Abhinandan moustache was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 12 March 2019 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Abhinandan Varthaman. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... This is a developing story and more details are awaited. There is a growing skirmish between Pakistan and India, and this POW could play a part in deescalating tensions.
This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... Abhinandan Varthaman is hero of India who has been captured as PoW by Pakistan. Pakistan is treated him inhumanely by totally disregarding geneva convention.
This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... The page is just starting and new updates will be made. Texans123123 ( talk) 13:53, 27 February 2019 (UTC) Tank
This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... (Article needs formation and writing fixing, I'll update it remove speedy deletion put it under AFD) MrZINE 14:11, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
The subject is already covered in multiple incidents (though not consistent with time), but for last 3 days. Multiple reliable sources have opened up as primary and secondary during this week. There is a live telecast of events surrounding him on all news channels in India and Pakistan today. The story is developing from a regional political and diplomatic levels. The notability is similar to Kambampati_Nachiketa If the article is staying, must be handled carefully for human rights and war escalation scenario.( talk) 12:23, 01 March, 2019 (CET) —Preceding undated comment added 11:25, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
While India claims that Pakistan used the F-16 jet to violate the Indian air space and attempt air strikes in Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan has rejected any such notion —as any such admission would violate US sale conditions of not letting Pakistan use F-16s in an offensive role.
Please mention that Pakistan rejected the claim which was made by India. This article will surely escalate tensions because of false information. Andrewkay009 ( talk) 19:10, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
If the event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented". This is certainly not true. The event is significant enough to be on wikipedia's main page. Wing commander is the only POW in the entire incident, so his role is certainly substantial, and widely covered in the media. Hence, an article on the subject is justified. — Sarvatra ( talk, contribs) 11:17, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
He ain't going to be notable for any other reason.My apologies, but we aren't playing astrology here. Whether he ain't going to be notable or not, that is in the future. But right now, the subject is certainly notable.
I don't see POW or people captured by pirates/ISIS getting articles left right and centre.Hold up. Are you seriously equating Pakistan, a sovereign nation, to pirates/ISIS?
Just because we can does not mean that one should create an articleWhat in the world is that supposed to mean? We can create an article because the subject is notable (as already explained). Now tell me why shouldn't we? — Sarvatra ( talk, contribs) 11:46, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
We generally should avoid having an article on a person when each of three conditions is metand #3 doesn't fit here, the event 2019 India–Pakistan standoff, is significant and his role is substantial and well documented plus WP:1E states:
If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate. GSS ( talk| c| em) 11:48, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
References
WP:NOTNEWS and WP:RECENTISM come into play. This is way over detailed coverage of a recent event, showing our time bias towards current events, and it's squarely a news event. We only care about this because it's happening right now. The 2019 India–Pakistan standoff is the real event, and this is just one minor event in that. The section within that article is sufficient for this event. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 06:54, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Indian media is ranked 138 on world press freedom index
[1] and should be partially banned from being used as reliable source on Wikipedia. -
Gracespingmier (
talk) 02:26, 2 March 2019 (UTC) -- block evading sock puppet --
DBig
Xrayᗙ 05:01, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
References
User:Myopia123 and others any suggestions on how and upto what detail we could/should add info about the international coverage of his Epic Moustache. [1] [2] [3] [4] -- DBig Xrayᗙ 07:30, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
References
I added moustache content and it was removed in this edit. I think, considering what the source says, and other sources, that this is notable content. Thoughts?
Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 11:46, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Googling it, this moustache is all over the news. It should certainly be mentioned. Please comment on this. Thank you!!! Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 11:47, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Rumours spread that Lockheed Martin was planning to sue Pakistan for saying that the F-16 was shot down. The claim was made by a Pakistani civil servant and was subsequently refuSed by LM India. Should this be mentioned as well? -- Rsrikanth05 ( talk) 12:04, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
This is fake news India did not shoot down any F16
Considering there are no independent sources or proper evidence to verify India'/ claims, would if not be better to reword "He received widespread media recognition when he took down Pakistan's F-16"
The same goes for "A statement released by the IAF said that prior to his MiG's crashing, a PAF Lockheed Martin F-16 crashed in Pakistan" where it should be clearly mentioned that PAF denied IAF's claim 103.78.135.203 ( talk) 14:17, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Its right you should mention that the claim was denied by PAF. Andrewkay009 ( talk) 19:01, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
While India claims that Pakistan used the F-16 jet to violate the Indian air space and attempt air strikes in Jammu and Kashmir, Islamabad has rejected any such notion —as any such admission would violate US sale conditions of not letting Pakistan use F-16s in an offensive role. Andrewkay009 ( talk) 19:04, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
The IAF claimed that he shot down Pakistan's f-16 jet which was denied by PAF. Please correct it, don't misinform people. Andrewkay009 ( talk) 18:59, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
The Indian media claim of an F-16 going down is unsubstantiated and it would be misleading to readers to acknowledge it on a Wikipedia article. Some points below to consider:
The NYT recently ran an article on the dogfight and did not even bother mentioning the F-16 story after doing their own fact-checking. [1]
Let's please keep Wikipedia to substantiated information, that is what people expect from it. Especially in the "fog of war" and dubious media claims, like we are in now. Afinebalance ( talk) 06:39, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Information related to F-16 and Su-30 MKI is unconfirmed. There is no authentic or verifiable information related to Mig-21 Bison and F-16. In fact, Mig-21 Bison was shootdown by JF-17 Thunder during dogfight in Pakistan Aerospace. No doubt Indian Pilot was brave and praised by Pakistani Pilots. He was served with Tea and he also appreciate Pakistan for treatment. There is unverified information about a dogfight between F-16 and Su-30 MKI (Callsign Avenger 11 and 12) prior Mig-21 Bison and JF-17 Thunder. According to a report, During Operation Swift Retort Pakistan Mirage jet fighter crossed LOC and bombed inside Indian military jurisdiction. Simultaneously, Indian Su-30 MKI fighter aircrafts scrambled to counter Pakistani Jets. Pakistan Air Force formation was consist of 4 layers and F-16 was part of 2nd Layer. Both aircrafts engaged eachother near Rajori-Poonch Sector where F-16 shootdown Su-30 MKI with BVR missile. Indian air force started a rescue operation was suffered with own air defense system. However, mentioned information is unverified and only verified information is Mig-21 Bison. NaqqashSakhawat ( talk) 12:51, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Dear User:Xooxwiki, please refrain from adding further info in violation of WP:NEUTRAL and seek consensus before re-adding it. I am in the process of reverting it all. Myopia123 ( talk) 19:43, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
---
User:Myopia123 - I am listing down neutral media sources for each of the points here. If this goes uncontested, I am reverting it
Pakistan retaliated by sending in an army of 24 fighter jets to cross over to the Indian air space. These fighter jets were intercepted by 8 IAF fighters, including the MiG 21 Bison piloted by Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman.[12]
A dogfight ensued between a Pakistani F-16 jet flown by Shahaz-ud-Din of the Pakistan Air Force and Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman. https://sputniknews.com/asia/201903021072895717-pakistani-f-16-pilot-lynched/
According to a NDTV report, the Wing Commander engaged an R-73 air-to-air missile that hit the F-16 fighter jet. At the same time, the F-16 launched two AMRAAM (Advanced Medium Range Air-To-Air Missile) missiles. One of these missiles struck the aircraft while another missed the wingman. Both pilots were forced to eject and were seen parachuting down on the Pakistani side of the Line of Control. https://www.rt.com/news/452729-india-pakistan-air-battle-video/
According to a report on the Times of India, Abhinandan Varthaman was not immediately sure of where he had landed and asked the mob that had gathered from the nearby village whether he had landed in India or Pakistan. When told that it was India, the Wing Commander raised pro-India slogans. However, he was later told by another person in the mob that the place was Qillan in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. As the mob began raising pro-Pakistan slogans, Abhinandan Varthaman raised his pistol and fired in the air. As he was being chased, reports note that the Wing Commander swallowed some crucial documents while jumping into a nearby pond to escape. A few blood soaked documents that includes a pink colored book titled "Survival on Land", a notebook and a map were later recovered from the pond.[14]
Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was soon overpowered by the mob that assaulted him. He is also reported to have been shot in the leg by one of the people in the mob. He was soon taken into custody by six members of the Pakistani army who were called in by the villagers.
I understand that users from both India and Pakistan are editing this article. Please keep things WP:NEUTRAL by following the following steps:
Kindly do the above in the best interests of Wikipedia and this article. Myopia123 ( talk) 20:27, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Please add best image of abhinandan sir. He is ideal for all young one. Thanking you. Indiamerijaan2001 ( talk) 12:44, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
I noticed that the date of birth was added in this edit. However, there is no reliable source for it. Some references I found online seem to be replicating this Wikipedia article. Could someone find a reliable reference for it?-- DreamLinker ( talk) 13:01, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
"He received widespread media recognition when he shot down a Pakistani F-16"
Can this be fixed? Abhinandan shooting down an F-16 is at the end of the day, a claim. This claim has yet to be proven and/or ascertained
103.78.135.203 (
talk) 13:14, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Indiamerijaan2001 ( talk) 03:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
There was no aerial Dogfight occurred between Mig-21 Bison or JF-17 Thunder. In Fact, there is unverified information about a dogfight between F-16 and Su-30 MKI (Callsign Avenger 11 and 12) prior Mig-21 Bison and JF-17 Thunder. According to a report, During Operation Swift Retort Pakistan Mirage jet fighter crossed LOC and bombed inside Indian military jurisdiction. Simultaneously, Indian Su-30 MKI fighter aircrafts scrambled to counter Pakistani Jets. Pakistan Air Force formation was consist of 4 layers and F-16 was part of 2nd Layer. Both aircrafts engaged eachother near Rajori-Poonch Sector where F-16 shootdown Su-30 MKI with BVR missile. Indian air force started a rescue operation was suffered with own air defense system. However, mentioned information is unverified and only verified information is Mig-21 Bison. NaqqashSakhawat ( talk) 12:54, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi All, wanted to see what thoughts you all have on adding still shots from the videos and images released (and then deleted after they went viral) by Pak Army forces? I think it is useful to have this discussion now and seek a consensus because it will inevitably happen. Believe the following points are important to consider:
Welcome your thoughts and hope we can reach a consensus.
Myopia123 (
talk) 18:11, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Hummer431 (
talk) 18:26, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
blocked sock --
DBig
Xrayᗙ 09:01, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
blocked sock --
DBig
Xrayᗙ 09:01, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
This is notable information — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.46.76.106 ( talk) 08:07, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
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Article needs to be protected for security reasons and much details given on wiki May create problem to fighter pilot. German Bird ( talk) 20:40, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Dear User:Störm, I will go so far as to label your actions vandalism. Please stop this and seek consensus on the talk page or I will report you. Myopia123 ( talk) 21:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
The BBC article that is based on the account of the village chief mentions the documents were prevented from being destroyed by the villagers:
I note a reluctance to acknowledge that he belongs to a Jain family. The Tamil Jains are microscopic minority that have manged to survive in Tamilandu.
"The entire village has come together to organise a five-day-long special pooja in Jain temples across Karanthai, Vembakkam and Thirupanamoor villages, starting today. “They are a Jain family and often visit the Karanthai temple,” says Adirajan." [2]
Karanthai and Thirupanamoor are almost the same village, both with ancient Jain temples as the major landmarks. ( https://www.google.com/maps/@12.7632856,79.585551,17z). Also see Thirupanamoor photos.
Incidentally it is common for Tamil Jains to be named after the names of Jain Tirthankaras. Both Abhinandan and Varthaman (Vardhman) are names of Jain Tirthankaras.
Some news reports from Pakistan claim that he said he is a Hindu. I have not seen any video that includes him saying that. It is not clear what he said and what was the context. Malaiya ( talk) 18:26, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Can this be placed into the article somewhere - "I am not supposed to tell you this". It has quite a few sources which quote the line, and it has been used in various capacities so far. Here are a few sources to support the addition of this quote into the article.
Just one or two small lines somewhere maybe? DiplomatTesterMan ( talk) 19:37, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Please note that Abhinandan is the first name of the Wing Commander, Varthaman is the first name of his father, the Air Marshal, and Simhakutty is the name of the grandfather who had also served in the Air Force. [1] [2] Malaiya ( talk) 17:49, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Here is one more reference. [3]
Varthaman (வர்தமான்) is not a family name: In Tamilnadu, as in Gujarat and Maharashtra, it is common to add father's name. Many in South do not use a family name, thus father's name might become the last name (or the first name) in forms etc. It should be noted that in Tamil ta, tha, da, dha are all represented by the same letter த (see Tamil script). Thus in other indian languages it can be transcribed as वर्धमान. It does stand for the 24th Jain Tirthankara ( Abhinandan is 4th). Malaiya ( talk) 19:58, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Shouldn't the infobox be be updated with more information about him like, Wife, Children, Relatives, Born, Residence, Nationality etc. just to name a few; along with a picture of him? Can someone please do that. It will look better. Thanks! Justlookingforthemoment ( talk) 10:54, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
please remove this fake news ... he did not shoot down any F16 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.189.12.200 ( talk) 11:55, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Aumnamahashiva - Please refrain from mentioning spouse and children names unless they are notable in their own right. Please refer to this link. /info/en/?search=User_talk:Xooxwiki#Do_not_add_non_notable_spouse_and_children,_respect_the_BLP_privacy
Xooxwiki ( talk) 03:16, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
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Please add the fact that he shot down F-16 for which he got VrC in the very first few line of the intro. Without this fact you are disrespecting our national hero and it is not at all acceptable. Mrinalpaul2 ( talk) 20:38, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Anaguaydf: saying someone "refuted the later" is broken English grammar. Please stop trying to rewrite the sentence to read that way. Toddst1 ( talk) 22:37, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
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I want to add some points Nikhil1708 ( talk) 16:28, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
I want to add some points. Nikhil1708 ( talk) 16:29, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
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Can it be added in the lead paragraph that he probably shot down an F-16? Just probably; I m not asking to write that it is confirmed. It is important. Also could we enter "if this is confirmed, he is the first pilot to use a 3++ generation aircraft to shoot down a 4th generation aircraft." 183.83.146.190 ( talk) 12:32, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Closed Do not reopen this request until you have found a reliable source. P,TO 19104 ( talk) ( contribs) 15:45, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
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In the statement However, the same has not been confirmed by US Official citing it as bilateral matter between US and Pakistan
, there are grammar mistakes. Please rewrite it as However, the same has not been confirmed by US Officials, citing it as a bilateral matter between US and Pakistan
and put a full stop at the end. Thank you.
183.83.146.220 (
talk) 07:26, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
I am changing all Varthamans to Abhinandans since his preferred name appears to "Abhinandan" in most media outlets. I think this may be an Indian vs. Western thing to refer people by birth names or family names respectively. But for consistency I am changing all Varthamans to Abhinandans-- LostCitrationHunter ( talk) 14:47, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
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175.107.212.0 ( talk) 18:15, 16 January 2022 (UTC)and india air force claimed to shot down f 16 air craft which has no proved
hii there, I'm saying that the name of this man is vardhman abhinandan not Varthaman abhinandan. so please change title name to vardhaman DrSatyendra21 ( talk) 19:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 15:36, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:22, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
Abhinandan moustache was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 12 March 2019 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Abhinandan Varthaman. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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talk page for discussing improvements to the
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... This is a developing story and more details are awaited. There is a growing skirmish between Pakistan and India, and this POW could play a part in deescalating tensions.
This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... Abhinandan Varthaman is hero of India who has been captured as PoW by Pakistan. Pakistan is treated him inhumanely by totally disregarding geneva convention.
This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... The page is just starting and new updates will be made. Texans123123 ( talk) 13:53, 27 February 2019 (UTC) Tank
This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... (Article needs formation and writing fixing, I'll update it remove speedy deletion put it under AFD) MrZINE 14:11, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
The subject is already covered in multiple incidents (though not consistent with time), but for last 3 days. Multiple reliable sources have opened up as primary and secondary during this week. There is a live telecast of events surrounding him on all news channels in India and Pakistan today. The story is developing from a regional political and diplomatic levels. The notability is similar to Kambampati_Nachiketa If the article is staying, must be handled carefully for human rights and war escalation scenario.( talk) 12:23, 01 March, 2019 (CET) —Preceding undated comment added 11:25, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
While India claims that Pakistan used the F-16 jet to violate the Indian air space and attempt air strikes in Jammu and Kashmir, Pakistan has rejected any such notion —as any such admission would violate US sale conditions of not letting Pakistan use F-16s in an offensive role.
Please mention that Pakistan rejected the claim which was made by India. This article will surely escalate tensions because of false information. Andrewkay009 ( talk) 19:10, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
If the event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented". This is certainly not true. The event is significant enough to be on wikipedia's main page. Wing commander is the only POW in the entire incident, so his role is certainly substantial, and widely covered in the media. Hence, an article on the subject is justified. — Sarvatra ( talk, contribs) 11:17, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
He ain't going to be notable for any other reason.My apologies, but we aren't playing astrology here. Whether he ain't going to be notable or not, that is in the future. But right now, the subject is certainly notable.
I don't see POW or people captured by pirates/ISIS getting articles left right and centre.Hold up. Are you seriously equating Pakistan, a sovereign nation, to pirates/ISIS?
Just because we can does not mean that one should create an articleWhat in the world is that supposed to mean? We can create an article because the subject is notable (as already explained). Now tell me why shouldn't we? — Sarvatra ( talk, contribs) 11:46, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
We generally should avoid having an article on a person when each of three conditions is metand #3 doesn't fit here, the event 2019 India–Pakistan standoff, is significant and his role is substantial and well documented plus WP:1E states:
If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate. GSS ( talk| c| em) 11:48, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
References
WP:NOTNEWS and WP:RECENTISM come into play. This is way over detailed coverage of a recent event, showing our time bias towards current events, and it's squarely a news event. We only care about this because it's happening right now. The 2019 India–Pakistan standoff is the real event, and this is just one minor event in that. The section within that article is sufficient for this event. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 06:54, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Indian media is ranked 138 on world press freedom index
[1] and should be partially banned from being used as reliable source on Wikipedia. -
Gracespingmier (
talk) 02:26, 2 March 2019 (UTC) -- block evading sock puppet --
DBig
Xrayᗙ 05:01, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
References
User:Myopia123 and others any suggestions on how and upto what detail we could/should add info about the international coverage of his Epic Moustache. [1] [2] [3] [4] -- DBig Xrayᗙ 07:30, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
References
I added moustache content and it was removed in this edit. I think, considering what the source says, and other sources, that this is notable content. Thoughts?
Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 11:46, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Googling it, this moustache is all over the news. It should certainly be mentioned. Please comment on this. Thank you!!! Anna Frodesiak ( talk) 11:47, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Rumours spread that Lockheed Martin was planning to sue Pakistan for saying that the F-16 was shot down. The claim was made by a Pakistani civil servant and was subsequently refuSed by LM India. Should this be mentioned as well? -- Rsrikanth05 ( talk) 12:04, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
This is fake news India did not shoot down any F16
Considering there are no independent sources or proper evidence to verify India'/ claims, would if not be better to reword "He received widespread media recognition when he took down Pakistan's F-16"
The same goes for "A statement released by the IAF said that prior to his MiG's crashing, a PAF Lockheed Martin F-16 crashed in Pakistan" where it should be clearly mentioned that PAF denied IAF's claim 103.78.135.203 ( talk) 14:17, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Its right you should mention that the claim was denied by PAF. Andrewkay009 ( talk) 19:01, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
While India claims that Pakistan used the F-16 jet to violate the Indian air space and attempt air strikes in Jammu and Kashmir, Islamabad has rejected any such notion —as any such admission would violate US sale conditions of not letting Pakistan use F-16s in an offensive role. Andrewkay009 ( talk) 19:04, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
The IAF claimed that he shot down Pakistan's f-16 jet which was denied by PAF. Please correct it, don't misinform people. Andrewkay009 ( talk) 18:59, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
The Indian media claim of an F-16 going down is unsubstantiated and it would be misleading to readers to acknowledge it on a Wikipedia article. Some points below to consider:
The NYT recently ran an article on the dogfight and did not even bother mentioning the F-16 story after doing their own fact-checking. [1]
Let's please keep Wikipedia to substantiated information, that is what people expect from it. Especially in the "fog of war" and dubious media claims, like we are in now. Afinebalance ( talk) 06:39, 5 March 2019 (UTC)
Information related to F-16 and Su-30 MKI is unconfirmed. There is no authentic or verifiable information related to Mig-21 Bison and F-16. In fact, Mig-21 Bison was shootdown by JF-17 Thunder during dogfight in Pakistan Aerospace. No doubt Indian Pilot was brave and praised by Pakistani Pilots. He was served with Tea and he also appreciate Pakistan for treatment. There is unverified information about a dogfight between F-16 and Su-30 MKI (Callsign Avenger 11 and 12) prior Mig-21 Bison and JF-17 Thunder. According to a report, During Operation Swift Retort Pakistan Mirage jet fighter crossed LOC and bombed inside Indian military jurisdiction. Simultaneously, Indian Su-30 MKI fighter aircrafts scrambled to counter Pakistani Jets. Pakistan Air Force formation was consist of 4 layers and F-16 was part of 2nd Layer. Both aircrafts engaged eachother near Rajori-Poonch Sector where F-16 shootdown Su-30 MKI with BVR missile. Indian air force started a rescue operation was suffered with own air defense system. However, mentioned information is unverified and only verified information is Mig-21 Bison. NaqqashSakhawat ( talk) 12:51, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Dear User:Xooxwiki, please refrain from adding further info in violation of WP:NEUTRAL and seek consensus before re-adding it. I am in the process of reverting it all. Myopia123 ( talk) 19:43, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
---
User:Myopia123 - I am listing down neutral media sources for each of the points here. If this goes uncontested, I am reverting it
Pakistan retaliated by sending in an army of 24 fighter jets to cross over to the Indian air space. These fighter jets were intercepted by 8 IAF fighters, including the MiG 21 Bison piloted by Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman.[12]
A dogfight ensued between a Pakistani F-16 jet flown by Shahaz-ud-Din of the Pakistan Air Force and Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman. https://sputniknews.com/asia/201903021072895717-pakistani-f-16-pilot-lynched/
According to a NDTV report, the Wing Commander engaged an R-73 air-to-air missile that hit the F-16 fighter jet. At the same time, the F-16 launched two AMRAAM (Advanced Medium Range Air-To-Air Missile) missiles. One of these missiles struck the aircraft while another missed the wingman. Both pilots were forced to eject and were seen parachuting down on the Pakistani side of the Line of Control. https://www.rt.com/news/452729-india-pakistan-air-battle-video/
According to a report on the Times of India, Abhinandan Varthaman was not immediately sure of where he had landed and asked the mob that had gathered from the nearby village whether he had landed in India or Pakistan. When told that it was India, the Wing Commander raised pro-India slogans. However, he was later told by another person in the mob that the place was Qillan in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. As the mob began raising pro-Pakistan slogans, Abhinandan Varthaman raised his pistol and fired in the air. As he was being chased, reports note that the Wing Commander swallowed some crucial documents while jumping into a nearby pond to escape. A few blood soaked documents that includes a pink colored book titled "Survival on Land", a notebook and a map were later recovered from the pond.[14]
Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was soon overpowered by the mob that assaulted him. He is also reported to have been shot in the leg by one of the people in the mob. He was soon taken into custody by six members of the Pakistani army who were called in by the villagers.
I understand that users from both India and Pakistan are editing this article. Please keep things WP:NEUTRAL by following the following steps:
Kindly do the above in the best interests of Wikipedia and this article. Myopia123 ( talk) 20:27, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
Please add best image of abhinandan sir. He is ideal for all young one. Thanking you. Indiamerijaan2001 ( talk) 12:44, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
I noticed that the date of birth was added in this edit. However, there is no reliable source for it. Some references I found online seem to be replicating this Wikipedia article. Could someone find a reliable reference for it?-- DreamLinker ( talk) 13:01, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
"He received widespread media recognition when he shot down a Pakistani F-16"
Can this be fixed? Abhinandan shooting down an F-16 is at the end of the day, a claim. This claim has yet to be proven and/or ascertained
103.78.135.203 (
talk) 13:14, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Indiamerijaan2001 ( talk) 03:04, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
There was no aerial Dogfight occurred between Mig-21 Bison or JF-17 Thunder. In Fact, there is unverified information about a dogfight between F-16 and Su-30 MKI (Callsign Avenger 11 and 12) prior Mig-21 Bison and JF-17 Thunder. According to a report, During Operation Swift Retort Pakistan Mirage jet fighter crossed LOC and bombed inside Indian military jurisdiction. Simultaneously, Indian Su-30 MKI fighter aircrafts scrambled to counter Pakistani Jets. Pakistan Air Force formation was consist of 4 layers and F-16 was part of 2nd Layer. Both aircrafts engaged eachother near Rajori-Poonch Sector where F-16 shootdown Su-30 MKI with BVR missile. Indian air force started a rescue operation was suffered with own air defense system. However, mentioned information is unverified and only verified information is Mig-21 Bison. NaqqashSakhawat ( talk) 12:54, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Hi All, wanted to see what thoughts you all have on adding still shots from the videos and images released (and then deleted after they went viral) by Pak Army forces? I think it is useful to have this discussion now and seek a consensus because it will inevitably happen. Believe the following points are important to consider:
Welcome your thoughts and hope we can reach a consensus.
Myopia123 (
talk) 18:11, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Hummer431 (
talk) 18:26, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
blocked sock --
DBig
Xrayᗙ 09:01, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
blocked sock --
DBig
Xrayᗙ 09:01, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
This is notable information — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.46.76.106 ( talk) 08:07, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
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Article needs to be protected for security reasons and much details given on wiki May create problem to fighter pilot. German Bird ( talk) 20:40, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Dear User:Störm, I will go so far as to label your actions vandalism. Please stop this and seek consensus on the talk page or I will report you. Myopia123 ( talk) 21:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
The BBC article that is based on the account of the village chief mentions the documents were prevented from being destroyed by the villagers:
I note a reluctance to acknowledge that he belongs to a Jain family. The Tamil Jains are microscopic minority that have manged to survive in Tamilandu.
"The entire village has come together to organise a five-day-long special pooja in Jain temples across Karanthai, Vembakkam and Thirupanamoor villages, starting today. “They are a Jain family and often visit the Karanthai temple,” says Adirajan." [2]
Karanthai and Thirupanamoor are almost the same village, both with ancient Jain temples as the major landmarks. ( https://www.google.com/maps/@12.7632856,79.585551,17z). Also see Thirupanamoor photos.
Incidentally it is common for Tamil Jains to be named after the names of Jain Tirthankaras. Both Abhinandan and Varthaman (Vardhman) are names of Jain Tirthankaras.
Some news reports from Pakistan claim that he said he is a Hindu. I have not seen any video that includes him saying that. It is not clear what he said and what was the context. Malaiya ( talk) 18:26, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Can this be placed into the article somewhere - "I am not supposed to tell you this". It has quite a few sources which quote the line, and it has been used in various capacities so far. Here are a few sources to support the addition of this quote into the article.
Just one or two small lines somewhere maybe? DiplomatTesterMan ( talk) 19:37, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Please note that Abhinandan is the first name of the Wing Commander, Varthaman is the first name of his father, the Air Marshal, and Simhakutty is the name of the grandfather who had also served in the Air Force. [1] [2] Malaiya ( talk) 17:49, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Here is one more reference. [3]
Varthaman (வர்தமான்) is not a family name: In Tamilnadu, as in Gujarat and Maharashtra, it is common to add father's name. Many in South do not use a family name, thus father's name might become the last name (or the first name) in forms etc. It should be noted that in Tamil ta, tha, da, dha are all represented by the same letter த (see Tamil script). Thus in other indian languages it can be transcribed as वर्धमान. It does stand for the 24th Jain Tirthankara ( Abhinandan is 4th). Malaiya ( talk) 19:58, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Shouldn't the infobox be be updated with more information about him like, Wife, Children, Relatives, Born, Residence, Nationality etc. just to name a few; along with a picture of him? Can someone please do that. It will look better. Thanks! Justlookingforthemoment ( talk) 10:54, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
please remove this fake news ... he did not shoot down any F16 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.189.12.200 ( talk) 11:55, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Aumnamahashiva - Please refrain from mentioning spouse and children names unless they are notable in their own right. Please refer to this link. /info/en/?search=User_talk:Xooxwiki#Do_not_add_non_notable_spouse_and_children,_respect_the_BLP_privacy
Xooxwiki ( talk) 03:16, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
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Please add the fact that he shot down F-16 for which he got VrC in the very first few line of the intro. Without this fact you are disrespecting our national hero and it is not at all acceptable. Mrinalpaul2 ( talk) 20:38, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
@ Anaguaydf: saying someone "refuted the later" is broken English grammar. Please stop trying to rewrite the sentence to read that way. Toddst1 ( talk) 22:37, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
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I want to add some points Nikhil1708 ( talk) 16:28, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
I want to add some points. Nikhil1708 ( talk) 16:29, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
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Can it be added in the lead paragraph that he probably shot down an F-16? Just probably; I m not asking to write that it is confirmed. It is important. Also could we enter "if this is confirmed, he is the first pilot to use a 3++ generation aircraft to shoot down a 4th generation aircraft." 183.83.146.190 ( talk) 12:32, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Closed Do not reopen this request until you have found a reliable source. P,TO 19104 ( talk) ( contribs) 15:45, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
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In the statement However, the same has not been confirmed by US Official citing it as bilateral matter between US and Pakistan
, there are grammar mistakes. Please rewrite it as However, the same has not been confirmed by US Officials, citing it as a bilateral matter between US and Pakistan
and put a full stop at the end. Thank you.
183.83.146.220 (
talk) 07:26, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
I am changing all Varthamans to Abhinandans since his preferred name appears to "Abhinandan" in most media outlets. I think this may be an Indian vs. Western thing to refer people by birth names or family names respectively. But for consistency I am changing all Varthamans to Abhinandans-- LostCitrationHunter ( talk) 14:47, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
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175.107.212.0 ( talk) 18:15, 16 January 2022 (UTC)and india air force claimed to shot down f 16 air craft which has no proved
hii there, I'm saying that the name of this man is vardhman abhinandan not Varthaman abhinandan. so please change title name to vardhaman DrSatyendra21 ( talk) 19:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
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