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Purplebackpack89, Can you please stop edit warring on this FA and DISCUSS? Thank you - SchroCat ( talk) 11:29, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Yesterday, I noticed the characters section...well, didn't have much information about the characters, except for Scrooge. Several of the characters have their own Wikipedia articles, so I added one-sentence descriptions (largely summaries of their articles) of them with links to their articles. Fred doesn't have his own article, so his is longer.
Hope everybody's OK with that. p b p 11:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
The information I added about the characters is easily sourced from the articles on the characters themselves- It needs to be sourced here too. Tim O'Doherty ( talk) 12:09, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Bob Cratchit is Scrooge's overworked and underpaid clerkto the character section, but all of that is stated much earlier in the article with
[h]e turns away two men seeking a donation to provide food and heating for the poor and only grudgingly allows his overworked, underpaid clerk, Bob Cratchit, Christmas Day off with pay to conform to the social custom. also with
Jacob Marley is Scrooge's former business partner, dead seven years at the outset of the story. He is depicted as a ghost wearing the chain he forged in a life of making money while being indifferent to the poorwhen that same information is provided much earlier with the lines
... seven years after the death of Ebenezer Scrooge's business partner, Jacob Marleyand
[t]hat night Scrooge is visited at home by Marley's ghost, who wanders the Earth entwined by heavy chains and money boxes forged during a lifetime of greed and selfishness. I suppose you could add the words 'and indifference to the poor' to that sentence, but is it necessary? I hardly need mention that the Ghosts of Christmas are also covered much earlier in the article and in far greater detail than the terse
... three spirits who visit Scrooge to help him realize the error of his waysdescription provided. There are also prosaic issues, such as
... who suffers from a treatable yet potentially-fatal ailment left untreated due to Bob's poverty. The awkward repetitiveness of 'treatable' and 'untreated' stick out, there should not be a hyphen for potentially fatal (the adverb describes the adjective, not the noun), and 'suffers' might be questionable encyclopedic tone. I don't doubt the good faith intent, but I don't see the edit as an improvement in totality. There may be elements that could be incorporated elsewhere, such as the aforementioned
indifference to the poorphrase, but that's up for discussion. Mr rnddude ( talk) 12:08, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Purplebackpack89, I disagree with you, but before I get to that, please note that Edit Warring is prohibited on Wikipedia. First, I disagree that a list of characters is required for a book article in this encyclopedia. This is an FA article, which means that a large group of experienced Wikipedians reviewed and commented on it in detail, and they believed that the text was comprehensive. So, it should be obvious to you that if you wish to add a whole new section to the article; you need to discuss it first on the Talk page (and certainly not Edit War about it). Second, the characters are, of course, described in the plot section. Importing unreferenced descriptions of the characters (from less well developed Wikipedia articles) is not helpful -- if they are important to the book, the necessary descriptions should be in the plot section. Third, as Mr rnddude noted above, your proposals are problematic in other ways. See also WP:UNDUE. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 20:34, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
The paragraph “beloved sister Fan, who died young while giving birth to Fred” is a common assumption based from the 1951 film adaptation. In the book, the cause of her death is not mentioned, the ghost simply saying “she died a woman”. This could be changed to “late beloved sister Fan, the mother of Fred”. In addition, the paragraph, “Scrooge, upset by hearing Belle's description of the man that he has become” could be changed to “Scrooge, upset at what losing his engagement to Belle cost him”, as Dickens makes it clear in the writing that Scrooge is upset over the thought that Belle’s children could have been his. 92.17.199.182 ( talk) 14:20, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Dickens writes, that when Scrooge sees Belle’s children, “W]hen he thought that such another creature, quite as graceful and as full of promise, might have called him father, and been a spring-time in the haggard winter of his life, his sight grew very dim indeed.” 92.17.199.182 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:16, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Manning that Dickens might've recovered some dough from them, or that their sales cut into legitimate sales?
Dickens inspired those traditions, you say, but not till later (i.e. not via this story)? But it also says these very "modern Western" traditions influenced his writing of the story? That paragraph seems like a kangaroo jumping into its own pouch. – AndyFielding ( talk) 04:33, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
A Christmas Carol article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 90 days
![]() |
![]() | A Christmas Carol is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on December 25, 2018. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Purplebackpack89, Can you please stop edit warring on this FA and DISCUSS? Thank you - SchroCat ( talk) 11:29, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Yesterday, I noticed the characters section...well, didn't have much information about the characters, except for Scrooge. Several of the characters have their own Wikipedia articles, so I added one-sentence descriptions (largely summaries of their articles) of them with links to their articles. Fred doesn't have his own article, so his is longer.
Hope everybody's OK with that. p b p 11:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
The information I added about the characters is easily sourced from the articles on the characters themselves- It needs to be sourced here too. Tim O'Doherty ( talk) 12:09, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Bob Cratchit is Scrooge's overworked and underpaid clerkto the character section, but all of that is stated much earlier in the article with
[h]e turns away two men seeking a donation to provide food and heating for the poor and only grudgingly allows his overworked, underpaid clerk, Bob Cratchit, Christmas Day off with pay to conform to the social custom. also with
Jacob Marley is Scrooge's former business partner, dead seven years at the outset of the story. He is depicted as a ghost wearing the chain he forged in a life of making money while being indifferent to the poorwhen that same information is provided much earlier with the lines
... seven years after the death of Ebenezer Scrooge's business partner, Jacob Marleyand
[t]hat night Scrooge is visited at home by Marley's ghost, who wanders the Earth entwined by heavy chains and money boxes forged during a lifetime of greed and selfishness. I suppose you could add the words 'and indifference to the poor' to that sentence, but is it necessary? I hardly need mention that the Ghosts of Christmas are also covered much earlier in the article and in far greater detail than the terse
... three spirits who visit Scrooge to help him realize the error of his waysdescription provided. There are also prosaic issues, such as
... who suffers from a treatable yet potentially-fatal ailment left untreated due to Bob's poverty. The awkward repetitiveness of 'treatable' and 'untreated' stick out, there should not be a hyphen for potentially fatal (the adverb describes the adjective, not the noun), and 'suffers' might be questionable encyclopedic tone. I don't doubt the good faith intent, but I don't see the edit as an improvement in totality. There may be elements that could be incorporated elsewhere, such as the aforementioned
indifference to the poorphrase, but that's up for discussion. Mr rnddude ( talk) 12:08, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
Purplebackpack89, I disagree with you, but before I get to that, please note that Edit Warring is prohibited on Wikipedia. First, I disagree that a list of characters is required for a book article in this encyclopedia. This is an FA article, which means that a large group of experienced Wikipedians reviewed and commented on it in detail, and they believed that the text was comprehensive. So, it should be obvious to you that if you wish to add a whole new section to the article; you need to discuss it first on the Talk page (and certainly not Edit War about it). Second, the characters are, of course, described in the plot section. Importing unreferenced descriptions of the characters (from less well developed Wikipedia articles) is not helpful -- if they are important to the book, the necessary descriptions should be in the plot section. Third, as Mr rnddude noted above, your proposals are problematic in other ways. See also WP:UNDUE. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 20:34, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
The paragraph “beloved sister Fan, who died young while giving birth to Fred” is a common assumption based from the 1951 film adaptation. In the book, the cause of her death is not mentioned, the ghost simply saying “she died a woman”. This could be changed to “late beloved sister Fan, the mother of Fred”. In addition, the paragraph, “Scrooge, upset by hearing Belle's description of the man that he has become” could be changed to “Scrooge, upset at what losing his engagement to Belle cost him”, as Dickens makes it clear in the writing that Scrooge is upset over the thought that Belle’s children could have been his. 92.17.199.182 ( talk) 14:20, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Dickens writes, that when Scrooge sees Belle’s children, “W]hen he thought that such another creature, quite as graceful and as full of promise, might have called him father, and been a spring-time in the haggard winter of his life, his sight grew very dim indeed.” 92.17.199.182 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:16, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Manning that Dickens might've recovered some dough from them, or that their sales cut into legitimate sales?
Dickens inspired those traditions, you say, but not till later (i.e. not via this story)? But it also says these very "modern Western" traditions influenced his writing of the story? That paragraph seems like a kangaroo jumping into its own pouch. – AndyFielding ( talk) 04:33, 28 December 2023 (UTC)