Where are the latest developments in the Ajaria conflict? ChrisM, April 27, 2004
Very funny description of the latest developments. It doesn't describe the basic conflict. The oppositional movement is called supporters of Saakashvili. Igor Ivanov's talks with Abashidze are not mentioned at all. Very funny. That's world history Walt Disney style. ChrisM, May 10, 2004
The flag of Adjara was not the official one, but only the flag of Aslan Abashidze's political party. The government of post-Aslan Adjara adopted a new flag in 2004.
Does somebody know what is the current religious composition of Ajaria? Is there more Muslims or Christians? Could somebody to write this in the article? User:PANONIAN
Edits made by 193.140.108.152 seem to be wandalism!!!
Mcx327 a couple days ago removed "forcibly" in the sentence saying that the Ajarians were forcibly Islamized during the Ottoman rule. Did they convert by choice, or did they have no choice? -- Hottentot
Typically under Islamic Sharia law, forcible conversion is not allowed. But as you know, these rules might have been violated. If they converted over several centuries consider this voluntary, if over one year or decade this is probably forcible conversion. Also, I do not know the current Musim vs Christian mix, I presume current Georgian government does not want to emphasize division of Georgians. If this is so, why Ajarian flag has a cross? Abdulnr 12:30, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
There are several reasons to move the page to Adjara.
Google:
Google News:
The government of the region uses the name "Adjara" only [1]. Kober 17:30, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
As Adjarians, we adopt Islam voluntarily!
Now in adjara, there is a Christianization through psychological and economic press. Adjara is an autonomous republic because of Islam. So we don't accept the new flag. And we want to perform Adhan at the mosque.
These are realities of Adjara and Adjarians.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
The last census conducted in Georgia was in 2002 and only estimates could be made for the two regions not controlled by the central government of Georgia ( Abkhazia and South Ossetia). 2002 census included Adjaria.
In 2002, population figures were;
4,371,500 (Georgian controlled) + 230,000 (Abkhazia + South Ossetia) = 4,601,000
Experts' estimates for 2005 population figures are;
4,289,100 (Georgian controlled) + 227,000 (Abkhazia + South Ossetia) = 4,516,000
Statistical Yearbook of Georgia, 2005: Population
The figure given by Adjarastat for the total population of Georgia proper is 4,371,535 which corresponds to the 2002 census. Therefore, it is wrong to state that 376,016 is the 2005 population of Adjaria. It is the 2002 population. Otherwise, why choose the 2002 population for the whole of Georgia? Experts' estimates for 2005 would have been chosen instead. Indeed, for a further example, 121,800 is the 2002 population given for the city of Batumi by the Georgian central agency of statistics, which is also taken over by Adjarastat. But they are and they remain the 2002 figures. Which should be indicated in this article.
Secondly, 2002 census did register ethnicity, but not religion. And in ethnicity terms, all Adjarians were counted as Georgians. One can easily draw a conclusion between the number for the, for example, ethnic Azerbaijani population in Georgia and the corresponding number of Muslims. But Adjarian Muslims have not been put into figures on the basis of an actual count. They are estimates. Could anyone confirm this?
-- Cretanforever 16:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
According to the BBC "Nowadays about half the population professes the Islamic faith" as opposed to which is quite different to the statement in the article that a "significant number of Ajarians remain Sunni Muslims":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/country_profiles/3520322.stm#facts
The Georgian User Kober who argues about the religous composition of Adjara and accuses other users of being non Adjarians seems to have a biased POV regarding this article.
A quoatation from www.geotimes.ge/forum:
I HAVE ENOUGH INFO ABOUT THE OBLIGATIONS APPLIED ON MUSLIM GEORGIANS TO CHANGE THEIR RELIGION. IMEDI AND RUSTAVI-2 TV STATIONS SHOWED THE CEREMONIES OF CHRISTIANIZATION OF MUSLIM GEORGIANS IN ACH'ARA (MACHAKHELA GORGE). MR: ZURAB ZHVANIA JOINED THE LAST CEREMONY IN MACHAKHELA. I REMEMBER THAT HIS MOTHER IS ARMENIAN. THE ONLIEST CAUSE OF AUTONOMY OF ACH'ARA IS ITS RELIGIONAL DIFFERENCE. I DO NOT WANT ACH'ARA TO BE SEPERATED FROM GEORGIA BUT OUR CHRISTIAN SIBLINGS MUST RESPECT TO THEIR MUSLIM GEORGIAN SIBLINGS' BELIEVES. ALSO INTERESTING SCENES RECORDED BY TRT (TURKEY'S OFFICIAL TV STATION) FOR ITS PROGRAM 'SINIRLAR ARASINDA' (meaning: beyond the boundaries). THE CRISTIANIZATION CAMPAIGN IN GEORGIA ON MUSLIM GEORGIANS BOTH IN ACH'ARA AND SAINGILO PUTS US INTO VERY HARD POSITION IN TURKEY'S PUBLIC VIEW. DO NOT THINK THAT MUSLIM GEORGIANS IN TURKEY ARE IN FULL RELIGIONAL COMFORT, BUT IF MUSLIM GEORGIANS CAN NOT BE IN COMFORT IN THEIR MOTHERLAND, WHERE SHALL THEY FEEL THEMSELVES IN FULL COMFORT ON THIS PLANET? WE ALWAYS IMAGINED GEORGIA AS OUR LEGENDARY MOTHERLAND IN WHICH OUR BEAUTIFUL HEARTED SIBLINGS LIVE UNDER SOVIET PRESSURE FOR MANY YEARS. ARE NOT OUR ETHNIC-CULTURAL TRADITIONS OUR COMMON VALUES WHATEVER OUR BELIEVES? WE HAVE ENOUGH INFO INCLUDING SCENES FROM IMEDI, RUSTAVI-2 AND GEOTVR STATIONS ABOUT CHRISTIANIZATION CEREMONIES IN ACH'ARA. ALSO, WE KNOW THAT SOME INTERESTING POWERS PAY MONEY TO PEOPLE TO CHANGE THEIR RELIGION AND NAMES. AND, THEY TELL THAT THEY CAN FIND JOBS FOR THOSE CHANGING THEIR RELIGION. THESE POWERS BLAME MUSLIM GEORGIANS IN ACH'ARA WITH BEING TURK, TATRI, TURKEY'S SPY, ETC. UNLESS THEY CHANGE THEIR RELIGION... I WANT TO EXPLAIN THAT OTTOMANS OR TURKS DID NOT MAKE GEORGIANS IN SOUTHWESTERN GEORGIA MUSLIM BY FORCING OR OTHER WILD WAYS; GEORGIANS IN THOSE REGIONS ACCEPTED ISLAM BY THEIR HEARTS... THEY HAVE NEVER ACCEPTED ENEMINESS TO THEIR ETHNIC SIBLINGS... I ALSO WISH TO KNOW; WHY A PREST SCHOOL HAS BEEN OPENED IN KHULO WHERE THE POPULATION IS COMPLETELY MUSLIM? WHO WILL GO TO THIS SCHOOL? GEORGIAN CHILDREN FROM TBILISI? AND, WHY ARE THERE CHRISTIANITY LECTURES IN THE SCHOOLS IN ACH'ARA GIVEN BY GEORGIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH MEMBERS? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT ANY MUSLIM GEORGIAN ENFORCING THEIR CHRISTIAN GEORGIAN SIBLINGS TO CONVERT TO ISLAM? WHY IS IT FORBIDDEN TO CALL ADHAN (PRAYER'S CALL) IN BATUMI MOSQUE? WOULD IT BE NICE TO STOP THE CLING-CLANG VOICES IN CHURCHES? AND IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND THE CHANGING THE FLAG OF GEORGIA? DOES GEORGIA REFUSE ITS REPUBLICAN EXPERIENCE? IS MONARCHY OR THEOCRACY BETTER THAN DEMOCRACY? BY CHANGING ITS REPUBLICAN FLAG WITH KINGDOM'S FLAG... DO NOT YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR MUSLIM GEORGIAN SIBLINGS IN TURKEY, SAINGILO AND IRAN? DOES GEORGIA BELONGS TO ONLY CHRISTIAN GEORGIANS? HOW WILL YOU DEVELOP YOUR RELATIONS WITH MUSLIM CHECHEN NATION AGAINST RUSSIAN IMPERIALISM ON CAUCASIA? IS IT RIGHT THAT ARMENIANS ARE THE UNSEPERABLE SIBLINGS OF GEORGIANS BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGION? DO THEY SEE YOU AS THEIR CHRISTIAN SIBLINGS? SO THAT THEY IMAGINE TO OCCUPY JAVAKHETI AND SOUTHERN GEORGIA FOR ARMENIA LIKE QARABAGH? IS ORTHODOX RUSSIA ALLY OF GEORGIA? WHY DO WESTERN CHURCHES (PROTESTANT, CATHOLIC, ETC.) FROM EUROPE AND USA GIVE NICE MESSAGES FOR GEORGIA? IS IT BEACUE OF GEORGIAN'S BEAUTIFUL FOLK DANCES OR CUISINE? OF COURSE NO! THEIR AIM IS TO CONVERT GEORGIAN NATION TO THEIR OWN PERSONAL 'CHRISTIANITIES' LIKE PROTESTANT, CATHOLIC, EVANGELIST, PRESBYTARIAN, BAPTIST, ETC... IN FACT THEY DO NOT LIKE AND HAVE NO TOLERANCE ON GEORGIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH... THEY WISH TO MAKE IT A SATELLITE OF THEIR COMPLETELY PERSONAL CHRISTIANITIES... THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT GEORGIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH'S ANCIENT HISTORY. THEY JUST CARE ABOUT 'HOW CAN WE MAKE THOSE PEOPLE OUR SLAVES?' SLAVES OF OUR CAPITALISM, OF OUR CHURCH COMPANIES... WE CAN SEND NEEDED THE PROOFS TO THOSE REQUIRE... JUST MAIL!-- Macahel 11:21, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Macahel, the flag was adopted by the Supreme Council of Adjara democratically elected by the region's population in 2004. What do you mean by "illegal and unlawful"? I'm also interested if you have citizenship of Georgia. If not, then why have you decided that you have a right to judge its status? Take care to answer.-- Kober 14:16, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
As we know, Adjara has an international autonomy according to Article VI of Treaty of Kars. The basic reason of autonomy is Muslim People and their religious, cultural rights. So, is this flag conform this autonomy? You know the meaning of cross that exists in this flag very well. As a result it is unlawful, according to international Treaty of Kars! I'm also interested if you are Ajarian and Muslim Georgian? If not, where does your interested in Adjara come from? As a historical meaning, I'm Ajarian and Muslim Georgian as ethnic. Furthermore there is an international Treaty related autonomy. I hope, now you can understand the right to judge! -- Macahel 15:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Ajaria (Georgia)
Presentation of Ajaria
Name: Ajarian (or Adzharian) Autonomous Republic
Location: Georgia
Status: Constituent part of Georgia.
Notes: The Ajarian ASSR was created in 1921, largely for political reasons. Firstly, it prevented the Georgians from exercising full control over the port of Batumi, and served to encourage supposedly pro-Communist elements amongst Ajaris (or "Lazis") living on the Turkish side of the border.
Stuart Notholt, 28 May 1995
Quoting Rudolf A. Mark - Die Völker der ehemaligen Sowjetunion:
The Ajar (selfname: Adzareli; Russ.: Adzarcy) are a Georgian ethnic group at the south-eastern coast of the Black Sea. They became Christians in the IVth century and got part of the Kingdom of Georgia in the IXth century. Since the middle of the XVIth century they have been under the rule of the Turks, who Islamized the Ajar. The Ajar were integrated into the Russian Empire in 1878. [...] The language of the Ajar is an east Caucasian language.The writing language is Georgian. The Ajar are Sunni Muslims.
Jean-Patrick Fischer, 23 July 2004
Flag of Ajaria
Interfax Agency announced (20 July 2004, 22:20) that the Supreme Council (Parliament) of the Ajarian Autonomous Republic (Georgia) at the first session on Tuesday on 20 July 2004 had ratified a new flag of the autonomous republic. The flag has seven dark blue and white stripes, and in the upper corner the national flag of Georgia with the five red crosses. The dark blue stripes symbolize the sea whereas the white stripes symbolize purity.
Mikhail Revnivtsev, 21 July 2004
Photographies of the flag can be seen on the Ajarian government website. The canton with the Georgian national flag stretches over three vertical stripes (and not over four or five stripes as it had been reported earlier).
Jens Pattke, 17 September 2006
Following the Rose Revolution and the overthrow of President Eduard Shevardnadze in November 2003 in Georgia, during which there was extensive use of the "five-cross flag", which became official after the accession of the new President Mikhail Saakashvili, there was a nationalist movement toward unification of the diverse regions. During the subsequent May 2004 protests against their leader Aslan Abashidze, Ajarians also used the five-cross flag. Abashidze was then overthrown in what many considered a "Rose Revolution" of their own. Saakashvili was welcomed, and Ajaria was reunited with Georgia. So it will hardly be surprising that Ajarians decided to place the five-cross flag in their canton. Unlike most of predominantly Christian Georgia, however, Adjaria is majority Muslim. So it is notable how Adjarians have adopted the five-cross flag as their own, even incorporating it into their regional flag. This is only to emphasize that the flag, despite its crosses, has a nationalist rather than a religious meaning to Georgians.
Richard Knipel, 21 July 2004
Problems with the new flag
BatumiNews (page no longer online) reports a failed attempt to hoist the new flqg of Ajaria in the village of Gonio.
An attempt of hoisting the so-called "five-cross flag" failed in Gonio, while a group of certain forces were trying hard to reach the top of the Village Council of Gonio. The group members, quite a few though, besides the attempt of hoisting the flag, urged for the change of the Ajara Autonomous Republic Government. As was reported, the local population stymied the process, another version goes as law enforcers of the Ajara Autonomous Republic intervened with the gang of squabblers. BatumiNews contacted for the comment press service of the Ajara Autonomous Republic Ministry of Interior. David Gergedava, chief of the press service ruled out any foray on behalf of the law enforcement structures. "The squabble took place among the local population and the group which tried to hoist the flag of the Nationals". The population was compelled by the brute force of destabilizes. The camera belonging to Rustavi 2 was dispossessed temporarily, though the cameraman gained it back through the police assistance.
Johnny Andersson, 21 July 2004-- Macahel 20:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Adjara was never called as Acaristan or Adzharistan under the Ottoman Empire. This information is not true. Adjara was called as Acara under the Ottoman Empire, but it was divided two sandjaks: “Acara-yı Ulya” (it means Upper Adjara) and Acara-yı Sufla (it means Lower Adjara). -- SidE 15:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
FYI, I've blocked User:Macahel for 24 hours for violating the 3RR and I'm willing to block him for longer if he continues to edit war on this article. -- ChrisO 17:47, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok, no problem. Thanks a lot, Khoi.--Kober 05:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)".
Furhermore there was a compromise the title of Machakhel(i) that made by Khoikhoi. But they violated this.
Are these not the reason for blocking? -- Macahel 15:46, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
The only issue that is relevant here is whether the flag is in official use or not. It's clear that the flag has indeed been officially adopted:
Macahel's assertion that the flag "violates Adjara's autonomy" is completely irrelevant to the article - that's his personal point of view and prohibited from inclusion per Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Reliable sources, two of our most fundamental editing policies.
As for Macahel's other "contribution" to the debate, he appears to be having an edit war over on the Turkish Wikipedia as well. There are now two separate (forked) articles at tr:Acara and tr:Acaristan. Obviously this is beyond my ability to resolve but I think we need to settle on which version we link to. I would guess that the Acara article (with flag) is more likely to be accurate than the "Acaristan" article (without flag), which Macahel appears to have mutilated. I note that Macahel hasn't provided any evidence that it's still called "Acaristan" by anyone. -- ChrisO 20:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Guys, may I please remind you that this is English Wikipedia... -- Behemoth 17:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
In doing housecleaning on the citecheck template I found this page. Citecheck is intended for articles that misrepresent citations, such as using a quote out of context. Please discuss specific reasons for the template on the talk page, or go to Wikipedia:Cleanup resources if some other template would be more appropriate. Durova 02:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Do forgive me all for not knowing such things, but I have just noticed the ethnic structure of Adjara as it is on the infobox. Can someone tell me, was Adjaran ever used as an ethnicity/natioanlity? Or did the majority always identify as Georgian? Evlekis 17:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Colonized by Greek merchants in the 5th and 4th cent. B.C., the region later came under Roman rule and after the 9th cent. A.D. was part of Georgia. The Turks conquered the area in the late 17th and early 18th cent. and introduced Islam. Acquired by Russia in 1878, the region became an autonomous republic of Georgia in 1921. In 1991 it became an autonomous republic of the newly independent state of Georgia. Subsequently, the region became increasingly independent of the Georgian central government, leading to a crisis (2004) in which Georgia reasserted its supremacy and forced Adjarian leader Aslan Abashidze into exile.
http://columbia.thefreedictionary.com/Adjarian+Autonomous+Republic-- Macahel 17:51, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Where are the latest developments in the Ajaria conflict? ChrisM, April 27, 2004
Very funny description of the latest developments. It doesn't describe the basic conflict. The oppositional movement is called supporters of Saakashvili. Igor Ivanov's talks with Abashidze are not mentioned at all. Very funny. That's world history Walt Disney style. ChrisM, May 10, 2004
The flag of Adjara was not the official one, but only the flag of Aslan Abashidze's political party. The government of post-Aslan Adjara adopted a new flag in 2004.
Does somebody know what is the current religious composition of Ajaria? Is there more Muslims or Christians? Could somebody to write this in the article? User:PANONIAN
Edits made by 193.140.108.152 seem to be wandalism!!!
Mcx327 a couple days ago removed "forcibly" in the sentence saying that the Ajarians were forcibly Islamized during the Ottoman rule. Did they convert by choice, or did they have no choice? -- Hottentot
Typically under Islamic Sharia law, forcible conversion is not allowed. But as you know, these rules might have been violated. If they converted over several centuries consider this voluntary, if over one year or decade this is probably forcible conversion. Also, I do not know the current Musim vs Christian mix, I presume current Georgian government does not want to emphasize division of Georgians. If this is so, why Ajarian flag has a cross? Abdulnr 12:30, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
There are several reasons to move the page to Adjara.
Google:
Google News:
The government of the region uses the name "Adjara" only [1]. Kober 17:30, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
As Adjarians, we adopt Islam voluntarily!
Now in adjara, there is a Christianization through psychological and economic press. Adjara is an autonomous republic because of Islam. So we don't accept the new flag. And we want to perform Adhan at the mosque.
These are realities of Adjara and Adjarians.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
The last census conducted in Georgia was in 2002 and only estimates could be made for the two regions not controlled by the central government of Georgia ( Abkhazia and South Ossetia). 2002 census included Adjaria.
In 2002, population figures were;
4,371,500 (Georgian controlled) + 230,000 (Abkhazia + South Ossetia) = 4,601,000
Experts' estimates for 2005 population figures are;
4,289,100 (Georgian controlled) + 227,000 (Abkhazia + South Ossetia) = 4,516,000
Statistical Yearbook of Georgia, 2005: Population
The figure given by Adjarastat for the total population of Georgia proper is 4,371,535 which corresponds to the 2002 census. Therefore, it is wrong to state that 376,016 is the 2005 population of Adjaria. It is the 2002 population. Otherwise, why choose the 2002 population for the whole of Georgia? Experts' estimates for 2005 would have been chosen instead. Indeed, for a further example, 121,800 is the 2002 population given for the city of Batumi by the Georgian central agency of statistics, which is also taken over by Adjarastat. But they are and they remain the 2002 figures. Which should be indicated in this article.
Secondly, 2002 census did register ethnicity, but not religion. And in ethnicity terms, all Adjarians were counted as Georgians. One can easily draw a conclusion between the number for the, for example, ethnic Azerbaijani population in Georgia and the corresponding number of Muslims. But Adjarian Muslims have not been put into figures on the basis of an actual count. They are estimates. Could anyone confirm this?
-- Cretanforever 16:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
According to the BBC "Nowadays about half the population professes the Islamic faith" as opposed to which is quite different to the statement in the article that a "significant number of Ajarians remain Sunni Muslims":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/country_profiles/3520322.stm#facts
The Georgian User Kober who argues about the religous composition of Adjara and accuses other users of being non Adjarians seems to have a biased POV regarding this article.
A quoatation from www.geotimes.ge/forum:
I HAVE ENOUGH INFO ABOUT THE OBLIGATIONS APPLIED ON MUSLIM GEORGIANS TO CHANGE THEIR RELIGION. IMEDI AND RUSTAVI-2 TV STATIONS SHOWED THE CEREMONIES OF CHRISTIANIZATION OF MUSLIM GEORGIANS IN ACH'ARA (MACHAKHELA GORGE). MR: ZURAB ZHVANIA JOINED THE LAST CEREMONY IN MACHAKHELA. I REMEMBER THAT HIS MOTHER IS ARMENIAN. THE ONLIEST CAUSE OF AUTONOMY OF ACH'ARA IS ITS RELIGIONAL DIFFERENCE. I DO NOT WANT ACH'ARA TO BE SEPERATED FROM GEORGIA BUT OUR CHRISTIAN SIBLINGS MUST RESPECT TO THEIR MUSLIM GEORGIAN SIBLINGS' BELIEVES. ALSO INTERESTING SCENES RECORDED BY TRT (TURKEY'S OFFICIAL TV STATION) FOR ITS PROGRAM 'SINIRLAR ARASINDA' (meaning: beyond the boundaries). THE CRISTIANIZATION CAMPAIGN IN GEORGIA ON MUSLIM GEORGIANS BOTH IN ACH'ARA AND SAINGILO PUTS US INTO VERY HARD POSITION IN TURKEY'S PUBLIC VIEW. DO NOT THINK THAT MUSLIM GEORGIANS IN TURKEY ARE IN FULL RELIGIONAL COMFORT, BUT IF MUSLIM GEORGIANS CAN NOT BE IN COMFORT IN THEIR MOTHERLAND, WHERE SHALL THEY FEEL THEMSELVES IN FULL COMFORT ON THIS PLANET? WE ALWAYS IMAGINED GEORGIA AS OUR LEGENDARY MOTHERLAND IN WHICH OUR BEAUTIFUL HEARTED SIBLINGS LIVE UNDER SOVIET PRESSURE FOR MANY YEARS. ARE NOT OUR ETHNIC-CULTURAL TRADITIONS OUR COMMON VALUES WHATEVER OUR BELIEVES? WE HAVE ENOUGH INFO INCLUDING SCENES FROM IMEDI, RUSTAVI-2 AND GEOTVR STATIONS ABOUT CHRISTIANIZATION CEREMONIES IN ACH'ARA. ALSO, WE KNOW THAT SOME INTERESTING POWERS PAY MONEY TO PEOPLE TO CHANGE THEIR RELIGION AND NAMES. AND, THEY TELL THAT THEY CAN FIND JOBS FOR THOSE CHANGING THEIR RELIGION. THESE POWERS BLAME MUSLIM GEORGIANS IN ACH'ARA WITH BEING TURK, TATRI, TURKEY'S SPY, ETC. UNLESS THEY CHANGE THEIR RELIGION... I WANT TO EXPLAIN THAT OTTOMANS OR TURKS DID NOT MAKE GEORGIANS IN SOUTHWESTERN GEORGIA MUSLIM BY FORCING OR OTHER WILD WAYS; GEORGIANS IN THOSE REGIONS ACCEPTED ISLAM BY THEIR HEARTS... THEY HAVE NEVER ACCEPTED ENEMINESS TO THEIR ETHNIC SIBLINGS... I ALSO WISH TO KNOW; WHY A PREST SCHOOL HAS BEEN OPENED IN KHULO WHERE THE POPULATION IS COMPLETELY MUSLIM? WHO WILL GO TO THIS SCHOOL? GEORGIAN CHILDREN FROM TBILISI? AND, WHY ARE THERE CHRISTIANITY LECTURES IN THE SCHOOLS IN ACH'ARA GIVEN BY GEORGIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH MEMBERS? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT ANY MUSLIM GEORGIAN ENFORCING THEIR CHRISTIAN GEORGIAN SIBLINGS TO CONVERT TO ISLAM? WHY IS IT FORBIDDEN TO CALL ADHAN (PRAYER'S CALL) IN BATUMI MOSQUE? WOULD IT BE NICE TO STOP THE CLING-CLANG VOICES IN CHURCHES? AND IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND THE CHANGING THE FLAG OF GEORGIA? DOES GEORGIA REFUSE ITS REPUBLICAN EXPERIENCE? IS MONARCHY OR THEOCRACY BETTER THAN DEMOCRACY? BY CHANGING ITS REPUBLICAN FLAG WITH KINGDOM'S FLAG... DO NOT YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR MUSLIM GEORGIAN SIBLINGS IN TURKEY, SAINGILO AND IRAN? DOES GEORGIA BELONGS TO ONLY CHRISTIAN GEORGIANS? HOW WILL YOU DEVELOP YOUR RELATIONS WITH MUSLIM CHECHEN NATION AGAINST RUSSIAN IMPERIALISM ON CAUCASIA? IS IT RIGHT THAT ARMENIANS ARE THE UNSEPERABLE SIBLINGS OF GEORGIANS BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGION? DO THEY SEE YOU AS THEIR CHRISTIAN SIBLINGS? SO THAT THEY IMAGINE TO OCCUPY JAVAKHETI AND SOUTHERN GEORGIA FOR ARMENIA LIKE QARABAGH? IS ORTHODOX RUSSIA ALLY OF GEORGIA? WHY DO WESTERN CHURCHES (PROTESTANT, CATHOLIC, ETC.) FROM EUROPE AND USA GIVE NICE MESSAGES FOR GEORGIA? IS IT BEACUE OF GEORGIAN'S BEAUTIFUL FOLK DANCES OR CUISINE? OF COURSE NO! THEIR AIM IS TO CONVERT GEORGIAN NATION TO THEIR OWN PERSONAL 'CHRISTIANITIES' LIKE PROTESTANT, CATHOLIC, EVANGELIST, PRESBYTARIAN, BAPTIST, ETC... IN FACT THEY DO NOT LIKE AND HAVE NO TOLERANCE ON GEORGIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH... THEY WISH TO MAKE IT A SATELLITE OF THEIR COMPLETELY PERSONAL CHRISTIANITIES... THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT GEORGIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH'S ANCIENT HISTORY. THEY JUST CARE ABOUT 'HOW CAN WE MAKE THOSE PEOPLE OUR SLAVES?' SLAVES OF OUR CAPITALISM, OF OUR CHURCH COMPANIES... WE CAN SEND NEEDED THE PROOFS TO THOSE REQUIRE... JUST MAIL!-- Macahel 11:21, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Macahel, the flag was adopted by the Supreme Council of Adjara democratically elected by the region's population in 2004. What do you mean by "illegal and unlawful"? I'm also interested if you have citizenship of Georgia. If not, then why have you decided that you have a right to judge its status? Take care to answer.-- Kober 14:16, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
As we know, Adjara has an international autonomy according to Article VI of Treaty of Kars. The basic reason of autonomy is Muslim People and their religious, cultural rights. So, is this flag conform this autonomy? You know the meaning of cross that exists in this flag very well. As a result it is unlawful, according to international Treaty of Kars! I'm also interested if you are Ajarian and Muslim Georgian? If not, where does your interested in Adjara come from? As a historical meaning, I'm Ajarian and Muslim Georgian as ethnic. Furthermore there is an international Treaty related autonomy. I hope, now you can understand the right to judge! -- Macahel 15:32, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Ajaria (Georgia)
Presentation of Ajaria
Name: Ajarian (or Adzharian) Autonomous Republic
Location: Georgia
Status: Constituent part of Georgia.
Notes: The Ajarian ASSR was created in 1921, largely for political reasons. Firstly, it prevented the Georgians from exercising full control over the port of Batumi, and served to encourage supposedly pro-Communist elements amongst Ajaris (or "Lazis") living on the Turkish side of the border.
Stuart Notholt, 28 May 1995
Quoting Rudolf A. Mark - Die Völker der ehemaligen Sowjetunion:
The Ajar (selfname: Adzareli; Russ.: Adzarcy) are a Georgian ethnic group at the south-eastern coast of the Black Sea. They became Christians in the IVth century and got part of the Kingdom of Georgia in the IXth century. Since the middle of the XVIth century they have been under the rule of the Turks, who Islamized the Ajar. The Ajar were integrated into the Russian Empire in 1878. [...] The language of the Ajar is an east Caucasian language.The writing language is Georgian. The Ajar are Sunni Muslims.
Jean-Patrick Fischer, 23 July 2004
Flag of Ajaria
Interfax Agency announced (20 July 2004, 22:20) that the Supreme Council (Parliament) of the Ajarian Autonomous Republic (Georgia) at the first session on Tuesday on 20 July 2004 had ratified a new flag of the autonomous republic. The flag has seven dark blue and white stripes, and in the upper corner the national flag of Georgia with the five red crosses. The dark blue stripes symbolize the sea whereas the white stripes symbolize purity.
Mikhail Revnivtsev, 21 July 2004
Photographies of the flag can be seen on the Ajarian government website. The canton with the Georgian national flag stretches over three vertical stripes (and not over four or five stripes as it had been reported earlier).
Jens Pattke, 17 September 2006
Following the Rose Revolution and the overthrow of President Eduard Shevardnadze in November 2003 in Georgia, during which there was extensive use of the "five-cross flag", which became official after the accession of the new President Mikhail Saakashvili, there was a nationalist movement toward unification of the diverse regions. During the subsequent May 2004 protests against their leader Aslan Abashidze, Ajarians also used the five-cross flag. Abashidze was then overthrown in what many considered a "Rose Revolution" of their own. Saakashvili was welcomed, and Ajaria was reunited with Georgia. So it will hardly be surprising that Ajarians decided to place the five-cross flag in their canton. Unlike most of predominantly Christian Georgia, however, Adjaria is majority Muslim. So it is notable how Adjarians have adopted the five-cross flag as their own, even incorporating it into their regional flag. This is only to emphasize that the flag, despite its crosses, has a nationalist rather than a religious meaning to Georgians.
Richard Knipel, 21 July 2004
Problems with the new flag
BatumiNews (page no longer online) reports a failed attempt to hoist the new flqg of Ajaria in the village of Gonio.
An attempt of hoisting the so-called "five-cross flag" failed in Gonio, while a group of certain forces were trying hard to reach the top of the Village Council of Gonio. The group members, quite a few though, besides the attempt of hoisting the flag, urged for the change of the Ajara Autonomous Republic Government. As was reported, the local population stymied the process, another version goes as law enforcers of the Ajara Autonomous Republic intervened with the gang of squabblers. BatumiNews contacted for the comment press service of the Ajara Autonomous Republic Ministry of Interior. David Gergedava, chief of the press service ruled out any foray on behalf of the law enforcement structures. "The squabble took place among the local population and the group which tried to hoist the flag of the Nationals". The population was compelled by the brute force of destabilizes. The camera belonging to Rustavi 2 was dispossessed temporarily, though the cameraman gained it back through the police assistance.
Johnny Andersson, 21 July 2004-- Macahel 20:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Adjara was never called as Acaristan or Adzharistan under the Ottoman Empire. This information is not true. Adjara was called as Acara under the Ottoman Empire, but it was divided two sandjaks: “Acara-yı Ulya” (it means Upper Adjara) and Acara-yı Sufla (it means Lower Adjara). -- SidE 15:20, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
FYI, I've blocked User:Macahel for 24 hours for violating the 3RR and I'm willing to block him for longer if he continues to edit war on this article. -- ChrisO 17:47, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok, no problem. Thanks a lot, Khoi.--Kober 05:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)".
Furhermore there was a compromise the title of Machakhel(i) that made by Khoikhoi. But they violated this.
Are these not the reason for blocking? -- Macahel 15:46, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
The only issue that is relevant here is whether the flag is in official use or not. It's clear that the flag has indeed been officially adopted:
Macahel's assertion that the flag "violates Adjara's autonomy" is completely irrelevant to the article - that's his personal point of view and prohibited from inclusion per Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Reliable sources, two of our most fundamental editing policies.
As for Macahel's other "contribution" to the debate, he appears to be having an edit war over on the Turkish Wikipedia as well. There are now two separate (forked) articles at tr:Acara and tr:Acaristan. Obviously this is beyond my ability to resolve but I think we need to settle on which version we link to. I would guess that the Acara article (with flag) is more likely to be accurate than the "Acaristan" article (without flag), which Macahel appears to have mutilated. I note that Macahel hasn't provided any evidence that it's still called "Acaristan" by anyone. -- ChrisO 20:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Guys, may I please remind you that this is English Wikipedia... -- Behemoth 17:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
In doing housecleaning on the citecheck template I found this page. Citecheck is intended for articles that misrepresent citations, such as using a quote out of context. Please discuss specific reasons for the template on the talk page, or go to Wikipedia:Cleanup resources if some other template would be more appropriate. Durova 02:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Do forgive me all for not knowing such things, but I have just noticed the ethnic structure of Adjara as it is on the infobox. Can someone tell me, was Adjaran ever used as an ethnicity/natioanlity? Or did the majority always identify as Georgian? Evlekis 17:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Colonized by Greek merchants in the 5th and 4th cent. B.C., the region later came under Roman rule and after the 9th cent. A.D. was part of Georgia. The Turks conquered the area in the late 17th and early 18th cent. and introduced Islam. Acquired by Russia in 1878, the region became an autonomous republic of Georgia in 1921. In 1991 it became an autonomous republic of the newly independent state of Georgia. Subsequently, the region became increasingly independent of the Georgian central government, leading to a crisis (2004) in which Georgia reasserted its supremacy and forced Adjarian leader Aslan Abashidze into exile.
http://columbia.thefreedictionary.com/Adjarian+Autonomous+Republic-- Macahel 17:51, 17 February 2007 (UTC)