2020 World Snooker Championship is a
featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the
Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it,
please do so.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cue sports, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
pool,
carom billiards and other
cue sports on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cue sportsWikipedia:WikiProject Cue sportsTemplate:WikiProject Cue sportscue sports articles
Internal pages: Something like:
[2][3]). Such pages are not fluff, but can be good places to find recruits for the project, possibly including subject-matter experts, especially if cross-referenced to the project. Also,
Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cue sports (cf.
[4][5][6]).
Create timelines, both textual and graphical. See link for various guidelines and examples. We need an overall one for cue sports generally, and more specific ones as we drill down into more specific topics (timeline of
nine-ball, timeline of
Willie Mosconi's career, etc.).
Form sections:
Exhibition game needs section on cue sports; could later form a new article with "Main article..." xref to it. What other general articles need cue sports sections?
Images: improve articles with images from commons; create pics and add them to commons as GFDL/CC-by/PD.
Add: {{Sport overview}} to main articles of cue games that are real sports; medal table tags where they apply (see
Ding Junhui for example).
Insert: Cue sports events (tournament results, etc.) into the "year in sports" categories (e.g.
1965 in sports), using {{subst:
Cue sports heading}} if that year doesn't have one yet.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sheffield, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Sheffield on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SheffieldWikipedia:WikiProject SheffieldTemplate:WikiProject SheffieldSheffield articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Snooker, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
snooker on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SnookerWikipedia:WikiProject SnookerTemplate:WikiProject SnookerSnooker articles
2020 World Snooker Championship is within the scope of WikiProject Yorkshire, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to
Yorkshire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project, see a list of open tasks, and join in discussions on the project's talk page.YorkshireWikipedia:WikiProject YorkshireTemplate:WikiProject YorkshireYorkshire articles
I have filled in the seeds for the first four matches, but I am not sure whether to use "nowrap"? It seems it is not the best way to do it because of different showings on different screens? Should there be some changes to the template? Best wishes,
Mrloop (
talk)
14:42, 26 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Hi
Mrloop - thanks for putting the effort in here, and discussing this one.
WP:NOWRAP is only for things that should always appear on one line (examples are on the link, but things like weight conversions). Names don't meet this, unless hyphenated, so you should: use
What source are we using for the three-letter country codes in this article, and snooker articles in general? They seem to follow FIFA codes, which doesn't really make a lot of sense. The official World Snooker website tends to use ISO codes for non-UK nations, many of which are the same as the ones we're using, but with a few notable differences (for example, DEU for Germany, CHE for Switzerland, MYS for Malaysia), and they also seem to use SCT for Scotland, rather than SCO. Is there a reason why we're not using the codes used by World Snooker? Most other sports articles on Wikipedia display the country codes that are used by their governing bodies.
Edin75 (
talk)
17:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)reply
I was just curious, to be honest. Most sports' governing bodies use IOC codes these days, football obviously uses FIFA codes, and Wikipedia articles tend to use the relevant codes for each sport. World Snooker is unusual with its use of ISO codes, but I'm not really a fan of the likes of SCT, DEU and CHE anyway, so I'm happy to leave it as it is! I just wanted to know if there was a specific source that we're using.
Edin75 (
talk)
18:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Use of flags
All those flags in the Qualifying section.. I don't know, it just looks idiotic. Shouldn't flags be restricted to draw sheets and maybe ('vertical') lists of players?
Mrloop (
talk)
10:39, 11 July 2020 (UTC)reply
I added information about Ronnie O'Sullivan's record breaking 28th consecutive Crucible appearance. This was
reverted as "hardly lede worthy". Please could those with more knowledge of snooker articles than me assist with adding it to the correct place in the article. Cheers. --
Jameboy (
talk)
08:20, 9 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Sure. I was going to add this to the body, most likely in the first round section. The issue of chucking this in the lede is that whilst true, it's not particularly notable. It's quite likely this will also be true next year, so would be a bit irrelevant for this tournament. It's also only talking about the event since the 1970s, and the event itself has been held since 1927. The
WP:LEDE should be a summary of the rest of the article, covering the most notable parts, and should be readable on its own. A reasonably random statistic about O'Sullivan in a summary of the event (the location, dates, money, event winner, etc) seems out of place. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)08:32, 9 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Copyvio and plagiarism check: Used Earwig's Copyvio Detector. WST 32.4% match is mostly direct attributed quotes, but also the phrase "set a new record for the most combined points in a single frame at the Crucible." I suggest considering whether there is another reasonable way to include that information.
Yahoo 37.5% match is a direct attributed quote and a very common phrasing. WST 20% match is a direct attributed quote and common phrasings. 18.7% match seems to be a mirror site; 17.4% match is names and common phrasing, 16.7% match is a directly attributed quote and common phrasing; 16% match is a directly attributed quote and common phrasing; 15.3% match is a directly attributed quote and common phrasing. Reviewed the other matches of 9.9% and above, and no concerns from those.
Happy to discuss, or be challenged on, any of my comments. I've made a few minor copyedits where I thought they would be uncontroversial.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 09:38, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Lee Vilenski - My comments are below, nothing major. I'll look at the lead after reviewing your responses. Thanks. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk)
13:01, 28 August 2020 (UTC)reply
"tenth career maximum break" / "his first at the World Championship" / "aged 45" / "he became the oldest player to make a maximum in a professional competition" don't seem to appear in the body of the article or be supported by a reference.
Why not use a more recent source for "Stephen Hendry is the event's most successful participant in the modern era"? (It's still true, but I think a link that includes champions after 2012 would be better.)
In the Snooker Scene reference, rather than "|issue=August 2020 |publisher=Halesowen: Snooker Scene Ltd.", I think it should be "|date=August 2020 |publisher=Snooker Scene Ltd. |location=Halesowen"
Maybe "In other countries, Matchroom Sport.." to "In all other countries ..." - at first I took this to mean "some other countries" whereas the source supports it being all others.
"..with 16 players progressing." Maybe a slight amendment to "..with 16 players progressing into the main draw." (Might be too picky, but every player who won a match progressed to the next round.)
As " Challenge Tour play-off" is currently redlinked, consider expanding "won the Challenge Tour play-off to gain a two-year professional tour card" to include a brief explanation.
"and [Ford] attempted a maximum break" - I think something like "was on track for ..." would be more appropriate unless there's a source where Ford says he was aiming for a maximum. (I'm reminded of that old snooker hall comment made after someone pots the first red and a black - "he's on for a maximum".)
"averaged less than 14 seconds per shot" - add a bit of context, even though the article goes on to cover this being the quickest best-of-19. (Perhaps
this is a source?)
Reword to remove duplication of "next two" in the sentence about the Higgins/Maflin match. It also appears in the following sentence. "next three" also appears in consecutive sentences. ("Next" is in the article quite a few times, maybe use some more synonyms?)
Unable to verify " a record 28th consecutive appearance at the event" via "Live Snooker: World Championship". Snooker on Eurosport. 1 August 2020. 133 minutes in. Eurosport. Eurosport 1 HD" as it's unavailable. Is there a more accessible source? (I expected to find one easily, but didn't.)
No. And I know it's one of those things that O'Sullivan fans think is super important (I tried to remove it). I also thought it would be easy to cite (hoping again for Snooker Scene to the rescue). Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)22:07, 30 August 2020 (UTC)reply
"The pair were calmed..." - not sure about this, given the description in the source including the way McGill subsequently followed Clarke out of the arena.
The source only talks about the Crucible curse going back to 1977, whereas I think the article rightly says that the "curse" extends back further. May need a further source. (And although off-topic for this review,
Crucible curse may need an update).
The Crucible curse only applies to the Crucible. So, 1977. I've changed. Personally, I think it's a lot of media hullabaloo, but it's what people talk about. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)22:24, 30 August 2020 (UTC)reply
"most century breaks of any player this season", "just one short of Neil Robertson's record in 2013–14" - not supported by live version of the source, and the archive link redirects to the live version.
AGF on The Telegraph for 9 August. (Archive only shows the start of the article for me, may need a "registration" or "subscription" marker in the citation)
"contested their first quarter-finals" - add something to say world championship or Crucible, as both have previously reached ranking tournament quarter finals.
"Kyren Wilson, who had reached this stage once before in 2018", "Anthony McGill who had not reached the semi-finals previously" - not supported by source cited.
Maybe add something like "..of World Snooker Tour"? Readers might otherwise expect this to go directly to a page specifically about the 2020 World Snooker Championship.
Images - logo use is fine as established at FA articles (e.g.
2018 World Snooker Championship). No issues found with the photos.
There are recent reversions in the article history, but nothing that looks like a current edit war. (Having had another look at the page history since writing this, need to keep an eye on this.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk)
18:15, 28 August 2020 (UTC))reply
Thanks
Lee Vilenski. I'm happy with all of the responses - one further question about Challenge Tour above, but it's not a blocker. A cite error relating to "wst._Wils" has crept in. I've now had a look at the lead (as I prefer to do this last) and there seem to be a few points there that aren't included in the body of the article and are unreferenced. (See above.) Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk)
23:17, 30 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks
Lee Vilenski. I'm not seeing the support for "aged 45, he became the oldest player" (re Higgins' 147) in the cited source - or is it in the video on that page? That's the only pending issue. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk)
18:21, 31 August 2020 (UTC)reply
"Selby cleared until the final red, and a series of safety shots were played, with O'Sullivan playing controlled shots that he had previously not, and potted match ball after Selby failed to escape a snooker.[134]"
Mark Selby did not fail to escape from the snooker. He swerved round the black; hit the red; caught the far knuckle of the middle jaw and failed to leave the red safe. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
193.60.168.75 (
talk)
05:27, 9 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Recent changes to the lede
Hi, recently the lede has been changed quite a bit specifically the order of the highest break, which we usually have as the last item, with (somewhat randomly) the winning/final of the event. See
this response when asking the user to
bold, revert, discuss, so I'll start a discussion here in its stead.
In my eyes, the winner of the event is significantly more notable than that of the highest break, so should precede it in the lede. Any thoughts appreciated Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)17:35, 28 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Agree. The lead should have the most important information first. Completely wrong to retain a chronological order with the winner listed last.
Nigej (
talk)
20:04, 28 August 2020 (UTC)reply
I agree, too. The lede doesn't have to be purely chronological, as I presume the other editor(s) are aiming for. The importance of the summarized information is what counts. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk)20:40, 28 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Yes, those of us who have done a lot of work on the World Championship articles have established a consistent structure for the lead, where the last paragraph covers (1) what happened to the defending champion, (2) the winner of the event and who he beat in the final, and (3) highest break info. Presenting the information consistently in the lead is more important than presenting it chronologically which is just likely to confuse the reader.
Rodney Baggins (
talk)
09:18, 29 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Just out of interest, the
Lead paragraph wiki article mentions "grabbing the attention of the reader", "the most important, interesting or attention-grabbing elements", "emphasize the interesting points of the article"; nowhere does it say anything about presenting the information 'chronologically'.
Rodney Baggins (
talk)
09:24, 29 August 2020 (UTC)reply
2020 World Snooker Championship is a
featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the
Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it,
please do so.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cue sports, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
pool,
carom billiards and other
cue sports on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cue sportsWikipedia:WikiProject Cue sportsTemplate:WikiProject Cue sportscue sports articles
Internal pages: Something like:
[2][3]). Such pages are not fluff, but can be good places to find recruits for the project, possibly including subject-matter experts, especially if cross-referenced to the project. Also,
Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cue sports (cf.
[4][5][6]).
Create timelines, both textual and graphical. See link for various guidelines and examples. We need an overall one for cue sports generally, and more specific ones as we drill down into more specific topics (timeline of
nine-ball, timeline of
Willie Mosconi's career, etc.).
Form sections:
Exhibition game needs section on cue sports; could later form a new article with "Main article..." xref to it. What other general articles need cue sports sections?
Images: improve articles with images from commons; create pics and add them to commons as GFDL/CC-by/PD.
Add: {{Sport overview}} to main articles of cue games that are real sports; medal table tags where they apply (see
Ding Junhui for example).
Insert: Cue sports events (tournament results, etc.) into the "year in sports" categories (e.g.
1965 in sports), using {{subst:
Cue sports heading}} if that year doesn't have one yet.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sheffield, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Sheffield on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SheffieldWikipedia:WikiProject SheffieldTemplate:WikiProject SheffieldSheffield articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Snooker, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
snooker on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SnookerWikipedia:WikiProject SnookerTemplate:WikiProject SnookerSnooker articles
2020 World Snooker Championship is within the scope of WikiProject Yorkshire, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to
Yorkshire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project, see a list of open tasks, and join in discussions on the project's talk page.YorkshireWikipedia:WikiProject YorkshireTemplate:WikiProject YorkshireYorkshire articles
I have filled in the seeds for the first four matches, but I am not sure whether to use "nowrap"? It seems it is not the best way to do it because of different showings on different screens? Should there be some changes to the template? Best wishes,
Mrloop (
talk)
14:42, 26 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Hi
Mrloop - thanks for putting the effort in here, and discussing this one.
WP:NOWRAP is only for things that should always appear on one line (examples are on the link, but things like weight conversions). Names don't meet this, unless hyphenated, so you should: use
What source are we using for the three-letter country codes in this article, and snooker articles in general? They seem to follow FIFA codes, which doesn't really make a lot of sense. The official World Snooker website tends to use ISO codes for non-UK nations, many of which are the same as the ones we're using, but with a few notable differences (for example, DEU for Germany, CHE for Switzerland, MYS for Malaysia), and they also seem to use SCT for Scotland, rather than SCO. Is there a reason why we're not using the codes used by World Snooker? Most other sports articles on Wikipedia display the country codes that are used by their governing bodies.
Edin75 (
talk)
17:40, 9 July 2020 (UTC)reply
I was just curious, to be honest. Most sports' governing bodies use IOC codes these days, football obviously uses FIFA codes, and Wikipedia articles tend to use the relevant codes for each sport. World Snooker is unusual with its use of ISO codes, but I'm not really a fan of the likes of SCT, DEU and CHE anyway, so I'm happy to leave it as it is! I just wanted to know if there was a specific source that we're using.
Edin75 (
talk)
18:12, 9 July 2020 (UTC)reply
Use of flags
All those flags in the Qualifying section.. I don't know, it just looks idiotic. Shouldn't flags be restricted to draw sheets and maybe ('vertical') lists of players?
Mrloop (
talk)
10:39, 11 July 2020 (UTC)reply
I added information about Ronnie O'Sullivan's record breaking 28th consecutive Crucible appearance. This was
reverted as "hardly lede worthy". Please could those with more knowledge of snooker articles than me assist with adding it to the correct place in the article. Cheers. --
Jameboy (
talk)
08:20, 9 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Sure. I was going to add this to the body, most likely in the first round section. The issue of chucking this in the lede is that whilst true, it's not particularly notable. It's quite likely this will also be true next year, so would be a bit irrelevant for this tournament. It's also only talking about the event since the 1970s, and the event itself has been held since 1927. The
WP:LEDE should be a summary of the rest of the article, covering the most notable parts, and should be readable on its own. A reasonably random statistic about O'Sullivan in a summary of the event (the location, dates, money, event winner, etc) seems out of place. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)08:32, 9 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Copyvio and plagiarism check: Used Earwig's Copyvio Detector. WST 32.4% match is mostly direct attributed quotes, but also the phrase "set a new record for the most combined points in a single frame at the Crucible." I suggest considering whether there is another reasonable way to include that information.
Yahoo 37.5% match is a direct attributed quote and a very common phrasing. WST 20% match is a direct attributed quote and common phrasings. 18.7% match seems to be a mirror site; 17.4% match is names and common phrasing, 16.7% match is a directly attributed quote and common phrasing; 16% match is a directly attributed quote and common phrasing; 15.3% match is a directly attributed quote and common phrasing. Reviewed the other matches of 9.9% and above, and no concerns from those.
Happy to discuss, or be challenged on, any of my comments. I've made a few minor copyedits where I thought they would be uncontroversial.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 09:38, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
Lee Vilenski - My comments are below, nothing major. I'll look at the lead after reviewing your responses. Thanks. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk)
13:01, 28 August 2020 (UTC)reply
"tenth career maximum break" / "his first at the World Championship" / "aged 45" / "he became the oldest player to make a maximum in a professional competition" don't seem to appear in the body of the article or be supported by a reference.
Why not use a more recent source for "Stephen Hendry is the event's most successful participant in the modern era"? (It's still true, but I think a link that includes champions after 2012 would be better.)
In the Snooker Scene reference, rather than "|issue=August 2020 |publisher=Halesowen: Snooker Scene Ltd.", I think it should be "|date=August 2020 |publisher=Snooker Scene Ltd. |location=Halesowen"
Maybe "In other countries, Matchroom Sport.." to "In all other countries ..." - at first I took this to mean "some other countries" whereas the source supports it being all others.
"..with 16 players progressing." Maybe a slight amendment to "..with 16 players progressing into the main draw." (Might be too picky, but every player who won a match progressed to the next round.)
As " Challenge Tour play-off" is currently redlinked, consider expanding "won the Challenge Tour play-off to gain a two-year professional tour card" to include a brief explanation.
"and [Ford] attempted a maximum break" - I think something like "was on track for ..." would be more appropriate unless there's a source where Ford says he was aiming for a maximum. (I'm reminded of that old snooker hall comment made after someone pots the first red and a black - "he's on for a maximum".)
"averaged less than 14 seconds per shot" - add a bit of context, even though the article goes on to cover this being the quickest best-of-19. (Perhaps
this is a source?)
Reword to remove duplication of "next two" in the sentence about the Higgins/Maflin match. It also appears in the following sentence. "next three" also appears in consecutive sentences. ("Next" is in the article quite a few times, maybe use some more synonyms?)
Unable to verify " a record 28th consecutive appearance at the event" via "Live Snooker: World Championship". Snooker on Eurosport. 1 August 2020. 133 minutes in. Eurosport. Eurosport 1 HD" as it's unavailable. Is there a more accessible source? (I expected to find one easily, but didn't.)
No. And I know it's one of those things that O'Sullivan fans think is super important (I tried to remove it). I also thought it would be easy to cite (hoping again for Snooker Scene to the rescue). Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)22:07, 30 August 2020 (UTC)reply
"The pair were calmed..." - not sure about this, given the description in the source including the way McGill subsequently followed Clarke out of the arena.
The source only talks about the Crucible curse going back to 1977, whereas I think the article rightly says that the "curse" extends back further. May need a further source. (And although off-topic for this review,
Crucible curse may need an update).
The Crucible curse only applies to the Crucible. So, 1977. I've changed. Personally, I think it's a lot of media hullabaloo, but it's what people talk about. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)22:24, 30 August 2020 (UTC)reply
"most century breaks of any player this season", "just one short of Neil Robertson's record in 2013–14" - not supported by live version of the source, and the archive link redirects to the live version.
AGF on The Telegraph for 9 August. (Archive only shows the start of the article for me, may need a "registration" or "subscription" marker in the citation)
"contested their first quarter-finals" - add something to say world championship or Crucible, as both have previously reached ranking tournament quarter finals.
"Kyren Wilson, who had reached this stage once before in 2018", "Anthony McGill who had not reached the semi-finals previously" - not supported by source cited.
Maybe add something like "..of World Snooker Tour"? Readers might otherwise expect this to go directly to a page specifically about the 2020 World Snooker Championship.
Images - logo use is fine as established at FA articles (e.g.
2018 World Snooker Championship). No issues found with the photos.
There are recent reversions in the article history, but nothing that looks like a current edit war. (Having had another look at the page history since writing this, need to keep an eye on this.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk)
18:15, 28 August 2020 (UTC))reply
Thanks
Lee Vilenski. I'm happy with all of the responses - one further question about Challenge Tour above, but it's not a blocker. A cite error relating to "wst._Wils" has crept in. I've now had a look at the lead (as I prefer to do this last) and there seem to be a few points there that aren't included in the body of the article and are unreferenced. (See above.) Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk)
23:17, 30 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks
Lee Vilenski. I'm not seeing the support for "aged 45, he became the oldest player" (re Higgins' 147) in the cited source - or is it in the video on that page? That's the only pending issue. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk)
18:21, 31 August 2020 (UTC)reply
"Selby cleared until the final red, and a series of safety shots were played, with O'Sullivan playing controlled shots that he had previously not, and potted match ball after Selby failed to escape a snooker.[134]"
Mark Selby did not fail to escape from the snooker. He swerved round the black; hit the red; caught the far knuckle of the middle jaw and failed to leave the red safe. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
193.60.168.75 (
talk)
05:27, 9 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Recent changes to the lede
Hi, recently the lede has been changed quite a bit specifically the order of the highest break, which we usually have as the last item, with (somewhat randomly) the winning/final of the event. See
this response when asking the user to
bold, revert, discuss, so I'll start a discussion here in its stead.
In my eyes, the winner of the event is significantly more notable than that of the highest break, so should precede it in the lede. Any thoughts appreciated Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski(
talk •
contribs)17:35, 28 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Agree. The lead should have the most important information first. Completely wrong to retain a chronological order with the winner listed last.
Nigej (
talk)
20:04, 28 August 2020 (UTC)reply
I agree, too. The lede doesn't have to be purely chronological, as I presume the other editor(s) are aiming for. The importance of the summarized information is what counts. —
JohnFromPinckney (
talk)20:40, 28 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Yes, those of us who have done a lot of work on the World Championship articles have established a consistent structure for the lead, where the last paragraph covers (1) what happened to the defending champion, (2) the winner of the event and who he beat in the final, and (3) highest break info. Presenting the information consistently in the lead is more important than presenting it chronologically which is just likely to confuse the reader.
Rodney Baggins (
talk)
09:18, 29 August 2020 (UTC)reply
Just out of interest, the
Lead paragraph wiki article mentions "grabbing the attention of the reader", "the most important, interesting or attention-grabbing elements", "emphasize the interesting points of the article"; nowhere does it say anything about presenting the information 'chronologically'.
Rodney Baggins (
talk)
09:24, 29 August 2020 (UTC)reply