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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 13:34, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
It looks like a good start. I'm working on a todo box for this article. CJ ( talk) 15:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
I've got a bunch of shots of New Orleans, Atlanta, and Tallahassee on my flickr account. Everything is by-sa so take what you need. I've uploaded a couple already. CJ ( talk) 16:21, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Those photos look great! We do need at least one from the south, the article will always be too NYC centric if you let me write most of it :P I don't know which one to choose? I like the sort-of "main street" looking one, since it shows how the built environment can vary from place to place. futurebird ( talk) 16:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Good start!
Surely southern cities, while there weren't many of them, had African American neighborhoods before NY did. Charleston had to have been majority black, probably Savannah, too. Richmond, VA had numerous free blacks and slaves "living out" for hire, as did New Orleans, which probably had the largest population in the South of free blacks before the Civil War. Petersburg, VA, an early industrial city, also was a center for free blacks before the Civil War.
I think there needs to be more emphasis on what positive things also happened in those urban northern neighborhoods - think about the changes - huge numbers of chiefly rural migrants had opportunities for more education for their children that, even if limited, greatly surpassed what they got in the South; they created whole communities with all classes and businesses; African Americans created their own businesses; others got education and started teaching; people did get industrial jobs that allowed many to move into the middle class, buy their own homes and get ahead. The cities also were a vastly different environment; many people regretted losing the close ties of small rural communities.
All good things didn't happen at once, nor did all bad things. Not only segregation and racism were factors in producing the poverty-ridden ghettos. The loss of industry was enormous; tens of thousands of jobs disappeared, with nothing to replace them for a generation or more.
As William Julius Wilson showed in Chicago, desegregation allowed middle and upper middle class families to move to the suburbs, but hollowed out the structure of black neighborhoods. The people who held it together and provided examples for advancement left. That and the disappearance of decent skilled jobs left only the most dysfunctional families in the city when drugs became even more of a problem. Wilson has written extensively about the decline of industrial jobs and its impact on black families, a pattern seen throughout the northern cities, from Chicago to Detroit to Philadelphia to NY to Hartford, CT. While Washington, DC didn't have as much of an industrial base, middle class and upper class blacks left the city there, too. Churches in DC have also become centers for reinvestment and trying to improve inner city neighborhoods, with members who come in from the suburbs.
The jobs disappeared, and not all the people could follow the jobs to the South, in some cases, or train for others. Part of the problem became not enough people - Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia have huge areas that became depopulated, with acres of abandoned housing that became centers of crime.-- Parkwells ( talk) 17:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
This is a really complex topic, because you are dealing with huge population movements against the rise and fall of industrial and urban America, such rapid growth and then decades of decline. Nicholas Lemann wrote that at the height of the Great Migration, 5,000 people a week were arriving in Chicago from the South - getting off the trains and looking for housing and work. The infrastructure, buildings and roads and schools, and economy can't be changed as rapidly as people can move, for whatever reasons.
So much relates to the jobs, that you might have to divide it into decades. The post-WWII years were good for many people; probably the good outweighed the bad, even with the problems, because the availability of jobs helped many.
Urban renewal and highway projects were, in their beginnings, attempts to improve things - in the overly rational approach, they didn't realize how much damage they would do by breaking up neighborhoods, or how long places took to come together as effective neighborhoods.
I think the article on Great Migration notes that whole villages migrated together from the South. Black or any ethnic neighborhoods weren't only a result of segregation, but also of people initially wanting to live near their neighbors or people from the same culture, who would have the same food, the same tastes, the same accents and language, who they would go to church with, etc. Yes, segregation prevented them from easily spreading out when the neighborhoods became overcrowded.
People going into areas as migrants consistently settled near their own people and have continued to do so. Little Italy in NY has been mostly overtaken by Chinatown; parts of South Philly that were Italian are now big Vietnamese and Cambodian neighborhoods.-- Parkwells ( talk) 18:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Maybe it's better just to talk about 20th c. African American neighborhoods, and bring them into the 21st c. Often African Americans went into neighborhoods previously occupied by Irish, Italian or Jewish immigrants - people moved in waves through NY and some cities. The urban northern neighborhoods had their own distinct issues.-- Parkwells ( talk) 20:48, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Is this the right title for this article?
All these other's have shorter names or don't exist yet. And the ones I found are basically just lists of ethnic enclaves like List of Italian-American neighborhoods. Is the title correct? Maybe the organization of the ethnic enclaves needs some work. Guess these articles should link into the Ethnic enclave articles sub articles. Using the American in the titles can help keep these ethnic enclaves American while the ethnic enclaves of other parts of the world can get their own names and articles. There are Chinatowns outside America but those in America can be in the Chinese American neighborhood article. Alatari ( talk) 09:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
This article is handled differently than most all other ethnic enclave articles. Most of the information could be moved to the article on African Americans leaving this a list of neighborhoods like the others. Although the name distinguishes it from little Africa's in other countries unlike the Chinatown article. See my talk in the discussion section. Alatari (talk) 05:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
There's something wrong with your list. Africa is a huge continent and all of the other ethnic enclaves you have described are for countries or religions. The comparable neighborhoods would be Asian American Neighboord, White American Neighborhood etc. Asian American Neighboord, is needlessly general, most of the time it's a China town or Little Korea or something like that. I don't know if little Africa is the correct title for enclaves of recent immigrants to various countries world wide. Shouldn't it be broken down by country or religion or something? I think we might need to consider making an article on White American Neighborhoods, (?) but we'd better work on the White American Culture article first --which is nothing but a problematic stub at present. History in part dictates the organization of these ideas, we can't expect perfect symmetry or we'll end up with absurdity. futurebird ( talk) 16:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I think African American communities are not exactly comparable to the ethnic communities listed in the previous section:
Just some thoughts, Egfrank 18:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Although I do feel uncomfortable singling out our neighborhood for any reason because of the old redlining practices, our close neighborhoods of North St. Louis (the West Walnut Manor area, and also Jennings, Pine Lawn, the ghost town of Kinlock, and East St. Louis plus others) aren't listed. What sources are you using to choose these neighborhoods that are listed? Actually many of the listed towns have no sources showing their predominantly AA status and should be tagged citation needed. Year 2000 census data needs to be quoted in each case. Alatari ( talk) 17:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
The list is totally subjective and in need of editing. I tried to choose "historically significant" neighborhoods and I favored those with slightly longer wikipedia articles. I don't want to end up listing every single neighborhood. There are far too many, but ideal the list would serve as a jumping point for people interested in reading more... I'm fully open to change.
On the other hand, "current majority" population isn't really the point. Historical significance is. futurebird ( talk) 18:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
The first paragraph states AA Neighborhoods effected American culture in general. Not sure who requested the citation but I suppose the influences on dance and music would work. Elvis was recruited to singlike the music coming out of Black neighborhoods. Would an Elvis example be a supporting source? Alatari ( talk) 14:50, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Because of the length and content in the primary article, I think an article entitled List of African American neighborhoods should be developed. A table with significant dates and notes could be created. • Freechild 'sup? 17:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
I was editing the "built environment" section and removed the following from a sentence:
"Although after the Great Migration from the rural South... [retained text] ...there are a growing number of suburban neighborhoods with black majority populations or with a significant population."
I did this because it had nothing to do with the section header. I saved it and pasted it here just in case it should added elsewhere. Huw Powell ( talk) 03:26, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
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Dbueno97. Peer reviewers:
Samone H.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 13:34, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
It looks like a good start. I'm working on a todo box for this article. CJ ( talk) 15:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
I've got a bunch of shots of New Orleans, Atlanta, and Tallahassee on my flickr account. Everything is by-sa so take what you need. I've uploaded a couple already. CJ ( talk) 16:21, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Those photos look great! We do need at least one from the south, the article will always be too NYC centric if you let me write most of it :P I don't know which one to choose? I like the sort-of "main street" looking one, since it shows how the built environment can vary from place to place. futurebird ( talk) 16:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Good start!
Surely southern cities, while there weren't many of them, had African American neighborhoods before NY did. Charleston had to have been majority black, probably Savannah, too. Richmond, VA had numerous free blacks and slaves "living out" for hire, as did New Orleans, which probably had the largest population in the South of free blacks before the Civil War. Petersburg, VA, an early industrial city, also was a center for free blacks before the Civil War.
I think there needs to be more emphasis on what positive things also happened in those urban northern neighborhoods - think about the changes - huge numbers of chiefly rural migrants had opportunities for more education for their children that, even if limited, greatly surpassed what they got in the South; they created whole communities with all classes and businesses; African Americans created their own businesses; others got education and started teaching; people did get industrial jobs that allowed many to move into the middle class, buy their own homes and get ahead. The cities also were a vastly different environment; many people regretted losing the close ties of small rural communities.
All good things didn't happen at once, nor did all bad things. Not only segregation and racism were factors in producing the poverty-ridden ghettos. The loss of industry was enormous; tens of thousands of jobs disappeared, with nothing to replace them for a generation or more.
As William Julius Wilson showed in Chicago, desegregation allowed middle and upper middle class families to move to the suburbs, but hollowed out the structure of black neighborhoods. The people who held it together and provided examples for advancement left. That and the disappearance of decent skilled jobs left only the most dysfunctional families in the city when drugs became even more of a problem. Wilson has written extensively about the decline of industrial jobs and its impact on black families, a pattern seen throughout the northern cities, from Chicago to Detroit to Philadelphia to NY to Hartford, CT. While Washington, DC didn't have as much of an industrial base, middle class and upper class blacks left the city there, too. Churches in DC have also become centers for reinvestment and trying to improve inner city neighborhoods, with members who come in from the suburbs.
The jobs disappeared, and not all the people could follow the jobs to the South, in some cases, or train for others. Part of the problem became not enough people - Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia have huge areas that became depopulated, with acres of abandoned housing that became centers of crime.-- Parkwells ( talk) 17:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
This is a really complex topic, because you are dealing with huge population movements against the rise and fall of industrial and urban America, such rapid growth and then decades of decline. Nicholas Lemann wrote that at the height of the Great Migration, 5,000 people a week were arriving in Chicago from the South - getting off the trains and looking for housing and work. The infrastructure, buildings and roads and schools, and economy can't be changed as rapidly as people can move, for whatever reasons.
So much relates to the jobs, that you might have to divide it into decades. The post-WWII years were good for many people; probably the good outweighed the bad, even with the problems, because the availability of jobs helped many.
Urban renewal and highway projects were, in their beginnings, attempts to improve things - in the overly rational approach, they didn't realize how much damage they would do by breaking up neighborhoods, or how long places took to come together as effective neighborhoods.
I think the article on Great Migration notes that whole villages migrated together from the South. Black or any ethnic neighborhoods weren't only a result of segregation, but also of people initially wanting to live near their neighbors or people from the same culture, who would have the same food, the same tastes, the same accents and language, who they would go to church with, etc. Yes, segregation prevented them from easily spreading out when the neighborhoods became overcrowded.
People going into areas as migrants consistently settled near their own people and have continued to do so. Little Italy in NY has been mostly overtaken by Chinatown; parts of South Philly that were Italian are now big Vietnamese and Cambodian neighborhoods.-- Parkwells ( talk) 18:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Maybe it's better just to talk about 20th c. African American neighborhoods, and bring them into the 21st c. Often African Americans went into neighborhoods previously occupied by Irish, Italian or Jewish immigrants - people moved in waves through NY and some cities. The urban northern neighborhoods had their own distinct issues.-- Parkwells ( talk) 20:48, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Is this the right title for this article?
All these other's have shorter names or don't exist yet. And the ones I found are basically just lists of ethnic enclaves like List of Italian-American neighborhoods. Is the title correct? Maybe the organization of the ethnic enclaves needs some work. Guess these articles should link into the Ethnic enclave articles sub articles. Using the American in the titles can help keep these ethnic enclaves American while the ethnic enclaves of other parts of the world can get their own names and articles. There are Chinatowns outside America but those in America can be in the Chinese American neighborhood article. Alatari ( talk) 09:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
This article is handled differently than most all other ethnic enclave articles. Most of the information could be moved to the article on African Americans leaving this a list of neighborhoods like the others. Although the name distinguishes it from little Africa's in other countries unlike the Chinatown article. See my talk in the discussion section. Alatari (talk) 05:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
There's something wrong with your list. Africa is a huge continent and all of the other ethnic enclaves you have described are for countries or religions. The comparable neighborhoods would be Asian American Neighboord, White American Neighborhood etc. Asian American Neighboord, is needlessly general, most of the time it's a China town or Little Korea or something like that. I don't know if little Africa is the correct title for enclaves of recent immigrants to various countries world wide. Shouldn't it be broken down by country or religion or something? I think we might need to consider making an article on White American Neighborhoods, (?) but we'd better work on the White American Culture article first --which is nothing but a problematic stub at present. History in part dictates the organization of these ideas, we can't expect perfect symmetry or we'll end up with absurdity. futurebird ( talk) 16:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I think African American communities are not exactly comparable to the ethnic communities listed in the previous section:
Just some thoughts, Egfrank 18:21, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Although I do feel uncomfortable singling out our neighborhood for any reason because of the old redlining practices, our close neighborhoods of North St. Louis (the West Walnut Manor area, and also Jennings, Pine Lawn, the ghost town of Kinlock, and East St. Louis plus others) aren't listed. What sources are you using to choose these neighborhoods that are listed? Actually many of the listed towns have no sources showing their predominantly AA status and should be tagged citation needed. Year 2000 census data needs to be quoted in each case. Alatari ( talk) 17:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
The list is totally subjective and in need of editing. I tried to choose "historically significant" neighborhoods and I favored those with slightly longer wikipedia articles. I don't want to end up listing every single neighborhood. There are far too many, but ideal the list would serve as a jumping point for people interested in reading more... I'm fully open to change.
On the other hand, "current majority" population isn't really the point. Historical significance is. futurebird ( talk) 18:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
The first paragraph states AA Neighborhoods effected American culture in general. Not sure who requested the citation but I suppose the influences on dance and music would work. Elvis was recruited to singlike the music coming out of Black neighborhoods. Would an Elvis example be a supporting source? Alatari ( talk) 14:50, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Because of the length and content in the primary article, I think an article entitled List of African American neighborhoods should be developed. A table with significant dates and notes could be created. • Freechild 'sup? 17:35, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
I was editing the "built environment" section and removed the following from a sentence:
"Although after the Great Migration from the rural South... [retained text] ...there are a growing number of suburban neighborhoods with black majority populations or with a significant population."
I did this because it had nothing to do with the section header. I saved it and pasted it here just in case it should added elsewhere. Huw Powell ( talk) 03:26, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on African-American neighborhood. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:08, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:47, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:African-American gospel which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 23:19, 18 February 2019 (UTC)