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![]() | On 5 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from 2023 East Jerusalem synagogue shooting to 2023 Neve Yaakov attack. The result of the discussion was moved. |
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the lead says outside the synagogue, the boy says entered the synagogue. Haaretz has it as taking place outside as people left. nableezy - 20:46, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
Mooonswimmer, why did you revert my changes here and here without any comment? nableezy - 20:54, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
Triggerhippie4, this did not occur in Israel, kindly remove the mis-categorization. nableezy - 04:28, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
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2023 East Jerusalem synagogue shooting has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "Israeli Settlement in Neve Yaakov" to Jerusalem.
I am not sure who wrote this article, but the shooting was in Jerusalem, inside of Israel (the U.N. and the rest of the world recognize Jerusalem as Israel, and the U.S. recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel). Whoever wrote this part of the article is either miseducated, or antisemitic. With recent events in the world, I would suggest you rectify this mistake as soon as you can. 2601:645:4201:D060:8CA0:15F0:3F3E:2A75 ( talk) 02:58, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
NYT - "at a building used as a synagogue in Neve Yakov, an Israeli settlement in the northern tip of East Jerusalem."
Reuters Israeli police described it as a "terror attack" and said it took place in a synagogue in Neve Ya'akov, considered by Israelis as a neighbourhood within Jerusalem, while Palestinians and most of the international community consider it occupied land illegally annexed after a 1967 Middle East war."
Haaretz "attack near a synagogue in the East Jerusalem settlement of Neve Yaakov"
This diff asserts without evidence that "most sources describe Neve Ya'akov as a Jewish area of East Jerusalem (the term "settlement" is used by Al-Jazeera only, and "neighborhood" by Israeli media)".
The statement about AJ is factually incorrect as demonstrated by the NYT and Haaretz quotes above who correctly refer to it as an Israeli settlement/settlement in East Jerusalem.
Unless someone else does it first I intend to revert this (it has been changed to the factually incorrect version three times now) unless I see proof that "most sources describe Neve Ya'akov as a Jewish area of East Jerusalem". Selfstudier ( talk) 10:47, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Once again removed in a series of NPOV violating edits by Salandarianflag. nableezy - 18:27, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
The majority of the titles of the articles reporting the shootings used the phrase "Jerusalem synagogue shooting." Why did we, in Wikipedia, pick "East Jerusalem synagogue shooting" instead? Tombah ( talk) 11:52, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Thats absurd, and based on nothing. Nearly every source says this occurred in East Jerusalem. Im surprised the suggestion isnt Terror attack in neighborhood in Israel's eternal capital. This happened in East Jerusalem, so our article, and title, say that. nableezy - 15:33, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Also, please change the term "killing" to "murdered". You don't emphasize that this is terror and they were killed for being jews, and this wording gives the impression that this is like a mall shooting in America made by a lunatic. אניהעצמיהאני ( talk) 13:14, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
The latest edits by Salandarianflag replace killed with murdered and need to be reverted, as there has been no murder conviction (obviously). nableezy - 18:28, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
The lead/infobox is contradictory, only c4.com says 8? (+ 10 injured which doesn't seem right either). Someone can fix it up? Selfstudier ( talk) 16:58, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
I dont see what is being added by naming the suspect here, there isnt anything being gained from it. WP:BLPCRIME would at least require some reason to do so, and I fail to see it. And yes, having been recently killed himself he is still covered under BLP. nableezy - 17:54, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
@
Nableezy:
FAZ clearly states that there is evidence that it was motivated by revenge. By contrast, the significance of the date, as IHRD, while featuring prominently in the reactions, has not actually been linked to events and its presence in the lead is frankly an irrelevance. It could be pure coincidence and only as related as anything else that happens on the date (aside from the obvious thematic linkage); it is not core information. FAZ: "Some commentators pointed out that the act took place on International Holocaust Remembrance Day."
Just that.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 08:07, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
What? I didn't remove the revenge motive. But if you ask me, I don't think it's leadworthy. Tombah ( talk) 21:58, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
its covered originally here (Hebrew) and in English here, but the English doesnt give the name of the victims like Haaretz does in Hebrew. Here the JPost covers his release, and as far as I can see he is still under house arrest but never convicted. I dont think we can say that he was killed by such and such, but I think we can say, citing MEE, say was killed and the suspect was charged and later released. so im doing that. nableezy - 08:17, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
The current 'news' source quoted for the reaction of the attacker's father has taken an interview with the clearly grieving and disconsolate father, mistranslated it and cherry-picking some throwaway lines to make it out as if he is actually happy about his son's death. The obvious reason why the interview is not transcribed more fully is because not a single more word from it would actually support the pointed and grimly ludicrous misportrayal. Either a source should be found with an editorial staff that actually gives two shits about accurate reporting and its own editorial integrity, and which translates it correctly and provides a full picture, or it should go. As it stands, it falls under WP:ECREE. Iskandar323 ( talk) 09:23, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
The youngest victim was 14 years old: https://www.timesofisrael.com/additional-victims-of-jerusalem-terror-shooting-idd-as-14-year-old-boy-father-of-3/amp/
Jordan and Saudi Arabia condemned it: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-01-28/ty-article/.premium/jordan-condemns-deadly-east-jerusalem-synagogue-attack/00000185-f774-d4a2-adb5-f77c51c80000 Marko8726 ( talk) 11:23, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
I added this just now. According to this account, the target was not the synagogue and no-one from there was killed. Selfstudier ( talk) 13:42, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Tombah: you have crossed 1RR again just now. [2] [3] I have given you grace on this too many times, and you have ignored my suggestion to self-revert on two prior separate occasions. If you don’t self revert soon I will be opening an AE. Onceinawhile ( talk) 16:06, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
The perpetrator being named after his grandfather who was murdered in a similar but reversed situation shortly before his birth, is clearly relevant.
Tombah, since you disagree, can you please explain how this could be not relevant? The horrific cyclicality of it will resonate with everyone. By deemphasizing the personal motive we risk implying a different motive – yet there has been no suggestion he was working for a militant group.
Onceinawhile ( talk) 16:27, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
"some evidence that the attack was an act of revenge prompted by personal circumstances."Other than this being "some evidence", not "speculation", it is a greater stretch of the imagination that the death of arelative two days prior was absent from the perpetrator's mind. Iskandar323 ( talk) 18:24, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
See this article in Hebrew:
"The victims ranged from ages 20 to 70". should be changed to - "The victims ranged from ages 14 to 68". The 7 victims were buried and identified and every source can tell you that. Here are a few: The 7 victims of Jerusalem terror shooting named; include teen and synagogue sexton Israel to ‘strengthen’ settlements after shooting attacks Seven killed, three injured in Jerusalem synagogue massacre. I may also suggest adding the fact that a 14 year old teen and a 68 year old Gabbai of a Jerusalem synagogue were killed in the attack just as the lead of the " 2023 Jenin killings" article mentions "one of whom was an elderly woman". Lonparis ( talk) 16:12, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
Please add a section labeled "Victims" including the name, age and location/circumstance of each of the seven victims' death. This is relevant to describing the attack, it has become best practice in journalism, and is necessary if there is a section labeled "Perpetrator." 24.228.115.125 ( talk) 17:39, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. as proposed per consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) echidnaLives - talk - edits 02:52, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
2023 East Jerusalem synagogue shooting → 2023 Neve Yaakov attack – The synagogue was not the target of the shooter, no one from there was killed. Proposed title has 56 hits. Although "East Jerusalem synagogue shooting" has 60 hits, it is because of false reporting immediately after the attack which said that the shooter waited outside and shot people leaving the synagogue- Selfstudier ( talk) 11:57, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2023 Neve Yaakov shooting article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
![]() | A news item involving 2023 Neve Yaakov shooting was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 1 February 2023. | ![]() |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 5 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from 2023 East Jerusalem synagogue shooting to 2023 Neve Yaakov attack. The result of the discussion was moved. |
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
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the lead says outside the synagogue, the boy says entered the synagogue. Haaretz has it as taking place outside as people left. nableezy - 20:46, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
Mooonswimmer, why did you revert my changes here and here without any comment? nableezy - 20:54, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
Triggerhippie4, this did not occur in Israel, kindly remove the mis-categorization. nableezy - 04:28, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
2023 East Jerusalem synagogue shooting has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "Israeli Settlement in Neve Yaakov" to Jerusalem.
I am not sure who wrote this article, but the shooting was in Jerusalem, inside of Israel (the U.N. and the rest of the world recognize Jerusalem as Israel, and the U.S. recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel). Whoever wrote this part of the article is either miseducated, or antisemitic. With recent events in the world, I would suggest you rectify this mistake as soon as you can. 2601:645:4201:D060:8CA0:15F0:3F3E:2A75 ( talk) 02:58, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
NYT - "at a building used as a synagogue in Neve Yakov, an Israeli settlement in the northern tip of East Jerusalem."
Reuters Israeli police described it as a "terror attack" and said it took place in a synagogue in Neve Ya'akov, considered by Israelis as a neighbourhood within Jerusalem, while Palestinians and most of the international community consider it occupied land illegally annexed after a 1967 Middle East war."
Haaretz "attack near a synagogue in the East Jerusalem settlement of Neve Yaakov"
This diff asserts without evidence that "most sources describe Neve Ya'akov as a Jewish area of East Jerusalem (the term "settlement" is used by Al-Jazeera only, and "neighborhood" by Israeli media)".
The statement about AJ is factually incorrect as demonstrated by the NYT and Haaretz quotes above who correctly refer to it as an Israeli settlement/settlement in East Jerusalem.
Unless someone else does it first I intend to revert this (it has been changed to the factually incorrect version three times now) unless I see proof that "most sources describe Neve Ya'akov as a Jewish area of East Jerusalem". Selfstudier ( talk) 10:47, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Once again removed in a series of NPOV violating edits by Salandarianflag. nableezy - 18:27, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
The majority of the titles of the articles reporting the shootings used the phrase "Jerusalem synagogue shooting." Why did we, in Wikipedia, pick "East Jerusalem synagogue shooting" instead? Tombah ( talk) 11:52, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Thats absurd, and based on nothing. Nearly every source says this occurred in East Jerusalem. Im surprised the suggestion isnt Terror attack in neighborhood in Israel's eternal capital. This happened in East Jerusalem, so our article, and title, say that. nableezy - 15:33, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Also, please change the term "killing" to "murdered". You don't emphasize that this is terror and they were killed for being jews, and this wording gives the impression that this is like a mall shooting in America made by a lunatic. אניהעצמיהאני ( talk) 13:14, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
The latest edits by Salandarianflag replace killed with murdered and need to be reverted, as there has been no murder conviction (obviously). nableezy - 18:28, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
The lead/infobox is contradictory, only c4.com says 8? (+ 10 injured which doesn't seem right either). Someone can fix it up? Selfstudier ( talk) 16:58, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
I dont see what is being added by naming the suspect here, there isnt anything being gained from it. WP:BLPCRIME would at least require some reason to do so, and I fail to see it. And yes, having been recently killed himself he is still covered under BLP. nableezy - 17:54, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
@
Nableezy:
FAZ clearly states that there is evidence that it was motivated by revenge. By contrast, the significance of the date, as IHRD, while featuring prominently in the reactions, has not actually been linked to events and its presence in the lead is frankly an irrelevance. It could be pure coincidence and only as related as anything else that happens on the date (aside from the obvious thematic linkage); it is not core information. FAZ: "Some commentators pointed out that the act took place on International Holocaust Remembrance Day."
Just that.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 08:07, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
What? I didn't remove the revenge motive. But if you ask me, I don't think it's leadworthy. Tombah ( talk) 21:58, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
its covered originally here (Hebrew) and in English here, but the English doesnt give the name of the victims like Haaretz does in Hebrew. Here the JPost covers his release, and as far as I can see he is still under house arrest but never convicted. I dont think we can say that he was killed by such and such, but I think we can say, citing MEE, say was killed and the suspect was charged and later released. so im doing that. nableezy - 08:17, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
The current 'news' source quoted for the reaction of the attacker's father has taken an interview with the clearly grieving and disconsolate father, mistranslated it and cherry-picking some throwaway lines to make it out as if he is actually happy about his son's death. The obvious reason why the interview is not transcribed more fully is because not a single more word from it would actually support the pointed and grimly ludicrous misportrayal. Either a source should be found with an editorial staff that actually gives two shits about accurate reporting and its own editorial integrity, and which translates it correctly and provides a full picture, or it should go. As it stands, it falls under WP:ECREE. Iskandar323 ( talk) 09:23, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
The youngest victim was 14 years old: https://www.timesofisrael.com/additional-victims-of-jerusalem-terror-shooting-idd-as-14-year-old-boy-father-of-3/amp/
Jordan and Saudi Arabia condemned it: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-01-28/ty-article/.premium/jordan-condemns-deadly-east-jerusalem-synagogue-attack/00000185-f774-d4a2-adb5-f77c51c80000 Marko8726 ( talk) 11:23, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
I added this just now. According to this account, the target was not the synagogue and no-one from there was killed. Selfstudier ( talk) 13:42, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Tombah: you have crossed 1RR again just now. [2] [3] I have given you grace on this too many times, and you have ignored my suggestion to self-revert on two prior separate occasions. If you don’t self revert soon I will be opening an AE. Onceinawhile ( talk) 16:06, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
The perpetrator being named after his grandfather who was murdered in a similar but reversed situation shortly before his birth, is clearly relevant.
Tombah, since you disagree, can you please explain how this could be not relevant? The horrific cyclicality of it will resonate with everyone. By deemphasizing the personal motive we risk implying a different motive – yet there has been no suggestion he was working for a militant group.
Onceinawhile ( talk) 16:27, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
"some evidence that the attack was an act of revenge prompted by personal circumstances."Other than this being "some evidence", not "speculation", it is a greater stretch of the imagination that the death of arelative two days prior was absent from the perpetrator's mind. Iskandar323 ( talk) 18:24, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
See this article in Hebrew:
"The victims ranged from ages 20 to 70". should be changed to - "The victims ranged from ages 14 to 68". The 7 victims were buried and identified and every source can tell you that. Here are a few: The 7 victims of Jerusalem terror shooting named; include teen and synagogue sexton Israel to ‘strengthen’ settlements after shooting attacks Seven killed, three injured in Jerusalem synagogue massacre. I may also suggest adding the fact that a 14 year old teen and a 68 year old Gabbai of a Jerusalem synagogue were killed in the attack just as the lead of the " 2023 Jenin killings" article mentions "one of whom was an elderly woman". Lonparis ( talk) 16:12, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
Please add a section labeled "Victims" including the name, age and location/circumstance of each of the seven victims' death. This is relevant to describing the attack, it has become best practice in journalism, and is necessary if there is a section labeled "Perpetrator." 24.228.115.125 ( talk) 17:39, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. as proposed per consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) echidnaLives - talk - edits 02:52, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
2023 East Jerusalem synagogue shooting → 2023 Neve Yaakov attack – The synagogue was not the target of the shooter, no one from there was killed. Proposed title has 56 hits. Although "East Jerusalem synagogue shooting" has 60 hits, it is because of false reporting immediately after the attack which said that the shooter waited outside and shot people leaving the synagogue- Selfstudier ( talk) 11:57, 5 February 2023 (UTC)