![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I borrowed liberally from the Jessica Watson entry for additions to this article. I like the idea of having a parallel structure for Abby's entry, and the historic background information for both is much the same. There is lots more info that could fill out these sections. It might be nice to have something with the "Other record breaking attempts" section from the Zac Sunderland article duplicated across all of these entries. ( SEC ( talk) 16:48, 24 January 2010 (UTC))
I am reverting the good faith change by BIL regarding the expected completion. The cited, and current, article states Sunderland will finish in July. Sunderland's website states she will complete in June. If you think that information to be incorrect, please cite a current reliable source. According to the guidelines, "Wikipedia does not publish original research." ( SEC ( talk) 20:37, 3 May 2010 (UTC))
I and others have reverted repeated anonymous edits to the "Planning and preparation" section of this article. Today, I requested temporary semi-protection of the article but was denied because "not enough recent disruptive activity to justify protection." The edits that have been made do not follow Wikipedia policies regarding circular citation of Wikipedia articles as sources, non-neutral point of view, and no original research. The repeated edits also use words to avoid such as "impressive," "passionately," and "fearsome."
I do not wish to engage in an edit war so I hope others will help to patrol this issue. I also hope that we can get semi-protection for the article.
— Diiscool ( talk) 16:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
I disagree completely. With the 20/20 show aired Friday night 6/4/2010 many questions are being asked about all the young circumnavigators. While Watson's qualifications are clearly listed, Sunderland's qualifications do not appear to be available or are nonexistent. If the latter is the case, then that needs to be stated. In either case, the Sunderlands or their representatives such as Scott Lurie http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showuser=43488 need to be given the opportunity to respond. Don't sweep this important factor under the rug just because you can't make the two girls "look the same" on their preparation. Send some emails rather than water it down. BTW, the word: "impressive," "passionately," and "fearsome." appear in the actual reference. Vtamal ( talk) 18:12, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
{{geodata-check}}
The coordinates need the following fixes:
173.55.84.184 ( talk) 03:14, 11 June 2010 (UTC) This position is about 300 miles NNW of her reported EPIRB position this morning at the time the EPIRB was activated (40.513s 74.457e) and one hour prior when she last reported her GPS position by radio. (40.50s 74.40e. She has been drifting at 1 knot toward the northwest for the past 12 hours.
I removed the follow from the page:
Sail-World.com reported that the "latest word from Team Abby is that the boat is drifting backwards at around 1 knot. This indicates that no sails are active and that the yacht is not in an upright position."
This is incorrect in many ways. First, I checked Sail-World.com and could not find this quote, it may be there somewhere, but it is still incorrect. Second, it is absolutely impossible to know if the boat is not upright based on the EPIRB signals, visual contact will be the only way to determine this. Third, the only thing we know is the speed and direction of the EPIRBs, NOT of the boat, it is impossible to know if the beacons are on the boat or on a liferaft. Fourth, "backwards" makes no sense, if speed and direction of the EPIRBS are to be included, use a compass bearing, or general direction (ie towards africa, or SSW), "backwards" has little to know meaning. Russeasby ( talk) 03:23, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Well she was just found, UPRIGHT though sans mast. As I said, Sail-World.com was flat out incorrect and should have been remained removed. Russeasby ( talk) 06:35, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I searched on Google Earth and found the Kerguelen Islands located Southwest of Australia rather than Southeast. That should make the island easier to locate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FastJet920 ( talk • contribs) 23:28, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Gwen Gale, thanks for the many good edits here, especially cleaning up some of mine. I wonder about one though, in which you removed my edit that the closest ship was 400 miles (644km) away with the comment "it was not the nearest ship at the time of the event, the Kerguelen islands are much closer)" SailWorld.com reports her position as lat 34.885931 S, long 74.53125 E, which is 1685km from the Kerguelen islands according to Google maps. ( SEC ( talk) 00:40, 11 June 2010 (UTC))
Thanks, Gwen. One other edit, you removed the statement on wind speed of 35kn with the comment "winds were higher" The 35kn speed I entered is reported in Abby's current blog entry "The wind had subsided to around 35 knots" and also in the ABC news article "Abby was in 20-25 foot waves at the time of last contact, with 35-knot winds". Where did you see that it was higher? ( SEC ( talk) 01:11, 11 June 2010 (UTC))
Is it really necessary to include this section into the biographical article? The majority of the content in this table has no direct relation to the subject of the article itself, and is therefor more suited for a separate page detailing young solo navigations. Equally i would point out that this table is included in every page mentioned in the table - if something has to be updated it must be done so in each and every table. At the very least it would seem sensible to store it on a separate page and transclude it instead. Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs) 09:39, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Anyone wnat to have a go at copying or writing a F/U rationale for this? [2]. – Moondyne 06:36, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
{{geodata-check}}
The coordinates need the following fixes:
According to Scott Lurie of ScottsMarineServices.com (SMSScott) a member of Team Abby See: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=102689&view=findpost&p=2879470 Abby's first reported EPIRB position from the USCG was: 40.513s 74.457e The position drifted 12 miles in the first 12 hours @ 64 degree true 72.150.140.133 ( talk) 04:47, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
It seems like it would be most useful to have in the article the coordinates for her position when the EPIRBs were activated, or as close as we can get. The article says "current position" which is going to keep changing. Does anyone have the coords for the EPIRB activation? — Diiscool ( talk) 15:47, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I feel the transcluded table for the Youngest Circumnavigator should be left on this page. Clearly, Sunderland's entire attempt was to be included among this group of people. Though she was not successful, it is still very pertinent to her effort. I think most readers will be interested in this background information to her story, and including it here makes it easy for them. Other opinions? ( SEC ( talk) 14:01, 11 June 2010 (UTC))
Okay, I know she's allegedly missing or in distress, but why does it give a date of death on the infobox? Fixing that unless someone can verify they've found her dead. Thorns Among Our Leaves ( talk) 20:04, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Right now, Abby lost internet and phone connections a few hours ago. She has manually activated her EPIRB, so we can be almost certain she isn't fully incapacitated, just in some distress. With the EPIRB, we know exactly where she is likely to be. It might take a few days to reach there, but it is far too soon to consider her "missing" or worse. ( SEC ( talk) 04:28, 11 June 2010 (UTC))
I am writing about the sentence 'airborne searchers spotted her stranded boat.' 'Stranded' is an odd choice of words since it literally means 'beached' or 'run agrournd.' As the nearest land is several hundred miles away, I submit that she is not stranded. I suggest the word 'disabled' be substituted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petesally ( talk • contribs) 22:11, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I suggest there be a separate section with more factual detail of the rescue now that most of that is known at least up to Abby's own blog update from on board the Ile De La Reunion. The complex co-ordination effort and detailed chronology is worthy of being permanently recorded rather than continually overwritten to show only the current status. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pargy ( talk • contribs) 15:52, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Having read trough the entire page i notice that most parts of this page detail the planning, equipment and voyage of this record attempt, with only a very minor part detailing Abby herself. I therefor wonder if the current title "Abby Sunderland" is the correct title for the page since it is not a biography about her, but rather a description of a world record attempt. Par BLP1E i would argue that the current page should be moved to a title that displays it is an event, such as "Abby Sunderland 2010 circumnavigation attempt" or a similar title (Feel free to suggest a good title, I'm not particularly good at creating them). The current Abby Sunderland title should just redirect to the event page itself, until she received significant coverage to pass 1E and warrant an own biographical article. Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs) 17:52, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
If there is any renaming, it should be to Abigail Sunderland, since that is her full name and the name by which her father has been referring to her in the media. -- Crunch ( talk) 18:24, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
This article is a violation of BLP1E because Abby is known only for one event. However, Abby is in the news quite a bit, albeit only in the context of the failed journey. Abby is getting a lot of site visits on Wikipedia. It is reasonable from a logic standpoint (not a rules standpoint) to keep the Abby article.
This may show that the BLP1E policy is too strongly worded. Suomi Finland 2009 ( talk) 20:06, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Please allow me to quote WP:BLP1E: "Merely being in the news does not imply someone should be the subject of a Wikipedia article." I propose to wait until she successfully complete some noteworthy feat before dedicating her an entire article. Until now she seems to be a would-be sailing celebrity, but the future has not arrived yet. Aldo L ( talk) 22:18, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
The reference to "youngest to sail solo around Cape Horn" cites Abby's blog page, which appears to be posted by her parents, or blog editor, with no factual basis or verified info which would support the claim. 2bsa1l1ng ( talk) 10:05, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}} This goes back to the lack of any evidence of training or experience... "She trained in ocean sailing with experienced sailors" (under 2010 circumnavigation attempt) is mere heresay Consider deletion or at minimum [citation needed] Vtamal ( talk) 13:35, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
"On June 10, 2010 while sailing in heavy seas and high winds" -- isn't it the other way around, i.e. "while sailing in high seas and heavy winds"? Consider fixing? Tomatensaft ( talk) 11:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
The assertion that 2,000 miles is almost the range limit of an Airbus A330-300 is wrong, as the Wikipedia entry itself shows. It would be more accurate to add something along the lines of (almost to the limit of its fuel range allowing for the need to conduct flyovers of the stricken vessel and return to Perth with a safe margin of fuel left).-- Pargy ( talk) 16:36, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
She's on a French patrol boat and meant to be in Réunion by tomorrow morning (AP). Gwen Gale ( talk) 13:34, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
I am troubled by the addition of "Australian taxpayers have been forced to pay for Sunderland's rescue." That's not quite what the cited sources are saying. None of the sources use the word "forced" WP:NPOV. They are saying that Australia won't be able to bill for it's portion of the rescue, and therefore taxpayers will foot the bill. And Australia isn't footing the entire bill, the actual rescue ship was sent from the French territory of La Reunion. I read the tone of the sources as more "Mr Albanese said the episode proved Australia was a world leader in search and rescue." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sec906 ( talk • contribs) 11:39, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm glad we're hashing this out here rather than via edits to the main article; it is a controversial topic. I suggest that before editing the article, we propose and edit the Reaction section here on the TP to reach a consensus. ( SEC ( talk) 14:44, 13 June 2010 (UTC))
{{
Helpme}}
(
Comment removed) --
75.47.134.164 (
talk)
22:02, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
On December 21, 2010, I added the {{ Use mdy dates}} to this article and it has been removed twice by anonymous editors (probably one person) who seem to be very interested in single-handed sailors and who have the following IP addresses:
This article uses Month Day Year (for example, January 13, 2011) format and there is no reason to remove the notice. I would like to kindly ask that this template be left in the article. — Diiscool ( talk) 22:56, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
It seems that we're going through a lot of different ideas of the infobox photo. At the moment, the main frontrunners appear to be:
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Along with a cropped version of Option 1. I admit to a preference for Option 4, but I think this needs to be settled, as at the moment we have three portrait shots in the article, and one picture with another person as the infobox pic. :) - Bilby ( talk) 04:55, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
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The domain abbysunderland.com as now been taken over by a shady Japanese balding cure. I'm going to remove it. - Entrybreak ( talk) 01:48, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I borrowed liberally from the Jessica Watson entry for additions to this article. I like the idea of having a parallel structure for Abby's entry, and the historic background information for both is much the same. There is lots more info that could fill out these sections. It might be nice to have something with the "Other record breaking attempts" section from the Zac Sunderland article duplicated across all of these entries. ( SEC ( talk) 16:48, 24 January 2010 (UTC))
I am reverting the good faith change by BIL regarding the expected completion. The cited, and current, article states Sunderland will finish in July. Sunderland's website states she will complete in June. If you think that information to be incorrect, please cite a current reliable source. According to the guidelines, "Wikipedia does not publish original research." ( SEC ( talk) 20:37, 3 May 2010 (UTC))
I and others have reverted repeated anonymous edits to the "Planning and preparation" section of this article. Today, I requested temporary semi-protection of the article but was denied because "not enough recent disruptive activity to justify protection." The edits that have been made do not follow Wikipedia policies regarding circular citation of Wikipedia articles as sources, non-neutral point of view, and no original research. The repeated edits also use words to avoid such as "impressive," "passionately," and "fearsome."
I do not wish to engage in an edit war so I hope others will help to patrol this issue. I also hope that we can get semi-protection for the article.
— Diiscool ( talk) 16:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
I disagree completely. With the 20/20 show aired Friday night 6/4/2010 many questions are being asked about all the young circumnavigators. While Watson's qualifications are clearly listed, Sunderland's qualifications do not appear to be available or are nonexistent. If the latter is the case, then that needs to be stated. In either case, the Sunderlands or their representatives such as Scott Lurie http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showuser=43488 need to be given the opportunity to respond. Don't sweep this important factor under the rug just because you can't make the two girls "look the same" on their preparation. Send some emails rather than water it down. BTW, the word: "impressive," "passionately," and "fearsome." appear in the actual reference. Vtamal ( talk) 18:12, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
{{geodata-check}}
The coordinates need the following fixes:
173.55.84.184 ( talk) 03:14, 11 June 2010 (UTC) This position is about 300 miles NNW of her reported EPIRB position this morning at the time the EPIRB was activated (40.513s 74.457e) and one hour prior when she last reported her GPS position by radio. (40.50s 74.40e. She has been drifting at 1 knot toward the northwest for the past 12 hours.
I removed the follow from the page:
Sail-World.com reported that the "latest word from Team Abby is that the boat is drifting backwards at around 1 knot. This indicates that no sails are active and that the yacht is not in an upright position."
This is incorrect in many ways. First, I checked Sail-World.com and could not find this quote, it may be there somewhere, but it is still incorrect. Second, it is absolutely impossible to know if the boat is not upright based on the EPIRB signals, visual contact will be the only way to determine this. Third, the only thing we know is the speed and direction of the EPIRBs, NOT of the boat, it is impossible to know if the beacons are on the boat or on a liferaft. Fourth, "backwards" makes no sense, if speed and direction of the EPIRBS are to be included, use a compass bearing, or general direction (ie towards africa, or SSW), "backwards" has little to know meaning. Russeasby ( talk) 03:23, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Well she was just found, UPRIGHT though sans mast. As I said, Sail-World.com was flat out incorrect and should have been remained removed. Russeasby ( talk) 06:35, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I searched on Google Earth and found the Kerguelen Islands located Southwest of Australia rather than Southeast. That should make the island easier to locate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FastJet920 ( talk • contribs) 23:28, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Gwen Gale, thanks for the many good edits here, especially cleaning up some of mine. I wonder about one though, in which you removed my edit that the closest ship was 400 miles (644km) away with the comment "it was not the nearest ship at the time of the event, the Kerguelen islands are much closer)" SailWorld.com reports her position as lat 34.885931 S, long 74.53125 E, which is 1685km from the Kerguelen islands according to Google maps. ( SEC ( talk) 00:40, 11 June 2010 (UTC))
Thanks, Gwen. One other edit, you removed the statement on wind speed of 35kn with the comment "winds were higher" The 35kn speed I entered is reported in Abby's current blog entry "The wind had subsided to around 35 knots" and also in the ABC news article "Abby was in 20-25 foot waves at the time of last contact, with 35-knot winds". Where did you see that it was higher? ( SEC ( talk) 01:11, 11 June 2010 (UTC))
Is it really necessary to include this section into the biographical article? The majority of the content in this table has no direct relation to the subject of the article itself, and is therefor more suited for a separate page detailing young solo navigations. Equally i would point out that this table is included in every page mentioned in the table - if something has to be updated it must be done so in each and every table. At the very least it would seem sensible to store it on a separate page and transclude it instead. Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs) 09:39, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Anyone wnat to have a go at copying or writing a F/U rationale for this? [2]. – Moondyne 06:36, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
{{geodata-check}}
The coordinates need the following fixes:
According to Scott Lurie of ScottsMarineServices.com (SMSScott) a member of Team Abby See: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=102689&view=findpost&p=2879470 Abby's first reported EPIRB position from the USCG was: 40.513s 74.457e The position drifted 12 miles in the first 12 hours @ 64 degree true 72.150.140.133 ( talk) 04:47, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
It seems like it would be most useful to have in the article the coordinates for her position when the EPIRBs were activated, or as close as we can get. The article says "current position" which is going to keep changing. Does anyone have the coords for the EPIRB activation? — Diiscool ( talk) 15:47, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I feel the transcluded table for the Youngest Circumnavigator should be left on this page. Clearly, Sunderland's entire attempt was to be included among this group of people. Though she was not successful, it is still very pertinent to her effort. I think most readers will be interested in this background information to her story, and including it here makes it easy for them. Other opinions? ( SEC ( talk) 14:01, 11 June 2010 (UTC))
Okay, I know she's allegedly missing or in distress, but why does it give a date of death on the infobox? Fixing that unless someone can verify they've found her dead. Thorns Among Our Leaves ( talk) 20:04, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
Right now, Abby lost internet and phone connections a few hours ago. She has manually activated her EPIRB, so we can be almost certain she isn't fully incapacitated, just in some distress. With the EPIRB, we know exactly where she is likely to be. It might take a few days to reach there, but it is far too soon to consider her "missing" or worse. ( SEC ( talk) 04:28, 11 June 2010 (UTC))
I am writing about the sentence 'airborne searchers spotted her stranded boat.' 'Stranded' is an odd choice of words since it literally means 'beached' or 'run agrournd.' As the nearest land is several hundred miles away, I submit that she is not stranded. I suggest the word 'disabled' be substituted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petesally ( talk • contribs) 22:11, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I suggest there be a separate section with more factual detail of the rescue now that most of that is known at least up to Abby's own blog update from on board the Ile De La Reunion. The complex co-ordination effort and detailed chronology is worthy of being permanently recorded rather than continually overwritten to show only the current status. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pargy ( talk • contribs) 15:52, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Having read trough the entire page i notice that most parts of this page detail the planning, equipment and voyage of this record attempt, with only a very minor part detailing Abby herself. I therefor wonder if the current title "Abby Sunderland" is the correct title for the page since it is not a biography about her, but rather a description of a world record attempt. Par BLP1E i would argue that the current page should be moved to a title that displays it is an event, such as "Abby Sunderland 2010 circumnavigation attempt" or a similar title (Feel free to suggest a good title, I'm not particularly good at creating them). The current Abby Sunderland title should just redirect to the event page itself, until she received significant coverage to pass 1E and warrant an own biographical article. Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs) 17:52, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
If there is any renaming, it should be to Abigail Sunderland, since that is her full name and the name by which her father has been referring to her in the media. -- Crunch ( talk) 18:24, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
This article is a violation of BLP1E because Abby is known only for one event. However, Abby is in the news quite a bit, albeit only in the context of the failed journey. Abby is getting a lot of site visits on Wikipedia. It is reasonable from a logic standpoint (not a rules standpoint) to keep the Abby article.
This may show that the BLP1E policy is too strongly worded. Suomi Finland 2009 ( talk) 20:06, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Please allow me to quote WP:BLP1E: "Merely being in the news does not imply someone should be the subject of a Wikipedia article." I propose to wait until she successfully complete some noteworthy feat before dedicating her an entire article. Until now she seems to be a would-be sailing celebrity, but the future has not arrived yet. Aldo L ( talk) 22:18, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
The reference to "youngest to sail solo around Cape Horn" cites Abby's blog page, which appears to be posted by her parents, or blog editor, with no factual basis or verified info which would support the claim. 2bsa1l1ng ( talk) 10:05, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}} This goes back to the lack of any evidence of training or experience... "She trained in ocean sailing with experienced sailors" (under 2010 circumnavigation attempt) is mere heresay Consider deletion or at minimum [citation needed] Vtamal ( talk) 13:35, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
"On June 10, 2010 while sailing in heavy seas and high winds" -- isn't it the other way around, i.e. "while sailing in high seas and heavy winds"? Consider fixing? Tomatensaft ( talk) 11:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
The assertion that 2,000 miles is almost the range limit of an Airbus A330-300 is wrong, as the Wikipedia entry itself shows. It would be more accurate to add something along the lines of (almost to the limit of its fuel range allowing for the need to conduct flyovers of the stricken vessel and return to Perth with a safe margin of fuel left).-- Pargy ( talk) 16:36, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
She's on a French patrol boat and meant to be in Réunion by tomorrow morning (AP). Gwen Gale ( talk) 13:34, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
I am troubled by the addition of "Australian taxpayers have been forced to pay for Sunderland's rescue." That's not quite what the cited sources are saying. None of the sources use the word "forced" WP:NPOV. They are saying that Australia won't be able to bill for it's portion of the rescue, and therefore taxpayers will foot the bill. And Australia isn't footing the entire bill, the actual rescue ship was sent from the French territory of La Reunion. I read the tone of the sources as more "Mr Albanese said the episode proved Australia was a world leader in search and rescue." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sec906 ( talk • contribs) 11:39, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm glad we're hashing this out here rather than via edits to the main article; it is a controversial topic. I suggest that before editing the article, we propose and edit the Reaction section here on the TP to reach a consensus. ( SEC ( talk) 14:44, 13 June 2010 (UTC))
{{
Helpme}}
(
Comment removed) --
75.47.134.164 (
talk)
22:02, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
On December 21, 2010, I added the {{ Use mdy dates}} to this article and it has been removed twice by anonymous editors (probably one person) who seem to be very interested in single-handed sailors and who have the following IP addresses:
This article uses Month Day Year (for example, January 13, 2011) format and there is no reason to remove the notice. I would like to kindly ask that this template be left in the article. — Diiscool ( talk) 22:56, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
It seems that we're going through a lot of different ideas of the infobox photo. At the moment, the main frontrunners appear to be:
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Along with a cropped version of Option 1. I admit to a preference for Option 4, but I think this needs to be settled, as at the moment we have three portrait shots in the article, and one picture with another person as the infobox pic. :) - Bilby ( talk) 04:55, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Abigail Sunderland.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 08:37, 8 October 2011 (UTC) |
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
Abby Sunderland. Please take a moment to review
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:11, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:08, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:40, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
The domain abbysunderland.com as now been taken over by a shady Japanese balding cure. I'm going to remove it. - Entrybreak ( talk) 01:48, 8 September 2017 (UTC)