewish people,there are,in fact,new research groups-mostly of non-jewish scientist at the USA which propose that there is a genetic origin for the "Jewish intelect" .and probably,einstein intelect is a by product of his own genes.
Hitler(ימ"ש וזכרו ) wasnt the first rabbi of israel or the first rabbi of the Jewish world ,NO body can tell me not to "over" mention the identity of any jew because "it is dangours" .this kind of spirit belongs for loosers which allready gave up over their own identity .acctually , when it get to famous jews i get the immpression that there is a wide prefernce to hide as much as possiable their Jewish origin . in the case of johan von neumann - i tried to write about his Jewish background at the infobox (in the religion line) but it allways was deleted.the Jewishness of somebody is not secondery to his residence .
and about his identity ,as Einstein state himself: "A Jew who sheds his faith along the way, or who even picks up a different one, is still a Jew".
in the same way,jewish who was born in germany is still ,and first of all, a jew-- Gilisa 16:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I always heard that Einstein had invented the atomic bomb while working in a top secret area of America is this true? If so where? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.29.125 ( talk • contribs).
Every time I add the Copley Medal to the notable prizes section of the infobox, SuperGirl removes it. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? Kaldari 23:53, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
No mention of the Einstein Summation convention, not his most important work, but maybe could be included? (this thing is at: Einstein notation) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.111.8.103 ( talk • contribs) .
I think that the links below speak for them self . At least 3 of them been taken from the racist and an anti-Semitic web site "jew watch" which its credibility is quite low and from other shady ,crazy, stupid web sites such as "white civil rights" …any way ,the claims that Mileva was the real inventor of the relativity ,for my opinion , is a poor claim that rise up from an anti-semitic and\or feministic agendas , and it being promote ,at different level and in different ways , by people which are anti-semitic and/or feministic supporters and/or suffering from bad ability to see the reality as it is.
there is not even one strong argument that supports the idea that Einstein relativity theory had been helped by his first wife, and all of the evidence for this suggestion is weak .two examples are: 1. the argument that Einstein and mileva used to work on the same desk 2.that Einstein shared the Nobel grant money with mileva. more reasonable explanations for these evidences are 1. that they had only one desk in their house ,because they couldn’t afford themselves to buy one another, which is a known fact. 2. many other Nobel winners ,beside Einstein, used to share the prize money with their ex-wife as a part of the divorce agreement and its known that mileva refuse to sign the divorce papers until Einstein agreed to share with her the nobel prize ,along with other stuff of their common property. Mileva use this money to buy an apartment building and used the monthly rent money for the living of her and of the children she had from the marriage with Albert .More, when he was asked about his own mother scientific contribution to the relativity theory , Einstein only living son couldn’t recall any. Additionally, Albert remained an extremely fruitful scientist for the rest of his life, long after divorcing mileva, while she, on the other hand, never published any significant paper work and was never mentioned, by any of her or albert’s acquaintances for having her own original ideas, And finally, Mileva herself never claimed that she took any important part in the scientific work attributed to Albert .
There are two other major claims suggesting that Mileva had a scientific contribution to Einstein, like that she enjoyed a lot from listening Albert and his friends talking about physics, but its only natural considering that she was a physics student for many years ,and that’s also was the way in which she met Einstein for the first time and this is quite usual that educated people getting married with educationally equal partners.
In his romantic letters to Mileva, Einstein refer to the theory of relativity as "ours" ,and this was taken as a prove for the influence of Mileva on Einstein prodigies. But when it scrutinized , it is well notable that in his letters and writing Einstein refer to any aspect of his life ,in the time that he was still in love with Mileva, as "ours".
While there is heavy doubts regarding claims that Mileva had an active part in Einstein scientific works ,there is no doubt that he appreciate her earring for his own ideas.
Again, sorry for the bad syntax and spelling...
Gilisa,Israel,13/02/07.
Maybe their should be a section detailin this:- * Albert Einstein: The Incorrigible Plagiarist * Plagiarist of the Century
From many peoples understanding Albert Einstein was a plagiarist. However his work on Brownian motion (for which he got the Nobel prize) was apparently original and quite good. Remember, he didn't get the Nobel prize for "his" relativity theory. :DEinstein received the Nobel Prize for his work on the photo-electric effect. [3]
This should be in the article from a non biased POV (regardless of whether links are Communist or Nationalist the references and facts should be taken note of) FK0071a 14:12, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
It was probably a blue eyes blond hair 1.90 muscular Aryan who invite the theory of relativity ,while Einstein himself was only a thief …this is the basic principle of the links above, unfortunately for the Europeans and their descents else where which supports the grotesque ideas of "white superiority" ,this is really far from the facts. Regarding the Jewish people, their contribution to the world were always, all along the history and at any given place, much grater then their actual weight in the population. So claming that there is any "superiority" for non-Jewish Europeans is only true when it comes to the quantity.(there are about 1 billion Europeans and Europeans descents around the world and only 13 million Jews) Gilisa
If I'm not mistaken, isn't it Einstein's general theory of relativity itself that is the tool that has proven that reality is made of flat Euclidean space (when mass isn't around)? 2:14 December 7, 2006 (EST)
I changed my mind and decided that the point I made was not valid so I have decided to delete my comments about this issue. FDR 23:43:32 12/29/2006 (UTC)
Do we really need the lengthy analysis of Einstein's grade card. Seems the article is plenty long without dragging out the grade details. Also, it is not our job here to presume or deduce anything (removed that part) - just to report the pertinate published and notable information. Vsmith 03:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Copied the following from my talk for all to view:
Alright, let me explain to you the logic of this, when it comes to flow of article.
I agree that embellishment and such should have no place in scientific articles in general, however I disagree with your ideas here.
You are being narrow minded. Read the 2 paragraphs pertaining to his education and performance in school. The reason why I included the additional information is to end that section with "Einstein only excelled in the subjects he deemed relevant to his scientific career."
This is THE TRUTH. Alright, i can take out the "presume" and "deduce" bit, if need be, however, I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT THIS VITAL INFORMATION AS TO THE thinking of Albert Einstein, or his perception of education in general as a reflection of his own experiences through high school, is VERY IMPORTANT AND RELEVANT to this article. It's not just the flow of the entire paragraph, its a concluding sentence, which is important in any academic essay.
I am not sure about your level of understanding of these subtle ideas. But JUST FOR YOU, i will take out the "presume" and "deduce" bit, even though it is blatantly obvious, I was being pragmatic by using those 2 verbs to suggest that there might have been more to Einstein than what's on paper.
Fine, i'll take it out, but I am going to include the concluding sentence, and if you still have a problem with it, let's take it up with higher personell.
Regards, -- Emperor 03:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
User:Overlord or Emperor has inserted another version of his concluding sentence which appears to be based on his interpretation and thus comes near to or is WP:OR. Also he seems to have re-added similar material a number of times, I have previously left him a WP:3RR warning on his talk page. Vsmith 04:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I must say I both agree and disagree with the above arguments. Firstly, the marks he obtained in other courses DO NOT refute the concluding sentence of mine. However, they don't necessarily support it either. That's why I have accepted the current changes until I can find evidence of a quote of Einstein, clearly supporting my conclusion. I am almost certain that I am right, however proving it is difficult. Einstein's priorities lied in the physical and mathematical sciences. Obtaining an excellent grade in also history doesn't suggest I am wrong. His above average marks in other courses do not falsify my claims in any way. If anything, it does suggest that irrespective of his qualms he did take pride in what he attempted. The reason why I am certain of my claims, is because of several aspects in his earlier life. I am not going to mention these, as they do not provide the proof that I am looking for at this point. I believe in the future, once I find something irrefutable, I will include my original concluding sentence. --
Emperor
14:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Something hopefully less controversial... The article currently says: Einstein also completed English studies, for which he received no grade.. This, I believe, is incorrect. The document is a pre-printed form with the possible courses; if Einstein did no receive a grade, it is proably because he did not take the course. In more recent times (until a few years ago), Swiss students could choose between Italian and English as a third language. I cannot be confident that it was already the case in Einstein's times, but it looks like a good explanation for the absence of a grade. In any case, I'll just remove the sentence. Schutz 23:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I studied in switzerland for several years during primary school, secondary and high school, and it IS possible to complete subjects WITHOUT receiving a grade. However, usually it would be denoted with "bes." for "besucht" and so it seems that you might be right. I must add, however, that it is not unlikely that Einstein also completed English studies, because I have a friend, in his 50s, who studied in the same High school as einstein did, and he did indeed receive grades for german, french, italian and english. However, it might well be the case that Einstein studied the more scientifically focused "typ". In any case, it's better not to presume. --
Emperor
14:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
would it be true to say that he was wrong and that e=mcsquared and that at higher velocities the energy increased and not the mass? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.137.118.130 ( talk) 01:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
Removed the following as neither source gives the original occurrence of the quote.
About.com is not a valid source and the Bhagavad Gita and Management source seems rather a poor source for the quote. Provide a better - or the original source and context or leave it out. Vsmith 16:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I've put in the relevant quotes from Pais (the definitive biography) which cite the Nature Paper, and a ref to the Nature Paper. As user:Sparkhead pointed out the mention of the Nature paper should not be in the quotes section, but the previous one. Since the other "blind/lame" quote is slightly different and cited to a secondary source I have not deleted it, because he may have said it twice, but the primary source Nature and definitive bio should take priority IMHO. NBeale 23:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
You write:
"Einstein's refusal might have stemmed from his disapproval of some of the Israeli policies during the war of independence."
Your "might have stemmed from" claim appears as your private position on this. Please, provide a quotation from a reputable source or remove your claim if you can not substantiate it.
64.160.42.130 03:33, 21 December 2006 (UTC)Michael Yatziv
Tansu Çiller served as prime minister of Turkey from 1993-1995 after acquiring American citizenship while in graduate school in Connecticut: http://mediaguidetoislam.sfsu.edu/women/03b_feminism.htm
Belgrade-born California businessman Milan Panić was a U.S. citizen when he served as the prime minister of Yugoslavia from 1992-1993.
Valdus Adamkus is currently the president of Lithuania (he had U.S. citizenship but renounced it.)
Golda Meir was prime minister of Israel after having had American citizenship (it is unclear whether she renounced it). Critic9328 18:05, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
The offending was removed during copy edit, thanks for the data! That would have been almost impossible to verify. ~ Otterpops 18:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
I think the article is incorrect in describing the wonderful thought experiment that Einstein performed at age 16. The article as now posted says: "...at the age of 16, he performed the thought experiment known as "Albert Einstein's mirror". After gazing into a mirror, he examined what would happen to his image if he were moving at the speed of light; his conclusion, that the speed of light is independent of the observer, would later become one of the two postulates of special relativity."
In fact, I think his great thought experiment, which led to his theory of special relativity, was about riding alongside a light beam and trying to catch up with it.
Here is his quote as recorded in Peter Bucky, The Private Albert Einstein, Kansas City: Andrew and McMeel, 1992, page 26: “In Aarau I made my first rather childish experiments in thinking that had a direct bearing on the Special Theory. If a person could run after a light wave with the same speed as light, you would have a wave arrangement which could be completely independent of time. Of course, such a thing is impossible." He expanded on this experiment in Aarau at age 16 in his own "Autobiographical notes," printed in Paul Arthur Schilpp, Albert Einstein, Chicago: Open Court Press, 1949, page 49: "If I pursue a beam of light with the velocity c (velocity of light in a vacuum), I should observe such a beam of light as an electromagnetic field at rest though spatially oscillating. There seems to be no such thing, however, neither on the basis of experience nor according to Maxwell’s equations. From the very beginning it appeared to me intuitively clear that, judged from the standpoint of such an observer, everything would have to happen according to the same laws as for an observer who, relative to the earth, was at rest. For how should the first observer know or be able to determine that he is in a state of fast uniform motion? One sees in this paradox the germ of the special relativity theory is already contained."
I think it would be better to say: "That same year, at age 16, he performed a famous thought experiment by trying to visualize what it would be like to ride alongside a light beam. He realized that, according to Maxwell's equations, light waves would obey the principle of relativity: the speed of the light would seem the same, a constant speed, no matter what the constant velocity of the observer." 209.97.231.74 04:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)Jefferson St. Charles
Einstein has so many memorable quotes. Why isn't there a section in the article dedicated only to his quotes even if the have to be repeated??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marwan123 ( talk • contribs) 06:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC).
The following was posted to the article by 207.210.130.113. Assuming it is not plagiarized, it deserves a home somewhere, but this biography is not a suitable home:
"The classical laws of physics were formulated by Newton in the Principia in 1687. According to this theory the motion of a particle has to be described relative to an inertial frame .... ( many paragraphs removed from this copy—see note below * —Æ) .... The committee was at first cautious and waited for experimental confirmation. By the time such confirmation was available Einstein had moved on to further momentous work."
--moved to talk page by teb728 22:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the reversion: Not only would Einstein have been more likely to use "k" for "konstant" if that were the etymology (he didn't speak English at the time), but also he would not have believed anything so ludicrous as that the speed of light was the only constant in the universe. (Immediate counterexamples would be 1 and c^2.) Indeed, check out cosmological constant. — DAGwyn 07:11, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Einstein endorsed Stalin's 1936 and 1937 show trials. See "Einstein-Born Brief Wechseln" and an English translation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.139.113.156 ( talk) 18:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC).
The Einstein Born Letters, London, MacMillan, 1971, 2005. Einstein/Born Briefwechsel, 1916-1955, Verlag Rowohlt, 1984. In 1937, Born wrote to Einstein, suggesting that he recommend a physicist to the Soviets, mainly Molotov. Then Born said, "I could understand it if you wanted nothing to do with the Soviets. The new trial against Radek is disgusting." Einstein replied by endorsing the phoney trials and quoting the ipse dixit of experts on Russia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.194.4.21 ( talk • contribs) 09:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC).
Gimme a
citation needed and I'll include it. ~
Otterpops
18:59, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
The tongue photograph citation link is dead. (currently Albert Einstein# note-54). I don't have time to wayback machine it or find alternative source, so leaving note here. — Quiddity 02:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Just out of curiosity, why don't we show the picture here? I'm sure it was included in the article at some point, but I really don't feel like going through the archives and page history to find out what happened to it, I haven't checked the article in months. -- Conti| ✉ 03:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I think I spotted a minor mistake. In the article it is stated:
In November 1915, Einstein presented a series of lectures before the Prussian Academy of Sciences on a new theory of gravity, known as general relativity. The final lecture ended with his introduction of an equation that replaced Newton's law of gravity, the Einstein field equation.
All other sources that I have seen relate the following:
In oktober/november Einstein submitted in quick succession several hurried communications to the magazine: 'Proceedings of the Prussion academy of sciences' (Preusische Academie der Wissenschaften, Sitzungsberichte).
Not a series of lectures in november, but hasty notes to the magazine, each one basically a correction/amendation on the preceeding one. At the time, Einstein and Hilbert were corresponding with each other, keeping each other informed about their progress. Einstein and Hilbert assisted and stimulated each other (any secrecy would have been frowned upon as contrary to the free spirit of science), but at the same time they were competitors, and historians of science indicate that if Einstein would have hesitated he would not have had priority of publication.
Anyway, the november communications weren't lectures, and they weren't articles. It is my understanding that the november communications were hurried notes, each published within a week of being submitted, aimed at securing Einstein's priority.
Several months before, in the summer of 1915, Einstein had been invited to Göttingen to present lectures on his new theory. The subject of these lectures was the theory that nowadays is known as the 'Entwurf theory', the attempt at formulating a general theory of relativity that was published in 1913, a collaboration between Einstein and his friend Marcel Grossman.
Einstein's first systematic exposition of the general theory of relativity was composed and published in 1916. -- Cleonis | Talk 09:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I know some vague stuff about the general theory of relativity, but not enough to write anything about "geometrization of gravity", which this article refers to.
Somebody added a link to Geometry for "geometrization", but that is inadequate to explain what this is about.
I think either an explanation is needed or an another article is needed. Clemwang 05:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Could an admin remove/ fix the "noinclude" tag visible near the bottom of the page?Thanks. 24.20.69.240 11:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | → | Archive 15 |
How the hell did he drop out of high school, if he went to college? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.113.131.124 ( talk • contribs).
Yeah but maybe it was because he was smart that he didn't have to
Al's views on vegetarianism are somewhat well-known and influential. They should likely be included, albeit briefly. Re: "extending the circle of compassion," etc. I think most evidence shows he was a wavering vegetarian in practice, but more committed in ideology. Hey, just like my mom.
I've just reread Geeman's comments in the archive about wanting to put the words "Jewish" into the opening paragraph on Einstein. On balance I think this is a good idea for clarity and I support it. A good way of overcoming all the objections against it is to see the phrasing for a similar case in the article on Solomon Lefschetz where it says that Lefschetz was "born in Moscow into a Jewish family (his parents were Turkish citizens) who moved shortly after that to Paris." Isn't that so simple? This phrasing is particularly clever because the phrase "Jewish family" gets out of all the problems of religious and nationalistic labels (which I agree we should avoid in the case of Einstein's "Jewishness"). Therefore I support a similar phrasing in the opening paragraph of Einstein. If there are no objections, I'll go ahead and make this correction in 5 days time so you guys have time to sleep on it. bunix 22:16, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it is in the intro...but not in the top lead paragraph....which is what I think Geeman was refering to. Geeman can you comment? I support the inclusion of these labels. Such labels are there for every other biography on the wikipedia...just because Einstein's case is a little more complicated than average doesn't mean we should shirk from the challenge of finding a succinct way of putting it across. We can collaborate to find the optimal wording. bunix 06:48, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
the Jewish ethnic identity is a very distinctive from thus of other nations.when it comes to europe, an Austrian that was born in Germany can be considerd ,by many, as a genuine german .this is not the same for jews,since the Phoenicians which were from the very same origin as the Jewish people, there are no ethnicly relatives left for the jews between the nations.-- Gilisa 08:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
well, it seems like you all try to avoide his (einstein) true origins,jewishness is treated in the same way as race by most of the world, its a real distinct identity. geneticlly,as many studies about population genetics have allready showd, einstein was a jew and not a German.if we were able to compare the unik markers of the Jewish population with thus of einstein he most probably was considerd as a jew and very far from being German.if we tallking about his backround-so ,einstein came from touhsands of years of jewish lagacy(as the entire european Jewish population) -and lagacies like this are very differnt from the european non-Jewish populations in every aspect (history,origins,genetics,culture,language , etc.and this combinations and made einstein) .so , claiming that he was German and a Jewish equally is just to go far from the facts.its true that he became assimalte jew,alot of jews which wish to have secular education had to do so back then in europe.and the un stopable prussure on jews make alot of them running away from their identity (such as kapka and fritz haver,which both return to their origins in the end of their life) .but still, in the same way that Lorens the man of arbia still was british, so the jews are still and first of all jews.(sorry for the bad english...speaking well only hebrew and spanish).-- Gilisa 06:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and put the proposed change to the opening sentence noted above into the actual article. Let's see if it actually freaks people out or is so offensive that it gets reverted quickly. Geeman 04:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Its just Abad taste to say that Einstein was a"german" since its really to give the honor for Jewish achievements to the german people ,which are the most hated nation by many Jews because of their endless crimes ,during the history, against the Jewish nation.
This is just not right to claim that the Jewish identity is an abstract identity,judaisem is not only a religion . Jewish people have their own genetic pool ,which is very different from that of the hosting population ,they have their own culture and their own over then 3500 years history. I deliberately didn’t remained the fact that they have their own languages since that in the modern world there are a lot of Jewish people, even religious ones ,which couldnt speak any Jewish dialect properly. any way,to mention Einstein as a German first of all offend me as decent of a Jewish family originally from Germany and Hungary ,there is not such a thing as a jew which is German before he is a Jew, a specially not after the holocaust .as it well known from the jewish history,since the Diaspora started ,after the failure of the second revolt against the roman empire , the jewish people were always wandering from one country to another, suffering from endless persecutions and false charges .so, naturally the vast majority of the jewish people didn’t live at their historical homeland (even now ,after the establishment of the Jewish state of Israel, in which I live, most of the Jewish people are still living at the diaspora) and so, against their will , most of the Jewish people had a residence at foreign countries. Its still doesn't make a jaw that live at germany to be more german than a Jew or even to have equally german and Jewish identity. in conclusion, the jewish identity must to be mentioned before any other identity even if we are talking about an assimilating jew ,AND every jew represents many generations of being refuges With a unique identity. It must be taken for granted that the Jewish identity, in the same way like a lot of other ethnic Identities,is an objective identity and not only subjective and the post modernistic claims which state that the identity of any person is out of touch with his history, or even with his genes are not more valuable then the opposite claims, and when it comes to the reality test they are just failed.
My ancestors were exile from Israel to Europe, by force. they lived in Italy and in spain and then were exiled from spain to turkey and from there they immigrate to Austria , Poland,Hungary ,and Germany. this kind of history is common to most of the Jewish people, still ,we are Jews ,first of all. Sorry for the syntax mistakes.
Gilisa,ISRAEL,14.02.07
first of all, we are not 98% chimpanzee,recent studies put the similarity on 95% or less (if we consider the different arregment and the different otosoms and Y chromosom structure it can be put on less then 90%).we are also 70% banana (more or less,and there are animals in which we have no eledge common ancestry in which we have ,suprisingly,very much alike),still ,every percent contain milions of milions of cod letters.the differnce between populations genoms seems tooday much and much grater then been thought only few years ago (and again,sorry for the bad gramer,spelling and etc).How ever,the meaning of even one single genetic letter (A,T,G,C) could be very meaningful (wheter it lethal or not) and even if humans ,generaly, have alot in common-the 'little' gap and the 'little' in common could make a big differnce.now,about the Jewish people,there are,in fact,new research groups-mostly of non-jewish scientist at the USA which propose that there is a genetic origin for the "Jewish intelect" .and probably,einstein intelect is a by product of his own genes.
Hitler(ימ"ש וזכרו ) wasnt the first rabbi of israel or the first rabbi of the Jewish world ,NO body can tell me not to "over" mention the identity of any jew because "it is dangours" .this kind of spirit belongs for loosers which allready gave up over their own identity .acctually , when it get to famous jews i get the immpression that there is a wide prefernce to hide as much as possiable their Jewish origin . in the case of johan von neumann - i tried to write about his Jewish background at the infobox (in the religion line) but it allways was deleted.the Jewishness of somebody is not secondery to his residence .
and about his identity ,as Einstein state himself: "A Jew who sheds his faith along the way, or who even picks up a different one, is still a Jew".
in the same way,jewish who was born in germany is still ,and first of all, a jew-- Gilisa 16:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I always heard that Einstein had invented the atomic bomb while working in a top secret area of America is this true? If so where? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.29.125 ( talk • contribs).
Every time I add the Copley Medal to the notable prizes section of the infobox, SuperGirl removes it. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? Kaldari 23:53, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
No mention of the Einstein Summation convention, not his most important work, but maybe could be included? (this thing is at: Einstein notation) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.111.8.103 ( talk • contribs) .
I think that the links below speak for them self . At least 3 of them been taken from the racist and an anti-Semitic web site "jew watch" which its credibility is quite low and from other shady ,crazy, stupid web sites such as "white civil rights" …any way ,the claims that Mileva was the real inventor of the relativity ,for my opinion , is a poor claim that rise up from an anti-semitic and\or feministic agendas , and it being promote ,at different level and in different ways , by people which are anti-semitic and/or feministic supporters and/or suffering from bad ability to see the reality as it is.
there is not even one strong argument that supports the idea that Einstein relativity theory had been helped by his first wife, and all of the evidence for this suggestion is weak .two examples are: 1. the argument that Einstein and mileva used to work on the same desk 2.that Einstein shared the Nobel grant money with mileva. more reasonable explanations for these evidences are 1. that they had only one desk in their house ,because they couldn’t afford themselves to buy one another, which is a known fact. 2. many other Nobel winners ,beside Einstein, used to share the prize money with their ex-wife as a part of the divorce agreement and its known that mileva refuse to sign the divorce papers until Einstein agreed to share with her the nobel prize ,along with other stuff of their common property. Mileva use this money to buy an apartment building and used the monthly rent money for the living of her and of the children she had from the marriage with Albert .More, when he was asked about his own mother scientific contribution to the relativity theory , Einstein only living son couldn’t recall any. Additionally, Albert remained an extremely fruitful scientist for the rest of his life, long after divorcing mileva, while she, on the other hand, never published any significant paper work and was never mentioned, by any of her or albert’s acquaintances for having her own original ideas, And finally, Mileva herself never claimed that she took any important part in the scientific work attributed to Albert .
There are two other major claims suggesting that Mileva had a scientific contribution to Einstein, like that she enjoyed a lot from listening Albert and his friends talking about physics, but its only natural considering that she was a physics student for many years ,and that’s also was the way in which she met Einstein for the first time and this is quite usual that educated people getting married with educationally equal partners.
In his romantic letters to Mileva, Einstein refer to the theory of relativity as "ours" ,and this was taken as a prove for the influence of Mileva on Einstein prodigies. But when it scrutinized , it is well notable that in his letters and writing Einstein refer to any aspect of his life ,in the time that he was still in love with Mileva, as "ours".
While there is heavy doubts regarding claims that Mileva had an active part in Einstein scientific works ,there is no doubt that he appreciate her earring for his own ideas.
Again, sorry for the bad syntax and spelling...
Gilisa,Israel,13/02/07.
Maybe their should be a section detailin this:- * Albert Einstein: The Incorrigible Plagiarist * Plagiarist of the Century
From many peoples understanding Albert Einstein was a plagiarist. However his work on Brownian motion (for which he got the Nobel prize) was apparently original and quite good. Remember, he didn't get the Nobel prize for "his" relativity theory. :DEinstein received the Nobel Prize for his work on the photo-electric effect. [3]
This should be in the article from a non biased POV (regardless of whether links are Communist or Nationalist the references and facts should be taken note of) FK0071a 14:12, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
It was probably a blue eyes blond hair 1.90 muscular Aryan who invite the theory of relativity ,while Einstein himself was only a thief …this is the basic principle of the links above, unfortunately for the Europeans and their descents else where which supports the grotesque ideas of "white superiority" ,this is really far from the facts. Regarding the Jewish people, their contribution to the world were always, all along the history and at any given place, much grater then their actual weight in the population. So claming that there is any "superiority" for non-Jewish Europeans is only true when it comes to the quantity.(there are about 1 billion Europeans and Europeans descents around the world and only 13 million Jews) Gilisa
If I'm not mistaken, isn't it Einstein's general theory of relativity itself that is the tool that has proven that reality is made of flat Euclidean space (when mass isn't around)? 2:14 December 7, 2006 (EST)
I changed my mind and decided that the point I made was not valid so I have decided to delete my comments about this issue. FDR 23:43:32 12/29/2006 (UTC)
Do we really need the lengthy analysis of Einstein's grade card. Seems the article is plenty long without dragging out the grade details. Also, it is not our job here to presume or deduce anything (removed that part) - just to report the pertinate published and notable information. Vsmith 03:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Copied the following from my talk for all to view:
Alright, let me explain to you the logic of this, when it comes to flow of article.
I agree that embellishment and such should have no place in scientific articles in general, however I disagree with your ideas here.
You are being narrow minded. Read the 2 paragraphs pertaining to his education and performance in school. The reason why I included the additional information is to end that section with "Einstein only excelled in the subjects he deemed relevant to his scientific career."
This is THE TRUTH. Alright, i can take out the "presume" and "deduce" bit, if need be, however, I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT THIS VITAL INFORMATION AS TO THE thinking of Albert Einstein, or his perception of education in general as a reflection of his own experiences through high school, is VERY IMPORTANT AND RELEVANT to this article. It's not just the flow of the entire paragraph, its a concluding sentence, which is important in any academic essay.
I am not sure about your level of understanding of these subtle ideas. But JUST FOR YOU, i will take out the "presume" and "deduce" bit, even though it is blatantly obvious, I was being pragmatic by using those 2 verbs to suggest that there might have been more to Einstein than what's on paper.
Fine, i'll take it out, but I am going to include the concluding sentence, and if you still have a problem with it, let's take it up with higher personell.
Regards, -- Emperor 03:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
User:Overlord or Emperor has inserted another version of his concluding sentence which appears to be based on his interpretation and thus comes near to or is WP:OR. Also he seems to have re-added similar material a number of times, I have previously left him a WP:3RR warning on his talk page. Vsmith 04:00, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I must say I both agree and disagree with the above arguments. Firstly, the marks he obtained in other courses DO NOT refute the concluding sentence of mine. However, they don't necessarily support it either. That's why I have accepted the current changes until I can find evidence of a quote of Einstein, clearly supporting my conclusion. I am almost certain that I am right, however proving it is difficult. Einstein's priorities lied in the physical and mathematical sciences. Obtaining an excellent grade in also history doesn't suggest I am wrong. His above average marks in other courses do not falsify my claims in any way. If anything, it does suggest that irrespective of his qualms he did take pride in what he attempted. The reason why I am certain of my claims, is because of several aspects in his earlier life. I am not going to mention these, as they do not provide the proof that I am looking for at this point. I believe in the future, once I find something irrefutable, I will include my original concluding sentence. --
Emperor
14:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Something hopefully less controversial... The article currently says: Einstein also completed English studies, for which he received no grade.. This, I believe, is incorrect. The document is a pre-printed form with the possible courses; if Einstein did no receive a grade, it is proably because he did not take the course. In more recent times (until a few years ago), Swiss students could choose between Italian and English as a third language. I cannot be confident that it was already the case in Einstein's times, but it looks like a good explanation for the absence of a grade. In any case, I'll just remove the sentence. Schutz 23:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I studied in switzerland for several years during primary school, secondary and high school, and it IS possible to complete subjects WITHOUT receiving a grade. However, usually it would be denoted with "bes." for "besucht" and so it seems that you might be right. I must add, however, that it is not unlikely that Einstein also completed English studies, because I have a friend, in his 50s, who studied in the same High school as einstein did, and he did indeed receive grades for german, french, italian and english. However, it might well be the case that Einstein studied the more scientifically focused "typ". In any case, it's better not to presume. --
Emperor
14:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
would it be true to say that he was wrong and that e=mcsquared and that at higher velocities the energy increased and not the mass? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.137.118.130 ( talk) 01:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC).
Removed the following as neither source gives the original occurrence of the quote.
About.com is not a valid source and the Bhagavad Gita and Management source seems rather a poor source for the quote. Provide a better - or the original source and context or leave it out. Vsmith 16:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I've put in the relevant quotes from Pais (the definitive biography) which cite the Nature Paper, and a ref to the Nature Paper. As user:Sparkhead pointed out the mention of the Nature paper should not be in the quotes section, but the previous one. Since the other "blind/lame" quote is slightly different and cited to a secondary source I have not deleted it, because he may have said it twice, but the primary source Nature and definitive bio should take priority IMHO. NBeale 23:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
You write:
"Einstein's refusal might have stemmed from his disapproval of some of the Israeli policies during the war of independence."
Your "might have stemmed from" claim appears as your private position on this. Please, provide a quotation from a reputable source or remove your claim if you can not substantiate it.
64.160.42.130 03:33, 21 December 2006 (UTC)Michael Yatziv
Tansu Çiller served as prime minister of Turkey from 1993-1995 after acquiring American citizenship while in graduate school in Connecticut: http://mediaguidetoislam.sfsu.edu/women/03b_feminism.htm
Belgrade-born California businessman Milan Panić was a U.S. citizen when he served as the prime minister of Yugoslavia from 1992-1993.
Valdus Adamkus is currently the president of Lithuania (he had U.S. citizenship but renounced it.)
Golda Meir was prime minister of Israel after having had American citizenship (it is unclear whether she renounced it). Critic9328 18:05, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
The offending was removed during copy edit, thanks for the data! That would have been almost impossible to verify. ~ Otterpops 18:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
I think the article is incorrect in describing the wonderful thought experiment that Einstein performed at age 16. The article as now posted says: "...at the age of 16, he performed the thought experiment known as "Albert Einstein's mirror". After gazing into a mirror, he examined what would happen to his image if he were moving at the speed of light; his conclusion, that the speed of light is independent of the observer, would later become one of the two postulates of special relativity."
In fact, I think his great thought experiment, which led to his theory of special relativity, was about riding alongside a light beam and trying to catch up with it.
Here is his quote as recorded in Peter Bucky, The Private Albert Einstein, Kansas City: Andrew and McMeel, 1992, page 26: “In Aarau I made my first rather childish experiments in thinking that had a direct bearing on the Special Theory. If a person could run after a light wave with the same speed as light, you would have a wave arrangement which could be completely independent of time. Of course, such a thing is impossible." He expanded on this experiment in Aarau at age 16 in his own "Autobiographical notes," printed in Paul Arthur Schilpp, Albert Einstein, Chicago: Open Court Press, 1949, page 49: "If I pursue a beam of light with the velocity c (velocity of light in a vacuum), I should observe such a beam of light as an electromagnetic field at rest though spatially oscillating. There seems to be no such thing, however, neither on the basis of experience nor according to Maxwell’s equations. From the very beginning it appeared to me intuitively clear that, judged from the standpoint of such an observer, everything would have to happen according to the same laws as for an observer who, relative to the earth, was at rest. For how should the first observer know or be able to determine that he is in a state of fast uniform motion? One sees in this paradox the germ of the special relativity theory is already contained."
I think it would be better to say: "That same year, at age 16, he performed a famous thought experiment by trying to visualize what it would be like to ride alongside a light beam. He realized that, according to Maxwell's equations, light waves would obey the principle of relativity: the speed of the light would seem the same, a constant speed, no matter what the constant velocity of the observer." 209.97.231.74 04:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)Jefferson St. Charles
Einstein has so many memorable quotes. Why isn't there a section in the article dedicated only to his quotes even if the have to be repeated??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marwan123 ( talk • contribs) 06:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC).
The following was posted to the article by 207.210.130.113. Assuming it is not plagiarized, it deserves a home somewhere, but this biography is not a suitable home:
"The classical laws of physics were formulated by Newton in the Principia in 1687. According to this theory the motion of a particle has to be described relative to an inertial frame .... ( many paragraphs removed from this copy—see note below * —Æ) .... The committee was at first cautious and waited for experimental confirmation. By the time such confirmation was available Einstein had moved on to further momentous work."
--moved to talk page by teb728 22:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree with the reversion: Not only would Einstein have been more likely to use "k" for "konstant" if that were the etymology (he didn't speak English at the time), but also he would not have believed anything so ludicrous as that the speed of light was the only constant in the universe. (Immediate counterexamples would be 1 and c^2.) Indeed, check out cosmological constant. — DAGwyn 07:11, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Einstein endorsed Stalin's 1936 and 1937 show trials. See "Einstein-Born Brief Wechseln" and an English translation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.139.113.156 ( talk) 18:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC).
The Einstein Born Letters, London, MacMillan, 1971, 2005. Einstein/Born Briefwechsel, 1916-1955, Verlag Rowohlt, 1984. In 1937, Born wrote to Einstein, suggesting that he recommend a physicist to the Soviets, mainly Molotov. Then Born said, "I could understand it if you wanted nothing to do with the Soviets. The new trial against Radek is disgusting." Einstein replied by endorsing the phoney trials and quoting the ipse dixit of experts on Russia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.194.4.21 ( talk • contribs) 09:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC).
Gimme a
citation needed and I'll include it. ~
Otterpops
18:59, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
The tongue photograph citation link is dead. (currently Albert Einstein# note-54). I don't have time to wayback machine it or find alternative source, so leaving note here. — Quiddity 02:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Just out of curiosity, why don't we show the picture here? I'm sure it was included in the article at some point, but I really don't feel like going through the archives and page history to find out what happened to it, I haven't checked the article in months. -- Conti| ✉ 03:09, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I think I spotted a minor mistake. In the article it is stated:
In November 1915, Einstein presented a series of lectures before the Prussian Academy of Sciences on a new theory of gravity, known as general relativity. The final lecture ended with his introduction of an equation that replaced Newton's law of gravity, the Einstein field equation.
All other sources that I have seen relate the following:
In oktober/november Einstein submitted in quick succession several hurried communications to the magazine: 'Proceedings of the Prussion academy of sciences' (Preusische Academie der Wissenschaften, Sitzungsberichte).
Not a series of lectures in november, but hasty notes to the magazine, each one basically a correction/amendation on the preceeding one. At the time, Einstein and Hilbert were corresponding with each other, keeping each other informed about their progress. Einstein and Hilbert assisted and stimulated each other (any secrecy would have been frowned upon as contrary to the free spirit of science), but at the same time they were competitors, and historians of science indicate that if Einstein would have hesitated he would not have had priority of publication.
Anyway, the november communications weren't lectures, and they weren't articles. It is my understanding that the november communications were hurried notes, each published within a week of being submitted, aimed at securing Einstein's priority.
Several months before, in the summer of 1915, Einstein had been invited to Göttingen to present lectures on his new theory. The subject of these lectures was the theory that nowadays is known as the 'Entwurf theory', the attempt at formulating a general theory of relativity that was published in 1913, a collaboration between Einstein and his friend Marcel Grossman.
Einstein's first systematic exposition of the general theory of relativity was composed and published in 1916. -- Cleonis | Talk 09:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I know some vague stuff about the general theory of relativity, but not enough to write anything about "geometrization of gravity", which this article refers to.
Somebody added a link to Geometry for "geometrization", but that is inadequate to explain what this is about.
I think either an explanation is needed or an another article is needed. Clemwang 05:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Could an admin remove/ fix the "noinclude" tag visible near the bottom of the page?Thanks. 24.20.69.240 11:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)