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As this article has been finally written nice and that is originally Serbian dish, can you please mark it as {{ Serbia-stub}} or so? Also you didn't put Serbia in [[ ]]. Thank you for correcting it in advance.
I agree with this. Please put Serbian and also Serbian Cyrillic + as Serbia-stub / article or Serbian cuisine. Thank you and smart move to lock it so vandals can't rename and put false facts. 79.175.120.216 ( talk) 19:45, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Most likely it originated in Serbia, since a lot of food from Serbia was influneced by Hungarian cuisine whitch then spread to north Serbia and lower. Serbia and Montenegro also have it's own recepes whitch use a lot of spices and ingredients found in ajvar such as paprikash and Punyene Paprika (spelling please, not a native Serbian speaker) As far as I know Serbia as well as Bulgaria and elements of their culture influenced Macedonia a lot during the time of SFRY, so it's plausable that Macedonia borrowed some of it's national cuisine into its own. For example, "sirene" is Bulgarian cheese but now you can also find it in Macedonia. --From Marusha.
There is also given false etymology: caviar and ajvar traces etymology to indo-iranian origin, word is much older than Ottoman conquests in Asia Minor and Balkans. Pre-Ottoman turkish dictionary does not have similar word. http://www.iranica.com/articles/caviar Someone common with linguistics and history knows for Slavic and Iranian contacts in lower Danube and Upper Caspian region. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.69.5.228 ( talk) 11:03, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Ajvar is not Serbian alone and origin is unknown 100%. It could be Macedonian or Croatian too...............; Lets call it Former Yugoslav or Balkan................
The fect that the word Paprika is of Serbian origin (which is accepted etimological fact) is a strong linguistic clue that ajvar comes from Serbia- see also Etimoloski recnik srpskog jezika, 1, 2003. -- Luzzifer 00:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I♥Ajvar!Pinđur Sun Aug 19 08:54:28 2007 GMT —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
172.191.39.86 (
talk) 08:54:54, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
Wow so much ignorance , PINDJUR is more similar to baba ghanoush because it is made of eggplant. Ajvar is different.— Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
Alvar is Macedonian....You will not find ingredients of Ajvar in other countries. Other Balkan countries have versions of it. Point!
Why people are righting such nonsense (like explanation about ajvar and sirenje) without having any knowledge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.13.12.30 ( talk) 12:38, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Since when ajvar is made of bell peppers? I am Macedonian and I have never heard of such an ajvar. Maybe there are some remote chances for such thing existing somewhere (most likely an idividual idea rather than any uniform custom), but it is certainly extremely uncommon to the point of not even being worthy of mention in this article, let alone stating at the beginning that bell peppers are its primary ingredient ! -- B. Jankuloski 08:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
OK everybody! Let's make peace and call it, Italian/Global-style, peperone (plural: peperoni); and, mind you, NOT "pepperoni"! Ciao! Brumon ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:41, 6 February 2011 (UTC).
This is an automated message regarding an image used on this page. The image File:Ajvar hot Podravka.jpg, found on Ajvar, has been nominated for deletion because it does not meet Wikipedia image policy. Please see the image description page for more details. If this message was sent in error (that is, the image is not up for deletion, or was left on the wrong talk page), please contact this bot's operator. STBotI ( talk) 16:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
This article has seen too much edit warring, needs a lot of cleanup and falls under the discretionary sanctions put forth at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Macedonia#Discretionary_sanctions. All edits should be cited inline to an independent, verifiable source. More than one PoV or outlook can be carried, but all PoVs must be cited. Uncited text may be removed by any good faith editor. Any edits I've made to the text have been meant only as cleanup and/or mediation. Many of the edits I made have been undone, which is ok. I'm neutral and not involved as to the editorial content. If there is disagreement as to how sources should be echoed in the text, please talk about it here on the talk page, do not edit war. Users who edit war may be banned from this topic for some time. Gwen Gale ( talk) 12:01, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
please stop faking this page, since you have removed about 20 refferences Ardura ( talk) 19:01, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Just start from this point, Macedonia produces the most peppers(paprika) for Ajvar, it exports huge quantity of it to the balkan countries, practicaly all families make it throut the country, so I would say it is a more Macedonian thing then any other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.7.159.250 ( talk) 13:21, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
It originates from Serbian cuisine. Nevertheless who produces pepper : )) Leskovac peppers and ajvar are the best and big quantity ;) 109.121.8.189 ( talk) 03:24, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Paprika grows abundantly in southern Serbia and Macedonia and there's really no sharp border between these areas except purely political one (people on both sides live, talk and act mostly in same ways) so I'm ok with saying ajvar is either Macedonian or Serbian. As of claim it's Slovene, it's ridiculous, peppers don't grow in mountains.
why is this page locked? - Lostguy101 ( talk) 04:11, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
"However, the domestic production of ajvar/caviar was continuously striked since..."?
restarurants?
Don't the editors proof-read? Would have edited it myself, but since the article is locked, maybe an official editor will do the honors? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.180.156.114 ( talk) 15:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
Please include an external link to
http://palachinkablog.com/ajvar/. It is a step-by-step traditional recipe on making Ajvar in Serbia.
Palachinka (
talk)
10:23, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
isn't this an opinion? If it isn't an opinon I think it needs a source explaining why mass produced or foriegn can't cook the peppers correctly.
And it is misleading to say how little is produced unless it is specified that it is the Serbian variety. At a local grocery store there is a set of shelves filled with ajvar from a variety of places. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.79.210.95 ( talk) 08:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
I remember checking this page years ago. It used to claim that Ajvar was a Serbian dish without any neutral source given and all of the sources being Serbian. I raised an eyebrow, but didn't bother back then. And now I see that ajvar is listed as a Macedonian dish without any reliable, neutral sources given. And to make things worse, this was listed as a source by some Macedonian troll:
"A parody of Sigmund Freud's writings. This book features his theories about food and cooking, and recipes for his favorite dishes."
I won't even bother checking this out. How is this a reliable source? Let's assume that isn't an usual parody and that the author did a lot of research on ajvar (which is most unlikely, being a parody). This book was written in 70-ies when Macedonia was still a part of Yugoslavia and I can guess that the author probably tasted some ajvar that was produced in today's Macedonia (probably Vitaminka) and then mentioned it in his books. Someone might check it out and see if it even mentions ajvar.
I know that ajvar is considered a national dish in all countries of former Yugoslavia. This article really, REALLY needs some serious editing from someone more knowledge than myself. Someone might search for ajvar on Google, open this article and be left complete confused. I know that ajvar is loved in Macedonia (and IMHO Macedonia produces some awesome ajvars), but this is the first time I heard that ajvar is originally a Macedonian dish. I do not say that Serbian or Macedonian ajvar is wrong, but I do not think that anyone knows its true origins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.239.208 ( talk) 12:02, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
2016....and the fiasco with questionable sources remains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.138.44.223 ( talk) 22:31, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
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Ayvar as many know is spoken with the "j" pronounced as an "i", rendering "aivar" or ayvar, as its spelled abroad.
It is not appropriate for wikipedia to use non-English spellings of things because it results in an incorrect use of English. The letter "j" in English is used as an affricative, a "stopping" sound. This results in a crazy pronounciation of "ajvar" as "adge-var", or "ashe-var". It would be less confusing for researchers if the spelling of this article was changed to "Ayvar" in order to aid correct pronunciation of the word and more importantly, correct use of English. Addeps3 ( talk) 11:04, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
It is confusing for the average person to pronounce something arbitrarily and have the listener not understand what they're referring to. The relish is called ayvar, but colloqially spelled ajvar. Wikipedia can help correct this idiocy among people who dont know what ayvar is or how its spoken. My point about labels was that they are not mispronounced overseas, typically. Since that is how its pronounced, then it makes sense to spell it with correct English. Nobody reads ajvar as "ayvar" thus I was making a motion to shed light on things for people. Addeps3 ( talk) 17:22, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
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Remove emoji from lead. Amend Croatian language template in lead to use {{Template:Lang-hr}} Remove 'Ajvar-Serbian-cuisine' broken ref. Darren-M talk 01:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Can I invite discussion on the lead, which I can see has had intense edit warring. Can I propose we change:
Ajvar ( pronounced: /ˈaɪvɑːr/; Serbian: ajвар / ajvar; Bulgarian: aйвар, romanized: ayvar; Macedonian: aјвар, romanized: ajvar; Croatian: ajvar; Turkish: ayvar) is a condiment made principally from red bell peppers and oil. Ajvar is used in Southeast Europe, in Albania 🇦🇱,Kosovo🇽🇰🇦🇱👐🏽 Serbian, Bosnian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Macedonian, Montenegrin and to a small degree the Slovenian cuisine. It became a popular side dish throughout Yugoslavia after World War II and is nowadays popular in Southeastern Europe, however the delicacy itself is not claimed by a Balkan nation and instead is disputed in the region.
To
Ajvar is a condiment made principally from red bell peppers and oil. It became a popular side dish throughout Yugoslavia after World War II and is nowadays popular in Southeastern Europe.
Best, Darren-M talk 01:12, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Admin note: I am going to reduce the full protection to semi-protection. That should allow you regular users to restore a stable version of the lead. My impression is that the longtime stable version was something like this: "Ajvar is used in the Balkans in Albanian, Bosnian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Macedonian, Montenegrin, Serbian, and to a small degree the Slovenian cuisine." Recent changes and edit warring have involved adding Kosovo, removing and re-adding Albanian, and changing Balkans to Southern Europe. But this is just my impression, and I invite you regular editors to either restore a previous stable version, or to replace it with the simplified version proposed above (which might reduce the temptation to add and remove countries). -- MelanieN ( talk) 01:54, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
User:Deepfriedokra asked me to take a look at the page and evaluate the protection. My analysis is that full protection is not necessary to stop the disruption. It looks to me as if the nationalistic additions/removals/edit warring are being done by new users and IPs, while a few regular users try to restore the longtime stable version of the article. I think they should be allowed to do so and I am going to reduce the full protection to semi-protection. -- MelanieN ( talk) 01:44, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
We should also nominate this for the lamest edit-war page, nationalism in the Balkans never fails to surprise me. -- James Richards ( talk) 10:06, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:37, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
Page 81 read it do not delete this discussion
Oikos and Market: Explorations in Self-Sufficiency after Socialism https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=ZNGdBAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA81&dq=ajvar&ots=WkC0Xdiiqs&sig=PnkVa1EYksozdSI6FfyHFYDLnts#v=onepage&q=ajvar&f=true — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:CDA0:1060:4573:D65F:FCFB:8132 ( talk) 15:21, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Ajvar article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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![]() | This topic falls under discretionary sanctions. Please see here |
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As this article has been finally written nice and that is originally Serbian dish, can you please mark it as {{ Serbia-stub}} or so? Also you didn't put Serbia in [[ ]]. Thank you for correcting it in advance.
I agree with this. Please put Serbian and also Serbian Cyrillic + as Serbia-stub / article or Serbian cuisine. Thank you and smart move to lock it so vandals can't rename and put false facts. 79.175.120.216 ( talk) 19:45, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Most likely it originated in Serbia, since a lot of food from Serbia was influneced by Hungarian cuisine whitch then spread to north Serbia and lower. Serbia and Montenegro also have it's own recepes whitch use a lot of spices and ingredients found in ajvar such as paprikash and Punyene Paprika (spelling please, not a native Serbian speaker) As far as I know Serbia as well as Bulgaria and elements of their culture influenced Macedonia a lot during the time of SFRY, so it's plausable that Macedonia borrowed some of it's national cuisine into its own. For example, "sirene" is Bulgarian cheese but now you can also find it in Macedonia. --From Marusha.
There is also given false etymology: caviar and ajvar traces etymology to indo-iranian origin, word is much older than Ottoman conquests in Asia Minor and Balkans. Pre-Ottoman turkish dictionary does not have similar word. http://www.iranica.com/articles/caviar Someone common with linguistics and history knows for Slavic and Iranian contacts in lower Danube and Upper Caspian region. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.69.5.228 ( talk) 11:03, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Ajvar is not Serbian alone and origin is unknown 100%. It could be Macedonian or Croatian too...............; Lets call it Former Yugoslav or Balkan................
The fect that the word Paprika is of Serbian origin (which is accepted etimological fact) is a strong linguistic clue that ajvar comes from Serbia- see also Etimoloski recnik srpskog jezika, 1, 2003. -- Luzzifer 00:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
I♥Ajvar!Pinđur Sun Aug 19 08:54:28 2007 GMT —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
172.191.39.86 (
talk) 08:54:54, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
Wow so much ignorance , PINDJUR is more similar to baba ghanoush because it is made of eggplant. Ajvar is different.— Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
Alvar is Macedonian....You will not find ingredients of Ajvar in other countries. Other Balkan countries have versions of it. Point!
Why people are righting such nonsense (like explanation about ajvar and sirenje) without having any knowledge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.13.12.30 ( talk) 12:38, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Since when ajvar is made of bell peppers? I am Macedonian and I have never heard of such an ajvar. Maybe there are some remote chances for such thing existing somewhere (most likely an idividual idea rather than any uniform custom), but it is certainly extremely uncommon to the point of not even being worthy of mention in this article, let alone stating at the beginning that bell peppers are its primary ingredient ! -- B. Jankuloski 08:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
OK everybody! Let's make peace and call it, Italian/Global-style, peperone (plural: peperoni); and, mind you, NOT "pepperoni"! Ciao! Brumon ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:41, 6 February 2011 (UTC).
This is an automated message regarding an image used on this page. The image File:Ajvar hot Podravka.jpg, found on Ajvar, has been nominated for deletion because it does not meet Wikipedia image policy. Please see the image description page for more details. If this message was sent in error (that is, the image is not up for deletion, or was left on the wrong talk page), please contact this bot's operator. STBotI ( talk) 16:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
This article has seen too much edit warring, needs a lot of cleanup and falls under the discretionary sanctions put forth at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Macedonia#Discretionary_sanctions. All edits should be cited inline to an independent, verifiable source. More than one PoV or outlook can be carried, but all PoVs must be cited. Uncited text may be removed by any good faith editor. Any edits I've made to the text have been meant only as cleanup and/or mediation. Many of the edits I made have been undone, which is ok. I'm neutral and not involved as to the editorial content. If there is disagreement as to how sources should be echoed in the text, please talk about it here on the talk page, do not edit war. Users who edit war may be banned from this topic for some time. Gwen Gale ( talk) 12:01, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
please stop faking this page, since you have removed about 20 refferences Ardura ( talk) 19:01, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Just start from this point, Macedonia produces the most peppers(paprika) for Ajvar, it exports huge quantity of it to the balkan countries, practicaly all families make it throut the country, so I would say it is a more Macedonian thing then any other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.7.159.250 ( talk) 13:21, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
It originates from Serbian cuisine. Nevertheless who produces pepper : )) Leskovac peppers and ajvar are the best and big quantity ;) 109.121.8.189 ( talk) 03:24, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Paprika grows abundantly in southern Serbia and Macedonia and there's really no sharp border between these areas except purely political one (people on both sides live, talk and act mostly in same ways) so I'm ok with saying ajvar is either Macedonian or Serbian. As of claim it's Slovene, it's ridiculous, peppers don't grow in mountains.
why is this page locked? - Lostguy101 ( talk) 04:11, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
"However, the domestic production of ajvar/caviar was continuously striked since..."?
restarurants?
Don't the editors proof-read? Would have edited it myself, but since the article is locked, maybe an official editor will do the honors? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.180.156.114 ( talk) 15:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
{{edit semi-protected}}
Please include an external link to
http://palachinkablog.com/ajvar/. It is a step-by-step traditional recipe on making Ajvar in Serbia.
Palachinka (
talk)
10:23, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
isn't this an opinion? If it isn't an opinon I think it needs a source explaining why mass produced or foriegn can't cook the peppers correctly.
And it is misleading to say how little is produced unless it is specified that it is the Serbian variety. At a local grocery store there is a set of shelves filled with ajvar from a variety of places. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.79.210.95 ( talk) 08:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
I remember checking this page years ago. It used to claim that Ajvar was a Serbian dish without any neutral source given and all of the sources being Serbian. I raised an eyebrow, but didn't bother back then. And now I see that ajvar is listed as a Macedonian dish without any reliable, neutral sources given. And to make things worse, this was listed as a source by some Macedonian troll:
"A parody of Sigmund Freud's writings. This book features his theories about food and cooking, and recipes for his favorite dishes."
I won't even bother checking this out. How is this a reliable source? Let's assume that isn't an usual parody and that the author did a lot of research on ajvar (which is most unlikely, being a parody). This book was written in 70-ies when Macedonia was still a part of Yugoslavia and I can guess that the author probably tasted some ajvar that was produced in today's Macedonia (probably Vitaminka) and then mentioned it in his books. Someone might check it out and see if it even mentions ajvar.
I know that ajvar is considered a national dish in all countries of former Yugoslavia. This article really, REALLY needs some serious editing from someone more knowledge than myself. Someone might search for ajvar on Google, open this article and be left complete confused. I know that ajvar is loved in Macedonia (and IMHO Macedonia produces some awesome ajvars), but this is the first time I heard that ajvar is originally a Macedonian dish. I do not say that Serbian or Macedonian ajvar is wrong, but I do not think that anyone knows its true origins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.239.208 ( talk) 12:02, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
2016....and the fiasco with questionable sources remains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.138.44.223 ( talk) 22:31, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ajvar. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Ayvar as many know is spoken with the "j" pronounced as an "i", rendering "aivar" or ayvar, as its spelled abroad.
It is not appropriate for wikipedia to use non-English spellings of things because it results in an incorrect use of English. The letter "j" in English is used as an affricative, a "stopping" sound. This results in a crazy pronounciation of "ajvar" as "adge-var", or "ashe-var". It would be less confusing for researchers if the spelling of this article was changed to "Ayvar" in order to aid correct pronunciation of the word and more importantly, correct use of English. Addeps3 ( talk) 11:04, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
It is confusing for the average person to pronounce something arbitrarily and have the listener not understand what they're referring to. The relish is called ayvar, but colloqially spelled ajvar. Wikipedia can help correct this idiocy among people who dont know what ayvar is or how its spoken. My point about labels was that they are not mispronounced overseas, typically. Since that is how its pronounced, then it makes sense to spell it with correct English. Nobody reads ajvar as "ayvar" thus I was making a motion to shed light on things for people. Addeps3 ( talk) 17:22, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove emoji from lead. Amend Croatian language template in lead to use {{Template:Lang-hr}} Remove 'Ajvar-Serbian-cuisine' broken ref. Darren-M talk 01:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Can I invite discussion on the lead, which I can see has had intense edit warring. Can I propose we change:
Ajvar ( pronounced: /ˈaɪvɑːr/; Serbian: ajвар / ajvar; Bulgarian: aйвар, romanized: ayvar; Macedonian: aјвар, romanized: ajvar; Croatian: ajvar; Turkish: ayvar) is a condiment made principally from red bell peppers and oil. Ajvar is used in Southeast Europe, in Albania 🇦🇱,Kosovo🇽🇰🇦🇱👐🏽 Serbian, Bosnian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Macedonian, Montenegrin and to a small degree the Slovenian cuisine. It became a popular side dish throughout Yugoslavia after World War II and is nowadays popular in Southeastern Europe, however the delicacy itself is not claimed by a Balkan nation and instead is disputed in the region.
To
Ajvar is a condiment made principally from red bell peppers and oil. It became a popular side dish throughout Yugoslavia after World War II and is nowadays popular in Southeastern Europe.
Best, Darren-M talk 01:12, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Admin note: I am going to reduce the full protection to semi-protection. That should allow you regular users to restore a stable version of the lead. My impression is that the longtime stable version was something like this: "Ajvar is used in the Balkans in Albanian, Bosnian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Macedonian, Montenegrin, Serbian, and to a small degree the Slovenian cuisine." Recent changes and edit warring have involved adding Kosovo, removing and re-adding Albanian, and changing Balkans to Southern Europe. But this is just my impression, and I invite you regular editors to either restore a previous stable version, or to replace it with the simplified version proposed above (which might reduce the temptation to add and remove countries). -- MelanieN ( talk) 01:54, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
User:Deepfriedokra asked me to take a look at the page and evaluate the protection. My analysis is that full protection is not necessary to stop the disruption. It looks to me as if the nationalistic additions/removals/edit warring are being done by new users and IPs, while a few regular users try to restore the longtime stable version of the article. I think they should be allowed to do so and I am going to reduce the full protection to semi-protection. -- MelanieN ( talk) 01:44, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
We should also nominate this for the lamest edit-war page, nationalism in the Balkans never fails to surprise me. -- James Richards ( talk) 10:06, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:37, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
Page 81 read it do not delete this discussion
Oikos and Market: Explorations in Self-Sufficiency after Socialism https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=ZNGdBAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA81&dq=ajvar&ots=WkC0Xdiiqs&sig=PnkVa1EYksozdSI6FfyHFYDLnts#v=onepage&q=ajvar&f=true — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:CDA0:1060:4573:D65F:FCFB:8132 ( talk) 15:21, 12 February 2023 (UTC)