This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
The article is well written, congrats to the author (assuming its his/her own research), just a note of concern however, exactly what does this line in the 5th paragraph mean?
"While the Portuguese expedition were victorious in most of their engagements with Ahmad's forces, da Gama allowed himself to be trapped by Ahmad somewhere north of the Tekezé River, where he was killed along with all but 140 of his troops."
perhaps its just me but the sentence suggests the Portugese general da Gama ALLOWED himself to be captured. Does it assume the Somalis were unable to capture him? or was this some selfless act by an invading European, giving up his life so that his troops may be saved? Both seems doubtful and strage at best, kindly clear it up.
franz fanon
Though the article isn't big enough to warrant a split right now, I think that we should have two separate articles. One for the Ahmed Gragn, and one for the invasion of Ethiopia by Adal. The two are obviously distinct even if they are so closely related. — ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk 21:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- KGV ( Talk) 05:00, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree there is the possibility that Ahmed Gurey could have been a Afar and i have no problems with that being mentioned. from the added info:
1. He has a nephew Muhammad bin Ali, whose mother was the Imam's aunt; Muhammad was the Sultan of the Somali tribe of Zarba.
if the Mother of a Sultan of a Somali tribe is the sister of Ahmed Gurey's Mother or Father how is this not a Somali connection?
2. The Futuh mentions one Ibrahim bin Ahmad as a ruler of the Adal Sultanate for three months, whose name suggests that he may be the Imam's father. This Ibrahim is described as one of the Belew people and previously having been the ruler of the town of Hubat.[8] The possible connection between the two is strengthened by the fact Hubat is later mentioned as one of the power bases of Imam Ahmad (the other being Za'ka).
^^to claim this part regarding the connection between the Belew people and Ahmed Gurey and then at the same time claim the following
Then there are numerous occasions where the Futuh supplies evidence for an argument from silence. There are numerous passages in the Futuh where Imam Ahmad and the Somali people are mentioned together, and never once does 'Arab Faqih mention the ethnic connection.
which ethnic connection was made in Futuh between Ahmed and Adalites that justifies the isolation of the Somali people?
3. Further, the Somali warriors are described as having fled during the Battle of Shimbra Kure; had the Imam been Somali, would the Futuh which otherwise praises the Imam at every turn, would this embarassing detail have been mentioned?[10]
Pure speculation and personal interpretation of the text, the Futuh also mentioned the amount of destruction Ahmed's army caused and that's not praising someone's legacy, not to forget the many times these Same warrior were praised in Futuh
4. Somali forces contributed much to the Imam’s victories. Shihab ad-Din, the Muslim chronicler of the period, writing between 1540 and 1560, mentions them frequently. (Fatuh al-Habasha, ed. And trs. R. Besset Paris, 1897.)
it looks very POV to me RoboRanks 04:18, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps unintentionally the title and introduction of the article contradicts Wikipedia's NPOV policy. When a reader opens the page the first thing she or he sees is the title exalting the person as "al-Ghazi" (Ghazi is the equivalent of "hero for Islam" in Arabic, a person of great bravery who performs extraordinary and praiseworthy deeds for Islam) and the monument with the statue in memory of Ahmad Gragn. There was no mention of Ahmad ibn Ibrihim's invasion of Ethiopia in the first paragraph (I have corrected this), only that he had fought against Ethiopian emperors. It was by reading further down that one could get a clue that from the point of view of the Ethiopians Ahmad Gragn was an invader that slaughtered his way through their country killing thousands of Ethiopian people and destroying their homes and churches. Since the façade of the article places undue weight on Ahmad Gragn being perceived as a hero, the article is pejorative towards the Ethiopians as it is. The article should be renamed "Ahmad Gragn" or "Ahmad ibn Ibrihim". leaving the hero title out; unless this is corrected, the article is violating the NPOV policy. Xufanc ( talk) 01:22, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
imam ahmed was nationally ethiopian because he lived in present day ethiopia so the whole "invasion" shouldnt be included also ahmed is technially the first to try to unite the abyssinian muslim and christians by attempting to become king of abyssinia..now since there's people coming on this page and putting in harari constantly i have found a source stating he is harari hopefully this stops the edit wars. i will add it in when i get the time http://books.google.ca/books?id=uD8OAQAAMAAJ&q=ahmad+ibn+ibrahim+al+ghazi+harari&dq=ahmad+ibn+ibrahim+al+ghazi+harari&source=bl&ots=YkUurZqRP-&sig=jSpGTOXdF5Q58bpdyMh5DsyKBEk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fxJFULTUErO60QHbnoHoCw&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAg Baboon43 ( talk) 21:02, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Baboon43: Like I wrote, allusions to Imam Ahmad being Harari are almost certainly references to the fact that he lived in Harar (i.e. was a "person from Harar"), not that he was a native Harari speaker. This is because Al-Ghazi was conversant in Arabic and didn't actually understand Ge'ez, an Ethiosemitic language closely related to Harari. There's a book called the Anqasa Amin that was written during Imam Ahmad's lifetime and which is actually addressed to him. Enbaqom, an Arab monk, wrote the original manuscript in Arabic so that Al-Ghazi would understand it; it was later translated into Ge'ez:
simply saying somali for example on a source is not good enough either since some sources would even list harari as a sub clan of somalis so unless a direct subclan is mentioned its hard to know what the term somali may mean..i believe in R.A. Caulk he assumes the start of emirate is when the oromo began to surround the city and that is when emir nur built the wall because by the time of the rule of emir nur the hararis were confined to the walls but that it only became independent when the new dynasty started under ali which broke off from aussa..so just because harar region was under adal doesnt mean the people didnt exist. it could very well be accpetable to include the lines "ancestors of modern harari"..an issue that might arise is that the term harari started with abadir umar not emir nur..i believe emir nur is credited for restricting hararis within the walls but umar may have been the one that formed the harari group out of the ethnic groups that existed like harla etc.."The beginnings of Harari national identity can be traced to the arrival in 1216 of Sheikh Abadir Umar ar-Rida."- African Arts, volume 42 Baboon43 ( talk) 19:53, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I should not have to explain that "Wrecking and causing much damage" is not professional encyclopedic language. NPOV. You would not find it even in Hitler's and the Khans article, these are colorful terms with bias embedded in the meaning. He invaded, that is it. You can look at other articles of "invasion" and see the standarization of tone, again, this is made explicitly clear in Wiki preferred WP:TONE. Make him sound like a child throwing a fit. I am sure better words are available with less spectacle. -- Inayity ( talk) 16:52, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
you cant come up with consensus to push your POV on wikipedia..the lede cant have somali as explained over at WP:NPOVN Baboon43 ( talk) 20:17, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Citated from WP:Undue weight. Runehelmet ( talk) 15:19, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
p. 181 review of "Futuh" by Mohammed Hassen [15]
"Imam Ahmad was born probably in 1506. The name of Ahmads mother is not mentioned by Arab Faqih. However, according to one Ethiopian Christian source, she was known as Shamshiy." Baboon43 ( talk) 20:55, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
al-Ghazi is not part of his birth name, but rather just a nickname. "al-Ghazi" means "the Conquer" which is his most common nickname. His real name, however is "Ahmad ibn Ibrahim". Should this articles title be changed? Will this even affect how many people view the page?
Also, why are there 13 sources that are about him being Harari? AcidSnow ( talk) 00:07, 26 April (UTC)
Edit: It turnes that all but 4 of the sources regarding his ethnicity actually state that he was "Harari". Whats more shocking is that six of the original sources actually said he was Somali! I do, however, doubt that he was an ethnic Harari, but rather a "Harari" in the sense that were he ruled from. An example would be George III of the United Kingdom, whom ruled from London and is called "English" by historians, but was actually ethnically German. I have plan to remove those that say he was Harari shortly. AcidSnow ( talk) 00:07, 26 April 2014 (UTC) Edit 2: Seeing how most of the articles refs were fake citations about him being Harari, I plan to nuke this article with refs and pictures actually about him. AcidSnow ( talk) 01:59, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
zeila the birth place of ahmed gran is in present day somalia and was also inhabited by somalis 500 years ago
afars were part of the kingdom just like the harari's but doesn't make ahmed gran a harari evendo he made harar the capital of Adal
the imam was supported mainly by his own people the somalis
here is an excerpt from the french historian Rene Basset
http://i2.tinypic.com/t0i0s9.jpg
so when did harari start? do you think hararis are a new ethnic group? i suggest you read history by the way ahmad al ghazi was harari not somali or afar. Baboon43 ( talk) 06:24, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
His was actually Half Harari and Half Somali. Harari234 ( talk) 19:25, 24 March 2015
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 14:57, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:10, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
There are two main fractions of the Gadabursi, the Habar Afan and Habar Makadur. The latter making up roughly 90%.
In Page 27 of the Futuh Al Habasha: Conquest of Abyssinia it mentions Ahmed Gerri(Gurey) of the Somali and him being of the Habr Makadi/Maqdi. Underneath the page it states that it was the Habar Makadur of the Gadabursi.
Page 43 mentions that the first tribe to reach the Imam was the Habar Maqadi/Makadi/Maqdi and they encamped above the valley of Harar. When looking at British archives and research. This is the Gadabursi country of the Harar Valley, Haraghe Valley or Harrawwa valley.
The strongest evidence is page 82 of the "Futuh Al-Habasha: The Conquest of Abyssinia" which mentions Husain Musa Bin 'Abd Allah Makida, he is of the Habr Maqdi clan. This strongly fits into the Gadabursi genealogy as Husain Musa Bin 'Abd Allah "Makidor".
The Habar pre-fix is removed when doing the "abtirsi(patrilineage)" just like with the Garhajis etc.
Another thing to note is the that he is mentioned as chieftain and the Marehan leader is mentioned as a chieftain. The Somali word for chieftain is Ugaas, which the Gadabursi Ugaasdom being one of the most famous having been established in the 1600's one century after the Adal wars. The female founder of the Ugaasdom was from the Geri clan and her name was Queen Khadija.
Among the sub-clans of the Mahad 'Ase of the Habr Makador or Makador there is a clan called "reer Hiraab" again this confirms that the Habr Makador partook in the Jihad with the Marehan. Also one of the Ugaases of the Gadabursi was named Hiraab.
Among the southern Mandalug the relatives of the Gadabursi whom have been scattered thanks to the Adal wars. Among them in the south is a sub-clan too called Makador. That sub-clan is named "Ahmed Guray". The lineage of them goes as follows "Reer Ahmed Guray - Muse - Makador" again re-affirming the participation of the Habr Makador in the jihad and "Conquest of Abyssinia or Futuh Al Habasha and Ahmed Gerri or Guray mentioned in the book being of the Habr Makador
Of course the Gadabursi relationship with the clans mentioned in the book and proximity to them (especially the Geri, but also Barsuk, Gorgorah, Hawiye) is evident of them joining the wars and upbringing of the Gadabursi youth for generations on the history of Ahmed Guray and the elders having accounts of the war and which subclan Ahmed Guray belonged to of the Habr Makidor (Mahad 'Asse) has never been forgotten among the Gadabursi. The book just re-affirms and proves it. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
AbwaanRooble (
talk •
contribs)
15:36, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
Magaadi again the name in the book is Magaadi not Makadur and the gudabirsi clan dont have habar name in their lineage and from all Somali historians like DR. SAADIQ EENOW and Prof. Maxamed Cabdi Gaandi who is a known historian from jubbaland says that what you are saying is wrong in his lectors called ISIRKA SOMALIDA even Prof. Cabdalla Cumar Mansuur says that your theory is funny in his lectors Bandhigga Buuggiisa "Taariikhda iyo Luuqadda Bulshada Soomaaliyeed" so all these learned professors and all the books about Ahmed Gurey which say that Magadle or Habar Magadle are Isaaq all of them are wrong and you and your new neverheared about before theory is right and you want us to accept this and like i said before don't twist the name so it suits you (Magadle) not (Makadur) and in the book it is [Magaadi] which of names it closer tob the orignal in the book? AbwaanRooble Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f . Bysomalilander ( talk) 18:46, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
so now read this very carefully ; how in world is
AND WANT ME TO ACCEPT
Please read this very carefully
Bysomalilander. Wikipedia editing isn't an online tutorial class. If you don't know how to properly cite and research, please don't delete other people's work and instead set about finding other avenues in educating yourself on how to.
The secondary source you keep holding on to is from 1987, and is not even a 1/3 about Ahmed Gurey or the Adal Sultanate.
Somalia: nation in search of a state David D. Laitin, Said S. Samatar - Westview Press, 1987
These author's sourced Rene Besset's 1897-1901 French translation of the "Futuh Al Habasa".
The source you keep deleting:
The primary scholarly source on this subject "The Conquest of Abyssinia: Futuh Al Habasa". This wide-spread english translation is from 2005, is almost entirely based on Ahmed Gurey and the Adal Sultanate. It also has what the 1897 French translation didn't have: modern day scholars of East African history and demographics working on it.
"The Conquest of Abyssinia: Futuh Al Habasa" by Shihab Al-Din Ahmad Arabfaqih (Author), Translated by Paul Lester Stenhouse With the annotation suggesting Habr Maqdi is the Habr Makador.
Edited by Richard Pankhurst, a renowned academic scholar of Ethiopia and East Africa.
To meet the academic standards of currency and credibility, a new sentence was made with reference to this most up-to-date verifiable source.
Bysomalilander you not only did you delete the most up-to-date credible source but also other sources (of different segments and topics), spelling/grammar corrections, and transcriptions. You are a vandal because you didn't just edit this source/section, you tried to destroy everything everybody worked on.
-- User:Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f1 ( talk) 22:59, 7 October 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f ( talk • contribs)
And to give you a better link that is not only words here is a lecture by Prof. Cabdalla Cumar Mansuur who is from south Somalia so you don't think that he is Isaaq or from the north Somalia ``Somaliland`` .
In his lecture the Professor is talking about the Somali history and in one point talks about how every clans claims that Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi is from them even the Ethiopians say so with out any proof and then the Professor talks about another leader of Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi by the name Ahmad ibn Ibrahim.
Who is from Habr Maqdi and says by his own words in Somali language there are two main factions in the Isaaq clan Habr Hubushiad and forgets the other faction and says Habr madelah come on people help me which is the faction in the Isaaq clan name and one guy says Magaadleh .
And the the Professor says that's right Magaadleh of isaaq clan which was one of the leaders of Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi and then the Professor says that people confuse between the two men for having the same name and fathers name but that one was Somali Isaaq Ahmad ibn Ibrahim and the other the famous Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi only God knows if is a Somali. this is my translation you will find it between 00:00 to 1:34 minute in the lecture. about what the Professor says in Somali to English Prof. Cabdalla Cumar Mansuur watch on youtube in Somali,so like you can see for your self in Somali language that you know Prof. Cabdalla Cumar Mansuur says that Habr Maqdi is the Habr Magadle of Isaaq. Bysomalilander ( talk) 17:46, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
Bysomalilander for the second time, the primary source, the most current translation, "The Conquest of Abyssinia: Futuh Al Habasa"
by Shihab Al-Din Ahmad Arabfaqih (Author), translated by Paul Lester Stenhouse, and edited by Richard Pankhurst has as
annotation 106:
"Probably the Habr Makkadur, a Somali clan, I.M. Lewis, Peoples of the Horn of Africa, p 25"
What does this mean?
Richard Pankhurst, willingly, picked this particular group and referenced who they were in I.M. Lewis' work when he was perfectly free to choose "Habr Magaadle". Additionally, he and Paul Stenhouse (translator) picked "Habr Makkadur" after going through the original arabic manuscripts and Rene Besset's 1987 french translation. Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f ( talk) 03:25, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
----
to separate your cmt's, the correct way is explained here:
Help:Using_talk_pages#Indentation. Thank you, -
Mlpearc (
open channel)
03:57, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
Bysomalilander Did you even bother looking at the reference "I.M. Lewis, Peoples of the Horn of Africa, p 25"? It's right there. For the third time, the translator worked out Habr Maqdi. Richard Pankhurst made the annotation. My question is, why did he? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f ( talk • contribs) 19:20, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
There is of course the chance that this could be incorrect but the problem is that this is the primary source and no other professional english translation/analysis exists. The previous translation of these manuscripts were made in 1897. Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f ( talk) 20:37, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello Bysomalilander even though there is every reason to believe more clans took part in the Conquest of Abyssinia, since part 2 of the authors book was never found, I will not allow propaganda to be spread on the article Ahmed Gran. We can reach a consensus and remove all clans from the page Ahmed Gran or we can keep reverting our edits. - AlaskaLava
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:25, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
This edit by a user which he believes is somehow legitimate and necessary is a retelling of the Ethiopian-Adal conflict that is already thoroughly explained in the well-sourced Invasion of Ethiopia section of the article (which itself is a summary of the larger Ethiopian-Adal War article). The difference is that this time, the contributor has used questionable sources such as this Christian website (Christianity-guide.com) and this other article written by a guy with an Ethiopian name (Agaredech Jemaneh) that's hosted on an Ethiopian website, RealEthiopia.com -- a website which, in its own words:
...was developed with only one goal in mind, to promote Ethiopia as a tourist destination for both international and domestic travellers. RealEthiopia.com is where you discover Ethiopia as it is - the authoritative resource about Ethiopia on the web, covering all aspects of your information need about Ethiopia, whether you are planning to travel to Ethiopia or already live in Ethiopia, you will find engaging and useful content, presented the way you want it.
Here's what RealEthiopia has to say about its content contribution:
The initial content of RealEthiopia.com was developed in effort with external consultants but we also welcome user contributions in the different subjects we cover on RealEthiopia.com, as long as they conform to our content policy, by using our submission form (currently deactivated, please contact us through our contact form for content processing).
In other words, everything is either personally compiled by themselves, or, as in the case of the above article written by one Agaredech Jemaneh, is user-contributed. They don't even require a reference list for verification. All they require is that contributing writers make sure that their work "conforms to RealEthiopia.com's content policy" -- a policy which, incidentally, specificies that RealEthiopia "only allow reviews based on personal experiences."
Moreover, neither Christianity-guide.com nor RealEthiopia.com state where they got their information from since it obviously wasn't the product of any first-hand historical research on their part.
The Wiki editor's latest edit includes this source from a Somali website, which he believes is somehow more reliable although the page clearly states that the article was "sent by" one "Suleiman Nousa Elmi, Noraway" (i.e. it too is user-contributed). The article also does not list any references; in other words, the information here too is unverifiable.
He has also included the highly suspicious claim that Imam Ahmad was decapitated, when sources typically state that it was da Gama who, in fact, was decaptitated, (e.g. "Lake Tana and the Blue Nile: An Abyssinian Quest" by Robert Ernest Cheesman, p.381: "In one of the early battles with Gran's troops de Gama was captured and decapitated...") and often by al-Ghazi himself (e.g. "The Church in Africa: 1450-1950" by Adrian Hastings, p.138: "Da Gama, wounded and captured, was dragged before Gran to behold the heads of 160 Portuguese displayed in front of him before he too was decapitated by Gran himself."). The editor also never cites the exact page number in the source where he got that information from so that users may verify the information for themselves. And per Wiki policies, exceptional claims require exceptional sources.
In short, if the editor wishes to contribute a line or two to the article -- which is on Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi, not the Ethiopian-Adal War -- to the effect that the war perhaps also served as a proxy for the Ottoman and the Portuguese, he should do so in the properly-sourced section of the article where the war is already discussed; namely, the Invasion of Ethiopia section. He should also do so employing unbiased, reliable sources and a neutral point of view, as opposed to relying on Christian, Ethiopian, Somali, or Muslim sources as I've already explained in my edit summary. Causteau ( talk) 05:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
As was the case in many parts of the world of the time, African Christians and Muslims in this horn of African region were getting military and other assistance from external parties. The external states were often motivated by religious, economic and strategic interests. While the Orthodox Ethiopian highlanders received assistance from Portugal, Imam Ahmad and his Muslim forces got manpower and weapon assistance from Arabia and the Turkish Ottoman Empire.
The Ethiopians were forced to ask for help from the Portuguese, who landed at the port of Massawa on February 10, 1541, during the reign of the emperor Gelawdewos. The force was led by Cristóvão da Gama and included 400 musketeers as well as a number of artisans and other non-combatants... According to Abbé Joachim le Grand, Imam Ahmad received 2000 musketeers from Arabia, and artillery and 900 picked men from the Ottomans to assist him.
While Arabia sent thousands of fighters to help the Muslim army of Imam Ahmad invade Christian Ethiopians, the Ottomans provided Imam Ahmad artillery and several hundred soldiers.
The Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, Selim I established Ottoman rule in Egypt, and created a naval presence on the Red Sea. After this Ottoman expansion, a competition started between the Portuguese Empire and the Ottoman Empire to become the dominant power in the region.
RealEthiopia.com was developed with only one goal in mind, promote Ethiopia as a tourist destination for both international and domestic travellers.
Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for fact-checking. Questionable sources include websites and publications that rely heavily on rumors and personal opinions, are promotional in nature, or express views that are widely acknowledged as extremist or pseudoscience.
The primary source for the death of the imam is Miguel de Castanhoso who fought at the last battle and clearly states how a teenage Abyssinian captain followed the imam(while he was running) and killed him and beheaded him. Although it seems he had beheaded him after killing him the captain was a horseman thus the conclusionis that he had stabbed and beheaded the imam. Bin Mulat ( talk) 21:52, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
The Akisho, Gadabuursi, and Leelkase articles each claim that Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi (Ahmed Gurey) was a member of those respective Somali clans. None of these articles cite a reference, though. Was any sort of clan affiliation ever documented? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 04:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
No, it wasn't. It is presumed these confederated large clans (that is the four major ones) that exist now actually came at that time or later. No one knows his true Soomaali clan. Many different clans claim, with absurd assertions. Soomaali March 13, 2006
There's evidence that he was actually Afar (but he could be either), and the quotation has little to do with him, being relevant for the article at Adal instead, so I've removed the information, and added relevant info to Adal. Btw, Futuh didn't apparently didn't even mention his ethnicity at all. — ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk 21:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Ahmed Ibrahim Ghazi was from the Dir clan is an agreed fact amoung Somalis. However, the real dispute that remains is was he a Gadabuursi Dir or Madahweyn Dir(Akisho or Gurgure). Their is a plenty evidence that this Somali hero is from the Gadabursi whose present day homeland is called Awdal (Adal) which is the kingdom Gurey ruled. Futhermore, it is in the Gadabuursi Mandaluug Dir region which the Christian Ethiopians always targeted in the attacks against Ahmed Gurey and today in the Amuud region you will find the ruines of buildings where the ancient Samaroon used to live and it was the hometown of the Somali saint and general Imaam Said Samaroon who was the defender of the western flank of the Somali nation from Amhara intrusions.
Imam Ahmed Gureey could not be from the Darood clan since he lived in the 1500's before even the Yemani ancestor of the Darood(Darood Ibu Ismail Jabarti reached the shores of Somali. Therefore, Gurey was from the Dir Mandaluug or Madahweyn clan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.219.199.169 ( talk • contribs) 13:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Ahmed Amin Nur was from Marehan, and until today his clan called Ina Nuur is part of Marehan clan in Eithopia. On the other hand anyone, who needs proof about Ahmed Guray could get more information in Eithopia, especaily among the Somali normads. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.154.51.128 ( talk • contribs) 02:28, May 22, 2007 (UTC)
I am not Marehan, I am Habir Gidir Hawiiye, but Ahmed Gurey is Marehan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.254.12.146 ( talk) 23:22, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Ahmed Gurey was Marehan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.254.0.147 ( talk) 18:54, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Ahmed is repeatedly distincted from the somalis and the somalis were reported as retreating when the imam was advancing in the battle of shimbta kure also he was in conflict with them at one time where he chased them till they neared the sea. Ahmad Guray is also descrined differently from the imam ahmad in futuh al habasha. So most probably he was a harla or afar of arab ancestry. Bin Mulat ( talk) 13:24, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
The article is well written, congrats to the author (assuming its his/her own research), just a note of concern however, exactly what does this line in the 5th paragraph mean?
"While the Portuguese expedition were victorious in most of their engagements with Ahmad's forces, da Gama allowed himself to be trapped by Ahmad somewhere north of the Tekezé River, where he was killed along with all but 140 of his troops."
perhaps its just me but the sentence suggests the Portugese general da Gama ALLOWED himself to be captured. Does it assume the Somalis were unable to capture him? or was this some selfless act by an invading European, giving up his life so that his troops may be saved? Both seems doubtful and strage at best, kindly clear it up.
franz fanon
Though the article isn't big enough to warrant a split right now, I think that we should have two separate articles. One for the Ahmed Gragn, and one for the invasion of Ethiopia by Adal. The two are obviously distinct even if they are so closely related. — ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk 21:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- KGV ( Talk) 05:00, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree there is the possibility that Ahmed Gurey could have been a Afar and i have no problems with that being mentioned. from the added info:
1. He has a nephew Muhammad bin Ali, whose mother was the Imam's aunt; Muhammad was the Sultan of the Somali tribe of Zarba.
if the Mother of a Sultan of a Somali tribe is the sister of Ahmed Gurey's Mother or Father how is this not a Somali connection?
2. The Futuh mentions one Ibrahim bin Ahmad as a ruler of the Adal Sultanate for three months, whose name suggests that he may be the Imam's father. This Ibrahim is described as one of the Belew people and previously having been the ruler of the town of Hubat.[8] The possible connection between the two is strengthened by the fact Hubat is later mentioned as one of the power bases of Imam Ahmad (the other being Za'ka).
^^to claim this part regarding the connection between the Belew people and Ahmed Gurey and then at the same time claim the following
Then there are numerous occasions where the Futuh supplies evidence for an argument from silence. There are numerous passages in the Futuh where Imam Ahmad and the Somali people are mentioned together, and never once does 'Arab Faqih mention the ethnic connection.
which ethnic connection was made in Futuh between Ahmed and Adalites that justifies the isolation of the Somali people?
3. Further, the Somali warriors are described as having fled during the Battle of Shimbra Kure; had the Imam been Somali, would the Futuh which otherwise praises the Imam at every turn, would this embarassing detail have been mentioned?[10]
Pure speculation and personal interpretation of the text, the Futuh also mentioned the amount of destruction Ahmed's army caused and that's not praising someone's legacy, not to forget the many times these Same warrior were praised in Futuh
4. Somali forces contributed much to the Imam’s victories. Shihab ad-Din, the Muslim chronicler of the period, writing between 1540 and 1560, mentions them frequently. (Fatuh al-Habasha, ed. And trs. R. Besset Paris, 1897.)
it looks very POV to me RoboRanks 04:18, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps unintentionally the title and introduction of the article contradicts Wikipedia's NPOV policy. When a reader opens the page the first thing she or he sees is the title exalting the person as "al-Ghazi" (Ghazi is the equivalent of "hero for Islam" in Arabic, a person of great bravery who performs extraordinary and praiseworthy deeds for Islam) and the monument with the statue in memory of Ahmad Gragn. There was no mention of Ahmad ibn Ibrihim's invasion of Ethiopia in the first paragraph (I have corrected this), only that he had fought against Ethiopian emperors. It was by reading further down that one could get a clue that from the point of view of the Ethiopians Ahmad Gragn was an invader that slaughtered his way through their country killing thousands of Ethiopian people and destroying their homes and churches. Since the façade of the article places undue weight on Ahmad Gragn being perceived as a hero, the article is pejorative towards the Ethiopians as it is. The article should be renamed "Ahmad Gragn" or "Ahmad ibn Ibrihim". leaving the hero title out; unless this is corrected, the article is violating the NPOV policy. Xufanc ( talk) 01:22, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
imam ahmed was nationally ethiopian because he lived in present day ethiopia so the whole "invasion" shouldnt be included also ahmed is technially the first to try to unite the abyssinian muslim and christians by attempting to become king of abyssinia..now since there's people coming on this page and putting in harari constantly i have found a source stating he is harari hopefully this stops the edit wars. i will add it in when i get the time http://books.google.ca/books?id=uD8OAQAAMAAJ&q=ahmad+ibn+ibrahim+al+ghazi+harari&dq=ahmad+ibn+ibrahim+al+ghazi+harari&source=bl&ots=YkUurZqRP-&sig=jSpGTOXdF5Q58bpdyMh5DsyKBEk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fxJFULTUErO60QHbnoHoCw&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAg Baboon43 ( talk) 21:02, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Baboon43: Like I wrote, allusions to Imam Ahmad being Harari are almost certainly references to the fact that he lived in Harar (i.e. was a "person from Harar"), not that he was a native Harari speaker. This is because Al-Ghazi was conversant in Arabic and didn't actually understand Ge'ez, an Ethiosemitic language closely related to Harari. There's a book called the Anqasa Amin that was written during Imam Ahmad's lifetime and which is actually addressed to him. Enbaqom, an Arab monk, wrote the original manuscript in Arabic so that Al-Ghazi would understand it; it was later translated into Ge'ez:
simply saying somali for example on a source is not good enough either since some sources would even list harari as a sub clan of somalis so unless a direct subclan is mentioned its hard to know what the term somali may mean..i believe in R.A. Caulk he assumes the start of emirate is when the oromo began to surround the city and that is when emir nur built the wall because by the time of the rule of emir nur the hararis were confined to the walls but that it only became independent when the new dynasty started under ali which broke off from aussa..so just because harar region was under adal doesnt mean the people didnt exist. it could very well be accpetable to include the lines "ancestors of modern harari"..an issue that might arise is that the term harari started with abadir umar not emir nur..i believe emir nur is credited for restricting hararis within the walls but umar may have been the one that formed the harari group out of the ethnic groups that existed like harla etc.."The beginnings of Harari national identity can be traced to the arrival in 1216 of Sheikh Abadir Umar ar-Rida."- African Arts, volume 42 Baboon43 ( talk) 19:53, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I should not have to explain that "Wrecking and causing much damage" is not professional encyclopedic language. NPOV. You would not find it even in Hitler's and the Khans article, these are colorful terms with bias embedded in the meaning. He invaded, that is it. You can look at other articles of "invasion" and see the standarization of tone, again, this is made explicitly clear in Wiki preferred WP:TONE. Make him sound like a child throwing a fit. I am sure better words are available with less spectacle. -- Inayity ( talk) 16:52, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
you cant come up with consensus to push your POV on wikipedia..the lede cant have somali as explained over at WP:NPOVN Baboon43 ( talk) 20:17, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Citated from WP:Undue weight. Runehelmet ( talk) 15:19, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
p. 181 review of "Futuh" by Mohammed Hassen [15]
"Imam Ahmad was born probably in 1506. The name of Ahmads mother is not mentioned by Arab Faqih. However, according to one Ethiopian Christian source, she was known as Shamshiy." Baboon43 ( talk) 20:55, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
al-Ghazi is not part of his birth name, but rather just a nickname. "al-Ghazi" means "the Conquer" which is his most common nickname. His real name, however is "Ahmad ibn Ibrahim". Should this articles title be changed? Will this even affect how many people view the page?
Also, why are there 13 sources that are about him being Harari? AcidSnow ( talk) 00:07, 26 April (UTC)
Edit: It turnes that all but 4 of the sources regarding his ethnicity actually state that he was "Harari". Whats more shocking is that six of the original sources actually said he was Somali! I do, however, doubt that he was an ethnic Harari, but rather a "Harari" in the sense that were he ruled from. An example would be George III of the United Kingdom, whom ruled from London and is called "English" by historians, but was actually ethnically German. I have plan to remove those that say he was Harari shortly. AcidSnow ( talk) 00:07, 26 April 2014 (UTC) Edit 2: Seeing how most of the articles refs were fake citations about him being Harari, I plan to nuke this article with refs and pictures actually about him. AcidSnow ( talk) 01:59, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
zeila the birth place of ahmed gran is in present day somalia and was also inhabited by somalis 500 years ago
afars were part of the kingdom just like the harari's but doesn't make ahmed gran a harari evendo he made harar the capital of Adal
the imam was supported mainly by his own people the somalis
here is an excerpt from the french historian Rene Basset
http://i2.tinypic.com/t0i0s9.jpg
so when did harari start? do you think hararis are a new ethnic group? i suggest you read history by the way ahmad al ghazi was harari not somali or afar. Baboon43 ( talk) 06:24, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
His was actually Half Harari and Half Somali. Harari234 ( talk) 19:25, 24 March 2015
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 14:57, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:10, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
There are two main fractions of the Gadabursi, the Habar Afan and Habar Makadur. The latter making up roughly 90%.
In Page 27 of the Futuh Al Habasha: Conquest of Abyssinia it mentions Ahmed Gerri(Gurey) of the Somali and him being of the Habr Makadi/Maqdi. Underneath the page it states that it was the Habar Makadur of the Gadabursi.
Page 43 mentions that the first tribe to reach the Imam was the Habar Maqadi/Makadi/Maqdi and they encamped above the valley of Harar. When looking at British archives and research. This is the Gadabursi country of the Harar Valley, Haraghe Valley or Harrawwa valley.
The strongest evidence is page 82 of the "Futuh Al-Habasha: The Conquest of Abyssinia" which mentions Husain Musa Bin 'Abd Allah Makida, he is of the Habr Maqdi clan. This strongly fits into the Gadabursi genealogy as Husain Musa Bin 'Abd Allah "Makidor".
The Habar pre-fix is removed when doing the "abtirsi(patrilineage)" just like with the Garhajis etc.
Another thing to note is the that he is mentioned as chieftain and the Marehan leader is mentioned as a chieftain. The Somali word for chieftain is Ugaas, which the Gadabursi Ugaasdom being one of the most famous having been established in the 1600's one century after the Adal wars. The female founder of the Ugaasdom was from the Geri clan and her name was Queen Khadija.
Among the sub-clans of the Mahad 'Ase of the Habr Makador or Makador there is a clan called "reer Hiraab" again this confirms that the Habr Makador partook in the Jihad with the Marehan. Also one of the Ugaases of the Gadabursi was named Hiraab.
Among the southern Mandalug the relatives of the Gadabursi whom have been scattered thanks to the Adal wars. Among them in the south is a sub-clan too called Makador. That sub-clan is named "Ahmed Guray". The lineage of them goes as follows "Reer Ahmed Guray - Muse - Makador" again re-affirming the participation of the Habr Makador in the jihad and "Conquest of Abyssinia or Futuh Al Habasha and Ahmed Gerri or Guray mentioned in the book being of the Habr Makador
Of course the Gadabursi relationship with the clans mentioned in the book and proximity to them (especially the Geri, but also Barsuk, Gorgorah, Hawiye) is evident of them joining the wars and upbringing of the Gadabursi youth for generations on the history of Ahmed Guray and the elders having accounts of the war and which subclan Ahmed Guray belonged to of the Habr Makidor (Mahad 'Asse) has never been forgotten among the Gadabursi. The book just re-affirms and proves it. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
AbwaanRooble (
talk •
contribs)
15:36, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
Magaadi again the name in the book is Magaadi not Makadur and the gudabirsi clan dont have habar name in their lineage and from all Somali historians like DR. SAADIQ EENOW and Prof. Maxamed Cabdi Gaandi who is a known historian from jubbaland says that what you are saying is wrong in his lectors called ISIRKA SOMALIDA even Prof. Cabdalla Cumar Mansuur says that your theory is funny in his lectors Bandhigga Buuggiisa "Taariikhda iyo Luuqadda Bulshada Soomaaliyeed" so all these learned professors and all the books about Ahmed Gurey which say that Magadle or Habar Magadle are Isaaq all of them are wrong and you and your new neverheared about before theory is right and you want us to accept this and like i said before don't twist the name so it suits you (Magadle) not (Makadur) and in the book it is [Magaadi] which of names it closer tob the orignal in the book? AbwaanRooble Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f . Bysomalilander ( talk) 18:46, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
so now read this very carefully ; how in world is
AND WANT ME TO ACCEPT
Please read this very carefully
Bysomalilander. Wikipedia editing isn't an online tutorial class. If you don't know how to properly cite and research, please don't delete other people's work and instead set about finding other avenues in educating yourself on how to.
The secondary source you keep holding on to is from 1987, and is not even a 1/3 about Ahmed Gurey or the Adal Sultanate.
Somalia: nation in search of a state David D. Laitin, Said S. Samatar - Westview Press, 1987
These author's sourced Rene Besset's 1897-1901 French translation of the "Futuh Al Habasa".
The source you keep deleting:
The primary scholarly source on this subject "The Conquest of Abyssinia: Futuh Al Habasa". This wide-spread english translation is from 2005, is almost entirely based on Ahmed Gurey and the Adal Sultanate. It also has what the 1897 French translation didn't have: modern day scholars of East African history and demographics working on it.
"The Conquest of Abyssinia: Futuh Al Habasa" by Shihab Al-Din Ahmad Arabfaqih (Author), Translated by Paul Lester Stenhouse With the annotation suggesting Habr Maqdi is the Habr Makador.
Edited by Richard Pankhurst, a renowned academic scholar of Ethiopia and East Africa.
To meet the academic standards of currency and credibility, a new sentence was made with reference to this most up-to-date verifiable source.
Bysomalilander you not only did you delete the most up-to-date credible source but also other sources (of different segments and topics), spelling/grammar corrections, and transcriptions. You are a vandal because you didn't just edit this source/section, you tried to destroy everything everybody worked on.
-- User:Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f1 ( talk) 22:59, 7 October 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f ( talk • contribs)
And to give you a better link that is not only words here is a lecture by Prof. Cabdalla Cumar Mansuur who is from south Somalia so you don't think that he is Isaaq or from the north Somalia ``Somaliland`` .
In his lecture the Professor is talking about the Somali history and in one point talks about how every clans claims that Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi is from them even the Ethiopians say so with out any proof and then the Professor talks about another leader of Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi by the name Ahmad ibn Ibrahim.
Who is from Habr Maqdi and says by his own words in Somali language there are two main factions in the Isaaq clan Habr Hubushiad and forgets the other faction and says Habr madelah come on people help me which is the faction in the Isaaq clan name and one guy says Magaadleh .
And the the Professor says that's right Magaadleh of isaaq clan which was one of the leaders of Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi and then the Professor says that people confuse between the two men for having the same name and fathers name but that one was Somali Isaaq Ahmad ibn Ibrahim and the other the famous Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi only God knows if is a Somali. this is my translation you will find it between 00:00 to 1:34 minute in the lecture. about what the Professor says in Somali to English Prof. Cabdalla Cumar Mansuur watch on youtube in Somali,so like you can see for your self in Somali language that you know Prof. Cabdalla Cumar Mansuur says that Habr Maqdi is the Habr Magadle of Isaaq. Bysomalilander ( talk) 17:46, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
Bysomalilander for the second time, the primary source, the most current translation, "The Conquest of Abyssinia: Futuh Al Habasa"
by Shihab Al-Din Ahmad Arabfaqih (Author), translated by Paul Lester Stenhouse, and edited by Richard Pankhurst has as
annotation 106:
"Probably the Habr Makkadur, a Somali clan, I.M. Lewis, Peoples of the Horn of Africa, p 25"
What does this mean?
Richard Pankhurst, willingly, picked this particular group and referenced who they were in I.M. Lewis' work when he was perfectly free to choose "Habr Magaadle". Additionally, he and Paul Stenhouse (translator) picked "Habr Makkadur" after going through the original arabic manuscripts and Rene Besset's 1987 french translation. Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f ( talk) 03:25, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
----
to separate your cmt's, the correct way is explained here:
Help:Using_talk_pages#Indentation. Thank you, -
Mlpearc (
open channel)
03:57, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
Bysomalilander Did you even bother looking at the reference "I.M. Lewis, Peoples of the Horn of Africa, p 25"? It's right there. For the third time, the translator worked out Habr Maqdi. Richard Pankhurst made the annotation. My question is, why did he? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f ( talk • contribs) 19:20, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
There is of course the chance that this could be incorrect but the problem is that this is the primary source and no other professional english translation/analysis exists. The previous translation of these manuscripts were made in 1897. Renamed user 156yagz5r48a5f1a1f ( talk) 20:37, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello Bysomalilander even though there is every reason to believe more clans took part in the Conquest of Abyssinia, since part 2 of the authors book was never found, I will not allow propaganda to be spread on the article Ahmed Gran. We can reach a consensus and remove all clans from the page Ahmed Gran or we can keep reverting our edits. - AlaskaLava
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:25, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
This edit by a user which he believes is somehow legitimate and necessary is a retelling of the Ethiopian-Adal conflict that is already thoroughly explained in the well-sourced Invasion of Ethiopia section of the article (which itself is a summary of the larger Ethiopian-Adal War article). The difference is that this time, the contributor has used questionable sources such as this Christian website (Christianity-guide.com) and this other article written by a guy with an Ethiopian name (Agaredech Jemaneh) that's hosted on an Ethiopian website, RealEthiopia.com -- a website which, in its own words:
...was developed with only one goal in mind, to promote Ethiopia as a tourist destination for both international and domestic travellers. RealEthiopia.com is where you discover Ethiopia as it is - the authoritative resource about Ethiopia on the web, covering all aspects of your information need about Ethiopia, whether you are planning to travel to Ethiopia or already live in Ethiopia, you will find engaging and useful content, presented the way you want it.
Here's what RealEthiopia has to say about its content contribution:
The initial content of RealEthiopia.com was developed in effort with external consultants but we also welcome user contributions in the different subjects we cover on RealEthiopia.com, as long as they conform to our content policy, by using our submission form (currently deactivated, please contact us through our contact form for content processing).
In other words, everything is either personally compiled by themselves, or, as in the case of the above article written by one Agaredech Jemaneh, is user-contributed. They don't even require a reference list for verification. All they require is that contributing writers make sure that their work "conforms to RealEthiopia.com's content policy" -- a policy which, incidentally, specificies that RealEthiopia "only allow reviews based on personal experiences."
Moreover, neither Christianity-guide.com nor RealEthiopia.com state where they got their information from since it obviously wasn't the product of any first-hand historical research on their part.
The Wiki editor's latest edit includes this source from a Somali website, which he believes is somehow more reliable although the page clearly states that the article was "sent by" one "Suleiman Nousa Elmi, Noraway" (i.e. it too is user-contributed). The article also does not list any references; in other words, the information here too is unverifiable.
He has also included the highly suspicious claim that Imam Ahmad was decapitated, when sources typically state that it was da Gama who, in fact, was decaptitated, (e.g. "Lake Tana and the Blue Nile: An Abyssinian Quest" by Robert Ernest Cheesman, p.381: "In one of the early battles with Gran's troops de Gama was captured and decapitated...") and often by al-Ghazi himself (e.g. "The Church in Africa: 1450-1950" by Adrian Hastings, p.138: "Da Gama, wounded and captured, was dragged before Gran to behold the heads of 160 Portuguese displayed in front of him before he too was decapitated by Gran himself."). The editor also never cites the exact page number in the source where he got that information from so that users may verify the information for themselves. And per Wiki policies, exceptional claims require exceptional sources.
In short, if the editor wishes to contribute a line or two to the article -- which is on Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi, not the Ethiopian-Adal War -- to the effect that the war perhaps also served as a proxy for the Ottoman and the Portuguese, he should do so in the properly-sourced section of the article where the war is already discussed; namely, the Invasion of Ethiopia section. He should also do so employing unbiased, reliable sources and a neutral point of view, as opposed to relying on Christian, Ethiopian, Somali, or Muslim sources as I've already explained in my edit summary. Causteau ( talk) 05:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
As was the case in many parts of the world of the time, African Christians and Muslims in this horn of African region were getting military and other assistance from external parties. The external states were often motivated by religious, economic and strategic interests. While the Orthodox Ethiopian highlanders received assistance from Portugal, Imam Ahmad and his Muslim forces got manpower and weapon assistance from Arabia and the Turkish Ottoman Empire.
The Ethiopians were forced to ask for help from the Portuguese, who landed at the port of Massawa on February 10, 1541, during the reign of the emperor Gelawdewos. The force was led by Cristóvão da Gama and included 400 musketeers as well as a number of artisans and other non-combatants... According to Abbé Joachim le Grand, Imam Ahmad received 2000 musketeers from Arabia, and artillery and 900 picked men from the Ottomans to assist him.
While Arabia sent thousands of fighters to help the Muslim army of Imam Ahmad invade Christian Ethiopians, the Ottomans provided Imam Ahmad artillery and several hundred soldiers.
The Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, Selim I established Ottoman rule in Egypt, and created a naval presence on the Red Sea. After this Ottoman expansion, a competition started between the Portuguese Empire and the Ottoman Empire to become the dominant power in the region.
RealEthiopia.com was developed with only one goal in mind, promote Ethiopia as a tourist destination for both international and domestic travellers.
Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for fact-checking. Questionable sources include websites and publications that rely heavily on rumors and personal opinions, are promotional in nature, or express views that are widely acknowledged as extremist or pseudoscience.
The primary source for the death of the imam is Miguel de Castanhoso who fought at the last battle and clearly states how a teenage Abyssinian captain followed the imam(while he was running) and killed him and beheaded him. Although it seems he had beheaded him after killing him the captain was a horseman thus the conclusionis that he had stabbed and beheaded the imam. Bin Mulat ( talk) 21:52, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
The Akisho, Gadabuursi, and Leelkase articles each claim that Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi (Ahmed Gurey) was a member of those respective Somali clans. None of these articles cite a reference, though. Was any sort of clan affiliation ever documented? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 04:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
No, it wasn't. It is presumed these confederated large clans (that is the four major ones) that exist now actually came at that time or later. No one knows his true Soomaali clan. Many different clans claim, with absurd assertions. Soomaali March 13, 2006
There's evidence that he was actually Afar (but he could be either), and the quotation has little to do with him, being relevant for the article at Adal instead, so I've removed the information, and added relevant info to Adal. Btw, Futuh didn't apparently didn't even mention his ethnicity at all. — ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk 21:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Ahmed Ibrahim Ghazi was from the Dir clan is an agreed fact amoung Somalis. However, the real dispute that remains is was he a Gadabuursi Dir or Madahweyn Dir(Akisho or Gurgure). Their is a plenty evidence that this Somali hero is from the Gadabursi whose present day homeland is called Awdal (Adal) which is the kingdom Gurey ruled. Futhermore, it is in the Gadabuursi Mandaluug Dir region which the Christian Ethiopians always targeted in the attacks against Ahmed Gurey and today in the Amuud region you will find the ruines of buildings where the ancient Samaroon used to live and it was the hometown of the Somali saint and general Imaam Said Samaroon who was the defender of the western flank of the Somali nation from Amhara intrusions.
Imam Ahmed Gureey could not be from the Darood clan since he lived in the 1500's before even the Yemani ancestor of the Darood(Darood Ibu Ismail Jabarti reached the shores of Somali. Therefore, Gurey was from the Dir Mandaluug or Madahweyn clan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.219.199.169 ( talk • contribs) 13:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Ahmed Amin Nur was from Marehan, and until today his clan called Ina Nuur is part of Marehan clan in Eithopia. On the other hand anyone, who needs proof about Ahmed Guray could get more information in Eithopia, especaily among the Somali normads. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.154.51.128 ( talk • contribs) 02:28, May 22, 2007 (UTC)
I am not Marehan, I am Habir Gidir Hawiiye, but Ahmed Gurey is Marehan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.254.12.146 ( talk) 23:22, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Ahmed Gurey was Marehan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.254.0.147 ( talk) 18:54, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Ahmed is repeatedly distincted from the somalis and the somalis were reported as retreating when the imam was advancing in the battle of shimbta kure also he was in conflict with them at one time where he chased them till they neared the sea. Ahmad Guray is also descrined differently from the imam ahmad in futuh al habasha. So most probably he was a harla or afar of arab ancestry. Bin Mulat ( talk) 13:24, 20 January 2021 (UTC)