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Hmm, I was searching Google and stumbled across this site: http://www.biblio.com/authors/641/Albert_Camus_Biography.html I see "a few" similarities to this article :) Who's copying who? Hopefully someone didn't cut and paste this whole article from that site...
Any ideas? -- Smileyborg 04:28, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
re The Outsider: Should this not be The Stranger?
Good question. Literally "L'Étranger", translates as the stranger, but the outsider is the usual accepted translation of the name of this work, and it does so much better seem to sum up the condition of Meursault, the novel's protagonist. sjc
Is it not only coincidental though that "outsider" doesn't just mean "emmigrant/immigrant" or more accurately "foreigner" in english? I think "The Stranger" is a much more beautiful and elusive title, and it would stave off confusion from that completely different book by Hinton "The Outsiders". I do believe, though, we should label it in french first in the article and then have the two translations below it. How would that sound? It worked for some of Balzac's and de Maupassant's work and it would avoid ambiguity to anybody who was more than skim-reading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.66.242 ( talk) 23:26, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Apparently, the old translation by Stuart Gilbert was called The Outsider. The newer translation by Matthew Ward is named The Stranger. From what I have read, the difference in wording is the subject of some dispute.
It would be great if someone who has read The Myth of Sysiphus could elaborate on Absurdism (and the boundaries between Absurdism and Existentialism).
I don't know what this means, but I've moved it here from the limit article, which I'm about to change a good deal:
Hey... Look at this line: "Camus joined the French Communist Party in 1934, apparently because of the Spanish Civil War, rather than support for Marxist-Leninist doctrine."
This can't possibly be right. The Spanish Civil War began in July of 1936. If Camus joined the French CP in 1934, it would have nothing to do with Spain. Can someone correct this, somehow? - micahbales 28 May, 2004
Does anyone havve more information on the short story "Guest"? It's typically used in college english courses. - DNewhall
One of Camus's daughters was called Jean? Shouldn't it be Jeanne instead? Jean is a male name (in French). -- Tamas 20:40, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Would it be worth adding a note that his first name is pronounced Alberr? If some people thought his surname was pronounced Cammuss (evident by the "kamoo" note in the first paragraph) then there might well be people who think his first name is pronounced like the English Albert. rob 06:23, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
After some fooling around, I embedded a OGG audio clip. Cgmusselman 07:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC) ___________________________________________________________________________________________
Agree with the the pronunciation guide for Albert to be pronounced /Alberr/! I've seen many people who pronounce it that way. if CamuS is pronounced CamOO then AlberT ought to be pronounced as AlbeR. Egbal.rezayi ( talk) 14:10, 24 September 2010 (UTC) egbal.rezayi
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at the end it says: " Each of these people finds meaning in his or her own pursuits and thus lives up to the example of the Greek mythical figure Sisyphus, who was "condemned" to push a boulder up a hill for eternity fully aware that the boulder would simply fall down the hill as soon as he seemingly finished his task."
What Camus wants to remark in that myth is not the absurd in the "condemn". Instead, he shows that, not regarding of why he've left the Hades, Sisyphus sit at the beach to contemplate the beauty of it.
I take some issue with the explication of L'Etranger, particularly the indication that Mersault is a hero in Camus' eyes. I would argue that he is just the opposite; Mersault is guilty of his crime and deserves to die in the absurdist sense, not because he is insensitive, but because he failed to recognize the absurdity of his life and wrest what little control he might have been able from it. In other words, he is guilty for his passivity, which Camus understandably dispised as a member of the resistance in Vichy France. Even Sisyphus, for that one hour that he is walking back down his mountain is free. On the other hand, Caligula is more the hero for following his absurb logic all the way through; at least he does so consciously and willfully.
I dont think any of Camus' comments describing his own characters should be on wikipedia, especially ambiguous things like the above. It could leave wrong-headed people who haven't read the text for themselves. Fatal misinterpretation is too easy in this kind of writing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.66.242 ( talk) 23:33, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm currently working on a major reconstruction/expansion of Camus' novel, The Fall. I'm attempting to move it from stub status to a complete overview + analysis. If anyone on this page is familiar with the work, the help would be much appreciated! -- Todeswalzer | Talk 20:22, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm after some input from the other people on this page -- does Camus' extended essay, Réfléxions sur la guillotine deserve its own page? This was, of course, the piece of writing (officially, anyway) that earned him the Nobel Prize; for that reason it seems to me to be a curious omission. Any other opinions on the matter? -- Todeswalzer | Talk 02:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I'd say the piece deserves its own page. It did earn him the Nobel prize and fighting against the death penalty was an important part of Camus's life. It should at least be mentioned on the main page, right now its only listed in the bibliography section.
Windmillchaser
22:29, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
If anyone is doing "The Reflections" piece, William Styron has an interesting AND influential piece (as in it saved someone's life) in "This Quiet Dust". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.66.242 ( talk) 23:35, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I hate to imitate in any way that cruel grammar teacher that everyone had at some point in school, but -- I've noticed a consistent error when citing the French titles of Camus' works. Unlike in English, French titles do not capitalize every word, just the first one as though the title were itself a sentence. (Proper names are, of course, still capitalized.) The only exception here is when the first word happens to be a preposition (i.e. "Le", "La", "Les", etc.), which actually isn't much of an "exception" since virtually every French title will have such a word before it. In this case, the preposition is capitalized along with the "first word of substance". So, in English we would write something like, "The First Man"... In French this would be "Le Premier homme". Or, for a more ridiculous example,
Don't ask me to explain why this is done in French: it's just one of those crazy subtleties of the language.
This is probably irrelevent to most people on this page, and probably considered unimportant by even more. However, it makes sense to me to write the titles properly if they're going to be written in their original French. In any event, I'll still keep an eye out ;) -- Todeswalzer | Talk 22:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I DONT KNOW WHERE TO PUT THIS, BUT I BELIEVE THAT ITS FALSE THAT ALBERT CAMUS WAS THE SHORTEST LIVED RECIPIENT FO THE NOBEL PRIZE, I THOUGHT IT TO BE PABLO NERUDA HE DIED TWO YEARS AFTER HE WON THE NOBEL PRIZE FOR LITERATURE, CAMUS DIED THREE YEARS AFTER.
I thought the bold caps were a death warrant. Mersault? Is that you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.66.242 ( talk) 23:36, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I owe a great debt of gratitude to Albert Camus for writing "The Myth of Sysyphus," wherein he shows that even in the worst of circumstances, in the pits of hell, one can still have a little fun, win a little moral victory. Hope you're in Heaven, Albert. Das Baz 17:03, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Wow, I guess that's one interpretation.... And to think I always thought it was about the meaninglessness of life. 208.4.152.130 23:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC) → —The "knowing" smile of Sisyphus was all that Camus had to give us in the middle of all the absurdities of this life. That's how it is to really learn something. We may cover 99.9% of all our travels with total ignorance, but then in an instant--a glimmer of something, an unknown, a point of contact with a reality which we cannot put into words or give away. Emptiness...Camus lived it the best way he could, he didn't just talk it like the existentialist philosophers, the academics did. He's my Man.
"one of the principal luminaries (with Jean-Paul Sartre) of existentialism". I don't think Camus wanted to be called an existentialist or compared to Sartre. Maybe someone could elaborate on this. Piet 13:23, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
My understanding is that Camus and Sartre agreed about existentialism for a while, but Camus started disagreeing when Sartre got too optimistic and political. I don't think Camus really considered himself a philosopher anyway, so maybe it's misleading to say unqualifiedly at the start of the article that he was a philosopher. That said, some of his essays probably are philosophy. Michael Keats 13:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Should there be a philosopher's box here? If so, does anyone know what should go in the boxes.
region = Western Philosophy | era = 20th-century philosophy | color = #B0C4DE |
image_name = Albert Camus.jpg | image_caption = Albert Camus |
name = Albert Camus | birth = November 7, 1913 ( Mondovi, Algeria) | death = January 4, 1960 ( Villeblevin, France) | school_tradition = Existentialism, Absurdism | main_interests = | influences = Søren Kierkegaard, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Franz Kafka | influenced = | notable_ideas = "The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth" |
Is it necessary to attempt translation of his education into the modern day BA/MA ??? This is not very usefull and misleading as the education system in colonial Algiers was not directly comparable to modern day anglo-american degrees!!
-- Hurkummer 08:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
This is not very professional to say. Does anyone know how his mother was Spanish? By this I mean I think the sentence should read something like "His mother was Spanish born in ____" or simply "His mother was Spanish." Perhaps also, "His mother was of Spanish descent."
Someone might want to scribe regarding George Bush & Albert,...
The France angle is especially noteworthy.
Hopiakuta 23:51, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
This is really a great article. Indian Literati 16:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Albert Camus is a Algerian-French writer, not a French writer as stated in the article.
But there is a good point here. This article very much neglects the significance of Algeria in the life of Camus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.90.217.68 ( talk) 00:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Camus was really an philosopher? Some biographies states he quits his philosophy graduation in order to began his carrer as jornalist.
Why is there no picture of Camus on the article? Here's a small one I found on another article:
.
Get someone who can DRAW at least.
They aren't going to go away, which means we really need to find what they've done and change their horrible camera phone pictures and awful sketches back to actual photos.
To the group who is going through the Biographical pages and getting rid of good photos and replacing them with terrible camera pictures, sketches, or other such nonsense: STOP. You're sacrificing the quality of the articles in your quest to make everything perfectly compliant. This is absolutely the stupidest thing I've seen anyone do here in a while. STOP STOP STOP. Manfrin 11:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't the pronunciation of his name be 'kamy' in the IPA? 'kamu' would be Camou or Camous in French Rothorpe 00:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I have a couple points of contention with the article, and perhaps someone can defend it before any revisions are contemplated. First, the article's summary on the Absurd states, "If we accept that life has no meaning and therefore no value, should we kill ourselves?" This is strictly incorrect; in his essay, Camus does not assert that life has no meaning, simply that reason cannot lead us to the meaning. We ask the universe for meaning, but it responds only with indifference. We ask the universe for values; it offers us only facts.
Also, in this section it states that "Meursault, the Absurdist hero of L'Étranger, is a murderer who is executed for his crime." However, Mersault is not executed in The Stranger. In fact, near the end, the priest with whom he has his final encounter suggests that his appeal is likely to succeed.
You're completely missing the point. Mersault isn't accepting responsibility for his own existence. He is simply recognizing the absurdity of his situation and beginning to how he is able to exist in it. In a sense, he is really indifferent to whether he lives or dies by the end of the book. The irony is that Mersault has resigned himself to the fact that he is going to die when, in fact, his appeal might succeed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.174.17 ( talk) 03:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Some say Camus had been an atheist, some say he had been an agnostic. What was he? Does anybody know? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.196.226.86 ( talk) 03:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC).
I don't have the quote handy but I've read and re-read many times Camus' "Resistance, Rebellion, and Death" and he clearly states in one paragraph that he is an agnostic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 98.197.243.24 ( talk) 23:24:18, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
You can actually find agnosticism in much of his work. He often implies that a God could very well exist, but humans will never understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.174.17 ( talk) 03:17, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I am not a registered user and this article is protected. Could someone please add Camus to the category of French agnostics? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.247.166.29 ( talk) 03:17, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I have gone over the cultural influences section and changed it from a list to a writeup format, it looks more like an encyclopedic entry, but are all the references notable? I think maybe the songs should be limited to singles or significant mentions or something along those lines, as I don't think this article should list each and every song that mentions Camus or has lyrics that contain themes or words related to his writings. What do you think? darkskyz 14:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
in order to understand whether Camus is an atheist or an agnostic, one must read his last to novels( the fall, exile and kingdom). i dont prefer to call him an atheist or an agnostic. there is something in that works which some commentators called "repentance." i have read a book affirming that Camus' The Fall "seems to epitomize a complete reversal in Camus' direction of thought." i prefer not to conclude at this moment. for further reading, please read the book "Existentialism: WITH OR WITHOUT GOD" written by Francis j. Lescoe. anyhow, i am writting a thesis at the moment about stressing the same problem as this one. however, my my inquiry is about the posibility of interpreting Camus as a theist. is it possible? please i need your advise and essential insights. visit me at carlojapc@yahoo.com. thank you... —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
125.60.235.203 (
talk)
16:10, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I suggest restructuring the article into the following sections:
Any suggestions?
P.S. This talk page should also be cleaned up, preferably by refactoring.
darkskyz 14:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I completely agree. I've changed the order according to his impact on the fields and offered some subheadings.
The sections "Camus and Orwell" and "Camus and Solidarity" should be removed or incorporated into the literary career section. Laura schnak ( talk) 19:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Restructuring seems warranted. In the meantime, may I suggest rewriting the 'Ideas on the Absurd' section? I added some citations, but the writing in that section still lacks precision and direction. E.g. "Camus presents the reader with dualisms such as happiness and sadness, dark and light, life and death, etc." is 1) true of many, many authors, 2) isn't especially true of Camus, and 3) doesn't particularly support anything which occurs later in this section. Also, Camus tends to use the word "contradiction" rather than "dualism." Cjaywork ( talk) 02:23, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
I have started a discussion regarding the Infobox philosopher template page concerning the "influences" and "influenced" fields. I am in favor of doing away with them. Please join the discussion there. RJC Talk 14:13, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
According to the page "it was there that" Camus and Sartre met." I take "there" to mean at Combat, Camus' resistance newsletter. According to the book "Camus and Sartre" by Ronald Aronson, these two met at Sartre's play "The Flies" in '43. Not sure if they collaborated previously or afterwards in Combat or whether the book is altogether incorrect. Anyone mind clarifying/correcting? Neutralitybias 04:56, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Moreover, the disagreement between Satre and Camus is framed in terms of the opposition of Camus to totalitarianism. This is a gross oversimplification. Their differences were much more complex. For example, Camus never accepted Algerian independence, Sartre argued passionately in favor of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.90.217.68 ( talk) 00:40, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure who this guy is, or why he's listed in the 'influenced' section, but no mention of Camus is made on his page, and I found no citation that could provide any evidence for this insert. Further, I can't even understand how it makes sense that a Catholic advocate of Capitalism could be influenced significantly by Camus - a man who, arguably, was against both of these things. Provisionally, I'm removing this. But if anyone can find any evidence that it shouldn't be, please replace it, but alphabetise it, like the rest. This guy, at best, shouldn't be listed above Sartre, if you don't.-- Soonlaypale 14:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
What's wrong with adding a "Speeches" section and mentioning the "Address at the Nobel Academy of Stockholm 1957"? -- Richard 17:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I think Camus was influenced greatly by the thinkers and philosophes of the Enlightenment. What do you think? - 68.224.117.152 ( talk) 23:41, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
and Obama — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.26.167 ( talk) 16:04, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Can, possibly, anyone answer me why the scholars of Wikipedia have totally deleted any mention in the book Christian Metaphysics and Neoplatonism by Albert Camus, a book which has been in circulation from this February in translation of Ronald D. Srigley? Can someone tell me why Wikipedia deletes the resume of the text of Camus that I wrote, since I have the book, and also has deleted even the title of it??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.49.90.156 ( talk) 09:27, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I wanted to point out that large sections of this article were taken from the website http://www.biblio.com/authors/641/Albert_Camus_Biography.html -- Stronghold1245 —Preceding comment was added at 14:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Albert Camus founded in 1949 the Group for International Liaisons in the Revolutionary Union Movement, according to the book Albert Camus, une vie BY Olivier Todd, a group opposed to the atheist and communistic tendencies of the surrealistic movement of André Breton. (Books are stated to be 'by' an author in English, not 'of' - as in French.)
In the block of data under Camus's photograph, he is listed as having been born in Dréan, Algeria. In the entry under "Early Years" he is listed as having been born in Mondovi, Algeria. Even if both might be correct (such as a town and a region), this is confusing to readers and should be resolved. Dick Kimball ( talk) 16:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
It says The State of Seige "was written together with the novel The Plague and the essay The Rebel. It is the work which—according to Camus himself—represents him best and is a response to George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four." This play was written and performed before Nineteen Eighty Four was published. The novel and essay were published before Orwell's work as well. The article is a bit misleading. 98.221.133.96 ( talk) 09:49, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
...somewhere in my travels, i read that Camus died instantly of a broken neck in the car crash which killed him and someone noted that the dashboard clock was broken at the time of the crash, which presumably recorded his exact time of death...anyone have this interesting info to add to the article? here's a picture of the type of car (i have seen the actual crashed car also, but can't seem to find that now, either... http://s4-us2.ixquick.nl/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&cat=pics&c=pf&q=camus+crash+car&h=199&w=360&th=91&tw=165&fn=c127-vin.jpg&fs=16%20k&el=bing_pics&tu=http:%2F%2Fimages1-us2.ixquick.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsf%3Ff%3Dd079c44f8d815ef8c35cbe02ac5de4d3.jpg%26anticache%3D266951&rl=NONE&u=http:%2F%2Fwww.californiaclassix.com%2Farchive%2F61_Facel_Vega_c127.html&rid=LILMQMQOLSSQ&oiu=http:%2F%2Fwww.californiaclassix.com%2Fimages%2Fc127-vin.jpg
monument... http://s4-us2.ixquick.nl/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&cat=pics&c=pf&q=camus+car+crash&h=600&w=750&th=132&tw=165&fn=750px-Camus_Monument_in_Villeblevin_France_17-august-2003.4.JPG&fs=94 k&el=bing_pics_2&tu=http:%2F%2Fimages3-us2.ixquick.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsf%3Ff%3D2e824fce80b66989cd4e50fce25e3622.jpg%26anticache%3D67190&rl=NONE&u=http:%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FImage:Camus_Monument_in_Villeblevin_France_17-august-2003.4.JPG&rid=LCLMQMQOLRRT&oiu=http:%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F2%2F2e%2FCamus_Monument_in_Villeblevin_France_17-august-2003.4.JPG%2F750px-Camus_Monument_in_Villeblevin_France_17-august-2003.4.JPG grave... http://farm1.static.flickr.com/94/230155968_8bd2e62fe9.jpg http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/media/iot_albertcamus.jpg http://s4-us2.ixquick.nl/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&cat=pics&c=pf&q=camus+car+crash&h=227&w=325&th=115&tw=165&fn=camus-home-grave.jpg&fs=30 k&el=bing_pics&tu=http:%2F%2Fimages4-us2.ixquick.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsf%3Ff%3D6cb4a56b1ac1e82f0bbe865e93d80cc7.jpg%26anticache%3D26326&rl=NONE&u=http:%2F%2Fphilosophy.lander.edu%2Fintro%2Fintrobook2.1%2Fx2981.html&rid=LELMQMQOMMLR&oiu=http:%2F%2Fphilosophy.lander.edu%2Fintro%2Fintrobook2.1%2Fimages1%2Fcamus-home-grave.jpg
the intersection... http://www.creativereview.co.uk/images/uploads/2009/09/albertcamusjan4th_0.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.213.22.193 ( talk) 22:02, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
I was doing some searches based on this article, and it seems the section "Revolutionary Union Movement and the European Union" is plagiarized from page 1945 of The plague by Albert Camus, a section of the book with the same title. -- 151.201.146.118 ( talk) 12:02, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
The article says, "Requiem for a Nun (Requiem pour une nonne, adapted from William Faulkner's novel by the same name) (1956)" - Can the date be correct? On Oct. 20, 1955 (cf. http://www.chroniknet.de/daly_de.0.html?year=1955&month=10 ) (according to other sources even a little earlier on Oct. 9) the Zurich Schaupielhaus staged the play's world première in a German translation. But was this a translation of Camus' dramatization? Who might have info? -- Marschner ( talk) 18:44, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I suggest we cut the "Cultural influences" section. It is mostly a list of songs inspired by Camus. Every famous artist has hundreds of people who are inspired by their work. The list is not comprehensive or notable, in my view. WP:TRIV says "Trivia sections should be avoided." Thanks Spanglej ( talk) 03:30, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps I did not read the article closely enough, but it did not seem clear to me where he was living, say, after the War. Back to Algeria? Continental France? Varlaam ( talk) 05:24, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
"In 1947–48 he founded the Revolutionary Union Movement (Groupes de liaison internationale – GLI) a trade union movement in the context of revolutionary syndicalism (Syndicalisme révolutionnaire). According to Olivier Todd, in his biography, Albert Camus, une vie, it was a group opposed to some tendencies of the Surrealist movement of André Breton."
This suggests that Groupes de liaison internationale is a translation of "Revolutionary Union Movement", which of course it isn't. What was the actual name of this group? Secondly, why would a trade union movement have a position on the surrealist tendencies of André Breton? Even in France, this seems unlikely. This needs to be explained. Intelligent Mr Toad ( talk) 06:34, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
The idea that Camus witnessed the death of Péri (in Fort Mont-Valérien?) requires a citation. Mark Orme, in The Development of Albert Camus's Concern for Social and Political Justice writes that, "one should treat with caution Camus's own recollection that he joined forces with the Resistance movement upon reading, in Lyons, of the death of the influential communist leader Gabriel Peri...". (p. 238) This seems an altogether more likely scenario to me. Péri is not mentioned in the French article about Camus. William Avery ( talk) 22:04, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Does anyone know of sources supporting the assertion that Camus was a pacifist? Wnjr ( talk) 15:07, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
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Why is the reference to the "Group for International Liaisons" considered important enough to be in the summary section of this article, but not mentioned again anywhere else? Also, it makes it appear as if he's denouncing capitalism and communism, when he's actually denouncing an "idolatry of technology" in both the USA and USSR (source for this is the same source used in the article). Unsure if it's important enough to include why it's stripped of context. MC152 ( talk) 19:46, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
I provided a good source about having affairs with anarchism. Do you prefer to use blogs instead of Peter Marshall?
I also added simple facts about his relations with socialist party in 1953. His view about USSR in 1944. And his view about Algeria based in anarchist historian Peter Marshall and a scientific paper.
what is the problem again? Why i ve been reverted? I will go to ani if this is not explained. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 04:42, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Pls stop the edit warring. Cinadon36 ( talk) 06:54, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
So you deleted simple facts based on peter Marshall with this excuse. As you wish. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 07:59, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Can someone add something about Camus as an anarchist? orelse i hope we wont add something without sources. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 13:35, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
Just to be clear, the article does not claim that Camus was an anarchist, but "became associated with the French anarchist movement" Here is another article that deals with this issue: Albert Camus and the Anarchist Alternative Peter Dunwoodie Related information1 Goldsmiths' College, University of London https://doi.org/10.3828/AJFS.30.1.84. [4] There 's also another interesting article ( Dadoun, R. (1986) Albert Camus: Fondations d’anarchie in J. Guérin (ed.) Camus et la politique, pp. 257–67.) but I can not spot it on the web. Cinadon36 ( talk) 09:07, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Concerning this edit [5] by Αντικαθεστωτικός, there is no consensus to remove him from that list. BBC lists him as an anarchist, [6] his philosophy has been categorized as existential anarchism, so I do not see any reason for [ this edit. Cinadon36 ( talk) 12:11, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
the writer claims that Camus was close to anarchism, but NOT an anarchist.Marshall is not saying he was NOT an anarchist. That is your conclusion. Cinadon36 ( talk) 06:57, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Finally, cinadon36 brought a RS. Case solved for me. He is considered as anarchist for some people, so its ok. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 12:30, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Can anyone fix "see also" section? Cinadon36 ( talk) 18:25, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
But rather than developing his anarcho-syndicalist sympathies, Camus soon veered in the opposite direction. In the 1955 elections, he supported the campaign of Mendel-France and called for a French Labour Party.
Camus by extension chose his tribe, his nation and his race. As a result, he remained faithful to his roots, a left-wing colonialist
{{sfn|Marshall|1993|p=584}}
If not enough, please ask for more. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 15:20, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Instead of searching for labels, we should strive to explain his political (and philosophical) thought based on RSs discussing Camus. Cinadon36 ( talk) 20:28, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
For Camus, this claim is ultimately grounded in human nature itself, which, among other things, is characterized by a strong impulse toward both spontaneity and creativity, and his commitment to a radically democratic (“bottom up”) form of political organization, as manifested in revolutionary trade-unionism or the Paris Commune of 1871, is, arguably, most in keeping with this fundamental condition of human flourishing. Politically, therefore, whether in 1944 or 1954, Camus is best understood as a libertarian socialist or, more exactly, an anarcho-syndicalist (anarcho-syndicalism being the theory that politics should begin with voluntary associations of cooperative, labor-based groups rather than the state).
Wonderful source. That kind of stuff i was searching from the beginning. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 12:27, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
But, now i saw the years. Peter Marshall says that he had relations in Socialist Party and he was a Socialist since 1953. Do you wish to bring more facts about this? So what now? Is Peter Marshall a RS and we should include his view? I think this is a big confict. Also we must add something about his support for a France occupied Algeria. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 20:49, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
I have to mention that maybe it was common in France to be an anarcho-syndicalist and also a supporter of Colonial France as Camus was. So maybe David Sherman has right -i am not sure- or maybe Peter Marshall has right and since 1950 he became an Socialist. In any way i don't know, but i think we must present all the views of RS, and not only those that mention that he was an anarchist. I hope you will agree. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 15:30, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Ι 'd suggest we stick to Sherman as his work is on Camus. Marshall, on the other hand, examines the history of anarchism from day one to the end of the 20th century. Cinadon36 ( talk) 21:30, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Text at the article: When Camus was asked in the 1950s by an alumnus sports magazine for a few words regarding his time with the RUA, his response included the following: "After many years during which I saw many things, what I know most surely about morality and the duty of man I owe to sport and learned it in the RUA." Camus was referring to a sort of simplistic morality he wrote about in his early essays, the principle of sticking up for your friends, of valuing bravery and fair-play. Camus's belief was that political and religious authorities try to confuse us with over-complicated moral systems to make things appear more complex than they really are, potentially to serve their own needs.
Source
Very Well said, but it is a CLOP violation. Moreover, I am not very certain whether Camus-Society.Com is RS. Cinadon36 ( talk) 13:26, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Any idea? Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 12:56, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
It is presented and it is not true that Camus was related to anarchism during 1937-1944 and 1953- death.
I provided sources that proves that he was ~popular front pioneer during 1937-1944 and source that he was a socialist in his late life. But i am reverted for some reasons.
Please provide some sources that proves that Camus was indeed related to anarchism for these periods.
Also, please let Peter Marshall (historian) view to add it in the article. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 08:46, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
This article claims: "He again allied with the anarchists in 1956, first in support of the workers' uprising in Poznań, Poland, and then later with the Hungarian Revolution'"
but peter Marshall for the same period says that he was related to socialist party and he: He had reached the classic liberal defence of parliamentary democracy."
so who has right here? unsourced material or Peter Marshall?
Αντικαθεστωτικός (
talk)
09:07, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Why dont you place a tag ie {{ unsourced}} next to it? As for Marshall, why don't you mention title, year, publisher and page? Cinadon36 ( talk) 10:56, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
{{cn}}
at the end of the sentence.
Cinadon36 (
talk)
11:27, 4 May 2019 (UTC)There is a claim into this article ", which got him into trouble with his Communist party comrades, who in 1937 denounced him as a Trotskyite and expelled him from the party. Camus then became associated with the French anarchist movement."
Please give me a RS about this claim. Cause Peter Marshall~ 1937-1944~suggests that during this period he was close to popular front politics.
Just tell me the numbers of the citations. p.e :BBC link was nothing about this, unfortunately. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 11:42, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
There are four refs following that particular sentence. Cinadon36 ( talk) 12:01, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Concerning this edit [7], does anyone have access to Isaac's book? Seems to me that xiv indicates a page within the book. Cinadon36 ( talk) 07:14, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Camus then became associated with the French anarchist movement.There are many comments like "[Arendt and Camus] ... retained many left-wing commitments, especially an affinity with anarchist politics" (p 14), "Arendt and Camus are best thought of as democrats of an anarchist stripe" (p 19), "a libertarian, anarchist version of democratic politics" (p 139), "radical democratic politics with a marked anarchist strain" (p 140), "anarchist and syndicalist politics inspired their political thinking" (p 149), "Camus's Notebooks make clear that this Mediterranean anarchist spirit, along with its Russian cousin, is a chief source of inspiration" (p 149) and more of the same. Not one single word about actual association with any movement, only about inspiration. -- T*U ( talk) 10:52, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Here: "Camus would later be associated with the French anarchist movement."
It's from
Biography.com. I won't add it back coz biography.com doesnt look like RS to me. If it is a valid sentence, I 'll surely find info elsewhere.
Cinadon
36
18:36, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
I think "Philosophy professor David Sherman" is sufficient. Merely stating the name is not enough, while stating the workplace seems too long. Cinadon 36 18:24, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Albert Camus has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
1st paragraph, last sentence of "Young Camus", current version:
Camus, was a womanizer throughout his life.
Comma is unnecessary. PB57 ( talk) 23:12, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
Done
Jonpatterns (
talk)
21:00, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
At intro: "Camus tried to flee"--> there is no citation because I feel there is no need for it. Intro summarizes the main body of the text. See first sentences of section "World War II, Resistance and Combat". Cinadon 36 22:20, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
Here also, Combat was banned from the Nazis as it was part of the resistance. Maybe "outlawed" is not the best word available? "Banned" would be better? Cinadon 36 22:20, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 18:27, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Appears fairly long but well-written. Sorry it had to wait so long. I will post my comments soon :) Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 18:27, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Well-written and grammatically accurate on the whole. A few queries and suggestions:
French Algerian philosopherWhy not use a single link to French Algeria?
He won the Nobel Prize in Literature at the age of 44 in 1957, the second-youngest recipient in history.Would be good to mention the first one too
He was in Paris when the Germans invaded FranceMaybe provide the year here? Also for
During the Algerian War
Camus was politically active. He was part of the Left that opposed the Soviet Union because of its totalitarianismThese two lines would look better if combined by a semicolon or an emdash.
Spanish-(Balearic) descentWhy the brackets?
Hence, he was called pied-noirHere 'pied-noir' is in italics, but not in the lead. Any one format should be used conysistently.
In 1933, he also met Simone HiéWas she someone he met at college? Any background to that?
and had not read Das Kapital (Capital)Sounds a bit like reading this book should commonly precede the generation of communist belief.
Because of his tuberculosis, he was forced to move to the French AlpsNot sure why he moved, was it his health? Could be clarified.
Lettres à un ami allemand (Letters to a German Friend)Should the German name also be in title case like the English one?
Comité français pour la féderation européenneShould be in italics and probably title case
The second was an unfinished novel, Le Premier homme (The First Man)'H' in homme (There might be other instances)
The publication of this book in 1994 has sparked a widespread reconsideration of Camus's allegedly unrepentant colonialismI don't see why this needs to be a separate paragraph, looks better if merged with the previous one.
The rest looks good to me. Thanks for this interesting read :) Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 16:55, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Well then, everything looks great :) Promoted! Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 22:04, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Many thanks Sainsf for taking this GAN. I 'd also like to thank you for your comments and points- the article looks much better now. Cinadon 36 08:25, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Are we really wedded to the current citation style? It's not the usual on wikipedia, although the actual rule is that anything understandable is acceptable and this does meet that, kinda. But I have only ever seen it before in college papers, and never for a mainstream news publication such as the Guardian. I am not prepared to change it at the moment, or argue about it, again for the moment, but it does strike me as very extremely Not Ideal, and I am curious as to where it comes from. Elinruby ( talk) 22:56, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
Give me some time and I ll answer your very interesting questions. Cinadon 36 18:54, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
I like shortened footnotes. Especially when a source is used many times- but different page, this kind of footnote is very handy. I find that it is easier to edit an article when shortened footnotes are in use. Cinadon 36 22:25, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
editorial quibble: "Because it is a transmitted disease, he moved out of his home and stayed with his uncle Gustave Acault, a butcher, who influenced the young Camus."
I have not changed anything here at the moment since I am don't know the details necessary to fix this, but something should preferably be done about this sentence. The tuberculosis is probably important. It should be mentioned, but the actual reason for the move should be better explained. Perhaps the uncle lived in a more rural and healthful location? I assume the reason he didn't go to a sanitarium was financial. A quibble, but one which should be addressed if someone knows the answer. Elinruby ( talk) 23:10, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
I removed this text from behind Groupes de liason internationale, since its placement indicated a translation, which it is not, at least not literally. I am unable to assess what should be done about this. Is there an english-language affiliated organization by that name? If it is intended as a description, it should probably be cited, and lower case. Leaving here as a question for now. Elinruby ( talk) 00:15, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
Ok, cool. Cinadon 36 22:51, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Hmm, I was searching Google and stumbled across this site: http://www.biblio.com/authors/641/Albert_Camus_Biography.html I see "a few" similarities to this article :) Who's copying who? Hopefully someone didn't cut and paste this whole article from that site...
Any ideas? -- Smileyborg 04:28, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
re The Outsider: Should this not be The Stranger?
Good question. Literally "L'Étranger", translates as the stranger, but the outsider is the usual accepted translation of the name of this work, and it does so much better seem to sum up the condition of Meursault, the novel's protagonist. sjc
Is it not only coincidental though that "outsider" doesn't just mean "emmigrant/immigrant" or more accurately "foreigner" in english? I think "The Stranger" is a much more beautiful and elusive title, and it would stave off confusion from that completely different book by Hinton "The Outsiders". I do believe, though, we should label it in french first in the article and then have the two translations below it. How would that sound? It worked for some of Balzac's and de Maupassant's work and it would avoid ambiguity to anybody who was more than skim-reading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.66.242 ( talk) 23:26, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Apparently, the old translation by Stuart Gilbert was called The Outsider. The newer translation by Matthew Ward is named The Stranger. From what I have read, the difference in wording is the subject of some dispute.
It would be great if someone who has read The Myth of Sysiphus could elaborate on Absurdism (and the boundaries between Absurdism and Existentialism).
I don't know what this means, but I've moved it here from the limit article, which I'm about to change a good deal:
Hey... Look at this line: "Camus joined the French Communist Party in 1934, apparently because of the Spanish Civil War, rather than support for Marxist-Leninist doctrine."
This can't possibly be right. The Spanish Civil War began in July of 1936. If Camus joined the French CP in 1934, it would have nothing to do with Spain. Can someone correct this, somehow? - micahbales 28 May, 2004
Does anyone havve more information on the short story "Guest"? It's typically used in college english courses. - DNewhall
One of Camus's daughters was called Jean? Shouldn't it be Jeanne instead? Jean is a male name (in French). -- Tamas 20:40, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Would it be worth adding a note that his first name is pronounced Alberr? If some people thought his surname was pronounced Cammuss (evident by the "kamoo" note in the first paragraph) then there might well be people who think his first name is pronounced like the English Albert. rob 06:23, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
After some fooling around, I embedded a OGG audio clip. Cgmusselman 07:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC) ___________________________________________________________________________________________
Agree with the the pronunciation guide for Albert to be pronounced /Alberr/! I've seen many people who pronounce it that way. if CamuS is pronounced CamOO then AlberT ought to be pronounced as AlbeR. Egbal.rezayi ( talk) 14:10, 24 September 2010 (UTC) egbal.rezayi
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at the end it says: " Each of these people finds meaning in his or her own pursuits and thus lives up to the example of the Greek mythical figure Sisyphus, who was "condemned" to push a boulder up a hill for eternity fully aware that the boulder would simply fall down the hill as soon as he seemingly finished his task."
What Camus wants to remark in that myth is not the absurd in the "condemn". Instead, he shows that, not regarding of why he've left the Hades, Sisyphus sit at the beach to contemplate the beauty of it.
I take some issue with the explication of L'Etranger, particularly the indication that Mersault is a hero in Camus' eyes. I would argue that he is just the opposite; Mersault is guilty of his crime and deserves to die in the absurdist sense, not because he is insensitive, but because he failed to recognize the absurdity of his life and wrest what little control he might have been able from it. In other words, he is guilty for his passivity, which Camus understandably dispised as a member of the resistance in Vichy France. Even Sisyphus, for that one hour that he is walking back down his mountain is free. On the other hand, Caligula is more the hero for following his absurb logic all the way through; at least he does so consciously and willfully.
I dont think any of Camus' comments describing his own characters should be on wikipedia, especially ambiguous things like the above. It could leave wrong-headed people who haven't read the text for themselves. Fatal misinterpretation is too easy in this kind of writing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.66.242 ( talk) 23:33, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm currently working on a major reconstruction/expansion of Camus' novel, The Fall. I'm attempting to move it from stub status to a complete overview + analysis. If anyone on this page is familiar with the work, the help would be much appreciated! -- Todeswalzer | Talk 20:22, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm after some input from the other people on this page -- does Camus' extended essay, Réfléxions sur la guillotine deserve its own page? This was, of course, the piece of writing (officially, anyway) that earned him the Nobel Prize; for that reason it seems to me to be a curious omission. Any other opinions on the matter? -- Todeswalzer | Talk 02:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I'd say the piece deserves its own page. It did earn him the Nobel prize and fighting against the death penalty was an important part of Camus's life. It should at least be mentioned on the main page, right now its only listed in the bibliography section.
Windmillchaser
22:29, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
If anyone is doing "The Reflections" piece, William Styron has an interesting AND influential piece (as in it saved someone's life) in "This Quiet Dust". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.66.242 ( talk) 23:35, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I hate to imitate in any way that cruel grammar teacher that everyone had at some point in school, but -- I've noticed a consistent error when citing the French titles of Camus' works. Unlike in English, French titles do not capitalize every word, just the first one as though the title were itself a sentence. (Proper names are, of course, still capitalized.) The only exception here is when the first word happens to be a preposition (i.e. "Le", "La", "Les", etc.), which actually isn't much of an "exception" since virtually every French title will have such a word before it. In this case, the preposition is capitalized along with the "first word of substance". So, in English we would write something like, "The First Man"... In French this would be "Le Premier homme". Or, for a more ridiculous example,
Don't ask me to explain why this is done in French: it's just one of those crazy subtleties of the language.
This is probably irrelevent to most people on this page, and probably considered unimportant by even more. However, it makes sense to me to write the titles properly if they're going to be written in their original French. In any event, I'll still keep an eye out ;) -- Todeswalzer | Talk 22:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I DONT KNOW WHERE TO PUT THIS, BUT I BELIEVE THAT ITS FALSE THAT ALBERT CAMUS WAS THE SHORTEST LIVED RECIPIENT FO THE NOBEL PRIZE, I THOUGHT IT TO BE PABLO NERUDA HE DIED TWO YEARS AFTER HE WON THE NOBEL PRIZE FOR LITERATURE, CAMUS DIED THREE YEARS AFTER.
I thought the bold caps were a death warrant. Mersault? Is that you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.66.242 ( talk) 23:36, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I owe a great debt of gratitude to Albert Camus for writing "The Myth of Sysyphus," wherein he shows that even in the worst of circumstances, in the pits of hell, one can still have a little fun, win a little moral victory. Hope you're in Heaven, Albert. Das Baz 17:03, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Wow, I guess that's one interpretation.... And to think I always thought it was about the meaninglessness of life. 208.4.152.130 23:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC) → —The "knowing" smile of Sisyphus was all that Camus had to give us in the middle of all the absurdities of this life. That's how it is to really learn something. We may cover 99.9% of all our travels with total ignorance, but then in an instant--a glimmer of something, an unknown, a point of contact with a reality which we cannot put into words or give away. Emptiness...Camus lived it the best way he could, he didn't just talk it like the existentialist philosophers, the academics did. He's my Man.
"one of the principal luminaries (with Jean-Paul Sartre) of existentialism". I don't think Camus wanted to be called an existentialist or compared to Sartre. Maybe someone could elaborate on this. Piet 13:23, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
My understanding is that Camus and Sartre agreed about existentialism for a while, but Camus started disagreeing when Sartre got too optimistic and political. I don't think Camus really considered himself a philosopher anyway, so maybe it's misleading to say unqualifiedly at the start of the article that he was a philosopher. That said, some of his essays probably are philosophy. Michael Keats 13:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
Should there be a philosopher's box here? If so, does anyone know what should go in the boxes.
region = Western Philosophy | era = 20th-century philosophy | color = #B0C4DE |
image_name = Albert Camus.jpg | image_caption = Albert Camus |
name = Albert Camus | birth = November 7, 1913 ( Mondovi, Algeria) | death = January 4, 1960 ( Villeblevin, France) | school_tradition = Existentialism, Absurdism | main_interests = | influences = Søren Kierkegaard, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Franz Kafka | influenced = | notable_ideas = "The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth" |
Is it necessary to attempt translation of his education into the modern day BA/MA ??? This is not very usefull and misleading as the education system in colonial Algiers was not directly comparable to modern day anglo-american degrees!!
-- Hurkummer 08:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
This is not very professional to say. Does anyone know how his mother was Spanish? By this I mean I think the sentence should read something like "His mother was Spanish born in ____" or simply "His mother was Spanish." Perhaps also, "His mother was of Spanish descent."
Someone might want to scribe regarding George Bush & Albert,...
The France angle is especially noteworthy.
Hopiakuta 23:51, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
This is really a great article. Indian Literati 16:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Albert Camus is a Algerian-French writer, not a French writer as stated in the article.
But there is a good point here. This article very much neglects the significance of Algeria in the life of Camus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.90.217.68 ( talk) 00:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Camus was really an philosopher? Some biographies states he quits his philosophy graduation in order to began his carrer as jornalist.
Why is there no picture of Camus on the article? Here's a small one I found on another article:
.
Get someone who can DRAW at least.
They aren't going to go away, which means we really need to find what they've done and change their horrible camera phone pictures and awful sketches back to actual photos.
To the group who is going through the Biographical pages and getting rid of good photos and replacing them with terrible camera pictures, sketches, or other such nonsense: STOP. You're sacrificing the quality of the articles in your quest to make everything perfectly compliant. This is absolutely the stupidest thing I've seen anyone do here in a while. STOP STOP STOP. Manfrin 11:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't the pronunciation of his name be 'kamy' in the IPA? 'kamu' would be Camou or Camous in French Rothorpe 00:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I have a couple points of contention with the article, and perhaps someone can defend it before any revisions are contemplated. First, the article's summary on the Absurd states, "If we accept that life has no meaning and therefore no value, should we kill ourselves?" This is strictly incorrect; in his essay, Camus does not assert that life has no meaning, simply that reason cannot lead us to the meaning. We ask the universe for meaning, but it responds only with indifference. We ask the universe for values; it offers us only facts.
Also, in this section it states that "Meursault, the Absurdist hero of L'Étranger, is a murderer who is executed for his crime." However, Mersault is not executed in The Stranger. In fact, near the end, the priest with whom he has his final encounter suggests that his appeal is likely to succeed.
You're completely missing the point. Mersault isn't accepting responsibility for his own existence. He is simply recognizing the absurdity of his situation and beginning to how he is able to exist in it. In a sense, he is really indifferent to whether he lives or dies by the end of the book. The irony is that Mersault has resigned himself to the fact that he is going to die when, in fact, his appeal might succeed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.174.17 ( talk) 03:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Some say Camus had been an atheist, some say he had been an agnostic. What was he? Does anybody know? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.196.226.86 ( talk) 03:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC).
I don't have the quote handy but I've read and re-read many times Camus' "Resistance, Rebellion, and Death" and he clearly states in one paragraph that he is an agnostic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 98.197.243.24 ( talk) 23:24:18, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
You can actually find agnosticism in much of his work. He often implies that a God could very well exist, but humans will never understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.174.17 ( talk) 03:17, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I am not a registered user and this article is protected. Could someone please add Camus to the category of French agnostics? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.247.166.29 ( talk) 03:17, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I have gone over the cultural influences section and changed it from a list to a writeup format, it looks more like an encyclopedic entry, but are all the references notable? I think maybe the songs should be limited to singles or significant mentions or something along those lines, as I don't think this article should list each and every song that mentions Camus or has lyrics that contain themes or words related to his writings. What do you think? darkskyz 14:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
in order to understand whether Camus is an atheist or an agnostic, one must read his last to novels( the fall, exile and kingdom). i dont prefer to call him an atheist or an agnostic. there is something in that works which some commentators called "repentance." i have read a book affirming that Camus' The Fall "seems to epitomize a complete reversal in Camus' direction of thought." i prefer not to conclude at this moment. for further reading, please read the book "Existentialism: WITH OR WITHOUT GOD" written by Francis j. Lescoe. anyhow, i am writting a thesis at the moment about stressing the same problem as this one. however, my my inquiry is about the posibility of interpreting Camus as a theist. is it possible? please i need your advise and essential insights. visit me at carlojapc@yahoo.com. thank you... —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
125.60.235.203 (
talk)
16:10, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I suggest restructuring the article into the following sections:
Any suggestions?
P.S. This talk page should also be cleaned up, preferably by refactoring.
darkskyz 14:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I completely agree. I've changed the order according to his impact on the fields and offered some subheadings.
The sections "Camus and Orwell" and "Camus and Solidarity" should be removed or incorporated into the literary career section. Laura schnak ( talk) 19:48, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Restructuring seems warranted. In the meantime, may I suggest rewriting the 'Ideas on the Absurd' section? I added some citations, but the writing in that section still lacks precision and direction. E.g. "Camus presents the reader with dualisms such as happiness and sadness, dark and light, life and death, etc." is 1) true of many, many authors, 2) isn't especially true of Camus, and 3) doesn't particularly support anything which occurs later in this section. Also, Camus tends to use the word "contradiction" rather than "dualism." Cjaywork ( talk) 02:23, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
I have started a discussion regarding the Infobox philosopher template page concerning the "influences" and "influenced" fields. I am in favor of doing away with them. Please join the discussion there. RJC Talk 14:13, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
According to the page "it was there that" Camus and Sartre met." I take "there" to mean at Combat, Camus' resistance newsletter. According to the book "Camus and Sartre" by Ronald Aronson, these two met at Sartre's play "The Flies" in '43. Not sure if they collaborated previously or afterwards in Combat or whether the book is altogether incorrect. Anyone mind clarifying/correcting? Neutralitybias 04:56, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Moreover, the disagreement between Satre and Camus is framed in terms of the opposition of Camus to totalitarianism. This is a gross oversimplification. Their differences were much more complex. For example, Camus never accepted Algerian independence, Sartre argued passionately in favor of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.90.217.68 ( talk) 00:40, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure who this guy is, or why he's listed in the 'influenced' section, but no mention of Camus is made on his page, and I found no citation that could provide any evidence for this insert. Further, I can't even understand how it makes sense that a Catholic advocate of Capitalism could be influenced significantly by Camus - a man who, arguably, was against both of these things. Provisionally, I'm removing this. But if anyone can find any evidence that it shouldn't be, please replace it, but alphabetise it, like the rest. This guy, at best, shouldn't be listed above Sartre, if you don't.-- Soonlaypale 14:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
What's wrong with adding a "Speeches" section and mentioning the "Address at the Nobel Academy of Stockholm 1957"? -- Richard 17:10, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I think Camus was influenced greatly by the thinkers and philosophes of the Enlightenment. What do you think? - 68.224.117.152 ( talk) 23:41, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
and Obama — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.26.167 ( talk) 16:04, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Can, possibly, anyone answer me why the scholars of Wikipedia have totally deleted any mention in the book Christian Metaphysics and Neoplatonism by Albert Camus, a book which has been in circulation from this February in translation of Ronald D. Srigley? Can someone tell me why Wikipedia deletes the resume of the text of Camus that I wrote, since I have the book, and also has deleted even the title of it??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.49.90.156 ( talk) 09:27, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
I wanted to point out that large sections of this article were taken from the website http://www.biblio.com/authors/641/Albert_Camus_Biography.html -- Stronghold1245 —Preceding comment was added at 14:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Albert Camus founded in 1949 the Group for International Liaisons in the Revolutionary Union Movement, according to the book Albert Camus, une vie BY Olivier Todd, a group opposed to the atheist and communistic tendencies of the surrealistic movement of André Breton. (Books are stated to be 'by' an author in English, not 'of' - as in French.)
In the block of data under Camus's photograph, he is listed as having been born in Dréan, Algeria. In the entry under "Early Years" he is listed as having been born in Mondovi, Algeria. Even if both might be correct (such as a town and a region), this is confusing to readers and should be resolved. Dick Kimball ( talk) 16:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
It says The State of Seige "was written together with the novel The Plague and the essay The Rebel. It is the work which—according to Camus himself—represents him best and is a response to George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four." This play was written and performed before Nineteen Eighty Four was published. The novel and essay were published before Orwell's work as well. The article is a bit misleading. 98.221.133.96 ( talk) 09:49, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
...somewhere in my travels, i read that Camus died instantly of a broken neck in the car crash which killed him and someone noted that the dashboard clock was broken at the time of the crash, which presumably recorded his exact time of death...anyone have this interesting info to add to the article? here's a picture of the type of car (i have seen the actual crashed car also, but can't seem to find that now, either... http://s4-us2.ixquick.nl/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&cat=pics&c=pf&q=camus+crash+car&h=199&w=360&th=91&tw=165&fn=c127-vin.jpg&fs=16%20k&el=bing_pics&tu=http:%2F%2Fimages1-us2.ixquick.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsf%3Ff%3Dd079c44f8d815ef8c35cbe02ac5de4d3.jpg%26anticache%3D266951&rl=NONE&u=http:%2F%2Fwww.californiaclassix.com%2Farchive%2F61_Facel_Vega_c127.html&rid=LILMQMQOLSSQ&oiu=http:%2F%2Fwww.californiaclassix.com%2Fimages%2Fc127-vin.jpg
monument... http://s4-us2.ixquick.nl/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&cat=pics&c=pf&q=camus+car+crash&h=600&w=750&th=132&tw=165&fn=750px-Camus_Monument_in_Villeblevin_France_17-august-2003.4.JPG&fs=94 k&el=bing_pics_2&tu=http:%2F%2Fimages3-us2.ixquick.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsf%3Ff%3D2e824fce80b66989cd4e50fce25e3622.jpg%26anticache%3D67190&rl=NONE&u=http:%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FImage:Camus_Monument_in_Villeblevin_France_17-august-2003.4.JPG&rid=LCLMQMQOLRRT&oiu=http:%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F2%2F2e%2FCamus_Monument_in_Villeblevin_France_17-august-2003.4.JPG%2F750px-Camus_Monument_in_Villeblevin_France_17-august-2003.4.JPG grave... http://farm1.static.flickr.com/94/230155968_8bd2e62fe9.jpg http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/media/iot_albertcamus.jpg http://s4-us2.ixquick.nl/do/show_picture.pl?l=english&cat=pics&c=pf&q=camus+car+crash&h=227&w=325&th=115&tw=165&fn=camus-home-grave.jpg&fs=30 k&el=bing_pics&tu=http:%2F%2Fimages4-us2.ixquick.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsf%3Ff%3D6cb4a56b1ac1e82f0bbe865e93d80cc7.jpg%26anticache%3D26326&rl=NONE&u=http:%2F%2Fphilosophy.lander.edu%2Fintro%2Fintrobook2.1%2Fx2981.html&rid=LELMQMQOMMLR&oiu=http:%2F%2Fphilosophy.lander.edu%2Fintro%2Fintrobook2.1%2Fimages1%2Fcamus-home-grave.jpg
the intersection... http://www.creativereview.co.uk/images/uploads/2009/09/albertcamusjan4th_0.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.213.22.193 ( talk) 22:02, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
I was doing some searches based on this article, and it seems the section "Revolutionary Union Movement and the European Union" is plagiarized from page 1945 of The plague by Albert Camus, a section of the book with the same title. -- 151.201.146.118 ( talk) 12:02, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
The article says, "Requiem for a Nun (Requiem pour une nonne, adapted from William Faulkner's novel by the same name) (1956)" - Can the date be correct? On Oct. 20, 1955 (cf. http://www.chroniknet.de/daly_de.0.html?year=1955&month=10 ) (according to other sources even a little earlier on Oct. 9) the Zurich Schaupielhaus staged the play's world première in a German translation. But was this a translation of Camus' dramatization? Who might have info? -- Marschner ( talk) 18:44, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
I suggest we cut the "Cultural influences" section. It is mostly a list of songs inspired by Camus. Every famous artist has hundreds of people who are inspired by their work. The list is not comprehensive or notable, in my view. WP:TRIV says "Trivia sections should be avoided." Thanks Spanglej ( talk) 03:30, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps I did not read the article closely enough, but it did not seem clear to me where he was living, say, after the War. Back to Algeria? Continental France? Varlaam ( talk) 05:24, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
"In 1947–48 he founded the Revolutionary Union Movement (Groupes de liaison internationale – GLI) a trade union movement in the context of revolutionary syndicalism (Syndicalisme révolutionnaire). According to Olivier Todd, in his biography, Albert Camus, une vie, it was a group opposed to some tendencies of the Surrealist movement of André Breton."
This suggests that Groupes de liaison internationale is a translation of "Revolutionary Union Movement", which of course it isn't. What was the actual name of this group? Secondly, why would a trade union movement have a position on the surrealist tendencies of André Breton? Even in France, this seems unlikely. This needs to be explained. Intelligent Mr Toad ( talk) 06:34, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
The idea that Camus witnessed the death of Péri (in Fort Mont-Valérien?) requires a citation. Mark Orme, in The Development of Albert Camus's Concern for Social and Political Justice writes that, "one should treat with caution Camus's own recollection that he joined forces with the Resistance movement upon reading, in Lyons, of the death of the influential communist leader Gabriel Peri...". (p. 238) This seems an altogether more likely scenario to me. Péri is not mentioned in the French article about Camus. William Avery ( talk) 22:04, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Does anyone know of sources supporting the assertion that Camus was a pacifist? Wnjr ( talk) 15:07, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
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Why is the reference to the "Group for International Liaisons" considered important enough to be in the summary section of this article, but not mentioned again anywhere else? Also, it makes it appear as if he's denouncing capitalism and communism, when he's actually denouncing an "idolatry of technology" in both the USA and USSR (source for this is the same source used in the article). Unsure if it's important enough to include why it's stripped of context. MC152 ( talk) 19:46, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
I provided a good source about having affairs with anarchism. Do you prefer to use blogs instead of Peter Marshall?
I also added simple facts about his relations with socialist party in 1953. His view about USSR in 1944. And his view about Algeria based in anarchist historian Peter Marshall and a scientific paper.
what is the problem again? Why i ve been reverted? I will go to ani if this is not explained. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 04:42, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Pls stop the edit warring. Cinadon36 ( talk) 06:54, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
So you deleted simple facts based on peter Marshall with this excuse. As you wish. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 07:59, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Can someone add something about Camus as an anarchist? orelse i hope we wont add something without sources. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 13:35, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
Just to be clear, the article does not claim that Camus was an anarchist, but "became associated with the French anarchist movement" Here is another article that deals with this issue: Albert Camus and the Anarchist Alternative Peter Dunwoodie Related information1 Goldsmiths' College, University of London https://doi.org/10.3828/AJFS.30.1.84. [4] There 's also another interesting article ( Dadoun, R. (1986) Albert Camus: Fondations d’anarchie in J. Guérin (ed.) Camus et la politique, pp. 257–67.) but I can not spot it on the web. Cinadon36 ( talk) 09:07, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Concerning this edit [5] by Αντικαθεστωτικός, there is no consensus to remove him from that list. BBC lists him as an anarchist, [6] his philosophy has been categorized as existential anarchism, so I do not see any reason for [ this edit. Cinadon36 ( talk) 12:11, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
the writer claims that Camus was close to anarchism, but NOT an anarchist.Marshall is not saying he was NOT an anarchist. That is your conclusion. Cinadon36 ( talk) 06:57, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Finally, cinadon36 brought a RS. Case solved for me. He is considered as anarchist for some people, so its ok. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 12:30, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Can anyone fix "see also" section? Cinadon36 ( talk) 18:25, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
But rather than developing his anarcho-syndicalist sympathies, Camus soon veered in the opposite direction. In the 1955 elections, he supported the campaign of Mendel-France and called for a French Labour Party.
Camus by extension chose his tribe, his nation and his race. As a result, he remained faithful to his roots, a left-wing colonialist
{{sfn|Marshall|1993|p=584}}
If not enough, please ask for more. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 15:20, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Instead of searching for labels, we should strive to explain his political (and philosophical) thought based on RSs discussing Camus. Cinadon36 ( talk) 20:28, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
For Camus, this claim is ultimately grounded in human nature itself, which, among other things, is characterized by a strong impulse toward both spontaneity and creativity, and his commitment to a radically democratic (“bottom up”) form of political organization, as manifested in revolutionary trade-unionism or the Paris Commune of 1871, is, arguably, most in keeping with this fundamental condition of human flourishing. Politically, therefore, whether in 1944 or 1954, Camus is best understood as a libertarian socialist or, more exactly, an anarcho-syndicalist (anarcho-syndicalism being the theory that politics should begin with voluntary associations of cooperative, labor-based groups rather than the state).
Wonderful source. That kind of stuff i was searching from the beginning. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 12:27, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
But, now i saw the years. Peter Marshall says that he had relations in Socialist Party and he was a Socialist since 1953. Do you wish to bring more facts about this? So what now? Is Peter Marshall a RS and we should include his view? I think this is a big confict. Also we must add something about his support for a France occupied Algeria. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 20:49, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
I have to mention that maybe it was common in France to be an anarcho-syndicalist and also a supporter of Colonial France as Camus was. So maybe David Sherman has right -i am not sure- or maybe Peter Marshall has right and since 1950 he became an Socialist. In any way i don't know, but i think we must present all the views of RS, and not only those that mention that he was an anarchist. I hope you will agree. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 15:30, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Ι 'd suggest we stick to Sherman as his work is on Camus. Marshall, on the other hand, examines the history of anarchism from day one to the end of the 20th century. Cinadon36 ( talk) 21:30, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Text at the article: When Camus was asked in the 1950s by an alumnus sports magazine for a few words regarding his time with the RUA, his response included the following: "After many years during which I saw many things, what I know most surely about morality and the duty of man I owe to sport and learned it in the RUA." Camus was referring to a sort of simplistic morality he wrote about in his early essays, the principle of sticking up for your friends, of valuing bravery and fair-play. Camus's belief was that political and religious authorities try to confuse us with over-complicated moral systems to make things appear more complex than they really are, potentially to serve their own needs.
Source
Very Well said, but it is a CLOP violation. Moreover, I am not very certain whether Camus-Society.Com is RS. Cinadon36 ( talk) 13:26, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Any idea? Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 12:56, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
It is presented and it is not true that Camus was related to anarchism during 1937-1944 and 1953- death.
I provided sources that proves that he was ~popular front pioneer during 1937-1944 and source that he was a socialist in his late life. But i am reverted for some reasons.
Please provide some sources that proves that Camus was indeed related to anarchism for these periods.
Also, please let Peter Marshall (historian) view to add it in the article. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 08:46, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
This article claims: "He again allied with the anarchists in 1956, first in support of the workers' uprising in Poznań, Poland, and then later with the Hungarian Revolution'"
but peter Marshall for the same period says that he was related to socialist party and he: He had reached the classic liberal defence of parliamentary democracy."
so who has right here? unsourced material or Peter Marshall?
Αντικαθεστωτικός (
talk)
09:07, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Why dont you place a tag ie {{ unsourced}} next to it? As for Marshall, why don't you mention title, year, publisher and page? Cinadon36 ( talk) 10:56, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
{{cn}}
at the end of the sentence.
Cinadon36 (
talk)
11:27, 4 May 2019 (UTC)There is a claim into this article ", which got him into trouble with his Communist party comrades, who in 1937 denounced him as a Trotskyite and expelled him from the party. Camus then became associated with the French anarchist movement."
Please give me a RS about this claim. Cause Peter Marshall~ 1937-1944~suggests that during this period he was close to popular front politics.
Just tell me the numbers of the citations. p.e :BBC link was nothing about this, unfortunately. Αντικαθεστωτικός ( talk) 11:42, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
There are four refs following that particular sentence. Cinadon36 ( talk) 12:01, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Concerning this edit [7], does anyone have access to Isaac's book? Seems to me that xiv indicates a page within the book. Cinadon36 ( talk) 07:14, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Camus then became associated with the French anarchist movement.There are many comments like "[Arendt and Camus] ... retained many left-wing commitments, especially an affinity with anarchist politics" (p 14), "Arendt and Camus are best thought of as democrats of an anarchist stripe" (p 19), "a libertarian, anarchist version of democratic politics" (p 139), "radical democratic politics with a marked anarchist strain" (p 140), "anarchist and syndicalist politics inspired their political thinking" (p 149), "Camus's Notebooks make clear that this Mediterranean anarchist spirit, along with its Russian cousin, is a chief source of inspiration" (p 149) and more of the same. Not one single word about actual association with any movement, only about inspiration. -- T*U ( talk) 10:52, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Here: "Camus would later be associated with the French anarchist movement."
It's from
Biography.com. I won't add it back coz biography.com doesnt look like RS to me. If it is a valid sentence, I 'll surely find info elsewhere.
Cinadon
36
18:36, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
I think "Philosophy professor David Sherman" is sufficient. Merely stating the name is not enough, while stating the workplace seems too long. Cinadon 36 18:24, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Albert Camus has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
1st paragraph, last sentence of "Young Camus", current version:
Camus, was a womanizer throughout his life.
Comma is unnecessary. PB57 ( talk) 23:12, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
Done
Jonpatterns (
talk)
21:00, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
At intro: "Camus tried to flee"--> there is no citation because I feel there is no need for it. Intro summarizes the main body of the text. See first sentences of section "World War II, Resistance and Combat". Cinadon 36 22:20, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
Here also, Combat was banned from the Nazis as it was part of the resistance. Maybe "outlawed" is not the best word available? "Banned" would be better? Cinadon 36 22:20, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 18:27, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Appears fairly long but well-written. Sorry it had to wait so long. I will post my comments soon :) Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 18:27, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Well-written and grammatically accurate on the whole. A few queries and suggestions:
French Algerian philosopherWhy not use a single link to French Algeria?
He won the Nobel Prize in Literature at the age of 44 in 1957, the second-youngest recipient in history.Would be good to mention the first one too
He was in Paris when the Germans invaded FranceMaybe provide the year here? Also for
During the Algerian War
Camus was politically active. He was part of the Left that opposed the Soviet Union because of its totalitarianismThese two lines would look better if combined by a semicolon or an emdash.
Spanish-(Balearic) descentWhy the brackets?
Hence, he was called pied-noirHere 'pied-noir' is in italics, but not in the lead. Any one format should be used conysistently.
In 1933, he also met Simone HiéWas she someone he met at college? Any background to that?
and had not read Das Kapital (Capital)Sounds a bit like reading this book should commonly precede the generation of communist belief.
Because of his tuberculosis, he was forced to move to the French AlpsNot sure why he moved, was it his health? Could be clarified.
Lettres à un ami allemand (Letters to a German Friend)Should the German name also be in title case like the English one?
Comité français pour la féderation européenneShould be in italics and probably title case
The second was an unfinished novel, Le Premier homme (The First Man)'H' in homme (There might be other instances)
The publication of this book in 1994 has sparked a widespread reconsideration of Camus's allegedly unrepentant colonialismI don't see why this needs to be a separate paragraph, looks better if merged with the previous one.
The rest looks good to me. Thanks for this interesting read :) Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 16:55, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Well then, everything looks great :) Promoted! Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 22:04, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Many thanks Sainsf for taking this GAN. I 'd also like to thank you for your comments and points- the article looks much better now. Cinadon 36 08:25, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Are we really wedded to the current citation style? It's not the usual on wikipedia, although the actual rule is that anything understandable is acceptable and this does meet that, kinda. But I have only ever seen it before in college papers, and never for a mainstream news publication such as the Guardian. I am not prepared to change it at the moment, or argue about it, again for the moment, but it does strike me as very extremely Not Ideal, and I am curious as to where it comes from. Elinruby ( talk) 22:56, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
Give me some time and I ll answer your very interesting questions. Cinadon 36 18:54, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
I like shortened footnotes. Especially when a source is used many times- but different page, this kind of footnote is very handy. I find that it is easier to edit an article when shortened footnotes are in use. Cinadon 36 22:25, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
editorial quibble: "Because it is a transmitted disease, he moved out of his home and stayed with his uncle Gustave Acault, a butcher, who influenced the young Camus."
I have not changed anything here at the moment since I am don't know the details necessary to fix this, but something should preferably be done about this sentence. The tuberculosis is probably important. It should be mentioned, but the actual reason for the move should be better explained. Perhaps the uncle lived in a more rural and healthful location? I assume the reason he didn't go to a sanitarium was financial. A quibble, but one which should be addressed if someone knows the answer. Elinruby ( talk) 23:10, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
I removed this text from behind Groupes de liason internationale, since its placement indicated a translation, which it is not, at least not literally. I am unable to assess what should be done about this. Is there an english-language affiliated organization by that name? If it is intended as a description, it should probably be cited, and lower case. Leaving here as a question for now. Elinruby ( talk) 00:15, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
Ok, cool. Cinadon 36 22:51, 28 December 2019 (UTC)