This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2023 Hawaii wildfires article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 15 days |
A news item involving 2023 Hawaii wildfires was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 10 August 2023. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Does "containment state" need to be updated? It indicates that the fire is still burning, which it is not. Viriditas ( talk) 08:28, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
I believe they are in the form of press releases on the county of Maui website.Just to be clear, that was what I linked to as the "9/27 MAUI WILDFIRE DISASTER UPDATE" release was the last update under the series of "MAUI WILDFIRE DISASTER UPDATE." It is possible that a later release with a different type of headline has the information, but it is doubtful based on specific Google searches of the Maui website. -- Super Goku V ( talk) 07:12, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
I took a pass through this article and removed a bunch of obsolete stuff as well as copyediting everything. Feedback encouraged. Seems to be some needed additions (such a huge topic):
Lfstevens ( talk) 04:45, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Some links for future use:
Working on a second pass now. More issues:
What is with the revert, @ Viriditas:? And no explanation? Why not just tell me what the problem is and let me fix it? I don't edit war, so I won't revert your revert, but now what? Lfstevens ( talk) 18:33, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Release. Viriditas ( talk) 01:15, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
I'll readily concede that half of those edits were improvements which made the article more concise. Unfortunately, half were not. Several long sentences were shortened and then divided into shorter sentences, resulting in a choppy or halting reading flow. The result is more suitable for a voiceover narration with dramatic pauses, the kind of thing associated with the late Richard Attenborough or Morgan Freeman, as opposed to formal written English.
Please remember that the Wikimedia Foundation maintains the Simple English Wikipedia for readers who have difficulty parsing long English sentences, while the English Wikipedia adheres to the conventions of formal written English. Any objections before I fix this? Coolcaesar ( talk) 17:21, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
Those were not run-on sentences. You do not understand the term.
For example, here is the first part of the paragraph on 5 February 2024 that explained one of the alleged causes of the wildfires (citations omitted for readability):
"During the 2010s and early 2020s, Clay Trauernicht, a botanist and fire scientist at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa, and several other experts warned that the decline of agriculture in Hawaii meant that large areas of formerly productive land had been left unmanaged; nonnative invasive species like guinea grass were spreading rapidly and increasing the risk of large wildfires. The state government failed to provide incentives or impose mandates to keep land clear of grass. The state government also did not require all structure owners to maintain defensible space, a standard rule in fire-prone states like California."
You divided the paragraph and revised it so that it now appears in the current version of the article as: "During the 2010s and early 2020s, botanist and fire scientist Clay Trauernicht, at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa, and other experts warned that the decline of agriculture in Hawaii had left large areas fallow and unmanaged. Homeowners and landlords failed to maintain defensible space around their properties. Power and water utilities failed to fire- and wind-proof their infrastructure. The state government failed to provide incentives or impose mandates to take proper precautions."
The first sentence in the original paragraph, which I drafted, is not a run-on sentence by any definition. It has two independent clauses, separated by a semicolon to imply that the second independent clause is explaining and elaborating upon the topic of the first independent clause.
The larger problem with your revisions is that you missed the entire point of the first paragraph and deleted it from the article. The point is not just that land had been left unmanaged, but that as a result of that, nonnative invasive species like guinea grass are running rampant and increasing the risk of wildfires. That's the specific threat which Trauernicht and other fire experts have been raising hell about for over a decade, as discussed at length in the cited sources. After your revisions, guinea grass is not mentioned at all in the article.
Those are just two errors out of over two dozen in your edits, but I think I've made my point. Unfortunately, the article has continued to evolve, and not all your edits are bad, so I can't do a wholesale revert back to the last good version. I'll have to go through this mess paragraph by paragraph to identify the ones that need to be rolled back and the ones that can stay. -- Coolcaesar ( talk) 17:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
I was hoping that time would heal some wounds and things could proceed. Now I see that my efforts to act in good faith are not welcome here. So I will proceed incrementally and attempt to gain consensus along the way. But this article needs help. With aloha. Lfstevens ( talk) 23:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2023 Hawaii wildfires article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 15 days |
A news item involving 2023 Hawaii wildfires was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 10 August 2023. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Does "containment state" need to be updated? It indicates that the fire is still burning, which it is not. Viriditas ( talk) 08:28, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
I believe they are in the form of press releases on the county of Maui website.Just to be clear, that was what I linked to as the "9/27 MAUI WILDFIRE DISASTER UPDATE" release was the last update under the series of "MAUI WILDFIRE DISASTER UPDATE." It is possible that a later release with a different type of headline has the information, but it is doubtful based on specific Google searches of the Maui website. -- Super Goku V ( talk) 07:12, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
I took a pass through this article and removed a bunch of obsolete stuff as well as copyediting everything. Feedback encouraged. Seems to be some needed additions (such a huge topic):
Lfstevens ( talk) 04:45, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Some links for future use:
Working on a second pass now. More issues:
What is with the revert, @ Viriditas:? And no explanation? Why not just tell me what the problem is and let me fix it? I don't edit war, so I won't revert your revert, but now what? Lfstevens ( talk) 18:33, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
Release. Viriditas ( talk) 01:15, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
I'll readily concede that half of those edits were improvements which made the article more concise. Unfortunately, half were not. Several long sentences were shortened and then divided into shorter sentences, resulting in a choppy or halting reading flow. The result is more suitable for a voiceover narration with dramatic pauses, the kind of thing associated with the late Richard Attenborough or Morgan Freeman, as opposed to formal written English.
Please remember that the Wikimedia Foundation maintains the Simple English Wikipedia for readers who have difficulty parsing long English sentences, while the English Wikipedia adheres to the conventions of formal written English. Any objections before I fix this? Coolcaesar ( talk) 17:21, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
Those were not run-on sentences. You do not understand the term.
For example, here is the first part of the paragraph on 5 February 2024 that explained one of the alleged causes of the wildfires (citations omitted for readability):
"During the 2010s and early 2020s, Clay Trauernicht, a botanist and fire scientist at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa, and several other experts warned that the decline of agriculture in Hawaii meant that large areas of formerly productive land had been left unmanaged; nonnative invasive species like guinea grass were spreading rapidly and increasing the risk of large wildfires. The state government failed to provide incentives or impose mandates to keep land clear of grass. The state government also did not require all structure owners to maintain defensible space, a standard rule in fire-prone states like California."
You divided the paragraph and revised it so that it now appears in the current version of the article as: "During the 2010s and early 2020s, botanist and fire scientist Clay Trauernicht, at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa, and other experts warned that the decline of agriculture in Hawaii had left large areas fallow and unmanaged. Homeowners and landlords failed to maintain defensible space around their properties. Power and water utilities failed to fire- and wind-proof their infrastructure. The state government failed to provide incentives or impose mandates to take proper precautions."
The first sentence in the original paragraph, which I drafted, is not a run-on sentence by any definition. It has two independent clauses, separated by a semicolon to imply that the second independent clause is explaining and elaborating upon the topic of the first independent clause.
The larger problem with your revisions is that you missed the entire point of the first paragraph and deleted it from the article. The point is not just that land had been left unmanaged, but that as a result of that, nonnative invasive species like guinea grass are running rampant and increasing the risk of wildfires. That's the specific threat which Trauernicht and other fire experts have been raising hell about for over a decade, as discussed at length in the cited sources. After your revisions, guinea grass is not mentioned at all in the article.
Those are just two errors out of over two dozen in your edits, but I think I've made my point. Unfortunately, the article has continued to evolve, and not all your edits are bad, so I can't do a wholesale revert back to the last good version. I'll have to go through this mess paragraph by paragraph to identify the ones that need to be rolled back and the ones that can stay. -- Coolcaesar ( talk) 17:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
I was hoping that time would heal some wounds and things could proceed. Now I see that my efforts to act in good faith are not welcome here. So I will proceed incrementally and attempt to gain consensus along the way. But this article needs help. With aloha. Lfstevens ( talk) 23:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)