This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Advent article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
|
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Morozco12.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 16:54, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I said that I was going to make that red link on Rorate Mass - which is definitely worth a little article - into a blue one. However, seems I can't. Fine. I'll leave the link because I do think someone else should.-- 2.236.198.248 ( talk) 00:16, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
An anon has objected to both the whole phrase and the combination of terms. The term is frequently used in relation to advent. It's also used alone. Please explain the objection in light of that. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 14:18, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Advent. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:56, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
Why the video of an Advent labyrinth was removed?
-- Urmelbeauftragter 11:07, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
I'm sorry. You lost me when you went to "sugar-coated heresy". That's clearly WP:SYNTH at best and WP:OR at worst. I reread the source you provided and I did not come away with what you are coming away with. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 07:44, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
The reason given was clear: a five-year old tradition did not belong in a folk traditions section. I restored it, made a copy edit and changed the heading. It would be better to have a general overview rather than a single incident, but I will have to hold off for a while on making that change. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 22:52, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
Do we really need the section at all? Right now, it starts giving as the dates for 2015. Relevance?? - If we keep it, can we at least put the next year first. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 09:35, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Advent. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:56, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
I notice that the date format is day Month year, which is common in Britain and commonwealth nations, not the United States, but the spelling favours American English (notice "color" and others). I propose to harmonize the two by changing the spelling to international English, unless someone objects. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 21:01, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
No explanation about the etymology here. Advent, from old French. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.91.51.235 ( talk) 11:29, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
from Latin adventus, from advenīre, from ad- to + venīre to come. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 16:09, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
In addition to the four-Sunday Advent common in the Westrrn churches, the 6-Sunday Advent of some oldr rites (e.g. Mozarabic), and the 40-day Nativity Fast or Lesser Lent common in Eastern churches, there is also an ancient 7-Sunday Advent that is gaining renewed popularity in some (particularly Anglican/Episcopalian) circles. When I have a functional computer at my disposal instead of just this dumb smartphone, I'll work it in if no one beats me to the punch. -- Haruo ( talk) 16:47, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, I regard the recent change of the structure of the introduction [3] as rather unfortunate. In any case, this sentence: "Advent begins on either the fourth or sixth Sunday before Christmas and ends on Christmas Eve." A a reader who is not already familiar with the difffent rites can not have an idea from what this Sunday-thing depends. Could you even choose? (Of course, the answer is no.)
The most recent change of the structure splits information which belongs together. If there is no objection, I'd rather return to the previous introduction. For now I removed the sentence in question, there are too many ifs and buts. (for example "on Christmas Eve" is not entirely correct, at least in the Roman rite it is "before the first Vespers of Christmas", whereas at least the morning belongs to Advent)-- Medusahead ( talk) 10:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
The Christmas and holiday season article is about secular phenomena related to Christmas, and Advent is not "celebrated" or "observed" by the secular world except as a pseudo-Christmas. While it is nice to inform them about the wider festivities in the world, readers here should not be confused about the character of Advent as a liturgical season. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elizium23 ( talk • contribs) 20:56, February 7, 2021 (UTC)
The first line of the Advent page says, "Advent is a season of the liturgical year observed in most Christian denominations", this is wrong, it is observed in SOMEItalic text Christian denominations. I know people in most if not all Protestant denominations, and have sat in those churches, I have never heard of a Protestant denomination that observed Advent. That is not to say Protestants in other parts of the country don't, just that none in this region do. When that sentence says liturgical, the only place I have heard that term is in some of the Catholic offshoot denominations. But I have never been to a Catholic church so I don't know if they use it or not.
<ref>Personal Experience<ref> Who needs a book when you basically live in churches or at least spend more time there than at home.
2600:1700:4D81:4030:90D7:44E0:13C:B44B ( talk) 02:19, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
After reading more of the "Edits", I have two things to say, first of all the term ""Mother god weaves the web of creation." " I pure heresy. to half the Christians in the world. God is male, there is only one God, therefore there is no goddess, or Mother god.
Also throughout this article, it refers to "all Christians", when it should say "Catholics", because there is a big difference between Catholics and Protestants. My original correction was just to clear up a misunderstanding so that non-Christians did not get the wrong idea. This correction however, I really want to leave scripture to prove my point, but I won't, I'm leaving firsts.
Also, Henry Ford put headlights on his car before Chevrolet even started making cars, does that mean that Chevrolet, can't use or talk about headlights, no, and it doesn't matter where the candle labyrinth started, whoever used it can say they used it and why, some people need to get a life, and stop trying to keep other people from enjoying stuff. I have no idea what a candle labyrinth is, so I have no guess if it can even be Christian, or if it's pagan beginnings (if that's the case) prevent the church from using it. Except the Bible says 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. In other words, anything used by any false religion should not be used in Christianity, especially if it's use was particularly bad, or if the average non-Christian sees it and thinks the church is trying to be the false religion. If whatever it is can not pass the 1 Thess. 5:22 test, do you really want your church doing it? If it does pass the test, then do it. But if the pagans which are led by satan are fighting to keep it, you probably want to let them have it. If it's not of God, it's of satan, so yes the pagans are satanic, even though they don't realize that is who they are worshipping, because it's not God, there's only one other option.
```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:4D81:4030:90D7:44E0:13C:B44B ( talk) 02:55, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
Though blue being part of the Sarum Use is often cited, that has been contested, I think convincingly, for example, here: https://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2013/11/25/sarum-blue-the-great-untruth/ I'm wondering if anyone has citations with evidence for Sarum Blue, or if the controversy should be noted. Doublemodal ( talk) 01:24, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Under "Dates", the following text on some "non-Roman" rites is given:
In the Ambrosian Rite and the Mozarabic Rite of the Catholic Church, Advent begins on the sixth Sunday before Christmas, the Sunday after St. Martin's Day (11 November).
However, these two qualifications do not fit with each other. This year, 2023 C.E., "the sixth Sunday before Christmas" would give Sunday, 19 November as their "First Sunday in Advent", but "the Sunday after St. Martin's Day (11 November)" would give Sunday, 12 November instead. This "problem" will occur any year when 11 November is a Saturday. If someone does know how this (apparent?) contradiction can be resolved, please make the appropriate changes to the text. /Erik Ljungstrand (Sweden) 130.241.158.202 ( talk) 10:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Advent article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
|
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Morozco12.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 16:54, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I said that I was going to make that red link on Rorate Mass - which is definitely worth a little article - into a blue one. However, seems I can't. Fine. I'll leave the link because I do think someone else should.-- 2.236.198.248 ( talk) 00:16, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
An anon has objected to both the whole phrase and the combination of terms. The term is frequently used in relation to advent. It's also used alone. Please explain the objection in light of that. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 14:18, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Advent. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:56, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
Why the video of an Advent labyrinth was removed?
-- Urmelbeauftragter 11:07, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
I'm sorry. You lost me when you went to "sugar-coated heresy". That's clearly WP:SYNTH at best and WP:OR at worst. I reread the source you provided and I did not come away with what you are coming away with. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 07:44, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
The reason given was clear: a five-year old tradition did not belong in a folk traditions section. I restored it, made a copy edit and changed the heading. It would be better to have a general overview rather than a single incident, but I will have to hold off for a while on making that change. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 22:52, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
Do we really need the section at all? Right now, it starts giving as the dates for 2015. Relevance?? - If we keep it, can we at least put the next year first. -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 09:35, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Advent. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:56, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
I notice that the date format is day Month year, which is common in Britain and commonwealth nations, not the United States, but the spelling favours American English (notice "color" and others). I propose to harmonize the two by changing the spelling to international English, unless someone objects. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 21:01, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
No explanation about the etymology here. Advent, from old French. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.91.51.235 ( talk) 11:29, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
from Latin adventus, from advenīre, from ad- to + venīre to come. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 16:09, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
In addition to the four-Sunday Advent common in the Westrrn churches, the 6-Sunday Advent of some oldr rites (e.g. Mozarabic), and the 40-day Nativity Fast or Lesser Lent common in Eastern churches, there is also an ancient 7-Sunday Advent that is gaining renewed popularity in some (particularly Anglican/Episcopalian) circles. When I have a functional computer at my disposal instead of just this dumb smartphone, I'll work it in if no one beats me to the punch. -- Haruo ( talk) 16:47, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Sorry, I regard the recent change of the structure of the introduction [3] as rather unfortunate. In any case, this sentence: "Advent begins on either the fourth or sixth Sunday before Christmas and ends on Christmas Eve." A a reader who is not already familiar with the difffent rites can not have an idea from what this Sunday-thing depends. Could you even choose? (Of course, the answer is no.)
The most recent change of the structure splits information which belongs together. If there is no objection, I'd rather return to the previous introduction. For now I removed the sentence in question, there are too many ifs and buts. (for example "on Christmas Eve" is not entirely correct, at least in the Roman rite it is "before the first Vespers of Christmas", whereas at least the morning belongs to Advent)-- Medusahead ( talk) 10:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
The Christmas and holiday season article is about secular phenomena related to Christmas, and Advent is not "celebrated" or "observed" by the secular world except as a pseudo-Christmas. While it is nice to inform them about the wider festivities in the world, readers here should not be confused about the character of Advent as a liturgical season. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elizium23 ( talk • contribs) 20:56, February 7, 2021 (UTC)
The first line of the Advent page says, "Advent is a season of the liturgical year observed in most Christian denominations", this is wrong, it is observed in SOMEItalic text Christian denominations. I know people in most if not all Protestant denominations, and have sat in those churches, I have never heard of a Protestant denomination that observed Advent. That is not to say Protestants in other parts of the country don't, just that none in this region do. When that sentence says liturgical, the only place I have heard that term is in some of the Catholic offshoot denominations. But I have never been to a Catholic church so I don't know if they use it or not.
<ref>Personal Experience<ref> Who needs a book when you basically live in churches or at least spend more time there than at home.
2600:1700:4D81:4030:90D7:44E0:13C:B44B ( talk) 02:19, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
After reading more of the "Edits", I have two things to say, first of all the term ""Mother god weaves the web of creation." " I pure heresy. to half the Christians in the world. God is male, there is only one God, therefore there is no goddess, or Mother god.
Also throughout this article, it refers to "all Christians", when it should say "Catholics", because there is a big difference between Catholics and Protestants. My original correction was just to clear up a misunderstanding so that non-Christians did not get the wrong idea. This correction however, I really want to leave scripture to prove my point, but I won't, I'm leaving firsts.
Also, Henry Ford put headlights on his car before Chevrolet even started making cars, does that mean that Chevrolet, can't use or talk about headlights, no, and it doesn't matter where the candle labyrinth started, whoever used it can say they used it and why, some people need to get a life, and stop trying to keep other people from enjoying stuff. I have no idea what a candle labyrinth is, so I have no guess if it can even be Christian, or if it's pagan beginnings (if that's the case) prevent the church from using it. Except the Bible says 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. In other words, anything used by any false religion should not be used in Christianity, especially if it's use was particularly bad, or if the average non-Christian sees it and thinks the church is trying to be the false religion. If whatever it is can not pass the 1 Thess. 5:22 test, do you really want your church doing it? If it does pass the test, then do it. But if the pagans which are led by satan are fighting to keep it, you probably want to let them have it. If it's not of God, it's of satan, so yes the pagans are satanic, even though they don't realize that is who they are worshipping, because it's not God, there's only one other option.
```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:4D81:4030:90D7:44E0:13C:B44B ( talk) 02:55, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
Though blue being part of the Sarum Use is often cited, that has been contested, I think convincingly, for example, here: https://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2013/11/25/sarum-blue-the-great-untruth/ I'm wondering if anyone has citations with evidence for Sarum Blue, or if the controversy should be noted. Doublemodal ( talk) 01:24, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Under "Dates", the following text on some "non-Roman" rites is given:
In the Ambrosian Rite and the Mozarabic Rite of the Catholic Church, Advent begins on the sixth Sunday before Christmas, the Sunday after St. Martin's Day (11 November).
However, these two qualifications do not fit with each other. This year, 2023 C.E., "the sixth Sunday before Christmas" would give Sunday, 19 November as their "First Sunday in Advent", but "the Sunday after St. Martin's Day (11 November)" would give Sunday, 12 November instead. This "problem" will occur any year when 11 November is a Saturday. If someone does know how this (apparent?) contradiction can be resolved, please make the appropriate changes to the text. /Erik Ljungstrand (Sweden) 130.241.158.202 ( talk) 10:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)