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Is this really a useful addition to this article? I think Turing's association with this place was somewhat fleeting, and was rather more by necessity then by design. I'm not sure it tells us very much about Turing the computer scientist, mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst, philosopher, and theoretical biologist. Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 23:58, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
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In the infobox, please change the link “University of Cambridge” to “King’s College, Cambridge”. 31.74.39.7 ( talk) 22:18, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
Cody Hackman -- what did you mean by "malicious link" about {{ Turing 1950}}? in this edit? --jpgordon 𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 18:01, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
I'm abit puzzled by the question of how come the ENTIRE discussion on the Alan Turing Talk page (ie this page) prior to 22 December 2017 has been removed? - I do not believe this is standard practice for Wikipedia talk pages. - Can I have an explanation for this? RP Nielsen ( talk) 16:33, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
I would like to edit and contribute to this page, could some one with the ability to allow this help me to grant me editing access to this page please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hexiode ( talk • contribs) 05:13, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Of course. You can edit whenever you can as long as its unprotected. You can use Google Books or Britannica as an example. User:WernerHFan —Preceding undated comment added 13:41, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
I watched a programme called "Icons" on BBC Two last night, and Alan Turing was voted the greatest person of the twentieth century. This could be mentioned somewhere in the article. Vorbee ( talk) 20:00, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
We now have a cause of death in the info box: " Suicide by cyanide poisoning." This is certainly what the inquest determined and seems to be an uncontested fact. But is it a fair summary of what is in the article? The lead section says this, with the BBC source, as this might be considered somewhat controversial: "An inquest determined his death as a suicide, but it has been noted that the known evidence is also consistent with accidental poisoning." [1] Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 22:13, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
References
This source says that his ashes were scattered in the gardens of the crematorium which seems perfectly normal. It seems quite an odd claim to me that they were scattered "near" the crematorium. The single current source (given only in the infobox) is a Guardian film review? Martinevans123 ( talk) 14:36, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
I little while ago I made an edit adding an extra source. The edit got reverted which I respect, but it confused me a little when the user that reverted wrote: "and this article uses British English, not American Englis". This confused me because I cited from a book wrote in American English. Are books written in American English not accepted as sources? - User:Year1888,10th April 2019, 12:37 (UTC)
A change from "recognised" to "recognized" is not a change to American English. The forms in -ize are/were preferred by Oxford and The Times, while -ise is/was the choice of Cambridge and the Guardian. While -ise has become more commonplace in UK contexts in recent years, we are not yet at the stage where it is the only acceptable spelling in English. Sussexonian ( talk) 19:39, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Have you ever noticed the resemblance of Alan Turing and David Clemens (Keir Dullea) in Frank Perry's B-and-W movie David and Lisa? The thing that really surprised me (while watching David and Lisa for the first time in 2011, YouTube) was David's ingenious invention called the Radio-Controlled Clock. At that moment (in 2011) I had one of these radio-controlled clocks hanging on the wall! Alan Turing, of course, was not the inventor of a special kind of clocks (or?), anyway, I wonder if the life and work of Alan Turing could have been an (or perhaps THE) inspiration to create the rare and extremely intelligent personality of David Clemens (?). DannyJ.Caes ( talk) 16:21, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
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What are people's thoughts in changing the original Black and White portrait of Turing from when he was 16 to this colouristation seen here for the lead infobox image? Spy-cicle💥 Talk? 22:44, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
I propose the creation of an article such as Legacy of Alan Turing, in accordance with summary style ( WP:SUMMARY). A significant portion of this article is taken up by relatively unimportant aspects of his legacy that are making the page longer than necessary. If no one objects, I might do so in a week or so. Outriggr ( talk) 11:04, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Although Christopher Morcom is one of those people who is only remembered by anyone in the general public due to his association with another, because he had such a profound influence on the life of Mr. Turing (which justifies, I suppose, his being mentioned in this article at all let alone having a subsection), might it not be appropriate to add a photograph of him in that subsection? Below is the link to one such photo available online taken in 1926 when Mr. Morcom had been a schoolboy. It is my understanding (from Wikipedia itself) that a photo enters the public domain after fifty years, so presumably this would not raise copyright concerns. The photo is from his school’s archives.
If others like this suggestion (just that, hardly grist for an edit war :) ), I shall have to leave it to another to actually place the photo as I lack the technical expertise. Anyway, as I said it’s just a suggestion and I thank any for considering it.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/91268329926182375/ HistoryBuff14 ( talk) 20:54, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
P.S. One can click on the photo to get a slightly enlarged version of it and see its source. HistoryBuff14 ( talk) 21:21, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
References
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Where his court trial was. KindleFox1 ( talk) 08:50, 30 December 2020 (UTC) ~KindleFox1
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New 2021 note with him featured on it. KindleFox1 ( talk) 09:00, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
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Category:Fellows of King's College London
Alan Turing was a fellow of King's college. QuirijnKaya ( talk) 20:04, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
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On the first line, make the word "mathematician" a hyperlink to /info/en/?search=Mathematician. Ekztes ( talk) 03:41, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
How can this rubbish be allowed in the lede? The Allies would still have developed atomic weapons by 1945. 31.53.205.242 ( talk) 21:30, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
"If U-boat Enigma had not been broken, and the war had continued for another two to three years, a further 14 to 21 million people might have been killed.
"Of course, even in a counterfactual scenario in which Turing was not able to break U-boat Enigma, the war might still have ended in 1945 because of some other occurrence, also contrary-to-fact, such as the dropping of a nuclear weapon on Berlin. Nevertheless, these colossal numbers of lives do convey a sense of the magnitude of Turing's contribution."
Q. Is it not the case that the arrival of the atom bomb in 1945 would have bought a quicker solution?
A. This is a problem because strict, sensible, proper counter-factual history can't really take into account something like that. It is speculation. But of course if my scenario is right and the war was still struggling on and we had the bomb which presumably we would still have had, the problem of whether to drop it on Germany would have arisen. And in some respects the dropping of it on Germany would be more justified than the dropping of it on Japan because Japan was visibly on her knees when we dropped it on her, but in my scenario Germany would have been far from on her knees. So yes the prospects of it being dropped as the solution are quite high. I would mention it in a speculative scenario.
OP blocked as a sock of HarveyCarter.
Beyond My Ken (
talk) 21:54, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
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The suggestion that Turing shortened the war by two years and saved 14 million lives is pure speculation by one man, and in any case ignores the fact that the Allies would still have developed atomic weapons by 1945. It should not be in the lede. ( Westerhaley ( talk) 16:41, 27 May 2021 (UTC))
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The Bank of England has unveiled the new £50 note featuring mathematician and computer science pioneer Alan Turing, who helped the Allies win World War II with his code-breaking prowess but died an outcast after facing government persecution over his homosexuality. https://www.npr.org/2021/03/25/981242121/new-u-k-currency-honors-alan-turing-pioneering-computer-scientist-and-code-break
The banknote was issued on 23 June 2021, and the future tense reference to this in the intro paragraph should be updated: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57554102.
Mr Turing's image joins that of Winston Churchill on the five-pound note, novelist Jane Austen on the 10-pound note and artist JMW Turner on the 20-pound note. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-26/alan-turing-honoured-uk-50-pound-note/100032362 Peter K Burian ( talk) 12:22, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
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22:53, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Cause du décès : Suicide (contesté) par intoxication au cyanure
Why is this in French? Peter K Burian ( talk) 23:40, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Per MOS:LEADLENGTH the lead should be about 4 paragraphs at most, currently we have 6. In addition, none of his Early life is covered in the lead. Thoughts? Spy-cicle💥 Talk? 18:12, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Peter K Burian ( talk) 12:28, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
This should all go into a later section. Do you agree
After the war, Turing worked at the National Physical Laboratory, where he designed the Automatic Computing Engine. The Automatic Computing Engine was one of the first designs for a stored-program computer. In 1948, Turing joined Max Newman's Computing Machine Laboratory, at the Victoria University of Manchester, where he helped develop the Manchester computers[15] and became interested in mathematical biology. He wrote a paper on the chemical basis of morphogenesis[1] and predicted oscillating chemical reactions such as the Belousov–Zhabotinsky reaction, first observed in the 1960s.
Peter K Burian ( talk) 23:42, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/news/2019/july/50-pound-banknote-character-announcement
... is now 'on the market'. -- Präziser ( talk) 07:03, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
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In the second paragraph, there is a sentence that states "shortly after during". This is incorrect. 2604:3D09:A57F:D560:B1E8:D8D:FD15:1730 ( talk) 04:20, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
I find the default 85% size to be fine and propose that it be maintained as is. But as there is at least one editor in opposition who is apparently ready to edit-war over it, let's form a new consensus about this. Skyerise ( talk) 14:45, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
Why does the article not mention Turing liked young boys? ( Hefrrre118 ( talk) 20:11, 27 June 2021 (UTC))
There are several grammatical errors "organisation" "optimise"... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:49:c200:c690:d5c4:62f7:7ace:e74d ( talk • contribs) 09:06, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
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Jack Copeland's view on Enigma shortening the war by two years should mention that the Allies would still have developed atomic weapons in 1945 using the Manhattan Project. 86.151.111.67 ( talk) 13:42, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Copeland was quoting official war historian Professor Harry Hinsley -- TedColes ( talk) 15:54, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
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The 14 million figure should be removed from the lede as it was agreed on the talk page that it is POV, ignores the Soviet contribution, and ignores the Manhattan Project. Herm12 ( talk) 13:33, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
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Change "committed suicide" to "died by suicide". 173.66.210.129 ( talk) 22:43, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. Current consensus allowed either phrase.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 22:57, 1 August 2021 (UTC)Flowers was far more important than Turing, who was often mistakenly attributed with Flowers' achievements. ( Herm12 ( talk) 13:44, 5 August 2021 (UTC))
Since this is just an estimate by one person it should be removed from the lede as it's just speculation. ( Angustyre ( talk) 18:09, 4 July 2021 (UTC))
@ Angustyre: More knowledge doesn't make someone more expert. That's a ludicrous thing to say. Another thing you have no expertise at is Wikipedia. In an editing situation like this, where other editors disagree with you, the article stays as it is until you show that there is a consensus for the change. That almost never happens in long-winded free discussion like this. If you won't open an RfC, you may as well go edit something else, because the article won't be changing any time soon unless you show a clear consensus for your change. Skyerise ( talk) 13:31, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Oh, and another thing. Did you even look at the date of the reference? It's from a lecture given in 1993. So spare me your facetious claim that the expert didn't know about the Manhattan Project. Any opinion after August 6, 1945 would have included that knowledge. Skyerise ( talk) 13:37, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
"He was criticised by Marian Rejewski and Gordon Welchman, who took exception to inaccuracies in Hinsley's accounts of the history of Enigma decryption..."But there's nothing about "debunking". If you have good sources, maybe you should it to that article? Martinevans123 ( talk) 17:47, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
The reference is to Professor Sir Harry Hinsley's talk in 1993 ( Hinsley, Harry (1996) [1993], The Influence of ULTRA in the Second World War – Transcript of a lecture given on Tuesday 19 October 1993 at Cambridge University) under the title "The Influence of ULTRA in the Second World War". In it he said:
Now the question remains how much did it shorten the war, leaving aside the contribution made to the campaigns in the Far East on which the necessary work hasn't been done yet. My own conclusion is that it shortened the war by not less that two years and probably by four years - that is the war in the Atlantic, the Mediterranean and Europe.
Turing's work on the Bombe undoubtedly contributed greatly to the total Ultra process, but there were many other sources of information. My view is that it is funamentally important to stick to reliable citeable sources and that it would be reasonable to credit Turing with a major contribution to Ultra, and cite Hinsley's two year figure. -- TedColes ( talk) 08:04, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
This is a problem because strict, sensible, proper counter-factual history can't really take into account something like that. It is speculation. But of course if my scenario is right and the war was still struggling on and we had the bomb which presumably we would still have had, the problem of whether to drop it on Germany would have arisen. And in some respects the dropping of it on Germany would be more justified than the dropping of it on Japan because Japan was visibly on her knees when we dropped it on her, but in my scenario Germany would have been far from on her knees. So yes the prospects of it being dropped as the solution are quite high. I would mention it in a speculative scenario.In other words, he hasn't really accounted for the atomic bomb in his scenario. He also comments on what would have happened in the war overall without Ultra:
My own view is that given that the Soviets survived the German attack and the Americans came in as they did, the combined forces of Russia, America and the British would eventually have won the war. The long term relative strengths of Germany and those three counties were such that Germany was bound to loose in the end. But how lengthily and with what damage and destruction we should have succeeded I don't know.Based on this source, Hinsley has not predicted what would have happened in the wider war. He has not accounted for the atomic bomb being used against Germany; he has not calculated what the Soviet and American forces would have done. Use of his comment in this article is misleading and is not appropriate for a global encyclopedia.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 01:35, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
At a conservative estimate, each year of the fighting in Europe brought on average about seven million deaths. 10-14 million were being killed every year in the war, so why use a figure for "the fighting in Europe" (whatever that means)? Again, this is not a global perspective on the war. Copeland adds the caveat:
Of course, even in a counterfactual scenario in which Turing was not able to break U-boat Enigma, the war might still have ended in 1945 because of some other occurrence, also contrary-to-fact, such as the dropping of a nuclear weapon on Berlin. Nevertheless, these colossal numbers of lives do convey a sense of the magnitude of Turing's contribution.This parallels the caveat given by Hinsley, who Copeland follows. Their calculations are only valid if Germany wasn't defeated by A-bombs or some other scenario. And as Hinsley says, the likelihood of the A-bomb being used on Germany if Germany hadn't surrendered in 1945 was "quite high". So, by their own accounts, the probability that Turing & Co didn't shorten the war by 2-4 years is "quite high".-- Jack Upland ( talk) 09:19, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
The article is information on when and how Turing's work under the OSA were made public. Some too many decades ago, when we studied Turing, these details were unknown. When and by whom was it decided that this information could be declassified? Shouldn't that be in the article? Or if I missed it, let me know where it is... Skyerise ( talk) 04:57, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Despite these accomplishments, he was never fully recognised in his home country during his lifetime because much of his work was covered by the Official Secrets Act.
This doesn't seem to reflect what's in the article and is a very incomplete explanation (of something that doesn't really need explaining).
Turing was never accused of espionage, but in common with all who had worked at Bletchley Park, he was prevented by the Official Secrets Act from discussing his war work.What is this sentence about??? No one said that he was accused of espionage, and as far as I can see, no one said he wanted to discuss his war work.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 19:37, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
Turing was never accused of espionage, but in common with all who had worked at Bletchley Park, he was prevented by the Official Secrets Act from discussing his war work" was meant to convey? Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 11:05, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
Is there a reason a young picture of Turning was selected? There seems to be plenty of free-use photos of him at an age he was best known for...
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After the UK's exit from the EU, the ERASMUS scheme for students to travel freely across the EU was replaced by scheme named after Alan; The Turing scheme.
This scheme aims to offer students opportunities with countries in the EU and across the world.
This is testament to the respect he's been posthumously given across the UK and the world. 2.31.194.188 ( talk) 22:40, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
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Is this really a useful addition to this article? I think Turing's association with this place was somewhat fleeting, and was rather more by necessity then by design. I'm not sure it tells us very much about Turing the computer scientist, mathematician, logician, cryptanalyst, philosopher, and theoretical biologist. Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 23:58, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
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In the infobox, please change the link “University of Cambridge” to “King’s College, Cambridge”. 31.74.39.7 ( talk) 22:18, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
Cody Hackman -- what did you mean by "malicious link" about {{ Turing 1950}}? in this edit? --jpgordon 𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 18:01, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
I'm abit puzzled by the question of how come the ENTIRE discussion on the Alan Turing Talk page (ie this page) prior to 22 December 2017 has been removed? - I do not believe this is standard practice for Wikipedia talk pages. - Can I have an explanation for this? RP Nielsen ( talk) 16:33, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
I would like to edit and contribute to this page, could some one with the ability to allow this help me to grant me editing access to this page please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hexiode ( talk • contribs) 05:13, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Of course. You can edit whenever you can as long as its unprotected. You can use Google Books or Britannica as an example. User:WernerHFan —Preceding undated comment added 13:41, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
I watched a programme called "Icons" on BBC Two last night, and Alan Turing was voted the greatest person of the twentieth century. This could be mentioned somewhere in the article. Vorbee ( talk) 20:00, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
We now have a cause of death in the info box: " Suicide by cyanide poisoning." This is certainly what the inquest determined and seems to be an uncontested fact. But is it a fair summary of what is in the article? The lead section says this, with the BBC source, as this might be considered somewhat controversial: "An inquest determined his death as a suicide, but it has been noted that the known evidence is also consistent with accidental poisoning." [1] Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 22:13, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
References
This source says that his ashes were scattered in the gardens of the crematorium which seems perfectly normal. It seems quite an odd claim to me that they were scattered "near" the crematorium. The single current source (given only in the infobox) is a Guardian film review? Martinevans123 ( talk) 14:36, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
I little while ago I made an edit adding an extra source. The edit got reverted which I respect, but it confused me a little when the user that reverted wrote: "and this article uses British English, not American Englis". This confused me because I cited from a book wrote in American English. Are books written in American English not accepted as sources? - User:Year1888,10th April 2019, 12:37 (UTC)
A change from "recognised" to "recognized" is not a change to American English. The forms in -ize are/were preferred by Oxford and The Times, while -ise is/was the choice of Cambridge and the Guardian. While -ise has become more commonplace in UK contexts in recent years, we are not yet at the stage where it is the only acceptable spelling in English. Sussexonian ( talk) 19:39, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
Have you ever noticed the resemblance of Alan Turing and David Clemens (Keir Dullea) in Frank Perry's B-and-W movie David and Lisa? The thing that really surprised me (while watching David and Lisa for the first time in 2011, YouTube) was David's ingenious invention called the Radio-Controlled Clock. At that moment (in 2011) I had one of these radio-controlled clocks hanging on the wall! Alan Turing, of course, was not the inventor of a special kind of clocks (or?), anyway, I wonder if the life and work of Alan Turing could have been an (or perhaps THE) inspiration to create the rare and extremely intelligent personality of David Clemens (?). DannyJ.Caes ( talk) 16:21, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
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What are people's thoughts in changing the original Black and White portrait of Turing from when he was 16 to this colouristation seen here for the lead infobox image? Spy-cicle💥 Talk? 22:44, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
I propose the creation of an article such as Legacy of Alan Turing, in accordance with summary style ( WP:SUMMARY). A significant portion of this article is taken up by relatively unimportant aspects of his legacy that are making the page longer than necessary. If no one objects, I might do so in a week or so. Outriggr ( talk) 11:04, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Although Christopher Morcom is one of those people who is only remembered by anyone in the general public due to his association with another, because he had such a profound influence on the life of Mr. Turing (which justifies, I suppose, his being mentioned in this article at all let alone having a subsection), might it not be appropriate to add a photograph of him in that subsection? Below is the link to one such photo available online taken in 1926 when Mr. Morcom had been a schoolboy. It is my understanding (from Wikipedia itself) that a photo enters the public domain after fifty years, so presumably this would not raise copyright concerns. The photo is from his school’s archives.
If others like this suggestion (just that, hardly grist for an edit war :) ), I shall have to leave it to another to actually place the photo as I lack the technical expertise. Anyway, as I said it’s just a suggestion and I thank any for considering it.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/91268329926182375/ HistoryBuff14 ( talk) 20:54, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
P.S. One can click on the photo to get a slightly enlarged version of it and see its source. HistoryBuff14 ( talk) 21:21, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
References
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Where his court trial was. KindleFox1 ( talk) 08:50, 30 December 2020 (UTC) ~KindleFox1
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New 2021 note with him featured on it. KindleFox1 ( talk) 09:00, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
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Category:Fellows of King's College London
Alan Turing was a fellow of King's college. QuirijnKaya ( talk) 20:04, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
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On the first line, make the word "mathematician" a hyperlink to /info/en/?search=Mathematician. Ekztes ( talk) 03:41, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
How can this rubbish be allowed in the lede? The Allies would still have developed atomic weapons by 1945. 31.53.205.242 ( talk) 21:30, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
"If U-boat Enigma had not been broken, and the war had continued for another two to three years, a further 14 to 21 million people might have been killed.
"Of course, even in a counterfactual scenario in which Turing was not able to break U-boat Enigma, the war might still have ended in 1945 because of some other occurrence, also contrary-to-fact, such as the dropping of a nuclear weapon on Berlin. Nevertheless, these colossal numbers of lives do convey a sense of the magnitude of Turing's contribution."
Q. Is it not the case that the arrival of the atom bomb in 1945 would have bought a quicker solution?
A. This is a problem because strict, sensible, proper counter-factual history can't really take into account something like that. It is speculation. But of course if my scenario is right and the war was still struggling on and we had the bomb which presumably we would still have had, the problem of whether to drop it on Germany would have arisen. And in some respects the dropping of it on Germany would be more justified than the dropping of it on Japan because Japan was visibly on her knees when we dropped it on her, but in my scenario Germany would have been far from on her knees. So yes the prospects of it being dropped as the solution are quite high. I would mention it in a speculative scenario.
OP blocked as a sock of HarveyCarter.
Beyond My Ken (
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The suggestion that Turing shortened the war by two years and saved 14 million lives is pure speculation by one man, and in any case ignores the fact that the Allies would still have developed atomic weapons by 1945. It should not be in the lede. ( Westerhaley ( talk) 16:41, 27 May 2021 (UTC))
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The Bank of England has unveiled the new £50 note featuring mathematician and computer science pioneer Alan Turing, who helped the Allies win World War II with his code-breaking prowess but died an outcast after facing government persecution over his homosexuality. https://www.npr.org/2021/03/25/981242121/new-u-k-currency-honors-alan-turing-pioneering-computer-scientist-and-code-break
The banknote was issued on 23 June 2021, and the future tense reference to this in the intro paragraph should be updated: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57554102.
Mr Turing's image joins that of Winston Churchill on the five-pound note, novelist Jane Austen on the 10-pound note and artist JMW Turner on the 20-pound note. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-26/alan-turing-honoured-uk-50-pound-note/100032362 Peter K Burian ( talk) 12:22, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
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22:53, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Cause du décès : Suicide (contesté) par intoxication au cyanure
Why is this in French? Peter K Burian ( talk) 23:40, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
Per MOS:LEADLENGTH the lead should be about 4 paragraphs at most, currently we have 6. In addition, none of his Early life is covered in the lead. Thoughts? Spy-cicle💥 Talk? 18:12, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
Peter K Burian ( talk) 12:28, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
This should all go into a later section. Do you agree
After the war, Turing worked at the National Physical Laboratory, where he designed the Automatic Computing Engine. The Automatic Computing Engine was one of the first designs for a stored-program computer. In 1948, Turing joined Max Newman's Computing Machine Laboratory, at the Victoria University of Manchester, where he helped develop the Manchester computers[15] and became interested in mathematical biology. He wrote a paper on the chemical basis of morphogenesis[1] and predicted oscillating chemical reactions such as the Belousov–Zhabotinsky reaction, first observed in the 1960s.
Peter K Burian ( talk) 23:42, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/news/2019/july/50-pound-banknote-character-announcement
... is now 'on the market'. -- Präziser ( talk) 07:03, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
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In the second paragraph, there is a sentence that states "shortly after during". This is incorrect. 2604:3D09:A57F:D560:B1E8:D8D:FD15:1730 ( talk) 04:20, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
I find the default 85% size to be fine and propose that it be maintained as is. But as there is at least one editor in opposition who is apparently ready to edit-war over it, let's form a new consensus about this. Skyerise ( talk) 14:45, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
Why does the article not mention Turing liked young boys? ( Hefrrre118 ( talk) 20:11, 27 June 2021 (UTC))
There are several grammatical errors "organisation" "optimise"... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:49:c200:c690:d5c4:62f7:7ace:e74d ( talk • contribs) 09:06, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
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Jack Copeland's view on Enigma shortening the war by two years should mention that the Allies would still have developed atomic weapons in 1945 using the Manhattan Project. 86.151.111.67 ( talk) 13:42, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Copeland was quoting official war historian Professor Harry Hinsley -- TedColes ( talk) 15:54, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
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The 14 million figure should be removed from the lede as it was agreed on the talk page that it is POV, ignores the Soviet contribution, and ignores the Manhattan Project. Herm12 ( talk) 13:33, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
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Change "committed suicide" to "died by suicide". 173.66.210.129 ( talk) 22:43, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
{{
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template. Current consensus allowed either phrase.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 22:57, 1 August 2021 (UTC)Flowers was far more important than Turing, who was often mistakenly attributed with Flowers' achievements. ( Herm12 ( talk) 13:44, 5 August 2021 (UTC))
Since this is just an estimate by one person it should be removed from the lede as it's just speculation. ( Angustyre ( talk) 18:09, 4 July 2021 (UTC))
@ Angustyre: More knowledge doesn't make someone more expert. That's a ludicrous thing to say. Another thing you have no expertise at is Wikipedia. In an editing situation like this, where other editors disagree with you, the article stays as it is until you show that there is a consensus for the change. That almost never happens in long-winded free discussion like this. If you won't open an RfC, you may as well go edit something else, because the article won't be changing any time soon unless you show a clear consensus for your change. Skyerise ( talk) 13:31, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
Oh, and another thing. Did you even look at the date of the reference? It's from a lecture given in 1993. So spare me your facetious claim that the expert didn't know about the Manhattan Project. Any opinion after August 6, 1945 would have included that knowledge. Skyerise ( talk) 13:37, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
"He was criticised by Marian Rejewski and Gordon Welchman, who took exception to inaccuracies in Hinsley's accounts of the history of Enigma decryption..."But there's nothing about "debunking". If you have good sources, maybe you should it to that article? Martinevans123 ( talk) 17:47, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
The reference is to Professor Sir Harry Hinsley's talk in 1993 ( Hinsley, Harry (1996) [1993], The Influence of ULTRA in the Second World War – Transcript of a lecture given on Tuesday 19 October 1993 at Cambridge University) under the title "The Influence of ULTRA in the Second World War". In it he said:
Now the question remains how much did it shorten the war, leaving aside the contribution made to the campaigns in the Far East on which the necessary work hasn't been done yet. My own conclusion is that it shortened the war by not less that two years and probably by four years - that is the war in the Atlantic, the Mediterranean and Europe.
Turing's work on the Bombe undoubtedly contributed greatly to the total Ultra process, but there were many other sources of information. My view is that it is funamentally important to stick to reliable citeable sources and that it would be reasonable to credit Turing with a major contribution to Ultra, and cite Hinsley's two year figure. -- TedColes ( talk) 08:04, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
This is a problem because strict, sensible, proper counter-factual history can't really take into account something like that. It is speculation. But of course if my scenario is right and the war was still struggling on and we had the bomb which presumably we would still have had, the problem of whether to drop it on Germany would have arisen. And in some respects the dropping of it on Germany would be more justified than the dropping of it on Japan because Japan was visibly on her knees when we dropped it on her, but in my scenario Germany would have been far from on her knees. So yes the prospects of it being dropped as the solution are quite high. I would mention it in a speculative scenario.In other words, he hasn't really accounted for the atomic bomb in his scenario. He also comments on what would have happened in the war overall without Ultra:
My own view is that given that the Soviets survived the German attack and the Americans came in as they did, the combined forces of Russia, America and the British would eventually have won the war. The long term relative strengths of Germany and those three counties were such that Germany was bound to loose in the end. But how lengthily and with what damage and destruction we should have succeeded I don't know.Based on this source, Hinsley has not predicted what would have happened in the wider war. He has not accounted for the atomic bomb being used against Germany; he has not calculated what the Soviet and American forces would have done. Use of his comment in this article is misleading and is not appropriate for a global encyclopedia.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 01:35, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
At a conservative estimate, each year of the fighting in Europe brought on average about seven million deaths. 10-14 million were being killed every year in the war, so why use a figure for "the fighting in Europe" (whatever that means)? Again, this is not a global perspective on the war. Copeland adds the caveat:
Of course, even in a counterfactual scenario in which Turing was not able to break U-boat Enigma, the war might still have ended in 1945 because of some other occurrence, also contrary-to-fact, such as the dropping of a nuclear weapon on Berlin. Nevertheless, these colossal numbers of lives do convey a sense of the magnitude of Turing's contribution.This parallels the caveat given by Hinsley, who Copeland follows. Their calculations are only valid if Germany wasn't defeated by A-bombs or some other scenario. And as Hinsley says, the likelihood of the A-bomb being used on Germany if Germany hadn't surrendered in 1945 was "quite high". So, by their own accounts, the probability that Turing & Co didn't shorten the war by 2-4 years is "quite high".-- Jack Upland ( talk) 09:19, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
The article is information on when and how Turing's work under the OSA were made public. Some too many decades ago, when we studied Turing, these details were unknown. When and by whom was it decided that this information could be declassified? Shouldn't that be in the article? Or if I missed it, let me know where it is... Skyerise ( talk) 04:57, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Despite these accomplishments, he was never fully recognised in his home country during his lifetime because much of his work was covered by the Official Secrets Act.
This doesn't seem to reflect what's in the article and is a very incomplete explanation (of something that doesn't really need explaining).
Turing was never accused of espionage, but in common with all who had worked at Bletchley Park, he was prevented by the Official Secrets Act from discussing his war work.What is this sentence about??? No one said that he was accused of espionage, and as far as I can see, no one said he wanted to discuss his war work.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 19:37, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
Turing was never accused of espionage, but in common with all who had worked at Bletchley Park, he was prevented by the Official Secrets Act from discussing his war work" was meant to convey? Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 11:05, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
Is there a reason a young picture of Turning was selected? There seems to be plenty of free-use photos of him at an age he was best known for...
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After the UK's exit from the EU, the ERASMUS scheme for students to travel freely across the EU was replaced by scheme named after Alan; The Turing scheme.
This scheme aims to offer students opportunities with countries in the EU and across the world.
This is testament to the respect he's been posthumously given across the UK and the world. 2.31.194.188 ( talk) 22:40, 17 October 2021 (UTC)