This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cue sports, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
pool,
carom billiards and other
cue sports on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cue sportsWikipedia:WikiProject Cue sportsTemplate:WikiProject Cue sportscue sports articles
Internal pages: Something like:
[2][3]). Such pages are not fluff, but can be good places to find recruits for the project, possibly including subject-matter experts, especially if cross-referenced to the project. Also,
Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cue sports (cf.
[4][5][6]).
Create timelines, both textual and graphical. See link for various guidelines and examples. We need an overall one for cue sports generally, and more specific ones as we drill down into more specific topics (timeline of
nine-ball, timeline of
Willie Mosconi's career, etc.).
Form sections:
Exhibition game needs section on cue sports; could later form a new article with "Main article..." xref to it. What other general articles need cue sports sections?
Images: improve articles with images from commons; create pics and add them to commons as GFDL/CC-by/PD.
Add: {{Sport overview}} to main articles of cue games that are real sports; medal table tags where they apply (see
Ding Junhui for example).
Insert: Cue sports events (tournament results, etc.) into the "year in sports" categories (e.g.
1965 in sports), using {{subst:
Cue sports heading}} if that year doesn't have one yet.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Snooker, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
snooker on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SnookerWikipedia:WikiProject SnookerTemplate:WikiProject SnookerSnooker articles
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk) 00:24, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment: Really want to say that he set fire to his cue tip (as that's what he's doing.) I'll keep an eye out for better sourcing.
Event is still in process, so might find more hooks soon.
5x expanded by
Lee Vilenski (
talk). Self-nominated at 22:24, 10 January 2021 (UTC).reply
@
Lee Vilenski: Having looked at the source, if you did want to say he set his cue tip on fire as a hook, I would be happy to support and review that as a hook because to me " burning the tip" does mean he set it on fire. The C of E God Save the Queen! (
talk) 16:53, 14 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Date and length fine. Hook is sourced inline and I am approving ALT1. QPQ done with no close paraphrasing. I would suggest as it is an ongoing event, we hold off running it until it finishes to let it settle down a bit. Good to go. The C of E God Save the Queen! (
talk) 17:58, 14 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Accuracy
Lee Vilenski, regarding these two edits,
[7][8] the article currently says:
Steve Davis referred to Yan as "naive" and that he needed a "flying start and get his tail up" to win the match in the second session.
However, the facts, as reported by the inline source, are as follows:
The source says "Possessing a solid and unspectacular style of play, Yan displayed some naive shot selection at times in the opening session, but his calm demeanour never changes and he recovered to shock the heavy pre-match favourite." In this sentence, some of his shots were criticized as naive, and nowhere is this criticism attributed to Steve Davis.
The above quoted words "flying start and get his tail up" do not appear anywhere in the source text. Nothing remotely similar is said; the words "flying" or "tail" do not appear at all, much less attributed to Davis.
The only words attributed to Davis in the source are:
Even though there was no crowd, the tension can arrive on a snooker table between two players, the pressures are still there. You have to pot the balls and put the last one in to kill off frames.
"We see it so often that players bottle it under pressure but fantastic for Yan, he played so well.
"There will be millions of people watching back in China who will know he has a chance at the World Championship coming up.
"I was impressed with his temperament, his nerve and that was as mature a performance we've seen since we saw John Higgins win here.
So, virtually nothing in the disputed sentence corresponds to what the source actually said.
GregorB (
talk) 15:29, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
It looks like the BBC article was updated at the end of the final and the wording doesn't now appear in the article. You can see Davis's comment here
[9] at 16:17 on 17 Jan, so that link could be used to support the quote. --
Bcp67 (
talk) 16:27, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Check the archived copy, which is the one that was being sourced. These news sources are quite often usurped like this. The archived copy IS in the source provided. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 18:02, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Internet archive is down at the moment, but AGF on that, and problem solved. The statement caught my attention because it seemed a bit disparaging, and it deviated quite a bit in tone from Davis' final remarks - but that's not too surprising really, because Yan was trailing at the time.
GregorB (
talk) 08:41, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Personally, I can do without statements like "Steve Davis said ...", even if they are sourced. Such comments are ok on the back page of a newspaper, but we're meant to be an encyclopedia.
Nigej (
talk) 09:28, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure I agree. Having colour describing the matches is quite suitable. We would have what the players say about themselves in a summary and having expert opinions regarding how the play was is significantly better than us writing how the session played out in wikipedia's voice. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 12:30, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
However, per
WP:UNDUE, just cherry-picking a few quotes from Steve Davis doesn't really give an unbiased view of things. How do we cover all experts' opinions; just impossible. Better to have none. IMO
Nigej (
talk) 12:41, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Hardly cherry picking, considering quotes are used throughout the article in this way. It's hardly a minority viewpoint, which is what UNDUE refers to. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 14:04, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Of course expert commentary is relevant, and there is no doubt Steve Davis is an expert. What is slightly concerning to me here is whether reducing his comments to a single dismissive statement is actually representative of his views or not (cf. quote given above: "impressed with his temperament, his nerve").
GregorB (
talk) 15:17, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Exactly. If Steve Davis had written a book on the Masters or Yan Bingtao, then his considered comments would perhaps be worth noting. But surely a few spur-of-the-moment throw-away remarks made during hours of commentary shouldn't be here.
Nigej (
talk) 16:35, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
The fact these were removed from the final version of the article also suggests they are of lesser importance.
GregorB (
talk) 19:52, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
I mean we can remove these, but I feel a comment about the first session, and a similar one after the event, saying how he was impressed with his temperament is quite representative of the final. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 21:27, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
"The 16 highest-ranked players according to the world rankings after the 2020 UK Championship in December 2020 were invited to the event.[5] [6] " didn't you just say something like that already? And no spaces between rrefs.
I don't see an issue particularly the first link is more about the restrictions, whilst when we talk about in the body, it's about the disease itself. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)reply
" Joe Perry replaced Trump in the draw, while Gary Wilson replaced Lisowski.[7] Anthony McGill, ranked 17th, would have been the first reserve player but declined to travel to the event,[8] whilst Barry Hawkins, ranked 18th tested positive for COVID-19.[9]" I would put this the other way round, and say that 17th declined, 18th was positive for COVID, so 19th and 20th (presumably??) played instead.
"Gary Wilson in the opening match. Gary Wilson, world ranking number 18, made his debut at" merge, e.g. "Gary Wilson, world ranking number 18, in the opening match, who was making his debut at"?
"Ken Doherty, the 1997 world champion, commented" you already introduced Ken, so move that world champ stuff there, and no need to repeat his first name here.
I just noticed last year's article is featured. Surprised no-one asked you to describe the scoring mechanism of snooker along with all rules...
I dodged a bullet. I am awaiting someone to expect a note on every page that needs to explain that snooker is a cue sport... a sport played with a cue, a cue being a piece of wood. :P Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)reply
"by John Higgins in his quarter-final match with Ronnie O'Sullivan" why the first names again? And all the players are overlinked here, no?
Sorry, to confirm, this should be as a publisher, not as the work? Or, did you want them in italics? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 15:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cue sports, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
pool,
carom billiards and other
cue sports on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cue sportsWikipedia:WikiProject Cue sportsTemplate:WikiProject Cue sportscue sports articles
Internal pages: Something like:
[2][3]). Such pages are not fluff, but can be good places to find recruits for the project, possibly including subject-matter experts, especially if cross-referenced to the project. Also,
Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cue sports (cf.
[4][5][6]).
Create timelines, both textual and graphical. See link for various guidelines and examples. We need an overall one for cue sports generally, and more specific ones as we drill down into more specific topics (timeline of
nine-ball, timeline of
Willie Mosconi's career, etc.).
Form sections:
Exhibition game needs section on cue sports; could later form a new article with "Main article..." xref to it. What other general articles need cue sports sections?
Images: improve articles with images from commons; create pics and add them to commons as GFDL/CC-by/PD.
Add: {{Sport overview}} to main articles of cue games that are real sports; medal table tags where they apply (see
Ding Junhui for example).
Insert: Cue sports events (tournament results, etc.) into the "year in sports" categories (e.g.
1965 in sports), using {{subst:
Cue sports heading}} if that year doesn't have one yet.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Snooker, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
snooker on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SnookerWikipedia:WikiProject SnookerTemplate:WikiProject SnookerSnooker articles
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk) 00:24, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment: Really want to say that he set fire to his cue tip (as that's what he's doing.) I'll keep an eye out for better sourcing.
Event is still in process, so might find more hooks soon.
5x expanded by
Lee Vilenski (
talk). Self-nominated at 22:24, 10 January 2021 (UTC).reply
@
Lee Vilenski: Having looked at the source, if you did want to say he set his cue tip on fire as a hook, I would be happy to support and review that as a hook because to me " burning the tip" does mean he set it on fire. The C of E God Save the Queen! (
talk) 16:53, 14 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Date and length fine. Hook is sourced inline and I am approving ALT1. QPQ done with no close paraphrasing. I would suggest as it is an ongoing event, we hold off running it until it finishes to let it settle down a bit. Good to go. The C of E God Save the Queen! (
talk) 17:58, 14 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Accuracy
Lee Vilenski, regarding these two edits,
[7][8] the article currently says:
Steve Davis referred to Yan as "naive" and that he needed a "flying start and get his tail up" to win the match in the second session.
However, the facts, as reported by the inline source, are as follows:
The source says "Possessing a solid and unspectacular style of play, Yan displayed some naive shot selection at times in the opening session, but his calm demeanour never changes and he recovered to shock the heavy pre-match favourite." In this sentence, some of his shots were criticized as naive, and nowhere is this criticism attributed to Steve Davis.
The above quoted words "flying start and get his tail up" do not appear anywhere in the source text. Nothing remotely similar is said; the words "flying" or "tail" do not appear at all, much less attributed to Davis.
The only words attributed to Davis in the source are:
Even though there was no crowd, the tension can arrive on a snooker table between two players, the pressures are still there. You have to pot the balls and put the last one in to kill off frames.
"We see it so often that players bottle it under pressure but fantastic for Yan, he played so well.
"There will be millions of people watching back in China who will know he has a chance at the World Championship coming up.
"I was impressed with his temperament, his nerve and that was as mature a performance we've seen since we saw John Higgins win here.
So, virtually nothing in the disputed sentence corresponds to what the source actually said.
GregorB (
talk) 15:29, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
It looks like the BBC article was updated at the end of the final and the wording doesn't now appear in the article. You can see Davis's comment here
[9] at 16:17 on 17 Jan, so that link could be used to support the quote. --
Bcp67 (
talk) 16:27, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Check the archived copy, which is the one that was being sourced. These news sources are quite often usurped like this. The archived copy IS in the source provided. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 18:02, 19 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Internet archive is down at the moment, but AGF on that, and problem solved. The statement caught my attention because it seemed a bit disparaging, and it deviated quite a bit in tone from Davis' final remarks - but that's not too surprising really, because Yan was trailing at the time.
GregorB (
talk) 08:41, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Personally, I can do without statements like "Steve Davis said ...", even if they are sourced. Such comments are ok on the back page of a newspaper, but we're meant to be an encyclopedia.
Nigej (
talk) 09:28, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure I agree. Having colour describing the matches is quite suitable. We would have what the players say about themselves in a summary and having expert opinions regarding how the play was is significantly better than us writing how the session played out in wikipedia's voice. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 12:30, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
However, per
WP:UNDUE, just cherry-picking a few quotes from Steve Davis doesn't really give an unbiased view of things. How do we cover all experts' opinions; just impossible. Better to have none. IMO
Nigej (
talk) 12:41, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Hardly cherry picking, considering quotes are used throughout the article in this way. It's hardly a minority viewpoint, which is what UNDUE refers to. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 14:04, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Of course expert commentary is relevant, and there is no doubt Steve Davis is an expert. What is slightly concerning to me here is whether reducing his comments to a single dismissive statement is actually representative of his views or not (cf. quote given above: "impressed with his temperament, his nerve").
GregorB (
talk) 15:17, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Exactly. If Steve Davis had written a book on the Masters or Yan Bingtao, then his considered comments would perhaps be worth noting. But surely a few spur-of-the-moment throw-away remarks made during hours of commentary shouldn't be here.
Nigej (
talk) 16:35, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
The fact these were removed from the final version of the article also suggests they are of lesser importance.
GregorB (
talk) 19:52, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
I mean we can remove these, but I feel a comment about the first session, and a similar one after the event, saying how he was impressed with his temperament is quite representative of the final. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 21:27, 21 January 2021 (UTC)reply
"The 16 highest-ranked players according to the world rankings after the 2020 UK Championship in December 2020 were invited to the event.[5] [6] " didn't you just say something like that already? And no spaces between rrefs.
I don't see an issue particularly the first link is more about the restrictions, whilst when we talk about in the body, it's about the disease itself. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)reply
" Joe Perry replaced Trump in the draw, while Gary Wilson replaced Lisowski.[7] Anthony McGill, ranked 17th, would have been the first reserve player but declined to travel to the event,[8] whilst Barry Hawkins, ranked 18th tested positive for COVID-19.[9]" I would put this the other way round, and say that 17th declined, 18th was positive for COVID, so 19th and 20th (presumably??) played instead.
"Gary Wilson in the opening match. Gary Wilson, world ranking number 18, made his debut at" merge, e.g. "Gary Wilson, world ranking number 18, in the opening match, who was making his debut at"?
"Ken Doherty, the 1997 world champion, commented" you already introduced Ken, so move that world champ stuff there, and no need to repeat his first name here.
I just noticed last year's article is featured. Surprised no-one asked you to describe the scoring mechanism of snooker along with all rules...
I dodged a bullet. I am awaiting someone to expect a note on every page that needs to explain that snooker is a cue sport... a sport played with a cue, a cue being a piece of wood. :P Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)reply
"by John Higgins in his quarter-final match with Ronnie O'Sullivan" why the first names again? And all the players are overlinked here, no?
Sorry, to confirm, this should be as a publisher, not as the work? Or, did you want them in italics? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs) 15:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC)reply