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The articles point-of-view is so biased I don't think it can be repaired. Just change the name? 178.75.128.166 ( talk) 11:53, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I could go on - the North African campaign apparently only started when the US got there, apparently. I don't believe that this is a fair reflection of the available English sources. Are there no sources in English that mention that the German focus on tactical bombing over strategic bombing was a vital part in blitzkreig and their initial success in France? Really I think the whole article could do with a fair bit of reworking - at the moment it lacks a clear structure, and keeps on going to unnecessary detail on specifics. Do we need to now details about Midway (for example) beyond the fact the US won and that it crippled Japan's naval and air power in the pacific? There is a specific article on Midway. But there is no mention of how advanced the Japanese aircraft were (particularly the Zero) only to be rapidly overtaken in the technology race by the US. I know I know - I'm free to change it myself. But I'm not an expert, don't have the time, and I'm not very good at writing. I don't think that precludes criticism. Sorry it's not as constructive as it perhaps could be, but well, limited time. And of course how I think the article should be written is probably not a good way - but just because I'm not a chef doesn't mean I can't tell when something doesn't taste nice. MojoJoJones ( talk) 14:32, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
I was just going to add a topic regarding the obvious American bias of this article. This article makes it seem like the Americans invented tactical air support and strategic bombing. There is no coverage of the Mediterranean before the Americans got there, as if the Regia Aeronautica did not exist. Important developments, such as the decisive role of air power in shipping in the Mediterranean, and the development of fighter bombers by the RAF in the Western Desert, go un-mentioned. The RAF area bombing does not receive equal weight vis-a-vis the American effort. And as other commentators have mentioned, there's insufficient coverage of German blitzkrieg tactics in Poland, France, the Balkans, etc, enabled by their initial air superiority. Catrìona ( talk) 20:25, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
There's a post on Reddit that misinterprets this section. The article speaks of "an aggressive air campaign against Japan using Chinese bases and American pilots wearing Chinese uniforms.[33]" The Flying Tigers attacked Japanese forces in China and Burma, not in Japan. They were there at the invitation of the Chinese, who had already been invaded, so it's probably not appropriate to call the campaign "aggressive". The citation used is only a partial link, and the full article is behind a pay wall, so it's not possible to confirm the part about Chinese uniforms, but that's not often mentioned in the commonly accepted history, which puts it in doubt. Nosecohn ( talk) 07:40, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
This article is not written proportionately to the importance of the various events it covers. The Battle of Britain, perhaps the single most important air battle in history, the first defeat ever inflicted on Nazi Germany, the first battle in history to be fought only in the air, and a battle that lasted several months involving several of the most famous aircraft ever built and which represents perhaps the pivotal turning point of the war, is only given a couple of paragraphs, most of which is cursorily written and inaccurate. I have attempted to correct some of this, but it still does not seem enough, particularly given the attention paid to the pacific campaigns et al.
Needs fixing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.17.238.32 ( talk) 23:21, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
This article says, "Kamikaze attacks were highly effective ... 4000 kamikaze sorties sank 38 US ships and damaged 368 more, killing 4,900 sailors..." Wait that means only 1% of the Kamikaze attacks actually damaged a ship, and the ratio of US deaths to kamikaze deaths is 1.225, of 5 to 4. That this is "highly effective" is the main reason I am reading this article.
The Tuskegee Airmen article says, "15,533 combat sorties, 112 German aircraft destroyed in the air, another 150 on the ground..." A total rate of one destroyed German aircraft in 60 sorties. These numbers say that you take off 138 times for each aircraft destroyed in the air!! A success rate of 0.7% !
I have seen similar numbers for other fighter units. Compare 1% or 0.7% for the above air combat to the Battle of Gettysburg. The Battle of Gettysburg was a ground action. In it 20% of the Union soldiers managed to kill or wound an enemy. These foot soldiers were 20 times more effective than the above airmen.
Those of us who know nothing about air warfare get the impression from popular media (movies) that every other time you fly you shoot down something. Thus ignorant me, I am surprised by these numbers, and cannot quite get myself to believe them.
Dr. Norman Friedman Naval Anti-Aircraft Guns and Gunnery backs that up pretty thoroughly. Tirronan ( talk) 03:18, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps no naval force in the world had endured a more intensive aerial campaign than the US Navy of WW2. During the course of the war, a naval report concluded that between 7500 and 8000 attacks were made on ships penetrating the combat air patrol. No less than 1300, aircraft were witnessed destroyed. Given the ratio of aircraft falling in sight of the ships to those unable to return to base or suffering total loss after landing rendered a figure of about 2800 being the total. [1]
Are these air combat numbers correct?!?!
Nick Beeson ( talk) 13:23, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
References
This article has the typical Anglo-German/Americo-Japanese slant of English-language histriography. There is no mention of Hungarian, Bulgarian, Belgian, Yugoslavian, Australian, Dutch or Brazilian air forces. Italy, Romania and Finland get only mentions, and Canada is barely better off. France is mentioned a lot, but not its air force, either 3rd Republic, Vichy or Free. Ditto for Poland. The Soviets are perhaps under-represented, but at least they get a section of their own. I can understand neglecting Bulgaria and Brazil. The sources are not abundant, but Italy? France? These were hardly inconsequential actors. 216.8.149.38 ( talk) 15:17, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
"Before 1944, however, the main German industrial targets were out of range, so the RAF bombers concentrated on military and transportation targets in France and Belgium.[9][10]"
This might have been true of fighters, but RAF bombers operated deep in Germany from the beginning of the war. It was the bombing of Berlin in 1940 that caused Hitler to divert his Blitzkrieg from airfields to cities, thereby losing the Battle of Britain. 96.54.42.226 ( talk) 00:30, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Hey guys, a table of the destroyed cities like in the german wiki would be nice: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftkrieg_im_Zweiten_Weltkrieg#Deutsches_Reich -- K4210 ( talk) 15:37, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
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This must be a joke. Few lines. No bombed city of Warsaw, first in Europe. Xx236 ( talk) 06:52, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
It is my feeling that this is far too broad a topic but assuming that you all wish its continuation...
1. The Axis powers have to be covered in far more detail. Specifically, how the Luftwaffe was envisioned as in a CAS configuration. The 1st perfection of the concept. 2. The entirety of the Eastern Front has to be covered. Start with the Invasion of Poland. 3. The entirety of the Pacific Front has to be covered. Including the China front. 4. This article is too American centric, and this is an American editor saying it! 5. Naval aviation came of age at this time and it isn't covered! Read your history and you will find late war TF 38 and TF 58 parked near islands and destroyed all air opposition. Tirronan ( talk) 17:58, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
The bombing raids on the German Reich proved for the most part completely useless and inefficient. The production could partly can even be increased.-- 2003:CB:2F25:DD17:1898:DCD:2A3B:BD99 ( talk) 10:15, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
Gliders were used in WW2, especially by the Nazis, but also by the Americans. Should this article cover gliders in the War? I think, at the very least, it should link to Military glider CessnaMan1989 ( talk) 16:17, 29 November 2021 (UTC)
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The articles point-of-view is so biased I don't think it can be repaired. Just change the name? 178.75.128.166 ( talk) 11:53, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I could go on - the North African campaign apparently only started when the US got there, apparently. I don't believe that this is a fair reflection of the available English sources. Are there no sources in English that mention that the German focus on tactical bombing over strategic bombing was a vital part in blitzkreig and their initial success in France? Really I think the whole article could do with a fair bit of reworking - at the moment it lacks a clear structure, and keeps on going to unnecessary detail on specifics. Do we need to now details about Midway (for example) beyond the fact the US won and that it crippled Japan's naval and air power in the pacific? There is a specific article on Midway. But there is no mention of how advanced the Japanese aircraft were (particularly the Zero) only to be rapidly overtaken in the technology race by the US. I know I know - I'm free to change it myself. But I'm not an expert, don't have the time, and I'm not very good at writing. I don't think that precludes criticism. Sorry it's not as constructive as it perhaps could be, but well, limited time. And of course how I think the article should be written is probably not a good way - but just because I'm not a chef doesn't mean I can't tell when something doesn't taste nice. MojoJoJones ( talk) 14:32, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
I was just going to add a topic regarding the obvious American bias of this article. This article makes it seem like the Americans invented tactical air support and strategic bombing. There is no coverage of the Mediterranean before the Americans got there, as if the Regia Aeronautica did not exist. Important developments, such as the decisive role of air power in shipping in the Mediterranean, and the development of fighter bombers by the RAF in the Western Desert, go un-mentioned. The RAF area bombing does not receive equal weight vis-a-vis the American effort. And as other commentators have mentioned, there's insufficient coverage of German blitzkrieg tactics in Poland, France, the Balkans, etc, enabled by their initial air superiority. Catrìona ( talk) 20:25, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
There's a post on Reddit that misinterprets this section. The article speaks of "an aggressive air campaign against Japan using Chinese bases and American pilots wearing Chinese uniforms.[33]" The Flying Tigers attacked Japanese forces in China and Burma, not in Japan. They were there at the invitation of the Chinese, who had already been invaded, so it's probably not appropriate to call the campaign "aggressive". The citation used is only a partial link, and the full article is behind a pay wall, so it's not possible to confirm the part about Chinese uniforms, but that's not often mentioned in the commonly accepted history, which puts it in doubt. Nosecohn ( talk) 07:40, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
This article is not written proportionately to the importance of the various events it covers. The Battle of Britain, perhaps the single most important air battle in history, the first defeat ever inflicted on Nazi Germany, the first battle in history to be fought only in the air, and a battle that lasted several months involving several of the most famous aircraft ever built and which represents perhaps the pivotal turning point of the war, is only given a couple of paragraphs, most of which is cursorily written and inaccurate. I have attempted to correct some of this, but it still does not seem enough, particularly given the attention paid to the pacific campaigns et al.
Needs fixing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.17.238.32 ( talk) 23:21, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
This article says, "Kamikaze attacks were highly effective ... 4000 kamikaze sorties sank 38 US ships and damaged 368 more, killing 4,900 sailors..." Wait that means only 1% of the Kamikaze attacks actually damaged a ship, and the ratio of US deaths to kamikaze deaths is 1.225, of 5 to 4. That this is "highly effective" is the main reason I am reading this article.
The Tuskegee Airmen article says, "15,533 combat sorties, 112 German aircraft destroyed in the air, another 150 on the ground..." A total rate of one destroyed German aircraft in 60 sorties. These numbers say that you take off 138 times for each aircraft destroyed in the air!! A success rate of 0.7% !
I have seen similar numbers for other fighter units. Compare 1% or 0.7% for the above air combat to the Battle of Gettysburg. The Battle of Gettysburg was a ground action. In it 20% of the Union soldiers managed to kill or wound an enemy. These foot soldiers were 20 times more effective than the above airmen.
Those of us who know nothing about air warfare get the impression from popular media (movies) that every other time you fly you shoot down something. Thus ignorant me, I am surprised by these numbers, and cannot quite get myself to believe them.
Dr. Norman Friedman Naval Anti-Aircraft Guns and Gunnery backs that up pretty thoroughly. Tirronan ( talk) 03:18, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps no naval force in the world had endured a more intensive aerial campaign than the US Navy of WW2. During the course of the war, a naval report concluded that between 7500 and 8000 attacks were made on ships penetrating the combat air patrol. No less than 1300, aircraft were witnessed destroyed. Given the ratio of aircraft falling in sight of the ships to those unable to return to base or suffering total loss after landing rendered a figure of about 2800 being the total. [1]
Are these air combat numbers correct?!?!
Nick Beeson ( talk) 13:23, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
References
This article has the typical Anglo-German/Americo-Japanese slant of English-language histriography. There is no mention of Hungarian, Bulgarian, Belgian, Yugoslavian, Australian, Dutch or Brazilian air forces. Italy, Romania and Finland get only mentions, and Canada is barely better off. France is mentioned a lot, but not its air force, either 3rd Republic, Vichy or Free. Ditto for Poland. The Soviets are perhaps under-represented, but at least they get a section of their own. I can understand neglecting Bulgaria and Brazil. The sources are not abundant, but Italy? France? These were hardly inconsequential actors. 216.8.149.38 ( talk) 15:17, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
"Before 1944, however, the main German industrial targets were out of range, so the RAF bombers concentrated on military and transportation targets in France and Belgium.[9][10]"
This might have been true of fighters, but RAF bombers operated deep in Germany from the beginning of the war. It was the bombing of Berlin in 1940 that caused Hitler to divert his Blitzkrieg from airfields to cities, thereby losing the Battle of Britain. 96.54.42.226 ( talk) 00:30, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Hey guys, a table of the destroyed cities like in the german wiki would be nice: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftkrieg_im_Zweiten_Weltkrieg#Deutsches_Reich -- K4210 ( talk) 15:37, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:10, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
This must be a joke. Few lines. No bombed city of Warsaw, first in Europe. Xx236 ( talk) 06:52, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
It is my feeling that this is far too broad a topic but assuming that you all wish its continuation...
1. The Axis powers have to be covered in far more detail. Specifically, how the Luftwaffe was envisioned as in a CAS configuration. The 1st perfection of the concept. 2. The entirety of the Eastern Front has to be covered. Start with the Invasion of Poland. 3. The entirety of the Pacific Front has to be covered. Including the China front. 4. This article is too American centric, and this is an American editor saying it! 5. Naval aviation came of age at this time and it isn't covered! Read your history and you will find late war TF 38 and TF 58 parked near islands and destroyed all air opposition. Tirronan ( talk) 17:58, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
The bombing raids on the German Reich proved for the most part completely useless and inefficient. The production could partly can even be increased.-- 2003:CB:2F25:DD17:1898:DCD:2A3B:BD99 ( talk) 10:15, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
Gliders were used in WW2, especially by the Nazis, but also by the Americans. Should this article cover gliders in the War? I think, at the very least, it should link to Military glider CessnaMan1989 ( talk) 16:17, 29 November 2021 (UTC)