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This article is filled with citations that can are verifiable; I propose to remove its NPOV tag. Freechild 14:27, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
The claim that ADHD is made up is totally ludicrous, I am removing it.
I have issue with the statement, "Adultism is ostensibly caused by fear of children and youth.[1]"
Perhaps some explanation of how "Adultism" is present in the given phrases would be appropriate. It appears as though Adultism is made to be a negative behavior; yet some of these phrases appear (to me) to be perfectly acceptable.
I agree. However, it should be just fixed, rather than being deleted entirely (as FlareNUKE did). I have reverted the deletion of that section, and I am currently writing explanations of why said phrases are adultist. Rory096 1:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I have the deleted the "Understanding Adultism" link becuase the cookies it sent to my computer had viruses on it.- RainyDayCrow
_ _ It seems implausible & in any case unverifiable to attribute the term to a presumably amorphous "grassroots"
co-counseling while avoiding reference to hierarchical orgs:
Re-evaluation Counseling(IIRC) coiners of "co-counseling", & its presumed service-mark-claimants,
Co-Counselling International.
_ _ It is also a distortion to talk as if whoever coined the term is responsible for the subject of this article, which is the concept the article creator chose to refer to by this term. The chances are excellent that
Adultism should be a redirect to another article, after this one is merged into it. Determining what that article is should be on the agenda here until there is a consensus that there is no suitable article already in existence.
--
Jerzy•
t 14:04, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
I have heard and used the term on many occasions over the past few years, none of which through co-counseling. I have heard it in particular in discussions about unschooling, democratic schools, and Sudbury model schools. None of these have any relation to co-counseling, so even if the word originated there, it is certainly not being used exclusively by co-counselors any more.
Unless someone can present another article dealing more suitably with this subject, I would be against merging this article into another, as there is a growing awareness of the concept of adultism. The topic deserves to be heard. Aaronwinborn 19:20, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Why is there just the claim that adultism is the cause of all oppression(!) and no cite or explanation?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.250.221.131 ( talk • contribs) 18:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
As much as I am anti-adultist, I don't think that the adult side of the situation seems to be represented enough. This article is very comprehensive to how adultist views can be dismissed, I haven't found an "adultist rebuttal" in the article. Once I see one, I will re-evaluate my opinion. — MESSEDROCKER ( talk) 17:53, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, it could be the wording, but the article seems to me like a child's rant about his parents... Specially the paragraph against those MADD. I don't know who these mothers are, and don't care (they do no harm in Spain), but the paragraph just throws assertions about their (incorrect and silly) views and methods... Which asks for the replica: "and who says that?". Let's remember this is an encyclopaedia. -- euyyn 20:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it just my computer, or has this article disappeared? I'm getting a "This article doesn't exsist..." page when it's entered or searched for. The discussion and history pages are still there, but no article. I'm not exactly a wikipedia expert, so I don't know. Cheers, My baloney 11:21, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Disconcerting. It is gone, without any explanation or history. Freechild 13:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I had to remove some vandalism in the first paragraph, which read: "Those with the common sense of a hamster often do not view adultism as a negative; many 10-year olds are in fact unsuited to fly fighter jets." Purple Is Pretty 00:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
How is that a form of institutionalized adultism? -- Armaetin 02:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
This article seems to assume that adultism is a) an extant phenomenon; b) an undesirable one. Any claims that both of these assumptions are indisputably the views of a large majority need to be supported by a preponderance of evidence. Even then, though, the racism article doesn't take the same negative tone as this one does. As such, I've placed the dreaded {{ NPOV}} tag on this article. Powers T 18:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I added Mothers Against Drunk Driving in the "see also" section, and it was immediately removed. I think a link to the MADD article should be in that section, as MADD is possibly the largest and most influential adultist orgainzation in North America. MADD's agenda isn't one against drunk driving, but one of promoting hatred and prejudice against young people, therefore I think it should be included in that section. 96.21.185.101 ( talk) 02:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
The ultimate act of adultism is states and countries define when is an adult an "adult", such as 18 in the United States (a majority of states have it in their constitutions) and the drinking age remains at 21 for most of the US. The state of California seems to hold the concept of adult age in a strict way, despite how socially liberal that state can be on no-fault divorce (esp. the feminists and women's rights groups support this) in the 1960's and age discrimination (over age 50) laws that strictly prohibit workplace discrimination on older adults or seniors. + 71.102.2.206 ( talk) 20:06, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I fail to see how "Wizarding World" directly relates to "Literature" beneath the Cultural Adultism header as per the article's topic; I've changed the link so it redirects to "Childrens Literature", rather than "Wizarding World". 76.211.140.40 ( talk) 03:30, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm not too sure about that lede sentence:
It's an -ism, so it wouldn't be "the power". -ism is used in a lot of ways (see Wiktionary def), but here I think here it's used in the sense of ideology or doctrine, see Wiktionary def #6. (Alterntively an "action or process" (wikt #1) but that seems wrong -- "He performed adultism" seems unlikely (although "He suffered from adultism" (in the sense of being the victim of acts rather than having a disease) or "He performed an act of adultism" sound OK, so this is possibly arguable.) It could also mean a predisposition, which can be related to holding a doctrine or not, so it could mean "...predisposition to favor adults" or "...predisposition to act like an adult" or "...desire to be an adult" and any number of things, but that's not what this article is about so if those are alternate definitions we don't need to worry about that. But it seems that it should be something like one of these two (or possibly combine them):
But this is pretty broad. I'd say that basically no one would, in belief or action, purposely fail to control a young child in certain situations, say when she's sticking a metal object into an electrical socket, so 100% of adults would be adultists in this sense, which renders the term meaningless. What I think is being talked about is inordinate or inappropriate control, giving us
But now we're getting into la-la land we're I'm just speculating on what the term might mean. So it's time to look at source. Doing that, I right away see (from Wikipedia mirrors) that this is a new lede, cut down quite a bit from a recent version. So I don't want to move forward unless this is a stable lede... I'm just saying it needs work, at least from the current version. Herostratus ( talk) 02:09, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
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I have gone through all the reference sources that are accessible. These are some of the problems I have encountered. Would someone like to verify whether my findings are accurate or not?
Source #8 leads to a link that does not contain the cited quote
Source #9 does not discuss fear of children as the article claims
Source #18 does not contain the terms mentioned
Source #20 seems like a poorly-written blog post
Source #21 does not lead to the referenced article/quote
Source #38 is correct but the Wikipedia article should use quotation marks given that the statement was taken directly from the source
Source #39 does not lead to the referenced article/quote
Source #56 links to the entire website as opposed to the fact(s) stated in the article
Harry.chanp ( talk) 02:17, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
For an article with around thirteen distinct sections, the lead is quite lacking with only two sentences. A reader would likely view the lead section and assume the rest of the article has nothing of value to read. I would suggest adding brief descriptions of the major points for the article. Swankbanana ( talk) 16:53, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
At the end of this paragraph is a single lonely quotation mark. Or at least I can't find where the quotation is supposed to begin, if there even is one. The reference given is to a book I don't have easy access to, so I'm hoping someone else can solve the mystery: Is there a quotation here, and if so, where does it begin? TooManyFingers ( talk) 15:58, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Reading the description given by DuBois, it seems clear that he is discussing more or less the same issue Flasher wrote about seventy-five years later.
But it sounds to me as if the French sources from the 1920s and 1930s are using the word in a completely different way, to describe children whose personalities and actions seem excessively or peculiarly adult, such as the examples given of children committing crimes. Shouldn't it be made clearer that those French sources are merely using the same word but are talking about something completely different? TooManyFingers ( talk) 17:13, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 September 2023 and 11 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tsuki2023 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Tsuki2023 ( talk) 21:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
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This article is filled with citations that can are verifiable; I propose to remove its NPOV tag. Freechild 14:27, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
The claim that ADHD is made up is totally ludicrous, I am removing it.
I have issue with the statement, "Adultism is ostensibly caused by fear of children and youth.[1]"
Perhaps some explanation of how "Adultism" is present in the given phrases would be appropriate. It appears as though Adultism is made to be a negative behavior; yet some of these phrases appear (to me) to be perfectly acceptable.
I agree. However, it should be just fixed, rather than being deleted entirely (as FlareNUKE did). I have reverted the deletion of that section, and I am currently writing explanations of why said phrases are adultist. Rory096 1:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I have the deleted the "Understanding Adultism" link becuase the cookies it sent to my computer had viruses on it.- RainyDayCrow
_ _ It seems implausible & in any case unverifiable to attribute the term to a presumably amorphous "grassroots"
co-counseling while avoiding reference to hierarchical orgs:
Re-evaluation Counseling(IIRC) coiners of "co-counseling", & its presumed service-mark-claimants,
Co-Counselling International.
_ _ It is also a distortion to talk as if whoever coined the term is responsible for the subject of this article, which is the concept the article creator chose to refer to by this term. The chances are excellent that
Adultism should be a redirect to another article, after this one is merged into it. Determining what that article is should be on the agenda here until there is a consensus that there is no suitable article already in existence.
--
Jerzy•
t 14:04, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
I have heard and used the term on many occasions over the past few years, none of which through co-counseling. I have heard it in particular in discussions about unschooling, democratic schools, and Sudbury model schools. None of these have any relation to co-counseling, so even if the word originated there, it is certainly not being used exclusively by co-counselors any more.
Unless someone can present another article dealing more suitably with this subject, I would be against merging this article into another, as there is a growing awareness of the concept of adultism. The topic deserves to be heard. Aaronwinborn 19:20, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Why is there just the claim that adultism is the cause of all oppression(!) and no cite or explanation?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.250.221.131 ( talk • contribs) 18:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
As much as I am anti-adultist, I don't think that the adult side of the situation seems to be represented enough. This article is very comprehensive to how adultist views can be dismissed, I haven't found an "adultist rebuttal" in the article. Once I see one, I will re-evaluate my opinion. — MESSEDROCKER ( talk) 17:53, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, it could be the wording, but the article seems to me like a child's rant about his parents... Specially the paragraph against those MADD. I don't know who these mothers are, and don't care (they do no harm in Spain), but the paragraph just throws assertions about their (incorrect and silly) views and methods... Which asks for the replica: "and who says that?". Let's remember this is an encyclopaedia. -- euyyn 20:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Is it just my computer, or has this article disappeared? I'm getting a "This article doesn't exsist..." page when it's entered or searched for. The discussion and history pages are still there, but no article. I'm not exactly a wikipedia expert, so I don't know. Cheers, My baloney 11:21, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Disconcerting. It is gone, without any explanation or history. Freechild 13:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I had to remove some vandalism in the first paragraph, which read: "Those with the common sense of a hamster often do not view adultism as a negative; many 10-year olds are in fact unsuited to fly fighter jets." Purple Is Pretty 00:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
How is that a form of institutionalized adultism? -- Armaetin 02:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
This article seems to assume that adultism is a) an extant phenomenon; b) an undesirable one. Any claims that both of these assumptions are indisputably the views of a large majority need to be supported by a preponderance of evidence. Even then, though, the racism article doesn't take the same negative tone as this one does. As such, I've placed the dreaded {{ NPOV}} tag on this article. Powers T 18:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I added Mothers Against Drunk Driving in the "see also" section, and it was immediately removed. I think a link to the MADD article should be in that section, as MADD is possibly the largest and most influential adultist orgainzation in North America. MADD's agenda isn't one against drunk driving, but one of promoting hatred and prejudice against young people, therefore I think it should be included in that section. 96.21.185.101 ( talk) 02:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
The ultimate act of adultism is states and countries define when is an adult an "adult", such as 18 in the United States (a majority of states have it in their constitutions) and the drinking age remains at 21 for most of the US. The state of California seems to hold the concept of adult age in a strict way, despite how socially liberal that state can be on no-fault divorce (esp. the feminists and women's rights groups support this) in the 1960's and age discrimination (over age 50) laws that strictly prohibit workplace discrimination on older adults or seniors. + 71.102.2.206 ( talk) 20:06, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I fail to see how "Wizarding World" directly relates to "Literature" beneath the Cultural Adultism header as per the article's topic; I've changed the link so it redirects to "Childrens Literature", rather than "Wizarding World". 76.211.140.40 ( talk) 03:30, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm not too sure about that lede sentence:
It's an -ism, so it wouldn't be "the power". -ism is used in a lot of ways (see Wiktionary def), but here I think here it's used in the sense of ideology or doctrine, see Wiktionary def #6. (Alterntively an "action or process" (wikt #1) but that seems wrong -- "He performed adultism" seems unlikely (although "He suffered from adultism" (in the sense of being the victim of acts rather than having a disease) or "He performed an act of adultism" sound OK, so this is possibly arguable.) It could also mean a predisposition, which can be related to holding a doctrine or not, so it could mean "...predisposition to favor adults" or "...predisposition to act like an adult" or "...desire to be an adult" and any number of things, but that's not what this article is about so if those are alternate definitions we don't need to worry about that. But it seems that it should be something like one of these two (or possibly combine them):
But this is pretty broad. I'd say that basically no one would, in belief or action, purposely fail to control a young child in certain situations, say when she's sticking a metal object into an electrical socket, so 100% of adults would be adultists in this sense, which renders the term meaningless. What I think is being talked about is inordinate or inappropriate control, giving us
But now we're getting into la-la land we're I'm just speculating on what the term might mean. So it's time to look at source. Doing that, I right away see (from Wikipedia mirrors) that this is a new lede, cut down quite a bit from a recent version. So I don't want to move forward unless this is a stable lede... I'm just saying it needs work, at least from the current version. Herostratus ( talk) 02:09, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
References
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I have gone through all the reference sources that are accessible. These are some of the problems I have encountered. Would someone like to verify whether my findings are accurate or not?
Source #8 leads to a link that does not contain the cited quote
Source #9 does not discuss fear of children as the article claims
Source #18 does not contain the terms mentioned
Source #20 seems like a poorly-written blog post
Source #21 does not lead to the referenced article/quote
Source #38 is correct but the Wikipedia article should use quotation marks given that the statement was taken directly from the source
Source #39 does not lead to the referenced article/quote
Source #56 links to the entire website as opposed to the fact(s) stated in the article
Harry.chanp ( talk) 02:17, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
For an article with around thirteen distinct sections, the lead is quite lacking with only two sentences. A reader would likely view the lead section and assume the rest of the article has nothing of value to read. I would suggest adding brief descriptions of the major points for the article. Swankbanana ( talk) 16:53, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
At the end of this paragraph is a single lonely quotation mark. Or at least I can't find where the quotation is supposed to begin, if there even is one. The reference given is to a book I don't have easy access to, so I'm hoping someone else can solve the mystery: Is there a quotation here, and if so, where does it begin? TooManyFingers ( talk) 15:58, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Reading the description given by DuBois, it seems clear that he is discussing more or less the same issue Flasher wrote about seventy-five years later.
But it sounds to me as if the French sources from the 1920s and 1930s are using the word in a completely different way, to describe children whose personalities and actions seem excessively or peculiarly adult, such as the examples given of children committing crimes. Shouldn't it be made clearer that those French sources are merely using the same word but are talking about something completely different? TooManyFingers ( talk) 17:13, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 September 2023 and 11 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tsuki2023 ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Tsuki2023 ( talk) 21:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)