![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
The police spokesgiant declined to give any causes of death yet, and says buddy was armed at at least one time. Not safe to assume everyone was shot, especially knowing house fires and fast cars were also involved (in the overall event). InedibleHulk ( talk) 22:01, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi everyone. I know the media is reporting that the vehicle was a Chevrolet Tracker, but that's an old vehicle and rather rare by now especially in the salty environment of Nova Scotia. The CBC still photos of the Irving station show a silver GMC Suburban with the door open. I theorize a witness may have misidentified/misnamed the vehicle and the media continues to report it as a Tracker rather than the far more "official-looking" Suburban. Can anyone confirm what he was actually driving besides the fake RCMP car? Yiddophile ( talk) 01:53, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
I am a resident of a nearby community. I have heard rumours that the Mazda 3 dark grey hatchback seen at one of the pumps was the actual vehicle he swapped into and the tracker was an error made by the eyewitness. The silver suburban looks clearly to be a police vehicle. However, nothing has been confirmed from the police or media so we must follow what the reports say Zfamdam ( talk) 17:15, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. The Suburban seemed to me to be the sort of thing a person driving a mock police car would want to trade into, which was why I was confused. The Tracker is surely an eyewitness error. On a personal note, I'm a grandson of Sara MacLeod and Donald Patriquin, both of Great Village, and my mother is interred along the Cobequid Bay, possibly down Portapique Beach Road but I'll have to ask my sister. I have fond memories of shopping at Layton's store. My heart goes out to the wonderful people of your beautiful area. Yiddophile ( talk) 17:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Love of Corey, please stop changing the Canadian English spelling "neighbour" to the incorrect "neighbor". David O. Johnson ( talk) 01:42, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Several times now, I've had to subtract one from the dead because someone assumes Wortman is additional to the cited number. Don't assume that. Use the cited number. InedibleHulk ( talk) 01:27, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
References
CBC6
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).CBC4
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).CTV4
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).In such articles the writer’s choice to name the murderer and thus give him notoriety while leaving the known victims nameless provides an interesting view into the inherent bias in reporting such incidents. The victims are often just given recognition as numbers. AlbertaSunwapta ( talk) 13:16, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
The Case For Publishing The Names Of Mass Shooters | HuffPost Canada
“ “They want to go from being a nobody to being a somebody and they’re calculating accurately that if they commit a mass shooting and kill a large number of innocent people that they will get that reward,” he said. The death toll of mass shooters has increased since 2010, he said, as attackers recognize that more victims means more media attention. “If the media stops giving them fame, it removes that incentive.” “
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-problem-with-erasing-mass-shooting-perpetrators-from-media-coverage_n_5d55b70de4b0d8840ff02d3c AlbertaSunwapta ( talk) 13:38, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Should there not be a list of victims? Should the list not precede the name of the murderer? Say this was just the theft or destruction of a prided asset. The dollar value lost would be seen a prominent and critical fact in any discussion. When it’s the immeasurable value of good, often law abiding people lost to murder, some attempt to measure the impact of the loss is also often reported. Why then do many writers of Wikipedia articles choose to ignore such highly pertinent facts? (In comparison look at articles on celebrities etc and note all the details seen as relevant to the articles such as lists of film appearances, controversies, etc. ) AlbertaSunwapta ( talk) 13:54, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Correction “prized asset” AlbertaSunwapta ( talk) 13:55, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm a local to the area and know that many people have questions about why only Twitter was used and not the Public Alert Broadcast System. [1] Not sure if there is a place for this in the WIKI however. Air Java ( talk) 00:38, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Now it is apparent an explosion and gunfire happened at a house on Hunter Road in Wentworth, approximately 37 kilometres (23 mi) north of Portapique. Two residents and a neighbour were later confirmed to be victims. Another victim was then allegedly shot and killed while walking in the community of Wentworth Valley, on the road between Wentworth and Portapique. Since this is case, the map in our infobox should also indicate Wentworth. werldwayd ( talk) 02:09, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
The Toronto Sun wrote: "The first two dead are believed to be 51-year-old Wortman’s “ex (wife or girlfriend) and her new boyfriend,” say police sources." This seems like a relevant piece of information of information that should be included. [1] Tallard ( talk) 17:15, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
This has not been supported by any credible source. I have seen this rumour around and no motive has been released Zfamdam ( talk) 17:21, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
References
The Sun is a trash tabloid. This is rumor tier for now. It may end up being true. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 11:08, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Perhaps it should be. A few recent edits by an IP, appear to have potentially been vandalism. They added false information and some which is unknown and was unverified.-- Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 23:03, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Should we change the archiving period from 3 days to 1 day, since the talk page size is already up to 90kB? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 14:54, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Editors, please reference an Official RCMP media release through the RCMP Nova Scotia Facebook account. It will update some of the information as well as may be a better way to consolidate source info. https://www.facebook.com/rcmpns/posts/10157512693344779?__tn__=-R Air Java ( talk) 21:09, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Does anyone agree with me that the comments attributed to Donald and Melania, who are not Canadian, are not relevant here? I tried to remove them, but I was reverted. If we leave that door ajar, the article will likely be swamped by meaningless platitudes from "world leaders". WWGB ( talk) 07:57, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Queen Elizabeth II expressed her condolences, stating that she and Prince Philip were "saddened by the appalling events", and that...
Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, expressed her condolences...
This phrase is awkward and just confuses readers. The way it's phrased now makes it sound like he took a normal car and somehow disguised it to look like an RCMP vehicle. This phrasing comes from being very literal to early reports, possibly an eye witness. BBC article:
"Royal Canadian Mounted Police tweeted that they believed a police car was being used by the gunman"
Nova Scotia Police tweeted out an old image of the car in question too, making it no mistake that it was a legitimate RCMP vehicle and not some how a fake car. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 07:54, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
It has been said in many sources that it was a retired police vehicle and he bought all of the decals himself Zfamdam ( talk) 17:18, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
As reported in the NY Times article, the perpetrator of these killings previously appeared on national news when he provided dentures to a cancer survivor. I added this to the Perpetrator section, but my change was reverted by David O. Johnson as "tangential". Why is the perpetrator's previous appearance on national news (which is cited by the NYT) more tangential than, say, his attendance at Riverview High School (New Brunswick), for example? AlexEng( TALK) 05:57, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
It's relevant info and brief biographical information on criminals is often noted. So what kind of a person was he? What role did he play in the community? Did he show any signs? Him giving free dentures to a woman suffering from cancer highlights how normal he seemed. He might have had some kind of mental breakdown later on. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 07:51, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Nova Scotia killings has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please, append the "Perpetrator" section with information regarding Gabe's brushing with HRP/RCMP in the past, something to this effect: "According to the February 17, 2020 Frank Magazine article, Gabriel Wortman was involved in a conflict with Halifax Regional Police over the use of his private parking space by HRP officers in an unmarked car on February 12, 2020."
Reference: http://www.frankmagazine.org/post/car-54-where-are-you 50.100.251.97 ( talk) 04:01, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
I know a lot of the available "news" sources say 19 dead including the suspect, but the RCMP officer who they are citing makes it very clear in his own words that it is 19 victims of the suspect, plus the suspect's death which equals 20 for the infobox "deaths" column.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnY1sc0FQL0&t=2m19s
I've linked to the precise moment that RCMP Chief Superintendent Chris Leather makes the following statement: "Firstly I can confirm, now, there are in excess of 19 victims, victims both men and women, and all were adults. It appears that some of the victims were known to the suspect, and others were targeted and not known to the suspect".
Just as our own article here separates a "Victims" and "Perpetrator" section, so too does Mr. Leather in his statement. Unfortunately, it seems that one or more media outlets mischaracterized what he said and the rest followed instead of listening to it and reporting on it directly. There are some sources that correctly identify 19 victims of the suspect, but most do not. How do we proceed in such a case? Can we source the media outlets that correctly characterize his statements, and also source the video itself showing what he said? Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an official RCMP-sanctioned written version of his statement available. 96.44.72.91 ( talk) 11:15, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
CBC now says " "The RCMP said at least 20 people appear to have been killed by 51-year-old Gabriel Wortman," Harizotoh9 ( talk) 18:18, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
"Elizabeth Joanne Thomas and John Joseph Zahl are presumed dead." Other news outlets have reported this as well as they have received information from family that their house has been burnt and they cannot contact them. I'm not sure about adjusting the number until RCMP confirm number of deceased. Or you could right 18 fatalities and 2 presumed pending... Air Java ( talk) 18:28, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
So is the death toll of 23 final? We still have "23+" on there. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 15:57, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has asked the Canadian media (probably world media outlets as well) to avoid so much as mentioning Wortman’s name or publishing a photograph of him. He said today: “Do not give this person [his words] the gift of infamy”. "Instead of focusing on the shooter, all our attention should be paid to the victims, their families and friends". Since it is one of his country's own citizen's that committed these atrocious killings, does his wish apply to us as well at Wikipedia? I find his position odd. Is it a futile attempt on applying arbitrary censorship or a gag order? Is this a prelude of making Wortman disappear as a non-entity, a non-person that never ever existed. My position is that a cautionary comment would have been warranted if the perpetrator had been a minor say 15, 16 or 17). But the guy is a mature 51 year old man who in an outburst of extreme rage (probably also suffering from a traumatic psychological condition and distress) committed these atrocious acts. And if he suddenly disappears, by his name being banished from all mention, will everything become "normal" again? After such a public position by Trudeau, I say it is our duty to pay extra attention so as not to demonize Wortman ourselves. My comment here is not in any way an attempt to "humanize" him as a person, but a genuine desire on my side to avoid "dehumanizing" him. I would like that the section on the perpetrator is supervized by a very responsible editor to avoid both "demonizers" and "humanizers" alike, by sticking to the facts without imposing a censorship atmosphere. werldwayd ( talk) 07:20, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
The fact that some of the victims of this atrocity - an atrocity reportedly carried out by a man - were women has been removed as "not significant" and "undue". It is neither of those things. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:41, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
"The issue is saying there were "MORE" women then men killed"Nobody said that. HTH. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
"All that is necessary is a source that would support an assertion that most of the victims were female."Why, when - as already pointed out above - no one is claiming that to be the case? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
This section appears predicated on hysteria and as if there is an intentional POV being pushed here. The sources provided show no such thing. The sex of the victims shoudl play no role in the objectivitiy of writing a neutral article. The only way this information being claimed could be true is if reliable sources provide reliable and verifaible proof, not just theories or conjecture that this is occurring otherwith this feels like a sopbaox section. Sparkle1 ( talk) 18:10, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
"...hysteria..."AFAICT, WP:AGF has not yet been suspended. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
@ Pigsonthewing, thanks it is hard to figure out exactly what you are objecting to because you have not provided a link or wording that you object being removed. I assume you are talking about " several others of whom were also women"? If there is something else we are talking about here let us know. I think that wording has the same issues. It suggests the fact that those victims were women is significant, possibly as a motive or for some other unstated reason. Why do you think we need to highlight their gender in that sentence?-- Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 18:21, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Hiding the deaths of women? AFAICT, WP:AGF has not yet been suspended. AlexEng( TALK) 21:37, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
"calling special attention"No-one is asking for that.
"...to title this section"Because that's what happened; HTH. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:16, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
HTH.It doesn't. Are you suggesting that editors are deliberately hiding the fact that women were killed? Why? Is there a good faith reason for doing that?
No-one is asking for that.You are, if I understand correctly. Your change specifically calls out that some of the victims are women. For what reason did you draw special attention to this fact? Would it be equally valid to point out that several of the victims were white? Canadian? English-speaking? Involved in occupations that involve caring for others? AlexEng( TALK) 05:47, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Police have been very quiet about motive so far. The unconfirmed rumors are that it started as some kind of domestic violence or an attack on an ex-gf and her new boyfriend and then spiraled out from there. When that gets confirmed that absolutely should be added to the article. But right now we really don't know if gender or relationships played any role in the attacks. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 10:44, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
the claim that the series of events is the deadliest mass shooting in Canada should be updated to reflect that it's the deadliest mass shooting in modern canadian history and not canadian history as a whole. see List of massacres in Canada as there have been previous more deadly events agaisnt Indigenous people in the 19th century. Epluribusunumyall ( talk) 23:18, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
The police spokesgiant declined to give any causes of death yet, and says buddy was armed at at least one time. Not safe to assume everyone was shot, especially knowing house fires and fast cars were also involved (in the overall event). InedibleHulk ( talk) 22:01, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi everyone. I know the media is reporting that the vehicle was a Chevrolet Tracker, but that's an old vehicle and rather rare by now especially in the salty environment of Nova Scotia. The CBC still photos of the Irving station show a silver GMC Suburban with the door open. I theorize a witness may have misidentified/misnamed the vehicle and the media continues to report it as a Tracker rather than the far more "official-looking" Suburban. Can anyone confirm what he was actually driving besides the fake RCMP car? Yiddophile ( talk) 01:53, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
I am a resident of a nearby community. I have heard rumours that the Mazda 3 dark grey hatchback seen at one of the pumps was the actual vehicle he swapped into and the tracker was an error made by the eyewitness. The silver suburban looks clearly to be a police vehicle. However, nothing has been confirmed from the police or media so we must follow what the reports say Zfamdam ( talk) 17:15, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. The Suburban seemed to me to be the sort of thing a person driving a mock police car would want to trade into, which was why I was confused. The Tracker is surely an eyewitness error. On a personal note, I'm a grandson of Sara MacLeod and Donald Patriquin, both of Great Village, and my mother is interred along the Cobequid Bay, possibly down Portapique Beach Road but I'll have to ask my sister. I have fond memories of shopping at Layton's store. My heart goes out to the wonderful people of your beautiful area. Yiddophile ( talk) 17:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Love of Corey, please stop changing the Canadian English spelling "neighbour" to the incorrect "neighbor". David O. Johnson ( talk) 01:42, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Several times now, I've had to subtract one from the dead because someone assumes Wortman is additional to the cited number. Don't assume that. Use the cited number. InedibleHulk ( talk) 01:27, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
References
CBC6
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).CBC4
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).CTV4
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).In such articles the writer’s choice to name the murderer and thus give him notoriety while leaving the known victims nameless provides an interesting view into the inherent bias in reporting such incidents. The victims are often just given recognition as numbers. AlbertaSunwapta ( talk) 13:16, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
The Case For Publishing The Names Of Mass Shooters | HuffPost Canada
“ “They want to go from being a nobody to being a somebody and they’re calculating accurately that if they commit a mass shooting and kill a large number of innocent people that they will get that reward,” he said. The death toll of mass shooters has increased since 2010, he said, as attackers recognize that more victims means more media attention. “If the media stops giving them fame, it removes that incentive.” “
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-problem-with-erasing-mass-shooting-perpetrators-from-media-coverage_n_5d55b70de4b0d8840ff02d3c AlbertaSunwapta ( talk) 13:38, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Should there not be a list of victims? Should the list not precede the name of the murderer? Say this was just the theft or destruction of a prided asset. The dollar value lost would be seen a prominent and critical fact in any discussion. When it’s the immeasurable value of good, often law abiding people lost to murder, some attempt to measure the impact of the loss is also often reported. Why then do many writers of Wikipedia articles choose to ignore such highly pertinent facts? (In comparison look at articles on celebrities etc and note all the details seen as relevant to the articles such as lists of film appearances, controversies, etc. ) AlbertaSunwapta ( talk) 13:54, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Correction “prized asset” AlbertaSunwapta ( talk) 13:55, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm a local to the area and know that many people have questions about why only Twitter was used and not the Public Alert Broadcast System. [1] Not sure if there is a place for this in the WIKI however. Air Java ( talk) 00:38, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Now it is apparent an explosion and gunfire happened at a house on Hunter Road in Wentworth, approximately 37 kilometres (23 mi) north of Portapique. Two residents and a neighbour were later confirmed to be victims. Another victim was then allegedly shot and killed while walking in the community of Wentworth Valley, on the road between Wentworth and Portapique. Since this is case, the map in our infobox should also indicate Wentworth. werldwayd ( talk) 02:09, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
The Toronto Sun wrote: "The first two dead are believed to be 51-year-old Wortman’s “ex (wife or girlfriend) and her new boyfriend,” say police sources." This seems like a relevant piece of information of information that should be included. [1] Tallard ( talk) 17:15, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
This has not been supported by any credible source. I have seen this rumour around and no motive has been released Zfamdam ( talk) 17:21, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
References
The Sun is a trash tabloid. This is rumor tier for now. It may end up being true. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 11:08, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Perhaps it should be. A few recent edits by an IP, appear to have potentially been vandalism. They added false information and some which is unknown and was unverified.-- Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 23:03, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Should we change the archiving period from 3 days to 1 day, since the talk page size is already up to 90kB? -- Jax 0677 ( talk) 14:54, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Editors, please reference an Official RCMP media release through the RCMP Nova Scotia Facebook account. It will update some of the information as well as may be a better way to consolidate source info. https://www.facebook.com/rcmpns/posts/10157512693344779?__tn__=-R Air Java ( talk) 21:09, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Does anyone agree with me that the comments attributed to Donald and Melania, who are not Canadian, are not relevant here? I tried to remove them, but I was reverted. If we leave that door ajar, the article will likely be swamped by meaningless platitudes from "world leaders". WWGB ( talk) 07:57, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Queen Elizabeth II expressed her condolences, stating that she and Prince Philip were "saddened by the appalling events", and that...
Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, expressed her condolences...
This phrase is awkward and just confuses readers. The way it's phrased now makes it sound like he took a normal car and somehow disguised it to look like an RCMP vehicle. This phrasing comes from being very literal to early reports, possibly an eye witness. BBC article:
"Royal Canadian Mounted Police tweeted that they believed a police car was being used by the gunman"
Nova Scotia Police tweeted out an old image of the car in question too, making it no mistake that it was a legitimate RCMP vehicle and not some how a fake car. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 07:54, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
It has been said in many sources that it was a retired police vehicle and he bought all of the decals himself Zfamdam ( talk) 17:18, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
As reported in the NY Times article, the perpetrator of these killings previously appeared on national news when he provided dentures to a cancer survivor. I added this to the Perpetrator section, but my change was reverted by David O. Johnson as "tangential". Why is the perpetrator's previous appearance on national news (which is cited by the NYT) more tangential than, say, his attendance at Riverview High School (New Brunswick), for example? AlexEng( TALK) 05:57, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
It's relevant info and brief biographical information on criminals is often noted. So what kind of a person was he? What role did he play in the community? Did he show any signs? Him giving free dentures to a woman suffering from cancer highlights how normal he seemed. He might have had some kind of mental breakdown later on. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 07:51, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
Nova Scotia killings has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please, append the "Perpetrator" section with information regarding Gabe's brushing with HRP/RCMP in the past, something to this effect: "According to the February 17, 2020 Frank Magazine article, Gabriel Wortman was involved in a conflict with Halifax Regional Police over the use of his private parking space by HRP officers in an unmarked car on February 12, 2020."
Reference: http://www.frankmagazine.org/post/car-54-where-are-you 50.100.251.97 ( talk) 04:01, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
I know a lot of the available "news" sources say 19 dead including the suspect, but the RCMP officer who they are citing makes it very clear in his own words that it is 19 victims of the suspect, plus the suspect's death which equals 20 for the infobox "deaths" column.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnY1sc0FQL0&t=2m19s
I've linked to the precise moment that RCMP Chief Superintendent Chris Leather makes the following statement: "Firstly I can confirm, now, there are in excess of 19 victims, victims both men and women, and all were adults. It appears that some of the victims were known to the suspect, and others were targeted and not known to the suspect".
Just as our own article here separates a "Victims" and "Perpetrator" section, so too does Mr. Leather in his statement. Unfortunately, it seems that one or more media outlets mischaracterized what he said and the rest followed instead of listening to it and reporting on it directly. There are some sources that correctly identify 19 victims of the suspect, but most do not. How do we proceed in such a case? Can we source the media outlets that correctly characterize his statements, and also source the video itself showing what he said? Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an official RCMP-sanctioned written version of his statement available. 96.44.72.91 ( talk) 11:15, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
CBC now says " "The RCMP said at least 20 people appear to have been killed by 51-year-old Gabriel Wortman," Harizotoh9 ( talk) 18:18, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
"Elizabeth Joanne Thomas and John Joseph Zahl are presumed dead." Other news outlets have reported this as well as they have received information from family that their house has been burnt and they cannot contact them. I'm not sure about adjusting the number until RCMP confirm number of deceased. Or you could right 18 fatalities and 2 presumed pending... Air Java ( talk) 18:28, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
So is the death toll of 23 final? We still have "23+" on there. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 15:57, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has asked the Canadian media (probably world media outlets as well) to avoid so much as mentioning Wortman’s name or publishing a photograph of him. He said today: “Do not give this person [his words] the gift of infamy”. "Instead of focusing on the shooter, all our attention should be paid to the victims, their families and friends". Since it is one of his country's own citizen's that committed these atrocious killings, does his wish apply to us as well at Wikipedia? I find his position odd. Is it a futile attempt on applying arbitrary censorship or a gag order? Is this a prelude of making Wortman disappear as a non-entity, a non-person that never ever existed. My position is that a cautionary comment would have been warranted if the perpetrator had been a minor say 15, 16 or 17). But the guy is a mature 51 year old man who in an outburst of extreme rage (probably also suffering from a traumatic psychological condition and distress) committed these atrocious acts. And if he suddenly disappears, by his name being banished from all mention, will everything become "normal" again? After such a public position by Trudeau, I say it is our duty to pay extra attention so as not to demonize Wortman ourselves. My comment here is not in any way an attempt to "humanize" him as a person, but a genuine desire on my side to avoid "dehumanizing" him. I would like that the section on the perpetrator is supervized by a very responsible editor to avoid both "demonizers" and "humanizers" alike, by sticking to the facts without imposing a censorship atmosphere. werldwayd ( talk) 07:20, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
The fact that some of the victims of this atrocity - an atrocity reportedly carried out by a man - were women has been removed as "not significant" and "undue". It is neither of those things. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:41, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
"The issue is saying there were "MORE" women then men killed"Nobody said that. HTH. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:46, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
"All that is necessary is a source that would support an assertion that most of the victims were female."Why, when - as already pointed out above - no one is claiming that to be the case? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
This section appears predicated on hysteria and as if there is an intentional POV being pushed here. The sources provided show no such thing. The sex of the victims shoudl play no role in the objectivitiy of writing a neutral article. The only way this information being claimed could be true is if reliable sources provide reliable and verifaible proof, not just theories or conjecture that this is occurring otherwith this feels like a sopbaox section. Sparkle1 ( talk) 18:10, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
"...hysteria..."AFAICT, WP:AGF has not yet been suspended. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
@ Pigsonthewing, thanks it is hard to figure out exactly what you are objecting to because you have not provided a link or wording that you object being removed. I assume you are talking about " several others of whom were also women"? If there is something else we are talking about here let us know. I think that wording has the same issues. It suggests the fact that those victims were women is significant, possibly as a motive or for some other unstated reason. Why do you think we need to highlight their gender in that sentence?-- Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 18:21, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Hiding the deaths of women? AFAICT, WP:AGF has not yet been suspended. AlexEng( TALK) 21:37, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
"calling special attention"No-one is asking for that.
"...to title this section"Because that's what happened; HTH. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:16, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
HTH.It doesn't. Are you suggesting that editors are deliberately hiding the fact that women were killed? Why? Is there a good faith reason for doing that?
No-one is asking for that.You are, if I understand correctly. Your change specifically calls out that some of the victims are women. For what reason did you draw special attention to this fact? Would it be equally valid to point out that several of the victims were white? Canadian? English-speaking? Involved in occupations that involve caring for others? AlexEng( TALK) 05:47, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
Police have been very quiet about motive so far. The unconfirmed rumors are that it started as some kind of domestic violence or an attack on an ex-gf and her new boyfriend and then spiraled out from there. When that gets confirmed that absolutely should be added to the article. But right now we really don't know if gender or relationships played any role in the attacks. Harizotoh9 ( talk) 10:44, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
the claim that the series of events is the deadliest mass shooting in Canada should be updated to reflect that it's the deadliest mass shooting in modern canadian history and not canadian history as a whole. see List of massacres in Canada as there have been previous more deadly events agaisnt Indigenous people in the 19th century. Epluribusunumyall ( talk) 23:18, 21 April 2020 (UTC)