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Reviewer: Starstriker7 ( talk · contribs) 19:41, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I'll do this review. -- Starstriker7( Talk) 19:41, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.
Disambiguations: none found.
Linkrot: none found. Jezhotwells ( talk) 13:08, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Hello! Lfstevens got occupied with the May copyedit drive, so I said I'd take over on copyediting this one. Allens ( talk | contribs) 10:44, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Toll collection system is in place all along the route between Kanfanar and tunnel Učka, but everything east of Rogovići (except tunnel Učka) is toll-free. For instance, if you were to drive from Kanfanar to Rogovići you would be issued a toll ticket at Kanfanar toll station, which would be collected at Rogovići exit and you would pay 8.00 kuna for the privilege (assuming you were driving a passenger car). If you were to proceed further down to, say Cerovlje, the ticket would be collected at Cerovlje exit instead but it would still cost you 8.00 kuna. Cutting the trip length short at Žminj (ahead of Rogovići) would reduce cost to 3.00 kuna, but travelling full length of the motorway would raise the bill to 36.00 kuna. Now the funny part: if you were to enter the motorway at Rogovići and exit at Vranja (applies to any other entrance/exit combination in between those two) you would be issued the ticket at Rogovići, the ticket would be collected at Vranja and you would be waved off to move along as charges do not apply to that part of the road.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:23, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Indeed the public loan was made and bonds were issued - that was normal practice in Yugoslavia regardless of communist rule. Such loans and bonds were used to finance large construction works, this is an example of such a bond for loan used to finance reconstruction of Skopje after 1963 earthquake. Source #16 specifically mentions the loan, but I'll see if I can find more details on the bonds in other sources.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:39, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Veprinac is a separate settlement ( see p.109) within territory administered by the city of Opatija located slightly inland. I am not that familiar with contents of Opatija article, yet motorway exits in Croatia are named by legislation, and the one just to the east of Učka Tunnel is officially called Veprinac.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 00:12, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
The expressway referred to here is a controlled-access highway as it had no access to adjacent property or roads except through grade separated intersections (the only at-grade intersection is the Opatija exit, controlled by traffic lights), the road is reserved for specific types of transport (no bicycles, pedestrians etc.) and width/alignment/plan of the road is designed for 130kph+ speeds (although in practice the speed limit is lower because of the two-lane design - when an additional carriageway is completed, e.g. Kanfanar-Rogovići, the speed limit is increased to 130kph or so with no modification of the existing carriageway. In essence, Croatian expressways lack the second carriageway (and central reservation) to become regular motorways - except for the Opatija exit at the A8. I suspect that the exit was executed at-grade because the A8 is planned to be built along a new route between Učka Tunnel and A7 north of Rijeka and the present Veprinac-Opatija-Matulji appears to be aimed at serving Opatija riviera - but at this point I have no direct source for this last claim.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:04, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
The "integrated toll system" refers to the fact that it is possible to switch between the two (A8 and A9) motorways with no toll barrier in between - entering through an A8 toll barrier and exiting through an A9 plaza. I suspect the phrase came off wrong in some way, but I did not think of another one. Similar arrangements are in place for A3/A5, and A1/A6, so the thing is not unique.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 10:56, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
The emergency lanes are absent from substantial parts of the route (there are occasional emergency lay-bys though) because the initial construction stage, i.e. expressway, does not necessarily include one as a cost-saving measure. As the expressway is upgraded to motorway standards through addition of the second carriageway, the original pavement structure is often left as-is to be widened later to accommodate an emergency lane. For instance, the A3 motorway extending from Zagreb east to border of Serbia was originally built as a regular road, onto which the second carriageway was added. The original road was resurfaced and the emergency lane added, but a significant proportion of culverts and bridges still have no emergency lane - it is added as each structure is replaced during maintenance. This situation exists since 1980s, in completely flat terrain, so yes, that's cost-saving measure.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 20:29, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Traffic counting site numbers are site identification not corresponding to kilometers, the first two digits represent Hrvatske ceste map grid square number (see p.59) and the last two digits represent counting site serial number within each of the grid squares.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 20:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
As far as the new route east of Veprinac (to Jušići on the A7, instead of Matulji where A8 and A7 currently meet) is concerned - I cannot find a source defining exactly when the proposal was made. Nonetheless, reference 23 mentions the proposed route, along with a map (p.38). The same source also says that this is still in planning stages, hence no funding was made available.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 22:09, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding BINA-ISTRA profit - for the moment I only found a report that they generated a loss of 331,000 kuna (44,000 Euro) in Jan-Sep 2007, but nothing more recent yet. On the other hand I found this piece of news that 165 million kuna (22 million Euro) government subsidy is earmarked for them in 2012. I think I remember that the subsidy pertains to lost revenue on expressway sections where no toll is charged (contrary to concession contract, on request of the government) - but I have to check that out further, I may be wrong... and I'll try to look up a more recent income statement or news report on profit or loss.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 23:09, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Exit numbers are defined by legislation. When an additional exit is designed, it is assigned a new (following) number provided it is located at the end of the motorway. If it is built in between existing exits, it is assigned the same number as the preceding exit, with a lowercase letter "a". For instance, an additional exit between exits 8 and 9 is 8a. If another exit were built in the same motorway section (between exits 8 and 9), it would be designated 8b and so forth. A similar situation exists along the A3.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 20:11, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding what settlements/road numbers are actually signposted along motorways: Those markings are generally very extensive along Croatian motorways. I cannot honestly say that each one of those is positively signposted (at least until the next time I drive there) but the directional signage along the motorways consists of gantry signs like this normally listing up to three destinations. That type of sign is preceded by two additional roadside signs, one depicting pretty much the same thing, and another listing as many as ten destinations served by a specific exit (as well as an additional sign showing exit name and number). Road numbers are always shown on more recent signs (posted within past three years or so), so chances are A8 carries those as the motorway upgrade would require change from blue background signs to green background ones. Unfortunately, short of driving there and taking photos myself I have no way to back this up right now.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 23:15, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Markings "istok" (east) or "zapad" (west) are normally used throughout Croatian motorway system for multiple exits serving the same city - the same situation exists near Zagreb and Slavonski Brod on the A3.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 23:17, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Učka Tunnel chainage marks the center of the tunnel. This appears to be an alternative to marking the of the beginning and the end of tunnels, bridges and viaducts acceptable to WP:HWY.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 23:19, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
There are two toll plazas, one at each end of the tunnel, charging toll to traffic entering the tunnel - this arrangement is designed to avoid queues forming inside the tunnel, so interpretations in the RJL are correct.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 23:21, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
At the Kanfanar interchange, vehicles leaving the A8 may switch to A9 or default to D303. Ž5077 is accessed via a short stretch of D303 actually connecting to the interchange. The D303 article situation is a bit simplified. According to Tele Atlas data the exits are marked as follows -- A9 southbound: Pula; A9 northbound: Umag/Poreč; D303: Rovinj/Kanfanar-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:02, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
At Žminj IC, [http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=872592&page=282 signs] indicate exit for (1) Labin, Barban and Žminj; (2) Sveti Petar u Šumi and Svetvinčenat - that's what can be seen on photos of two traffic signs ahead of the exit - there may be more, but this is the verifiable minimum. Unfortunately, the photo was taken before the motorway upgrade though (blue sign).-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
[http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=872592&page=325 Here] are some photos taken before the Rogovići-Kanfanar motorway section opened - there's a good shot of the last (gantry) sign indicating Ž5190 road number.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:43, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
According to Tele Atlas data, at Matulji interchange, southbound A7 is signposted as Rijeka/Zagreb/Split and northbound A7 is signposted as Ljubljana/Trieste.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 16:16, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
D48 serves as the western approach to Pazin, while Ž5190 runs from the interchange to the opposite direction, towards Žminj and Vodnjan, parallel to the motorway.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 16:48, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Since D64 does not have a direct contact with the motorway, i believe it is not signposted on the motorway itself.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 16:50, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Motorway rest area cafés, unlike restaurants, do not serve meals, one may buy sandwiches or snacks normally sold in stores.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 18:39, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding map content used as sourcing, the same issue came up in case of Ontario Highway 96 DYK nomination when use of such sources was determined as acceptable per Wikipedia:Using maps and similar sources in wikipedia articles. Tele Atlas provides map information for Google maps.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 18:47, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Since D66 does not have a direct contact with the motorway, i also believe it is not signposted on the motorway itself. I think I remember seeing Buzet signposted at the Lupoglav exit - and I would expect it to be signposted there since it is the most significant settlement served by the exit - but I cannot find a photo of any signposting at the exit.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 14:50, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
While it is hard for me to define where hilly terrain ends and mountainous terrain begins, the route around Pazin runs at elevations of about 300 metres asl, with the highest surrounding areas of 400 m asl, so I would say that does not qualify as mountainous terrain. Long bridges tend to be needed there to cross karst terrain features such as ponors and landforms created by rivers flowing across karst quickly eroding the surface (such as in case of Lim (Croatia)).-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 16:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Of course, Učka clearly qualifies as a mountain, but the route crosses 400 m asl isohypse less than 4 km west of the Tunnel. The route on the eastern slope of Učka, around Veprinac might well qualify as mountainous, but in terms of speed restrictions, the two-lane configuration in effect does not permit speed limits above 100 km/h, and the sections now executed as four-lane road are definitely not mountainous.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 16:56, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding the route between Učka Tunnel and Matulji interchange (and the A7), current ref #25 mentions 150 m Anđeli viaduct. The viaduct is located here. The source specifies that the section between Matulji and Lupoglav has 7.6m wide pavement and 100km/h design speed. West of the Tunnel Učka, the section contains Vela Draga and Zrinšćak viaducts (126m and 200m long respectively, located between Zrinšćak 1 and Zrinšćak 2 and Učka Tunnels. The two Zrinšćak tunnels are 200m (1) and 45m long (2) respectively (the 2nd figure is not in the source, but in the Polish video). The Lupoglav-Raša railway crossing viaduct is 380m long. Lupoglav-Cerovlje section contains 6 viaducts, 1320m long combined, Mrzlići Viaduct being the longest among those (487m). The next section of the A8 (going west) - to Rogovići - contains 3 viaducts, 949m long combined, Drazej Viaduct being the longest among those (444m). A8 west of Rogovići was designed as a single unit extending to Vodnjan (now reached along A9 south towards Pula), so statistics on that section are meaningless. Design speed for the section is specified to 100km/h, although that design predates current motorway there (minor route alterations were performed) so that's not necessarily true today. Design speeds are not specified for Lupoglav-Cerovlje and Cerovlje-Rogovići sections.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 14:49, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
This source (News portal maintained by Croatian subsidiary of the Raiffeisen Zentralbank - actual article was originally published in Novi list daily newspaper) specifies plan to build an additional interchange on the route (named Anđeli), located between Veprinac and Opatija exits.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 14:49, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
What's the definition or source for the "major junctions" in the Infobox? Thanks! Allens ( talk | contribs) 09:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
A guy buys a camera and has a great idea, if one asks wiki editors trying to piece together A8 route article... Apparently, people tape and post at youtube all sorts of things, and one of them drove from Bosiljevo interchange at the northern terminus of the A6 (Croatia) to Rijeka, and then along the A7 to Matulji interchange, kindly turning to Učka Tunnel, proceeding down entire A8 to Kanfanar and then to Pula via the A9. The only missing piece is inside the Učka Tunnel and the western Učka toll plaza (that's between the two videos), but still... The videos are played back quite faster than in real time, but I could still pause them and make out what's signposted! The videos are here and here, but all those I could interpret are in the second one. I could not read all signposts at all the exits, but this is some sort of progress. The videos were apparently taped in summer of 2011, i.e. before the A8 full-motorway section opened, any newer signs are likely to contain more information, a trend which may be observed at Žminj and Kanfanar interchanges in the video. Here we go:
The last one is a part of A9, but I included it anyway since it allows a U-turn to the A8. SLO/I/A (white oval signs with black letters) are International vehicle registration codes normally used to mark directions to nearby countries - in this case Slovenia/Italy/Austria.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 22:16, 6 June 2012 (UTC) The guy filming the trip was even kind enough to provide subtitles informing viewers when switching from one motorway to another!-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 22:18, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding Matulji interchange - I don't think there is a directional signage towards Matulji in the interchange itself (Matulji interchange itself is signposted), because the interchange does not allow vehicles to leave motorway system, i.e. one can switch from A8 to A7 or vice versa or proceed along A7 if traveling from Rijeka or Rupa border crossing. I believe Matulji could be posted at Opatija exit since that one allows vehicles to exit the A8 and it is very close to Matulji interchange and located itself in Matulji.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 22:32, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
At 11:17 in the first video, there is Veprinac exit, and Veprinac is signposted along with two other settlements, but the sign is particularly old (read: small typeface) and I cannot read that. Interestingly though, the sign indicates Pazin and Buzet ahead (instead of normally signposted Pula).-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 22:58, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
A Polish guy was kind enough to videotape driving through Učka Tunnel (duly posting at youtube here) and in between Zrinšćak 1 and 2 tunnels, Vranja exit is signposted at 4:19. The sign indicates the exit leads to Labin and Učka, and that road ahead (A8) leads to Pula, Pazin, Poreč and Buzet. At 4:39, Boljun and Učka Nature Park are signposted as served by the exit as well. At 4:43, the first set of signposted settlements is repeated, but in addition the sign indicates that the exit serves Rabac and Brestova - the latter is site of a ferry dock used by ferry service to Cres. This recording is quite shaky, but it plays back in real time so signs are much easier to make out.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 11:04, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Current ref #24 - title of the cited article indeed speaks of 250 million Kuna assigned to diverse government spending in the Istria County, and those include the 165 million subsidy, specifically noted by the article.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 20:10, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
I assume that the "French deal of the century" refers to French company Bouygues which owns a substantial stake in BINA Istra - 16% directly, plus 45% stake in BINA Fincom which in turn owns another 67% stake in BINA Istra. Buoygues does not have a majority control in the company, and state-owned Hrvatske autoceste own approximately the same stake in BINA Istra, but I suspect editor/author/someone concluded that this type of title would sell more newspapers. The article itself is written pretty objectively but I seriously doubt that this motorway really is French deal of the century. Except maybe in Croatia.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 20:26, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Managed to find a recent (2011) environmental impact study pertaining to addition of two traffic lanes to the present A8 route. I'll use that to add to the article over the weekend.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 14:35, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding the estimated cost of 300 million Euro - it seems reasonably objective when considering length of 45km making the price 6.7 million Euro per km. The cheapest km of motorways built in Croatia was on the A1, between Bosiljevo and Zadar, (approx 7.3 million Euro/km) but this particular construction project entails only one carriageway to be built. Granted, Učka Tunnel (the second tube) is bound to be expensive, but the A1 stretch includes two tunnels longer than that ( Mala Kapela Tunnel and Sveti Rok Tunnel) and quite a bit of smaller ones, plus substantial bridges. Of course, actual cost is probably unknown to experts who plan to fund this.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 17:01, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm wondering whether it would be a good idea to mark the section (other than the tunnel) where toll is currently collected (I'd say so), and if so, how. Allens ( talk | contribs) 22:40, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
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Current status: Good article |
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Starstriker7 ( talk · contribs) 19:41, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I'll do this review. -- Starstriker7( Talk) 19:41, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.
Disambiguations: none found.
Linkrot: none found. Jezhotwells ( talk) 13:08, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Hello! Lfstevens got occupied with the May copyedit drive, so I said I'd take over on copyediting this one. Allens ( talk | contribs) 10:44, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Toll collection system is in place all along the route between Kanfanar and tunnel Učka, but everything east of Rogovići (except tunnel Učka) is toll-free. For instance, if you were to drive from Kanfanar to Rogovići you would be issued a toll ticket at Kanfanar toll station, which would be collected at Rogovići exit and you would pay 8.00 kuna for the privilege (assuming you were driving a passenger car). If you were to proceed further down to, say Cerovlje, the ticket would be collected at Cerovlje exit instead but it would still cost you 8.00 kuna. Cutting the trip length short at Žminj (ahead of Rogovići) would reduce cost to 3.00 kuna, but travelling full length of the motorway would raise the bill to 36.00 kuna. Now the funny part: if you were to enter the motorway at Rogovići and exit at Vranja (applies to any other entrance/exit combination in between those two) you would be issued the ticket at Rogovići, the ticket would be collected at Vranja and you would be waved off to move along as charges do not apply to that part of the road.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:23, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Indeed the public loan was made and bonds were issued - that was normal practice in Yugoslavia regardless of communist rule. Such loans and bonds were used to finance large construction works, this is an example of such a bond for loan used to finance reconstruction of Skopje after 1963 earthquake. Source #16 specifically mentions the loan, but I'll see if I can find more details on the bonds in other sources.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:39, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Veprinac is a separate settlement ( see p.109) within territory administered by the city of Opatija located slightly inland. I am not that familiar with contents of Opatija article, yet motorway exits in Croatia are named by legislation, and the one just to the east of Učka Tunnel is officially called Veprinac.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 00:12, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
The expressway referred to here is a controlled-access highway as it had no access to adjacent property or roads except through grade separated intersections (the only at-grade intersection is the Opatija exit, controlled by traffic lights), the road is reserved for specific types of transport (no bicycles, pedestrians etc.) and width/alignment/plan of the road is designed for 130kph+ speeds (although in practice the speed limit is lower because of the two-lane design - when an additional carriageway is completed, e.g. Kanfanar-Rogovići, the speed limit is increased to 130kph or so with no modification of the existing carriageway. In essence, Croatian expressways lack the second carriageway (and central reservation) to become regular motorways - except for the Opatija exit at the A8. I suspect that the exit was executed at-grade because the A8 is planned to be built along a new route between Učka Tunnel and A7 north of Rijeka and the present Veprinac-Opatija-Matulji appears to be aimed at serving Opatija riviera - but at this point I have no direct source for this last claim.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:04, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
The "integrated toll system" refers to the fact that it is possible to switch between the two (A8 and A9) motorways with no toll barrier in between - entering through an A8 toll barrier and exiting through an A9 plaza. I suspect the phrase came off wrong in some way, but I did not think of another one. Similar arrangements are in place for A3/A5, and A1/A6, so the thing is not unique.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 10:56, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
The emergency lanes are absent from substantial parts of the route (there are occasional emergency lay-bys though) because the initial construction stage, i.e. expressway, does not necessarily include one as a cost-saving measure. As the expressway is upgraded to motorway standards through addition of the second carriageway, the original pavement structure is often left as-is to be widened later to accommodate an emergency lane. For instance, the A3 motorway extending from Zagreb east to border of Serbia was originally built as a regular road, onto which the second carriageway was added. The original road was resurfaced and the emergency lane added, but a significant proportion of culverts and bridges still have no emergency lane - it is added as each structure is replaced during maintenance. This situation exists since 1980s, in completely flat terrain, so yes, that's cost-saving measure.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 20:29, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Traffic counting site numbers are site identification not corresponding to kilometers, the first two digits represent Hrvatske ceste map grid square number (see p.59) and the last two digits represent counting site serial number within each of the grid squares.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 20:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
As far as the new route east of Veprinac (to Jušići on the A7, instead of Matulji where A8 and A7 currently meet) is concerned - I cannot find a source defining exactly when the proposal was made. Nonetheless, reference 23 mentions the proposed route, along with a map (p.38). The same source also says that this is still in planning stages, hence no funding was made available.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 22:09, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding BINA-ISTRA profit - for the moment I only found a report that they generated a loss of 331,000 kuna (44,000 Euro) in Jan-Sep 2007, but nothing more recent yet. On the other hand I found this piece of news that 165 million kuna (22 million Euro) government subsidy is earmarked for them in 2012. I think I remember that the subsidy pertains to lost revenue on expressway sections where no toll is charged (contrary to concession contract, on request of the government) - but I have to check that out further, I may be wrong... and I'll try to look up a more recent income statement or news report on profit or loss.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 23:09, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
Exit numbers are defined by legislation. When an additional exit is designed, it is assigned a new (following) number provided it is located at the end of the motorway. If it is built in between existing exits, it is assigned the same number as the preceding exit, with a lowercase letter "a". For instance, an additional exit between exits 8 and 9 is 8a. If another exit were built in the same motorway section (between exits 8 and 9), it would be designated 8b and so forth. A similar situation exists along the A3.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 20:11, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding what settlements/road numbers are actually signposted along motorways: Those markings are generally very extensive along Croatian motorways. I cannot honestly say that each one of those is positively signposted (at least until the next time I drive there) but the directional signage along the motorways consists of gantry signs like this normally listing up to three destinations. That type of sign is preceded by two additional roadside signs, one depicting pretty much the same thing, and another listing as many as ten destinations served by a specific exit (as well as an additional sign showing exit name and number). Road numbers are always shown on more recent signs (posted within past three years or so), so chances are A8 carries those as the motorway upgrade would require change from blue background signs to green background ones. Unfortunately, short of driving there and taking photos myself I have no way to back this up right now.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 23:15, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Markings "istok" (east) or "zapad" (west) are normally used throughout Croatian motorway system for multiple exits serving the same city - the same situation exists near Zagreb and Slavonski Brod on the A3.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 23:17, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Učka Tunnel chainage marks the center of the tunnel. This appears to be an alternative to marking the of the beginning and the end of tunnels, bridges and viaducts acceptable to WP:HWY.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 23:19, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
There are two toll plazas, one at each end of the tunnel, charging toll to traffic entering the tunnel - this arrangement is designed to avoid queues forming inside the tunnel, so interpretations in the RJL are correct.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 23:21, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
At the Kanfanar interchange, vehicles leaving the A8 may switch to A9 or default to D303. Ž5077 is accessed via a short stretch of D303 actually connecting to the interchange. The D303 article situation is a bit simplified. According to Tele Atlas data the exits are marked as follows -- A9 southbound: Pula; A9 northbound: Umag/Poreč; D303: Rovinj/Kanfanar-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:02, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
At Žminj IC, [http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=872592&page=282 signs] indicate exit for (1) Labin, Barban and Žminj; (2) Sveti Petar u Šumi and Svetvinčenat - that's what can be seen on photos of two traffic signs ahead of the exit - there may be more, but this is the verifiable minimum. Unfortunately, the photo was taken before the motorway upgrade though (blue sign).-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
[http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=872592&page=325 Here] are some photos taken before the Rogovići-Kanfanar motorway section opened - there's a good shot of the last (gantry) sign indicating Ž5190 road number.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 13:43, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
According to Tele Atlas data, at Matulji interchange, southbound A7 is signposted as Rijeka/Zagreb/Split and northbound A7 is signposted as Ljubljana/Trieste.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 16:16, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
D48 serves as the western approach to Pazin, while Ž5190 runs from the interchange to the opposite direction, towards Žminj and Vodnjan, parallel to the motorway.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 16:48, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Since D64 does not have a direct contact with the motorway, i believe it is not signposted on the motorway itself.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 16:50, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Motorway rest area cafés, unlike restaurants, do not serve meals, one may buy sandwiches or snacks normally sold in stores.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 18:39, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding map content used as sourcing, the same issue came up in case of Ontario Highway 96 DYK nomination when use of such sources was determined as acceptable per Wikipedia:Using maps and similar sources in wikipedia articles. Tele Atlas provides map information for Google maps.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 18:47, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Since D66 does not have a direct contact with the motorway, i also believe it is not signposted on the motorway itself. I think I remember seeing Buzet signposted at the Lupoglav exit - and I would expect it to be signposted there since it is the most significant settlement served by the exit - but I cannot find a photo of any signposting at the exit.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 14:50, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
While it is hard for me to define where hilly terrain ends and mountainous terrain begins, the route around Pazin runs at elevations of about 300 metres asl, with the highest surrounding areas of 400 m asl, so I would say that does not qualify as mountainous terrain. Long bridges tend to be needed there to cross karst terrain features such as ponors and landforms created by rivers flowing across karst quickly eroding the surface (such as in case of Lim (Croatia)).-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 16:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Of course, Učka clearly qualifies as a mountain, but the route crosses 400 m asl isohypse less than 4 km west of the Tunnel. The route on the eastern slope of Učka, around Veprinac might well qualify as mountainous, but in terms of speed restrictions, the two-lane configuration in effect does not permit speed limits above 100 km/h, and the sections now executed as four-lane road are definitely not mountainous.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 16:56, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding the route between Učka Tunnel and Matulji interchange (and the A7), current ref #25 mentions 150 m Anđeli viaduct. The viaduct is located here. The source specifies that the section between Matulji and Lupoglav has 7.6m wide pavement and 100km/h design speed. West of the Tunnel Učka, the section contains Vela Draga and Zrinšćak viaducts (126m and 200m long respectively, located between Zrinšćak 1 and Zrinšćak 2 and Učka Tunnels. The two Zrinšćak tunnels are 200m (1) and 45m long (2) respectively (the 2nd figure is not in the source, but in the Polish video). The Lupoglav-Raša railway crossing viaduct is 380m long. Lupoglav-Cerovlje section contains 6 viaducts, 1320m long combined, Mrzlići Viaduct being the longest among those (487m). The next section of the A8 (going west) - to Rogovići - contains 3 viaducts, 949m long combined, Drazej Viaduct being the longest among those (444m). A8 west of Rogovići was designed as a single unit extending to Vodnjan (now reached along A9 south towards Pula), so statistics on that section are meaningless. Design speed for the section is specified to 100km/h, although that design predates current motorway there (minor route alterations were performed) so that's not necessarily true today. Design speeds are not specified for Lupoglav-Cerovlje and Cerovlje-Rogovići sections.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 14:49, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
This source (News portal maintained by Croatian subsidiary of the Raiffeisen Zentralbank - actual article was originally published in Novi list daily newspaper) specifies plan to build an additional interchange on the route (named Anđeli), located between Veprinac and Opatija exits.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 14:49, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
What's the definition or source for the "major junctions" in the Infobox? Thanks! Allens ( talk | contribs) 09:49, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
A guy buys a camera and has a great idea, if one asks wiki editors trying to piece together A8 route article... Apparently, people tape and post at youtube all sorts of things, and one of them drove from Bosiljevo interchange at the northern terminus of the A6 (Croatia) to Rijeka, and then along the A7 to Matulji interchange, kindly turning to Učka Tunnel, proceeding down entire A8 to Kanfanar and then to Pula via the A9. The only missing piece is inside the Učka Tunnel and the western Učka toll plaza (that's between the two videos), but still... The videos are played back quite faster than in real time, but I could still pause them and make out what's signposted! The videos are here and here, but all those I could interpret are in the second one. I could not read all signposts at all the exits, but this is some sort of progress. The videos were apparently taped in summer of 2011, i.e. before the A8 full-motorway section opened, any newer signs are likely to contain more information, a trend which may be observed at Žminj and Kanfanar interchanges in the video. Here we go:
The last one is a part of A9, but I included it anyway since it allows a U-turn to the A8. SLO/I/A (white oval signs with black letters) are International vehicle registration codes normally used to mark directions to nearby countries - in this case Slovenia/Italy/Austria.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 22:16, 6 June 2012 (UTC) The guy filming the trip was even kind enough to provide subtitles informing viewers when switching from one motorway to another!-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 22:18, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding Matulji interchange - I don't think there is a directional signage towards Matulji in the interchange itself (Matulji interchange itself is signposted), because the interchange does not allow vehicles to leave motorway system, i.e. one can switch from A8 to A7 or vice versa or proceed along A7 if traveling from Rijeka or Rupa border crossing. I believe Matulji could be posted at Opatija exit since that one allows vehicles to exit the A8 and it is very close to Matulji interchange and located itself in Matulji.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 22:32, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
At 11:17 in the first video, there is Veprinac exit, and Veprinac is signposted along with two other settlements, but the sign is particularly old (read: small typeface) and I cannot read that. Interestingly though, the sign indicates Pazin and Buzet ahead (instead of normally signposted Pula).-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 22:58, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
A Polish guy was kind enough to videotape driving through Učka Tunnel (duly posting at youtube here) and in between Zrinšćak 1 and 2 tunnels, Vranja exit is signposted at 4:19. The sign indicates the exit leads to Labin and Učka, and that road ahead (A8) leads to Pula, Pazin, Poreč and Buzet. At 4:39, Boljun and Učka Nature Park are signposted as served by the exit as well. At 4:43, the first set of signposted settlements is repeated, but in addition the sign indicates that the exit serves Rabac and Brestova - the latter is site of a ferry dock used by ferry service to Cres. This recording is quite shaky, but it plays back in real time so signs are much easier to make out.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 11:04, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Current ref #24 - title of the cited article indeed speaks of 250 million Kuna assigned to diverse government spending in the Istria County, and those include the 165 million subsidy, specifically noted by the article.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 20:10, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
I assume that the "French deal of the century" refers to French company Bouygues which owns a substantial stake in BINA Istra - 16% directly, plus 45% stake in BINA Fincom which in turn owns another 67% stake in BINA Istra. Buoygues does not have a majority control in the company, and state-owned Hrvatske autoceste own approximately the same stake in BINA Istra, but I suspect editor/author/someone concluded that this type of title would sell more newspapers. The article itself is written pretty objectively but I seriously doubt that this motorway really is French deal of the century. Except maybe in Croatia.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 20:26, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Managed to find a recent (2011) environmental impact study pertaining to addition of two traffic lanes to the present A8 route. I'll use that to add to the article over the weekend.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 14:35, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding the estimated cost of 300 million Euro - it seems reasonably objective when considering length of 45km making the price 6.7 million Euro per km. The cheapest km of motorways built in Croatia was on the A1, between Bosiljevo and Zadar, (approx 7.3 million Euro/km) but this particular construction project entails only one carriageway to be built. Granted, Učka Tunnel (the second tube) is bound to be expensive, but the A1 stretch includes two tunnels longer than that ( Mala Kapela Tunnel and Sveti Rok Tunnel) and quite a bit of smaller ones, plus substantial bridges. Of course, actual cost is probably unknown to experts who plan to fund this.-- Tomobe03 ( talk) 17:01, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm wondering whether it would be a good idea to mark the section (other than the tunnel) where toll is currently collected (I'd say so), and if so, how. Allens ( talk | contribs) 22:40, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
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