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No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:36, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
Afro-Arab → Zanj OR Black People#Arabia – Relisted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 22:43, 12 July 2011 (UTC) Original research , the term Afro-Arabs or Arabs of Africa "عرب أفريقيا" means arab countries in Africa Continent [1] [2] not arabs of sub-sahara origin, we simply use Zanj or "زنج" to refer to sub sahara ancestry -- Prince jasim ali ( talk) 14:56, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
The section List of Afro-Arabs should be replace with a category FuzzyMagma ( talk) 09:46, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
@ Brigade Piron: in order to help other editors to fix the problem you mentioned, could you please explain why you think the article is not neutral ? Thanks in advance, Rsk6400 ( talk) 18:52, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
What is the justification for the existence of this article? The term "Afro-Arab" feels way to Americo-centric and is irrelevant to the actual ethnic, color and "racial" divisions that exist. The term is much too ambiguous outside of an American context, considering that there are literally millions of non-Black Arabs who live in the continent of Africa and have lived there for generations (in the case of Egyptians and Arabized Berbers and perhaps some other groups, they have been there since the dawn of recorded history). If the article refers specifically to "Black Arabs", I believe that is what its title should be, otherwise it makes it sound like its making the racist claim that Arabized Berbers or Egyptians aren't "really African".
But even then, it sounds like too broad a group which is not well-defined, due to the range of skin colors in the Arab world without there necessarily being a clear racial divide, as well as the difficulty of talking of someone who is "of African descent" when there has constantly been movement of people between Africa and the Middle East over the millenia, and there have been dark-skinned people in the Middle East for thousands of years. It's completely uncomparable to groups like African Americans or Europeans of Black African descent. And that's without delving into the complicated relationship between "blackness/Africanness" and "Arabness" in countries like Sudan and Mauritania.
I believe this entire article should be erased, and if there is a need, it would be better to create articles for Black communities or individuals in particular Arab countries and their unique culture and/or history. I would be glad to hear people's opinion about this. -- Zofthej ( talk) 20:22, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
This article should not exist, the logic for why is simple, it’s inherently racist, Afro arab makes it seem like it’s saying black arabs aren’t really as arab as other arabs which is strange and racist ,a Moroccan or Lebanese person for example may have no ancestry from any of the arab tribes that originated in Arabia or even stepped foot in Arabia but Wikipedia doesnt call them white/Caucasian/straight hair-Arabs lol. On the other hand there are Arabs who come from famous and ancient Arab tribes that have “Afro features” and a longer family history of arab culture but this article undermines this. The king of Jordan has a white European non arab mother, should we make an article that says euro-arab? It wouldn’t happen, why? The colorism is showing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8806:2A00:8730:900C:FE61:D5C6:97F7 ( talk) 05:49, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Afro-Arabs article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:36, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
Afro-Arab → Zanj OR Black People#Arabia – Relisted. Vegaswikian ( talk) 22:43, 12 July 2011 (UTC) Original research , the term Afro-Arabs or Arabs of Africa "عرب أفريقيا" means arab countries in Africa Continent [1] [2] not arabs of sub-sahara origin, we simply use Zanj or "زنج" to refer to sub sahara ancestry -- Prince jasim ali ( talk) 14:56, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
The section List of Afro-Arabs should be replace with a category FuzzyMagma ( talk) 09:46, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
@ Brigade Piron: in order to help other editors to fix the problem you mentioned, could you please explain why you think the article is not neutral ? Thanks in advance, Rsk6400 ( talk) 18:52, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
What is the justification for the existence of this article? The term "Afro-Arab" feels way to Americo-centric and is irrelevant to the actual ethnic, color and "racial" divisions that exist. The term is much too ambiguous outside of an American context, considering that there are literally millions of non-Black Arabs who live in the continent of Africa and have lived there for generations (in the case of Egyptians and Arabized Berbers and perhaps some other groups, they have been there since the dawn of recorded history). If the article refers specifically to "Black Arabs", I believe that is what its title should be, otherwise it makes it sound like its making the racist claim that Arabized Berbers or Egyptians aren't "really African".
But even then, it sounds like too broad a group which is not well-defined, due to the range of skin colors in the Arab world without there necessarily being a clear racial divide, as well as the difficulty of talking of someone who is "of African descent" when there has constantly been movement of people between Africa and the Middle East over the millenia, and there have been dark-skinned people in the Middle East for thousands of years. It's completely uncomparable to groups like African Americans or Europeans of Black African descent. And that's without delving into the complicated relationship between "blackness/Africanness" and "Arabness" in countries like Sudan and Mauritania.
I believe this entire article should be erased, and if there is a need, it would be better to create articles for Black communities or individuals in particular Arab countries and their unique culture and/or history. I would be glad to hear people's opinion about this. -- Zofthej ( talk) 20:22, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
This article should not exist, the logic for why is simple, it’s inherently racist, Afro arab makes it seem like it’s saying black arabs aren’t really as arab as other arabs which is strange and racist ,a Moroccan or Lebanese person for example may have no ancestry from any of the arab tribes that originated in Arabia or even stepped foot in Arabia but Wikipedia doesnt call them white/Caucasian/straight hair-Arabs lol. On the other hand there are Arabs who come from famous and ancient Arab tribes that have “Afro features” and a longer family history of arab culture but this article undermines this. The king of Jordan has a white European non arab mother, should we make an article that says euro-arab? It wouldn’t happen, why? The colorism is showing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8806:2A00:8730:900C:FE61:D5C6:97F7 ( talk) 05:49, 28 November 2023 (UTC)