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The major edits since July have involved copying large amounts of material from http://www.thengapattanam.net/kkhist.pdf (Liberation of the oppressed, a continuous struggle and viewable in html at Google here). Using copyright material is not permitted in Wikipedia, see WP:C. If anyone has questions, please ask here. Johnuniq ( talk) 03:34, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
I am becoming slightly concerned about the reliance on "Issac Arul Dhas G., Then Ellai Kaavalan Nesamony' as a source for this article. My reasons are, in particular order of importance:
Can anyone assist in resolving these issues? I must admit to thinking that without some sort of greater validity being established then it may be better to remove all references to it and attempt to find alternate sources. After all, if the subject of the article is genuinely notable (which, prima facie, I think he is) then there must be alternate sources for the really important bits. I would rather see trivial life details be deleted than persist with the current situation.
There is also another reason for having some doubts about the source and these relate to a rather delicate matter. I would be prepared to discuss with an admin but feel it inappropriate to discuss here without first having that conversation because I do not want to make false accusations etc. - Sitush ( talk) 23:22, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Kindly read the book by Dr.G.Issac Arul Dhas, "Then Ellai Kaavalan Nesamony" at least once before making any adverse comment like hagiography,etc. as it is not only objectionable but also unfair and amounts to height of irresponsibility and arrogance. Either you prove someone guilty or give him the benefit of doubt instead of getting prejudiced against him. And your ignorance can never be considered a bliss to suspect every other person only because he has an opposite view point, although he is of a higher social stature than you.-- Kumaripriya ( talk) 13:47, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
It was clearly given listed earlier in the 'For further reading' which was ruthlessly removed by you and your master intentionally! Kindly go through them for all those details. Please stop looking at things after wearing black glasses; You will never be able to see the real beauty in them! World history repeats itself; I think A.Nesamony's case itself is not an exception!-- Kumaripriya ( talk) 07:30, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Kindly scrutinize this page history. Some vested interest groups indulge in open vandalism of this page by distorting the facts chauvinistically. There is no more justification in asking contributors further to improve it since it may again be vandalized as was done on 11 June 2011(by 'User:Sitush' for example). He/she writes a statement of his own making and then asks for clarifications like why?, citation needed, etc. Is he/she being given with special privileges to corrupt the truth like this in Wikipedia? The worst part of it is that, he/she thinks, it is only his/her birth right to edit in Wikipedia! Moreover, he/she believes in hypercriticism, bullying, nagging, threatening, etc. against me, for quite sometime now, (kindly refer my user talk page) for writing the historical facts which are against his liking! As a matter of fact, I am yet to understand what's the true motive behind his/her actions! If some biased people indulge like this , how can decent contributors remain neutral and contribute without fear or favor? The ISBN concept is comparatively a recent phenomenon in the Indian context, particularly more so in the Indian vernacular printing & publishing industry. Majority of the published works,though big & reputed, still don't have ISBN in India even today! Also, the notion that all books with ISBN are standard books is not true either! What is more important here is the authentic & correct encyclopedic content, but certainly not the shear-display of highhandedness & arrogance of certain individuals! Kumaripriya ( talk) 00:07, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
Main article after your edits now not only lacks substance and luster, but also looks like WP:FORUM or Chains of reasons than a full-fledged Wikipedia article page due to WP:CITEKILL, WP:BOMBARD and WP:FACTS together with too many citations and references throwing WP:AGF to the wind. I am not sure whether it was intentional or not, but it certainly displays a sort of black-out based on a sarcastic hatred and nitpicking in a subtle manner. Kindly clarify the following discrepancies (don't avoid direct answers as in the past please) : 1. Specify the title and author of the book that 'triggered' your contention/suspicion and subsequently got 'blacklisted'! 2. What happened to citations of previous format and why further reading list removed? 3. Nair Service Society or Sree Narayana Dharma Paripalana Yogam have nothing to do with Marshal Nesamony but how come they appear in the article content? NSS is a caste organization established by Nairs, of Nairs and for Nairs only whereas SNDP ia a forum of only Ezhava caste people though they say 'One God, One Caste' concept. Both are apolitical outfits/groups! On the contrary, Travancore Tamil Nadu Congress (TTNC) was a political party, having ranks and files from all castes and creeds of Travancore Tamils, with nearly 14 MLAs and 2 MPs then. Hence, inclusion of NSS and SNDP seems to be irrelevant as well as improper since they have no link with Nesamony or Travancore Tamils. 4. The primary factor for the merger of Kanyakumari district with Tamil Nadu was mother tongue Tamil though there were certain secondary reasons too! The aggressive, stubburn and separatist demands of Malayalees (with slogans such as 'Kerala - the motherland of only Malayalees', 'United Keralam from Kanyakumari to Kasaragod comprising erstwhile Travancore, Cochin and Malabar princely states', etc.), forgetting the fact that Malayalam language itself was originated from ancient Tamil language, cannot be ignored either! Why all these historical facts don't find a place in your edits? :- -- Kumaripriya ( talk) 23:31, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for affirming and confirming my doubts and apprehensions pertaining to your edits on A.Nesamony page. They say that little knowledge of anything is dangerous; so one can easily assume the case with no knowledge becoming seriously dangerous. This is exactly the result of your senseless edits following two different set of rules of editing for yourself and for me. Please practise before you preach! Kindly cite sources for NSS & SNDP to justify their inclusion under the sub-heading background in this page without violating the WP:NOR. Similarly don't write plain vague statements first, then ask for reasons and citations from others; as they become WP:POV (What way you would have responded if I were doing the same like you?).
Neither a POV-problem nor a conflict of interest I have as far as furnishing the actual reason for the due formation of Kanyakumari district and its subsequent merger to Tamil Nadu is concerned. I just answered your question.You may refer to pages after your edit onwards in which you have asked why? for the formation of Kanyakumari district!
The book titled "Then Ellai Kaavalan Nesamony"(Tamil) / (meaning "Nesamony - Defender of Southern Border" in English) was written by Dr. G. Issac Arul Dhas, M.A., M.Phill., Ph.D., C.L.; was published by Nesamony Tamizhar Pathippagam, 60,C-2, Daniel Compound, Near Water Tank, Nagercoil-629 001. (Tel: +91-04652-231208); and its first copy was released by the then Union Minister for Sports and Youth Affairs, Government of India, Mr. Pon Radhakrishnan M.A., B.L., M.P. in the erstwhile B.J.P. ministry of N.D.A. on the occasion of 108th birth anniversary of Marshal Nesamony on 12th June 2002 at Allen Memorial Hall in Nagercoil. INMHO, this scholarly book gives a good record of the virtues of Nesamony without resorting to hagiography (i.e. too much praising or glorifying or idealizing or idolizing biography and thereby edifying the reader). Also it doesn't indulge in famicide against Nesamony as it happened in Wikipedia's A.Nesamony page in the name of neutrality in the past. I would like to apologize for not updating you about this book promptly due to my real world time constraints. :- -- Kumaripriya ( talk) 15:43, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks once again for confirming it. You are definitely part of a vested interest group. You already advocated to have two truths for one single event. Sorry, I neither believe in duplicity nor support the same. As far as Dr. Issac Arul Dhas is concerned, he is just an academician, a writer and a research scholar. Nesamony Tamizhar Pathippagam is a book-publisher who has published many books by various authors. The person who released the particular book is now president of the Tamil Nadu unit of B.J.P. Then how you are jumping into a prejudgement that it is a self-published unreliable source? Moreover, I don't want to have any more frank discussions with you since you have preconceived ideas about this particular topic of A. Nesamony, although your knowledge about him is a big zero. Kindly don't rape the page any more! I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink! :--- Kumaripriya ( talk) 18:40, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Go and get your designation changed at Wikipedia immediately from contributor to conspirator that would be more appropriate for you! :- -- Kumaripriya ( talk) 17:00, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
The contents of evidence-material cited above by me on 21 June 2011 has been found removed/missing now, in that external link, for which I am not responsible. Meanwhile, I may review or revoke or revert, if required as and when the occasion arises, some portions since the main article page, after your last marathon edits on 11th June 2011 coinciding with the eve of A.Nesamony's birth anniversary, lacks in substance to the standards of Wikipedia. :- -- Kumaripriya ( talk) 13:47, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I am glad that a copy of the book in question has been located at Connemara Public Library at last. I sincerely request your goodself to go through it (of course, with help from your friends, as the same is in Tamil) since the book also contains some rare informative pictures like that of the Special Commemorative Postal Envelope published at the birth centenary of Marshal Nesamony in 1995 by Government of India, the election symbol of TTNC,etc. which I am sure will be able to meet your expectations. :--- Kumaripriya ( talk) 22:49, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
The explanation furnished above has created more confusions in my mind than any clarification for the following reasons:
Thanks a lot for your kind and prompt reply, but I am still waiting and searching for the answers to my queries!
Kindly desist from removing vital historical factual information from the main page, such as Nesamony's fruitful fight against caste discrimination inside the court hall then, chairs for upper castes and stools for lower castes, as it's an important achievement by him in those days.
Being very successful both in politics and legal profession, it seems that Marshal Nesamony must have won lots of fake friends but true enemies from all walks of life including our Wikipedia. Otherwise, how come a different set of rules and yardsticks only for his page, all in the name of so-called 'controversial stuff'? :--- Kumaripriya ( talk) 13:56, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Don't expect me to be a 'mute spectator' when you deliberately want to cook-up an edit conflict situation just to silence the opposite view points, even though there exists a printed and published proof to substantiate and support the same, with some half-baked cock-n-bull stories and certain lame excuses. Also don't blame the innocent contributor for producing hard evidence that was not self-published by him or the author for their self-praises or self-publicity or flattery! Please refer to WP:BB and I am a proud Wikipedian to proclaim the truth aloud always!
Recently, there was a message from Wikipedia, while expressing deep concern & anguish, earnestly asking for the reasons why new contributors disappear fast from the edit scenario without any trace later on. Statements like 'Wikipedia is not the right place for you', frequent interference with edits of others just because they don't endorse your personal view points in the articles, scathing but sarcastic remarks over their edits although there is enough substance matter in them, unwanted issuance of threats and warnings, subtle attacks/counter-attacks, etc. will not do any good to Wikipedia but can certainly do damage to Wikipedia, by chasing away the genuine and right talents while spoiling its reputation in the long run.Don't forget that no one including you is indispensable in this world. Hence I request you not to repeat the same stunts in future, because we are not kids!
Kindly don't allow Wikipedia's article pages to be converted to that of a tabloid by needlessly concentrating and printing the gossips/sins about/of notable people as they will be of no use to others!-- Kumaripriya ( talk) 16:11, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
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This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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The major edits since July have involved copying large amounts of material from http://www.thengapattanam.net/kkhist.pdf (Liberation of the oppressed, a continuous struggle and viewable in html at Google here). Using copyright material is not permitted in Wikipedia, see WP:C. If anyone has questions, please ask here. Johnuniq ( talk) 03:34, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
I am becoming slightly concerned about the reliance on "Issac Arul Dhas G., Then Ellai Kaavalan Nesamony' as a source for this article. My reasons are, in particular order of importance:
Can anyone assist in resolving these issues? I must admit to thinking that without some sort of greater validity being established then it may be better to remove all references to it and attempt to find alternate sources. After all, if the subject of the article is genuinely notable (which, prima facie, I think he is) then there must be alternate sources for the really important bits. I would rather see trivial life details be deleted than persist with the current situation.
There is also another reason for having some doubts about the source and these relate to a rather delicate matter. I would be prepared to discuss with an admin but feel it inappropriate to discuss here without first having that conversation because I do not want to make false accusations etc. - Sitush ( talk) 23:22, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Kindly read the book by Dr.G.Issac Arul Dhas, "Then Ellai Kaavalan Nesamony" at least once before making any adverse comment like hagiography,etc. as it is not only objectionable but also unfair and amounts to height of irresponsibility and arrogance. Either you prove someone guilty or give him the benefit of doubt instead of getting prejudiced against him. And your ignorance can never be considered a bliss to suspect every other person only because he has an opposite view point, although he is of a higher social stature than you.-- Kumaripriya ( talk) 13:47, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
It was clearly given listed earlier in the 'For further reading' which was ruthlessly removed by you and your master intentionally! Kindly go through them for all those details. Please stop looking at things after wearing black glasses; You will never be able to see the real beauty in them! World history repeats itself; I think A.Nesamony's case itself is not an exception!-- Kumaripriya ( talk) 07:30, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
Kindly scrutinize this page history. Some vested interest groups indulge in open vandalism of this page by distorting the facts chauvinistically. There is no more justification in asking contributors further to improve it since it may again be vandalized as was done on 11 June 2011(by 'User:Sitush' for example). He/she writes a statement of his own making and then asks for clarifications like why?, citation needed, etc. Is he/she being given with special privileges to corrupt the truth like this in Wikipedia? The worst part of it is that, he/she thinks, it is only his/her birth right to edit in Wikipedia! Moreover, he/she believes in hypercriticism, bullying, nagging, threatening, etc. against me, for quite sometime now, (kindly refer my user talk page) for writing the historical facts which are against his liking! As a matter of fact, I am yet to understand what's the true motive behind his/her actions! If some biased people indulge like this , how can decent contributors remain neutral and contribute without fear or favor? The ISBN concept is comparatively a recent phenomenon in the Indian context, particularly more so in the Indian vernacular printing & publishing industry. Majority of the published works,though big & reputed, still don't have ISBN in India even today! Also, the notion that all books with ISBN are standard books is not true either! What is more important here is the authentic & correct encyclopedic content, but certainly not the shear-display of highhandedness & arrogance of certain individuals! Kumaripriya ( talk) 00:07, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
Main article after your edits now not only lacks substance and luster, but also looks like WP:FORUM or Chains of reasons than a full-fledged Wikipedia article page due to WP:CITEKILL, WP:BOMBARD and WP:FACTS together with too many citations and references throwing WP:AGF to the wind. I am not sure whether it was intentional or not, but it certainly displays a sort of black-out based on a sarcastic hatred and nitpicking in a subtle manner. Kindly clarify the following discrepancies (don't avoid direct answers as in the past please) : 1. Specify the title and author of the book that 'triggered' your contention/suspicion and subsequently got 'blacklisted'! 2. What happened to citations of previous format and why further reading list removed? 3. Nair Service Society or Sree Narayana Dharma Paripalana Yogam have nothing to do with Marshal Nesamony but how come they appear in the article content? NSS is a caste organization established by Nairs, of Nairs and for Nairs only whereas SNDP ia a forum of only Ezhava caste people though they say 'One God, One Caste' concept. Both are apolitical outfits/groups! On the contrary, Travancore Tamil Nadu Congress (TTNC) was a political party, having ranks and files from all castes and creeds of Travancore Tamils, with nearly 14 MLAs and 2 MPs then. Hence, inclusion of NSS and SNDP seems to be irrelevant as well as improper since they have no link with Nesamony or Travancore Tamils. 4. The primary factor for the merger of Kanyakumari district with Tamil Nadu was mother tongue Tamil though there were certain secondary reasons too! The aggressive, stubburn and separatist demands of Malayalees (with slogans such as 'Kerala - the motherland of only Malayalees', 'United Keralam from Kanyakumari to Kasaragod comprising erstwhile Travancore, Cochin and Malabar princely states', etc.), forgetting the fact that Malayalam language itself was originated from ancient Tamil language, cannot be ignored either! Why all these historical facts don't find a place in your edits? :- -- Kumaripriya ( talk) 23:31, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for affirming and confirming my doubts and apprehensions pertaining to your edits on A.Nesamony page. They say that little knowledge of anything is dangerous; so one can easily assume the case with no knowledge becoming seriously dangerous. This is exactly the result of your senseless edits following two different set of rules of editing for yourself and for me. Please practise before you preach! Kindly cite sources for NSS & SNDP to justify their inclusion under the sub-heading background in this page without violating the WP:NOR. Similarly don't write plain vague statements first, then ask for reasons and citations from others; as they become WP:POV (What way you would have responded if I were doing the same like you?).
Neither a POV-problem nor a conflict of interest I have as far as furnishing the actual reason for the due formation of Kanyakumari district and its subsequent merger to Tamil Nadu is concerned. I just answered your question.You may refer to pages after your edit onwards in which you have asked why? for the formation of Kanyakumari district!
The book titled "Then Ellai Kaavalan Nesamony"(Tamil) / (meaning "Nesamony - Defender of Southern Border" in English) was written by Dr. G. Issac Arul Dhas, M.A., M.Phill., Ph.D., C.L.; was published by Nesamony Tamizhar Pathippagam, 60,C-2, Daniel Compound, Near Water Tank, Nagercoil-629 001. (Tel: +91-04652-231208); and its first copy was released by the then Union Minister for Sports and Youth Affairs, Government of India, Mr. Pon Radhakrishnan M.A., B.L., M.P. in the erstwhile B.J.P. ministry of N.D.A. on the occasion of 108th birth anniversary of Marshal Nesamony on 12th June 2002 at Allen Memorial Hall in Nagercoil. INMHO, this scholarly book gives a good record of the virtues of Nesamony without resorting to hagiography (i.e. too much praising or glorifying or idealizing or idolizing biography and thereby edifying the reader). Also it doesn't indulge in famicide against Nesamony as it happened in Wikipedia's A.Nesamony page in the name of neutrality in the past. I would like to apologize for not updating you about this book promptly due to my real world time constraints. :- -- Kumaripriya ( talk) 15:43, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Thanks once again for confirming it. You are definitely part of a vested interest group. You already advocated to have two truths for one single event. Sorry, I neither believe in duplicity nor support the same. As far as Dr. Issac Arul Dhas is concerned, he is just an academician, a writer and a research scholar. Nesamony Tamizhar Pathippagam is a book-publisher who has published many books by various authors. The person who released the particular book is now president of the Tamil Nadu unit of B.J.P. Then how you are jumping into a prejudgement that it is a self-published unreliable source? Moreover, I don't want to have any more frank discussions with you since you have preconceived ideas about this particular topic of A. Nesamony, although your knowledge about him is a big zero. Kindly don't rape the page any more! I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink! :--- Kumaripriya ( talk) 18:40, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Go and get your designation changed at Wikipedia immediately from contributor to conspirator that would be more appropriate for you! :- -- Kumaripriya ( talk) 17:00, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
The contents of evidence-material cited above by me on 21 June 2011 has been found removed/missing now, in that external link, for which I am not responsible. Meanwhile, I may review or revoke or revert, if required as and when the occasion arises, some portions since the main article page, after your last marathon edits on 11th June 2011 coinciding with the eve of A.Nesamony's birth anniversary, lacks in substance to the standards of Wikipedia. :- -- Kumaripriya ( talk) 13:47, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I am glad that a copy of the book in question has been located at Connemara Public Library at last. I sincerely request your goodself to go through it (of course, with help from your friends, as the same is in Tamil) since the book also contains some rare informative pictures like that of the Special Commemorative Postal Envelope published at the birth centenary of Marshal Nesamony in 1995 by Government of India, the election symbol of TTNC,etc. which I am sure will be able to meet your expectations. :--- Kumaripriya ( talk) 22:49, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
The explanation furnished above has created more confusions in my mind than any clarification for the following reasons:
Thanks a lot for your kind and prompt reply, but I am still waiting and searching for the answers to my queries!
Kindly desist from removing vital historical factual information from the main page, such as Nesamony's fruitful fight against caste discrimination inside the court hall then, chairs for upper castes and stools for lower castes, as it's an important achievement by him in those days.
Being very successful both in politics and legal profession, it seems that Marshal Nesamony must have won lots of fake friends but true enemies from all walks of life including our Wikipedia. Otherwise, how come a different set of rules and yardsticks only for his page, all in the name of so-called 'controversial stuff'? :--- Kumaripriya ( talk) 13:56, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Don't expect me to be a 'mute spectator' when you deliberately want to cook-up an edit conflict situation just to silence the opposite view points, even though there exists a printed and published proof to substantiate and support the same, with some half-baked cock-n-bull stories and certain lame excuses. Also don't blame the innocent contributor for producing hard evidence that was not self-published by him or the author for their self-praises or self-publicity or flattery! Please refer to WP:BB and I am a proud Wikipedian to proclaim the truth aloud always!
Recently, there was a message from Wikipedia, while expressing deep concern & anguish, earnestly asking for the reasons why new contributors disappear fast from the edit scenario without any trace later on. Statements like 'Wikipedia is not the right place for you', frequent interference with edits of others just because they don't endorse your personal view points in the articles, scathing but sarcastic remarks over their edits although there is enough substance matter in them, unwanted issuance of threats and warnings, subtle attacks/counter-attacks, etc. will not do any good to Wikipedia but can certainly do damage to Wikipedia, by chasing away the genuine and right talents while spoiling its reputation in the long run.Don't forget that no one including you is indispensable in this world. Hence I request you not to repeat the same stunts in future, because we are not kids!
Kindly don't allow Wikipedia's article pages to be converted to that of a tabloid by needlessly concentrating and printing the gossips/sins about/of notable people as they will be of no use to others!-- Kumaripriya ( talk) 16:11, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on A. Nesamony. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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