A news item involving 2024 New Caledonia unrest was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 17 May 2024. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
It says "which prevent up to one fifth of the population from voting in provincial elections."
But doesn't mention that the issue is with non locals who don't live in Caledonia voting. It makes it seem like the people who live in Caledonia are being prevented from voting. Midgetman433 ( talk) 18:03, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Would someone be kind enough to tell me why is it that Azerbaijan and Turkey whose only proof of involvement are allegations by French government officials are included in the infobox? I thought that per the discussion in the Ukraina-Russia War infobox countries were only to be added if they were fighting alongside the main actors? Why the double standards here? There's no Azerbaijani/Turkish soldiers in New Caledonia and no actual proof of direct involvement in the protests.
189.193.79.120 ( talk) 15:37, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Note: I reverted the bold addition of the Rassemblement National's logo in the "counterprotestors" part of the infobox. We don't add one flag for one party and leave the rest without their logos, as it makes it look like we're advertising for that party. In my opinion all of this long list of parties should be removed as per the above. In an effort to see whether there is anything worth keeping here, I've added "citation needed" tags for all the parties (rather than simply delete them pending proper sourcing). In 48 hours, we can go through and delete all those for which no references have been provided. If someone prefers to just delete the unsourced claims that's fine with me too. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 08:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
The "sisters and brothers" part of the paraphrased PCC statement is a direct quotation from it. It has to be put in quotation marks or otherwise deleted, as that is clearly not a neutral way to phrase it. 2A01:C23:5C73:5800:6473:2D4C:7358:4D8 ( talk) 20:56, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Before reference 37. 82.36.70.81 ( talk) 21:32, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
I do not have access to the full Le Monde article (I canceled my subscription recently.) What is publicly visible suggests that the European Court statement was on 11 January 2005, before the Constitutional amendment in 2007. Also can we really say that Jacques Chirac amended the constitution all by himself @ Aréat:?
How is it determined which countries should and should not be included? b/c there seem to be several countries that were named, yet only 2 get put. Midgetman433 ( talk) 00:28, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
The counter protestors claim is also not sourced. Not to mention that the protestors are listed as 9,000 rioters, as if there aren't also people involved in protesting that aren't rioting. This language didn't get used in BLM protests in the US or Hong Kong Protests, as well as Maidan protests in Ukraine, there seems to be a bias here in an attempt to delegitimize the protests.
The World Socialist Website has published an article on the New Caledonia unrest. The article analyses the events from a Trotskyist Marxist perspective and also cites content from Le Monde and Radio New Zealand. WSWS is classified as an opinionated source that must be used with due weight at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. Not sure whether I should use it or whether it would be better to consult the sources that it cites? Andykatib ( talk) 05:20, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
This was calculated to allow 25,841 people into the electorate out of the 42,000 excluded : 12,441 citizens who were born and grew up on New-Calédonia who would automaticaly join the electorate, and up to 13,400 citizens who can justify of a continuous ten years residence on New-Caledonia, who would be able to individually request to join it.
[1] A total of 16,000 citizens would remain excluded from participating in the provincial election
[1].
is sourced to
WP:PRIMARY. The gist of this is said *much* more concisely in secondary sources and without the misspelling, split infinitive, misplaced punctuation, and poor lexical choice ("justify of"). The person who restored these mistakes is well beyond 3RR (due to intervening edits). Still, I'd rather leave it to someone else to decide whether the repetitions of "electorate" and "born in New Caledonia" help the reader or are more likely to cause the reader to stop reading. Maybe I'm missing something... it is after all
alleged that the exact numbers (12,441 & 25,841) are the cause of the crisis. --
SashiRolls
🌿 ·
🍥 06:38, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
References
the same or different material) and WP:NPA. You are on very thin ice. Claiming that I am "stalking" you when I landed on this poorly written page after watching the evening news is a bit much.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 08:12, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm concerned that the only source for the alleged involvement of China and Russia is BFM, which leans towards right-wing populism and is prone to sensationalism. Can someone with better French than me please find a more reputable source discussing these claims? 2A02:8084:4F42:2280:CC95:2019:C7C0:E27 ( talk) 06:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
All these French allegations of foreign involvement make it seem like it was entirely engineered from abroad, while there is only speculative indication that it could be the case. The French government would prefer people to focus on this, in order to neglect the inequality and power dynamic between the ethnic groups. Azerbaijan gave a platform to independence activists in Baku, but so far there is no conclusive evidence that they bought every single Kanak to rise up whereas their discontent has been documented since the French stepped foot on their archipelago.
An IP up here made a valid point, that on the page Russo-Ukrainian War there isn't (and I don't recall ever seeing) a list of the – many – actual backers of Ukraine, who gave billions upon billions of aid, munitions, military advisers. Or Israel–Hamas war ; despite the 1 billion dollar in military aid recently given by America to Israel. There are absolutely double standards on Wikipedia when it comes to non-Western sides of a conflict. Shoshin000 ( talk) 08:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
The 'Second Cold War' is not an officially designated era or event in current history. I understand there seems to be an accelerated polarization and a consequential tension in world politics. However, Wikipedia is not the place to decide on the scope, nor to arbitrarily categorise certain events as belonging to this vaguely defined 'era'.
I suggest the removal of this piece of information from this page for the time being.
Masterdesky ( talk) 09:05, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
The intro from the French article is more complete and nuanced. However the sources (given in frwp) need to be included here as well. Shoshin000 ( talk) 09:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
It seems to me less of a response to the unrest and more of a separate topic entirely. We could possibly add Turkey as well which was mentioned in the infobox, with sources [2] and [3] but did not get mentioned directly in the article. Yvan Part ( talk) 10:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
The Azeri foreign ministry said the French Senate resolution, which has no legal force, had tainted France’s reputation as a fair mediator and cast doubt on its neutrality.and
France’s foreign minister on Wednesday dismissed the senate resolution, saying it would contradict France’s neutral position and pointing out that even Armenia itself had not recognised Nagorno-Karabakh.So the opinion is not supported by the source cited in the article, leading me to believe the article is not a reliable source. I think it would be wisest to remove the strong claim "sided with Armenia" and take up the issue at RS/N, unless someone can find reliable sources that indicate there was an official French policy of "supporting Armenia" in the conflict and that this was somehow relevant to New Caledonia.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 00:38, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hello, could:
Between 13 and 18 May, six people were killed, including two gendarmes. Another 64 police officers were injured.[6][43] Five independence activists accused of violence were placed under house arrest.[44] On 15 May, a gendarme was seriously injured in Plum and died later in the same day. On 16 May, the death of another French gendarme in New Caledonia from accidental gunshot wounds was announced by Gérald Darmanin in a message to Agence France-Presse.[45] On 18 May, a Caldoche man was shot dead in a gunfight in Kaala-Gomen, after being denied passage with his son at a roadblock monitored by Kanak protesters. Two Kanak protesters were injured.[46]
Be changed to:
Between 13 and 18 May, six people were killed, including two gendarmes. Another 64 police officers were injured.[6][43] 10 activists accused of organizing violence were placed under house arrest. [1] On 15 May, a gendarme was seriously injured in Plum and died later in the same day. On 16 May, three Kanak civilians, 2 men and 1 woman ages 17 to 35, were killed by unidentified armed civilians in Nouméa, [2] while Gérald Darmanin announced in a message to Agence France-Presse[45] the dead of a second gendarme following a friendly fire incident with another member of the security forces.[46] On 18 May, a Caldoche man was shot dead in a gunfight in Kaala-Gomen, after being denied passage with his son at a roadblock monitored by Kanak protesters. Two Kanak protesters were injured.[46]
I added the new sources but didn't add the old ones cause I can't edit the original article to retrieve them and the source page is just too confusing for me to parse them. This part:
"the dead of a second gendarme following a friendly fire incident with another member of the security forces."
Has the same source as the last claim. 189.193.79.120 ( talk) 18:05, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
References
This edit introduces a source that does not mention New Caledonia at all. It should be removed. I'd rather not make any more edits to this article for a while given that I had to use up my daily allotment of reverts to remove grammatical errors. The update suggested above also would require making changes to previously existing material. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:19, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
The section on gun ownership was recently removed without discussion. I do not think this was a good decision as this is an issue widely covered in secondary sources. ( One example that was not cited in that section, but could have been)
Is there consensus for this removal or was it a lone wolf action? -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 21:12, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under Responses: REPLACE (Under Australia) "An estimated 3,200 tourists and other travellers including Australians remain stranded in New Caledonia." with: "An estimated 3,200 tourists and other travelers including 300 Australians remain stranded in New Caledonia.[65][74]" ADD (Under Australia) On May 20th, Wong announced the Australian government had received approval from french authorites for two evacuation flights.[74] ADD (Under New Zealand) On May 20th New Zealand announced a flight on May 21st to evacuate 50 New Zealand nationals from the capital of Noumea.[74] ADD SOURCES: [74] https://apnews.com/article/australia-new-zealand-new-caledonia-australia-8fb1ad85f675720ed77c03b718533bd2 ExiaMesa ( talk) 03:13, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
I don't have an account and can't fix this myself as the page is protected. The phrase "demographic replacement" in the article incorrectly links to "Great Replacement", an unrelated white nationalist theory. 31.94.4.214 ( talk) 20:41, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
I don't see a discussion above about the removal of racial tensions and economic inequalities from the infobox. Was it @ Aréat: who removed it again? It looks like it was: not only was the material removed but the source [1] was not moved elsewhere, which is certainly not an NPOV treatment. I noticed over at fr.wp that something was said about the racial tensions going both ways, which is obviously mentioned in the sources for this entry (cf. [2] [3]). Any comments on this unilateral removal? It obviously shouldn't have been done without discussion, but should it have been done at all? Should we also add the uncertainty concerning the nickel industry to the infobox based on the sources we have in the socio-economic section? -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:46, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
References
Force est de constater que le rééquilibrage n'a pas permis de réduire les inégalités économiques et sociales, elles se sont même accrues, et que les discussions que j'ai pu avoir avec les responsables politiques, économiques, comme la société civile, disent clairement que les inégalités ont continué de s'accroître et que pour partie, sans en rien justifier, elles nourissent aussi une part du racisme qui a réémergé depuis onze jours en quelque sorte d'une manière inédite dans son caractère désinhibé et assumé.transcription rapide -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 21:34, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
When considering any aspect of infobox design, keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize—and not supplant—key facts that appear in the article. That is, an article should remain complete with its summary infobox ignored, with exceptions noted below. The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance.
Yvan Part ( talk) 22:43, 4 June 2024 (UTC)References are acceptable in some cases, but generally not needed in infoboxes if the content is repeated (and cited) elsewhere or if the information is obvious. If the material needs a reference (see WP:MINREF for guidelines) and the information does not also appear in the body of the article, the reference should be included in the infobox. But editors should first consider including the fact in the body of the article.
Are there independent sources to corroborate the claims of 79 dead in the intro? Borgenland ( talk) 18:09, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
As of 30 May 2024, there have been 79 direct and indirect deaths in total. [1]
References
While it is clear that the ruling by the European Court was based on the "incomplete and transitory" nature of the measures in place at the time the appellant complained about not being allowed to vote, this was years prior to the Constitutional amendment. The primary document @
Aréat: added does include the words "inevitably transitory" but with regards to all of Title XIII of the French Constitution, not just the frozen electorate. Though the primary source does not mention "universal suffrage" in the section concerned in exactly those words, it is not a stretch (at all) to infer this is what is meant by "universality". My edit summary was too hasty and reflects what is (not) in the secondary document. The primary document, which seems to have a strange "official but not official" status (as it is said not to represent the political opinion of the government) includes the following: Parmi les restrictions admises à titre temporaire, le corps électoral restreint et figé notamment ne saurait être pérenne dans sa configuration actuelle
/ Among the restrictions accepted on a temporary basis, the restricted and frozen electorate cannot be sustained in its current configuration, which is the key phrase (cf.
§). My apologies to Aréat for limiting my reading to the secondary source which didn't support the points he added... the government source does indeed make all of the points Aréat added, in addition to stating that *nothing* would be automatic... and so (it would seem) any future changes to the law will be the result of political action. The discussion of the political decisions made in May/June 2021 suggests that future actions were sketched out (and are now overdue based on that sketch). (cf. p.
50-51).--
SashiRolls
🌿 ·
🍥 18:04, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
A news item involving 2024 New Caledonia unrest was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 17 May 2024. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
It says "which prevent up to one fifth of the population from voting in provincial elections."
But doesn't mention that the issue is with non locals who don't live in Caledonia voting. It makes it seem like the people who live in Caledonia are being prevented from voting. Midgetman433 ( talk) 18:03, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Would someone be kind enough to tell me why is it that Azerbaijan and Turkey whose only proof of involvement are allegations by French government officials are included in the infobox? I thought that per the discussion in the Ukraina-Russia War infobox countries were only to be added if they were fighting alongside the main actors? Why the double standards here? There's no Azerbaijani/Turkish soldiers in New Caledonia and no actual proof of direct involvement in the protests.
189.193.79.120 ( talk) 15:37, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Note: I reverted the bold addition of the Rassemblement National's logo in the "counterprotestors" part of the infobox. We don't add one flag for one party and leave the rest without their logos, as it makes it look like we're advertising for that party. In my opinion all of this long list of parties should be removed as per the above. In an effort to see whether there is anything worth keeping here, I've added "citation needed" tags for all the parties (rather than simply delete them pending proper sourcing). In 48 hours, we can go through and delete all those for which no references have been provided. If someone prefers to just delete the unsourced claims that's fine with me too. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 08:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
The "sisters and brothers" part of the paraphrased PCC statement is a direct quotation from it. It has to be put in quotation marks or otherwise deleted, as that is clearly not a neutral way to phrase it. 2A01:C23:5C73:5800:6473:2D4C:7358:4D8 ( talk) 20:56, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Before reference 37. 82.36.70.81 ( talk) 21:32, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
I do not have access to the full Le Monde article (I canceled my subscription recently.) What is publicly visible suggests that the European Court statement was on 11 January 2005, before the Constitutional amendment in 2007. Also can we really say that Jacques Chirac amended the constitution all by himself @ Aréat:?
How is it determined which countries should and should not be included? b/c there seem to be several countries that were named, yet only 2 get put. Midgetman433 ( talk) 00:28, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
The counter protestors claim is also not sourced. Not to mention that the protestors are listed as 9,000 rioters, as if there aren't also people involved in protesting that aren't rioting. This language didn't get used in BLM protests in the US or Hong Kong Protests, as well as Maidan protests in Ukraine, there seems to be a bias here in an attempt to delegitimize the protests.
The World Socialist Website has published an article on the New Caledonia unrest. The article analyses the events from a Trotskyist Marxist perspective and also cites content from Le Monde and Radio New Zealand. WSWS is classified as an opinionated source that must be used with due weight at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. Not sure whether I should use it or whether it would be better to consult the sources that it cites? Andykatib ( talk) 05:20, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
This was calculated to allow 25,841 people into the electorate out of the 42,000 excluded : 12,441 citizens who were born and grew up on New-Calédonia who would automaticaly join the electorate, and up to 13,400 citizens who can justify of a continuous ten years residence on New-Caledonia, who would be able to individually request to join it.
[1] A total of 16,000 citizens would remain excluded from participating in the provincial election
[1].
is sourced to
WP:PRIMARY. The gist of this is said *much* more concisely in secondary sources and without the misspelling, split infinitive, misplaced punctuation, and poor lexical choice ("justify of"). The person who restored these mistakes is well beyond 3RR (due to intervening edits). Still, I'd rather leave it to someone else to decide whether the repetitions of "electorate" and "born in New Caledonia" help the reader or are more likely to cause the reader to stop reading. Maybe I'm missing something... it is after all
alleged that the exact numbers (12,441 & 25,841) are the cause of the crisis. --
SashiRolls
🌿 ·
🍥 06:38, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
References
the same or different material) and WP:NPA. You are on very thin ice. Claiming that I am "stalking" you when I landed on this poorly written page after watching the evening news is a bit much.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 08:12, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
I'm concerned that the only source for the alleged involvement of China and Russia is BFM, which leans towards right-wing populism and is prone to sensationalism. Can someone with better French than me please find a more reputable source discussing these claims? 2A02:8084:4F42:2280:CC95:2019:C7C0:E27 ( talk) 06:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
All these French allegations of foreign involvement make it seem like it was entirely engineered from abroad, while there is only speculative indication that it could be the case. The French government would prefer people to focus on this, in order to neglect the inequality and power dynamic between the ethnic groups. Azerbaijan gave a platform to independence activists in Baku, but so far there is no conclusive evidence that they bought every single Kanak to rise up whereas their discontent has been documented since the French stepped foot on their archipelago.
An IP up here made a valid point, that on the page Russo-Ukrainian War there isn't (and I don't recall ever seeing) a list of the – many – actual backers of Ukraine, who gave billions upon billions of aid, munitions, military advisers. Or Israel–Hamas war ; despite the 1 billion dollar in military aid recently given by America to Israel. There are absolutely double standards on Wikipedia when it comes to non-Western sides of a conflict. Shoshin000 ( talk) 08:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
The 'Second Cold War' is not an officially designated era or event in current history. I understand there seems to be an accelerated polarization and a consequential tension in world politics. However, Wikipedia is not the place to decide on the scope, nor to arbitrarily categorise certain events as belonging to this vaguely defined 'era'.
I suggest the removal of this piece of information from this page for the time being.
Masterdesky ( talk) 09:05, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
The intro from the French article is more complete and nuanced. However the sources (given in frwp) need to be included here as well. Shoshin000 ( talk) 09:31, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
It seems to me less of a response to the unrest and more of a separate topic entirely. We could possibly add Turkey as well which was mentioned in the infobox, with sources [2] and [3] but did not get mentioned directly in the article. Yvan Part ( talk) 10:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
The Azeri foreign ministry said the French Senate resolution, which has no legal force, had tainted France’s reputation as a fair mediator and cast doubt on its neutrality.and
France’s foreign minister on Wednesday dismissed the senate resolution, saying it would contradict France’s neutral position and pointing out that even Armenia itself had not recognised Nagorno-Karabakh.So the opinion is not supported by the source cited in the article, leading me to believe the article is not a reliable source. I think it would be wisest to remove the strong claim "sided with Armenia" and take up the issue at RS/N, unless someone can find reliable sources that indicate there was an official French policy of "supporting Armenia" in the conflict and that this was somehow relevant to New Caledonia.-- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 00:38, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hello, could:
Between 13 and 18 May, six people were killed, including two gendarmes. Another 64 police officers were injured.[6][43] Five independence activists accused of violence were placed under house arrest.[44] On 15 May, a gendarme was seriously injured in Plum and died later in the same day. On 16 May, the death of another French gendarme in New Caledonia from accidental gunshot wounds was announced by Gérald Darmanin in a message to Agence France-Presse.[45] On 18 May, a Caldoche man was shot dead in a gunfight in Kaala-Gomen, after being denied passage with his son at a roadblock monitored by Kanak protesters. Two Kanak protesters were injured.[46]
Be changed to:
Between 13 and 18 May, six people were killed, including two gendarmes. Another 64 police officers were injured.[6][43] 10 activists accused of organizing violence were placed under house arrest. [1] On 15 May, a gendarme was seriously injured in Plum and died later in the same day. On 16 May, three Kanak civilians, 2 men and 1 woman ages 17 to 35, were killed by unidentified armed civilians in Nouméa, [2] while Gérald Darmanin announced in a message to Agence France-Presse[45] the dead of a second gendarme following a friendly fire incident with another member of the security forces.[46] On 18 May, a Caldoche man was shot dead in a gunfight in Kaala-Gomen, after being denied passage with his son at a roadblock monitored by Kanak protesters. Two Kanak protesters were injured.[46]
I added the new sources but didn't add the old ones cause I can't edit the original article to retrieve them and the source page is just too confusing for me to parse them. This part:
"the dead of a second gendarme following a friendly fire incident with another member of the security forces."
Has the same source as the last claim. 189.193.79.120 ( talk) 18:05, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
References
This edit introduces a source that does not mention New Caledonia at all. It should be removed. I'd rather not make any more edits to this article for a while given that I had to use up my daily allotment of reverts to remove grammatical errors. The update suggested above also would require making changes to previously existing material. -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:19, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
The section on gun ownership was recently removed without discussion. I do not think this was a good decision as this is an issue widely covered in secondary sources. ( One example that was not cited in that section, but could have been)
Is there consensus for this removal or was it a lone wolf action? -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 21:12, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under Responses: REPLACE (Under Australia) "An estimated 3,200 tourists and other travellers including Australians remain stranded in New Caledonia." with: "An estimated 3,200 tourists and other travelers including 300 Australians remain stranded in New Caledonia.[65][74]" ADD (Under Australia) On May 20th, Wong announced the Australian government had received approval from french authorites for two evacuation flights.[74] ADD (Under New Zealand) On May 20th New Zealand announced a flight on May 21st to evacuate 50 New Zealand nationals from the capital of Noumea.[74] ADD SOURCES: [74] https://apnews.com/article/australia-new-zealand-new-caledonia-australia-8fb1ad85f675720ed77c03b718533bd2 ExiaMesa ( talk) 03:13, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
I don't have an account and can't fix this myself as the page is protected. The phrase "demographic replacement" in the article incorrectly links to "Great Replacement", an unrelated white nationalist theory. 31.94.4.214 ( talk) 20:41, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
I don't see a discussion above about the removal of racial tensions and economic inequalities from the infobox. Was it @ Aréat: who removed it again? It looks like it was: not only was the material removed but the source [1] was not moved elsewhere, which is certainly not an NPOV treatment. I noticed over at fr.wp that something was said about the racial tensions going both ways, which is obviously mentioned in the sources for this entry (cf. [2] [3]). Any comments on this unilateral removal? It obviously shouldn't have been done without discussion, but should it have been done at all? Should we also add the uncertainty concerning the nickel industry to the infobox based on the sources we have in the socio-economic section? -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 18:46, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
References
Force est de constater que le rééquilibrage n'a pas permis de réduire les inégalités économiques et sociales, elles se sont même accrues, et que les discussions que j'ai pu avoir avec les responsables politiques, économiques, comme la société civile, disent clairement que les inégalités ont continué de s'accroître et que pour partie, sans en rien justifier, elles nourissent aussi une part du racisme qui a réémergé depuis onze jours en quelque sorte d'une manière inédite dans son caractère désinhibé et assumé.transcription rapide -- SashiRolls 🌿 · 🍥 21:34, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
When considering any aspect of infobox design, keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize—and not supplant—key facts that appear in the article. That is, an article should remain complete with its summary infobox ignored, with exceptions noted below. The less information it contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance.
Yvan Part ( talk) 22:43, 4 June 2024 (UTC)References are acceptable in some cases, but generally not needed in infoboxes if the content is repeated (and cited) elsewhere or if the information is obvious. If the material needs a reference (see WP:MINREF for guidelines) and the information does not also appear in the body of the article, the reference should be included in the infobox. But editors should first consider including the fact in the body of the article.
Are there independent sources to corroborate the claims of 79 dead in the intro? Borgenland ( talk) 18:09, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
As of 30 May 2024, there have been 79 direct and indirect deaths in total. [1]
References
While it is clear that the ruling by the European Court was based on the "incomplete and transitory" nature of the measures in place at the time the appellant complained about not being allowed to vote, this was years prior to the Constitutional amendment. The primary document @
Aréat: added does include the words "inevitably transitory" but with regards to all of Title XIII of the French Constitution, not just the frozen electorate. Though the primary source does not mention "universal suffrage" in the section concerned in exactly those words, it is not a stretch (at all) to infer this is what is meant by "universality". My edit summary was too hasty and reflects what is (not) in the secondary document. The primary document, which seems to have a strange "official but not official" status (as it is said not to represent the political opinion of the government) includes the following: Parmi les restrictions admises à titre temporaire, le corps électoral restreint et figé notamment ne saurait être pérenne dans sa configuration actuelle
/ Among the restrictions accepted on a temporary basis, the restricted and frozen electorate cannot be sustained in its current configuration, which is the key phrase (cf.
§). My apologies to Aréat for limiting my reading to the secondary source which didn't support the points he added... the government source does indeed make all of the points Aréat added, in addition to stating that *nothing* would be automatic... and so (it would seem) any future changes to the law will be the result of political action. The discussion of the political decisions made in May/June 2021 suggests that future actions were sketched out (and are now overdue based on that sketch). (cf. p.
50-51).--
SashiRolls
🌿 ·
🍥 18:04, 4 June 2024 (UTC)