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2024 Bryansk drone strikes was
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![]() | On 20 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from 2022–2023 western Russia attacks to Attacks in Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The result of the discussion was moved. |
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2022–2023 Western Russia attacks has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"The Russian Volunteer Corps, a far-right Russian nationalist group fighting against the Russian government, claimed responsibility for a brief incursion into neighboring Bryansk Oblast in March 2023."
This section is miss leading. The Russian Volunteer corps is a unit based in Ukraine as part of the Ukrainian foreign legion. We should substitute the Wikipedia description of this unit in here.
"a Russian nationalist paramilitary unit based in Ukraine." /info/en/?search=Russian_Volunteer_Corps
The section would now be clear that this is a Ukrainian based unit, the current description would miss lead people in to thinking this unit originated in the Russian Federation.
"The Russian Volunteer Corps, a Russian nationalist paramilitary unit based in Ukraine, claimed responsibility for a brief incursion into neighboring Bryansk Oblast in March 2023."
You can find information about them both on their own wiki pages and also in UK reporting. It is clear they crossed from Ukraine in to Russia. This is actually the second time.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/04/russian-neo-nazi-hooligan-who-led-anti-putin-militia-across/ Liger404 ( talk) 01:59, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Listing the FSB as one of the perpetrators (claimed) is akin to saying 9/11 was an inside job. It's glaringly obvious that the Ukrainians are launching attacks as retaliation for Russian bombing. This is pistachio-level IQ, seriously. 2601:85:C100:46C0:C8AA:52EF:B3C8:C8FC ( talk) 19:29, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
I propose that this article be split into two articles: 2022–2023 western Russia airstrikes, to cover most of the original scope of this article, and 2023 western Russia raids, to cover the land incursions by pro-Ukrainian all-Russian militants in summary style ( 2023 Bryansk Oblast attack, 2023 Belgorod Oblast attack, and the minor other incursions). I think this should be done because the raids aren't that related to the drone and artillery attacks that take up much of this article, and they all have common themes that should be consolidated in one place; eg: the claims of Ukrainian involvement, the motivations all apply to all the incidents. HappyWith ( talk) 18:16, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus. There was not a consensus on 25 June. It is now 25 July, and there has been no further discussion, despite three relists. ( closed by non-admin page mover) {{replyto| SilverLocust}} ( talk) 09:37, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
2022–2023 western Russia attacks → Western Russia attacks (2022–present) – Brackets are preferred, per consensus in this RM. We also sidestep the issue of whether or not to capitalize "Western". 90.255.6.219 ( talk) 12:39, 24 June 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Captain Jack Sparrow ( talk) 15:57, 1 July 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Sennecaster ( Chat) 00:05, 11 July 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. EggRoll97 ( talk) 07:56, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
This article consistently just sticks to citing Russian accounts of these events, and while it partially attributes a lot of the statements with words like "allegedly" and "reportedly", it never gives the Ukrainian or Western sides of the story - which is bizarre, considering that Russia has consistently lied far more often and contradicted itself throughout the war.
Example: When it's talking about the Bryansk oblast raid, it says [It] was reported that an Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance group made an incursion into Russian territory [...] The saboteurs allegedly fired into civilians, killing two adults and injuring two children, including one 11-year-old child.
. There is no mention of what the legionnaires themselves said to explain what they were doing, nor their denial of killing any civilians. It repeatedly calls them "Ukrainian saboteurs", and uses very vague language like "it was reported that X" to talk about statements from notoriously unreliable Russian state media that imply that the info is instead coming from a neutral independent actor.
Not to mention, there's also a lack of attribution of a lot of extreme claims from Russian government-aligned sources in general. I would fix this myself if I had more time - and I do plan to do a little fixing later - but I'm leaving this message here for other editors who could help, since it's a pretty long article. HappyWith ( talk) 20:45, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 23:32, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
2022–2023 western Russia attacks → Attacks in Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine – There's no reason why this article should only cover attacks in western Russia. It makes more sense to just cover all attacks in internationally recognized Russian territory here. It's debatable whether some of the incidents in this article, like the Moscow drone attacks, are even in western Russia - the article for Moscow describes the city as being in Central Russia. This should also solve the issue with the capitalization of "western" that has been argued over on the talk page. HappyWith ( talk) 22:01, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
![]() | The article
2024 Bryansk drone strikes was
nominated for
deletion.
The discussion was closed on 1 April 2024 with a consensus to
merge the content into
Attacks in Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. If you find that such action has not been taken promptly, please consider assisting in the merger instead of re-nominating the article for deletion. To discuss the merger, please use this talk page. Do not remove this template after completing the merger. A bot will replace it with {{
afd-merged-from}}. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Attacks in Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 365 days
![]() |
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to Eastern Europe or the Balkans, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 15 April 2022. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
Discussions:
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
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![]() | On 20 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from 2022–2023 western Russia attacks to Attacks in Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The result of the discussion was moved. |
![]() | This
edit request to
2022–2023 Western Russia attacks has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"The Russian Volunteer Corps, a far-right Russian nationalist group fighting against the Russian government, claimed responsibility for a brief incursion into neighboring Bryansk Oblast in March 2023."
This section is miss leading. The Russian Volunteer corps is a unit based in Ukraine as part of the Ukrainian foreign legion. We should substitute the Wikipedia description of this unit in here.
"a Russian nationalist paramilitary unit based in Ukraine." /info/en/?search=Russian_Volunteer_Corps
The section would now be clear that this is a Ukrainian based unit, the current description would miss lead people in to thinking this unit originated in the Russian Federation.
"The Russian Volunteer Corps, a Russian nationalist paramilitary unit based in Ukraine, claimed responsibility for a brief incursion into neighboring Bryansk Oblast in March 2023."
You can find information about them both on their own wiki pages and also in UK reporting. It is clear they crossed from Ukraine in to Russia. This is actually the second time.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/04/russian-neo-nazi-hooligan-who-led-anti-putin-militia-across/ Liger404 ( talk) 01:59, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Listing the FSB as one of the perpetrators (claimed) is akin to saying 9/11 was an inside job. It's glaringly obvious that the Ukrainians are launching attacks as retaliation for Russian bombing. This is pistachio-level IQ, seriously. 2601:85:C100:46C0:C8AA:52EF:B3C8:C8FC ( talk) 19:29, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
I propose that this article be split into two articles: 2022–2023 western Russia airstrikes, to cover most of the original scope of this article, and 2023 western Russia raids, to cover the land incursions by pro-Ukrainian all-Russian militants in summary style ( 2023 Bryansk Oblast attack, 2023 Belgorod Oblast attack, and the minor other incursions). I think this should be done because the raids aren't that related to the drone and artillery attacks that take up much of this article, and they all have common themes that should be consolidated in one place; eg: the claims of Ukrainian involvement, the motivations all apply to all the incidents. HappyWith ( talk) 18:16, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus. There was not a consensus on 25 June. It is now 25 July, and there has been no further discussion, despite three relists. ( closed by non-admin page mover) {{replyto| SilverLocust}} ( talk) 09:37, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
2022–2023 western Russia attacks → Western Russia attacks (2022–present) – Brackets are preferred, per consensus in this RM. We also sidestep the issue of whether or not to capitalize "Western". 90.255.6.219 ( talk) 12:39, 24 June 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Captain Jack Sparrow ( talk) 15:57, 1 July 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Sennecaster ( Chat) 00:05, 11 July 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. EggRoll97 ( talk) 07:56, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
This article consistently just sticks to citing Russian accounts of these events, and while it partially attributes a lot of the statements with words like "allegedly" and "reportedly", it never gives the Ukrainian or Western sides of the story - which is bizarre, considering that Russia has consistently lied far more often and contradicted itself throughout the war.
Example: When it's talking about the Bryansk oblast raid, it says [It] was reported that an Ukrainian sabotage and reconnaissance group made an incursion into Russian territory [...] The saboteurs allegedly fired into civilians, killing two adults and injuring two children, including one 11-year-old child.
. There is no mention of what the legionnaires themselves said to explain what they were doing, nor their denial of killing any civilians. It repeatedly calls them "Ukrainian saboteurs", and uses very vague language like "it was reported that X" to talk about statements from notoriously unreliable Russian state media that imply that the info is instead coming from a neutral independent actor.
Not to mention, there's also a lack of attribution of a lot of extreme claims from Russian government-aligned sources in general. I would fix this myself if I had more time - and I do plan to do a little fixing later - but I'm leaving this message here for other editors who could help, since it's a pretty long article. HappyWith ( talk) 20:45, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 23:32, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
2022–2023 western Russia attacks → Attacks in Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine – There's no reason why this article should only cover attacks in western Russia. It makes more sense to just cover all attacks in internationally recognized Russian territory here. It's debatable whether some of the incidents in this article, like the Moscow drone attacks, are even in western Russia - the article for Moscow describes the city as being in Central Russia. This should also solve the issue with the capitalization of "western" that has been argued over on the talk page. HappyWith ( talk) 22:01, 20 September 2023 (UTC)