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Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 10 |
While "AAP leader Sanjay Singh, released a video in which BJP MLA from Laxmi Nagar, Abhay Verma was seen leading crowds that raised slogans "Police ke hatyaaron ko, goli maaro saalon ko (transl. Shoot the people, who murdered the policeman)"," is mentioned despite so many allegations, videos, FIRs and AAP membership suspension nothing related to Tahir Hussain is mentioned. 2405:204:3323:9B54:C52E:6E2D:E178:BB9 ( talk) 12:59, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
It the article very emphasized on majority of victims were Muslims. But no independent source support. It seems writer of the article is narrating his feelings. Souniel Yadav ( talk) 16:30, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
I quote from this oped on The Print. "Over forty persons dead. Both Hindus and Muslims, almost in equal measure. What is worse is the horror of several unidentified dead, in fact, close to a third of them, listed simply as “unknown”. " [1]
Also any Indian can easily make out the religion from seeing the names of the victims. I hate to do this but since the line is indicating bias to I checked and yes almost same number of both religion killed. Shubham2019 ( talk) 17:17, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
References
Allah O Akbar is used in violence as a weapon in case our writers were born yesterday. Terrorists blow themselves up chanting Allah o Akbar. Equivalence applies, if anything Jai Shri Ram is associated with less cases of violence as opposed to Allah o Akbar. [1] [2] Shubham2019 ( talk) 06:53, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
North East Delhi riots has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Riot means disturbance of peace.All incidents of riots small or large that happened in NE Delhi over CAA should be included in timeline. Please include this incident in timeline:-
On Jan 19 2020, Clash erupted between anti-CAA protesters and Kashimir Hindu Pandits on the 30th anniversary of Hindu Pandit genocide in Kashmir. (1) [(Redacted Opindia citation) (2)] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unbiasedpov ( talk • contribs) 17:53 March 1, 2020 (UTC)
I am providing clear evidence that incident happened in North East Delhi at ground 0 of riots. This is the right article and right talk page. Please see the links. Unbiasedpov ( talk) 19:34, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Please add to the list of those arrested for stoking violence.
Bail denied for Congress Party councillor Ishrat Jahan. Charges on her include rioting and attempt to murder. https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2020/feb/28/delhi-riots-court-rejects-bail-plea-of-arrested-ex-congress-municipal-councillor-ishrat-jahan-2109944.html Gayatri 02:15, 1 March 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gayatri9876 ( talk • contribs)
1RR and now BRD are being imposed at this article, so let us get a consensus before we add anything. I propose, "Sabu Ansari, Khalid and Ex-
Congress Councillor Ishrat Jahan have been booked for offences under sections 147 (rioting), 148 (rioting, armed with deadly weapon), 149 (unlawful assembly), 186 (obstructing public servant in discharge of public functions), 353 (assault on public servant), 332 (voluntarily causes hurt to public servant), 307 (attempt to murder), 109 (abetment), and 34 (common intention) of the IPC and relevant sections of the Arms Act. A Delhi court rejected their bail plea."
[3]
References
The fact that they are arrested should of course be mentioned, but the charges are not described at the right level. Here is for example a better source:
At least two activists from Delhi’s Khureji Khas area, who were arrested from an anti-Citizenship Amendment Act protest site on Wednesday afternoon, have been physically tortured in judicial custody, according to their family members. They have also been booked for rioting, attempting to murder a police official, and possessing and using firearms, which their families and other protesters claim are false and unsubstantiated charges. [1]
DBigXray, can you take a look? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 08:12, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
References
Azuredivay ( talk) 19:18, 2 March 2020 (UTC) As per the sources above, the information should have a separate paragraph for sure. Agree with Spasiba here.
Spasiba5, you first added this text to "Incitement" (with quotation marks) and now you added it to the lead (without quotation marks):
Sabu Ansari, Khalid and Ex- Congress Councillor Ishrat Jahan have been booked for offences under a couple of sections of the Indian Penal code and relevant sections of the Arms Act. A Delhi court rejected their bail plea. [1] [2]
References
- ^ "Delhi riots: Court rejects bail plea of arrested ex-Congress municipal councillor Ishrat Jahan". The New Indian Express. 28 February 2020. Retrieved 3 March 2020.
- ^ "Ishrat Jahan, ex-Congress municipal councillor, arrested for inciting violence during Delhi riots". Independent News Service. 29 February 2020. Retrieved 3 March 2020.
What makes you think this belongs in the lead? I have cited a Scroll.in source that has also covered their arrest. Have you looked at it, and if so, how did you take it into account? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 11:19, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
CAA Riots started in NE delhi in Dec 2019 why is timeline starting on a random date of Feb 23? What is so special about Feb 23? As per Wikipedia guideline, Timeline should start when the 1st event occurred. [ reference] Unbiasedpov ( talk) 18:46, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
The victims in the riots were not predominantly Hindu or Muslim. Both were killed almost in equal numbers. [1] The list of victims has almost equal number of Hindu and Muslim names. I suggest remove the line which says 42 people were killed mostly muslims to "42 people were killed with almost equal number of deaths from Hindu and Muslim community. " Shubham2019 ( talk) 16:46, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Please also see The Print "Over forty persons dead. Both Hindus and Muslims, almost in equal measure. What is worse is the horror of several unidentified dead, in fact, close to a third of them, listed simply as “unknown”. https://theprint.in/opinion/lies-are-the-staple-of-every-communal-disturbance-and-delhi-riots-are-no-different/373589/ 2405:204:3318:B8D4:F850:AF06:7EBF:D5F2 ( talk) 18:32, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
How can you it say that hindu attacked Muslims when Its now clear that muslims have acid bag, petrol bombs, stones at their homes and major Muslim leader committed crime . Name :Tahir Hussain( wanted and currently absconding) Krish013 ( talk) 05:50, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Let's not make this about biased opinions. Stick to facts. There's been damage from both sides. Deepsea20 ( talk) 17:01, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
What about the young Hindu girls who were raped and thrown in the drain Deepsea20 ( talk) 17:01, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/delhi-violence-riots-death-toll-6294461/ ∯WBG converse 15:27, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
note: Some of this point had limited discussions in talk pages but it needs larger set of editors to chime in.
Article suffers from several peculiar omission violating NPOV and ends up creating original research narrative due to following reasons:
1) Wrong Timeline: Editors are insisting that timeline must start on Feb 23rd 2020. Incidents which happened in same locality with same issue & same set of actors,before Feb 23rd 2020 should not be included in the article. There is no explanation on Feb 23 2020. For example,Editor wrote "This is not the article relating to all riots, only the ones from 23 February. In another example, Editor wrote "timeline section is designated for February 23-future".
2) Truncated Geography: All wikipedia articles about india riots cover entire geographic area which comes under jurisdiction. Examples: "1992 Bombay riots" or "2002 Gujarat Riots" but [ "2020 New Delhi violence"] redirects to [ "North East Delhi riots"]; Thus, Omitting major riots incidents which occurred in South delhi & other areas.All this riots have same underlying cause and same set of protesters, counter-protesters and organizer under same delhi commissioner jurisdiction. Even the persons arrested in south delhi riots are connected with north-east delhi protest/counter-protest and vice-verse.
3) Original research "title & timeline":- Popular media title is "Delhi violence". See examples: https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/delhi-violence-day-6-live-updates/article30939906.ece https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/delhi/delhi-northeast-violence-maujpur-babarpur-jaffrabad-mustafabad-6293445/ https://www.ndtv.com/topic/delhi-violence. Only wikipedia has original research title "NE Delhi riots". Redirecting "2020 New Delhi Riots" to filtered set of events meeting specific geographic and date is POV.
Questions:-
1) Does the choice of smaller geography, arbitrary timeline, and name of article meet wikipedia standard of NPOV & "No original Research"?
2) Is the timeline meeting the dictionary meaning of word timeline?
3) Should "2020 Delhi Riots" redirect to "North East Delhi Riots"? If not either current-article should be expanded and renamed to "Delhi Violence" or a new article titled "Delhi Violence" should be created.
Inviting all editors to discuss Fowler&fowler Johnbod DbigXray Can I Log In qedk Gayatri9876 Sarvatra Souniel Yadav Shubham2019 LEPRICAVARK AstralAngel Raghavendran80 Datta UrbanCentrist DrAshishPandey Psha12 Aswin8 Kkartiki18 Aman.kumar.goel Bhav2916 ML Sanwat A14i12 Spasiba5 Sourav123456 Vasantray Vachhani Anandraghuvanshistar Winged_Blades_of_Godric
Unbiasedpov ( talk) 16:14, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Yes it has been nine days. Riots were under control on 27 February. Shubham2019 ( talk) 15:53, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
There's already a discussion on "End date", please contribute there. SerChevalerie ( talk) 17:37, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
I think the article written by foreign media are too biased while they mention about Hindu mob but totally ignore what muslim mob have done. So it is necessary to add what Indian media have written. Dev0745 ( talk) 17:34, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
I think the article written by foreign media are too biased while they mention about Hindu mob but totally ignore what muslim mob have done. So it is necessary to add what Indian media have written. Dev0745 ( talk) 17:34, 5 March 2020 (UTC) Dev0745 ( talk) 17:38, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
According to Cambridge dictionary
A pogrom is an organized killing of a large group of people, esp. Jews, because of their religion or race https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/pogrom
What happened in Delhi can in no way be classified as a pogrom especially when there were equal number of deaths on both sides. Kunapulir ( talk) 02:38, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
References
It is my view, and the view of several experienced editors on this talk page, that there is insufficient information at present to decide it. The Huffington Post article cited above is quite valuable in deciding such things, because it culls what a number of high-quality world newspapers have said about it. The editors who are bad-mouthing the article are exposing their own biases, and need to rethink what exactly they are doing here. But, on the issue itself, we need to wait until more thorough investigations and reports come out. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 10:16, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
It also mentioned how police were arranging stones for the fringe. Ritik Chandra ( talk) 03:36, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
North East Delhi riots has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
While any Wikipedia article is accessed by public. It is expected that it will contain all basic information related to topic. The riots were organised anti-Hindu riots-
The content is highly biased in nature. Hence, we can say that this article is not neutral in any way.
It has been well established by now that the riots were pre-planned. However, it was anti-Hindu in nature.Following incidents prove-:
Tahir Hussain is supposed to have lead a group of 300 to 400 hardcore rioters during the violence.
a news, current affairs and media analysis organization. This source is still pending review from Media Bias Factcheck, but I would suggest taking the analysis made by it with a grain of salt. Regards, Spintendo 18:14, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
References
A few related pointers for new users:
Thank you in advance for your close attention. El_C 14:15, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
What seems like a coordinated attempt at suppression, OTRS has been for the last 24 hours spammed with messages relating to this article from over 100s of people/email accounts. They are treated as normal dispute resolution messages and referred to this talk page or to other venues. Jonatan Svensson Glad ( talk) 16:58, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
looks like our article still needs a lot of work. -- ⋙–DBig Xrayᗙ 14:33, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Take a look at this tweet.
https://twitter.com/vivekagnihotri/status/1232129299492360193
I don't know what to do with this. Sachi_bbsr talk 10:12, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/ndtvvideos/status/1233467939879374849
Same incident that Vivek is ridiculing. Sachi_bbsr talk 10:15, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
It's totally fake info you should investigate this
And who is this nonsense author ?
Shame on you wikipedia
Raviarnav08 (
talk)
12:07, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
I agree that it should be added. All the sections should be made concise. We are not filing a charge sheet. Shubham2019 ( talk) 05:37, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
North East Delhi riots has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
UPPER-CASTE DOMINANCE OF MOBS
The article so far fails to mention a very important aspect of the mob violence: the Hindi-Hindu mobs are dominated by UPPER CASTES - BRAHMINS and RAJPUTS. Kapil Mishra himself is a BRAHMIN. Please mention this paramount aspect. Here is another reference to this fact:
"The Hindu right-wing mob at the Babarpur junction on the night of 24 February came from the Hindu localities of the neighbouring areas—Yamuna Vihar to the north, Seelampur to the south, Maujpur to the west and Chhajjupur to the east. Several members of the Hindu right-wing mob had their upper-caste pride on display. Many men among them wore t-shirts that had “Brahman,” “Jat” and “Jai Shri Ram” written on them and from my conversation with them I gleaned that many of them belonged to other upper castes such as Rajputs and Baniyas." - ('Hindu supremacist mobs orchestrate violence against Muslims where BJP won in Delhi elections' Sagar, Caravan Magazine, 25 February 2020 https://caravanmagazine.in/religion/delhi-violence-north-east-maujpur-jaffrabad-babarpur-muslims-hindu
Please add this important point to the article, in order to provide a proper persective to this issue. Thank You. WashingtonPrime ( talk) 04:53, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
why not the role of police describe in articles most of the news chennels running the news about police is supporting hindu terrorist to destroy the property of muslims and killings. they just stopped their working and letting the rioters to loot and arsoning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.31.121.208 ( talk) 06:04, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
I have been asked to look at the article. I have had time to examine only the lead. Here are some issues I see.
It is a mouthful to be sure, but in any encyclopedia—which is different from a newspaper—it is important for this to be said. It is also pretty clear from reporting in the best third-party international sources, including several articles lead-authored by Jeffrey Gettleman, the Pulitzer-prize-winning South Asia bureau chief of the New York Times, that the violence was not just random violence in which people in disordered haste were attacking the unlucky humans or their property that happen to come their way."violence whose victims were marked out on the basis of their religious affiliation."
Several video evidences revealed the involvement of police on a bizarre scale. BBC realsed a report showing how police were throwing stones with the hindutva finge. One video also emerged showing the police officer breaking CTV cameras and in one video can be seen escorting the finge. Ritik Chandra ( talk) 22:07, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8R8h1hCCR4 Here is the story run by BBC news hindi. Showing bizarre police involvement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ritik Chandra ( talk • contribs) 03:32, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
There's a twitter post by J Gopikrishnan who claimed to have been contacted by foreign media to paint Delhi riot in communal angle. AFAIK only OpIndia has covered this news. Any other WP:RS sources for inclusion in wikipedia?
Crawford88 ( talk) 05:31, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Since the 24-hour check doesn't seem to be working properly, have now kept the max size of Talk page to 150,000 bytes. Only old threads should be affected by this, and the discussion can still continue (since the thread is only archived, not removed). SerChevalerie ( talk) 06:15, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
@
Dev0745: in the past 2½ hours, you added what is essentially the same comment six times to this Talk page. In multiple instances, you repeated your comment verbatim. Diffs are, in order posted:
one and
two (verbatim),
three,
four and
five (verbatim), and
six. I do not question your
good faith, but as the behavioral guideline on
disruptive editing cautions us: The fact that the disruption occurs in good faith does not change the fact that it is harmful to Wikipedia.
I respectfully request that you stop repeatedly posting the same comment. Trust me, you have made your point.
NedFausa (
talk)
20:24, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
This was happening as I was commenting on commentbox but It was not appearing on it. So I copy pasted by comments three times. Then I realised the problem. This is probably due to I am editing on mobile phone. Thanks Dev0745 ( talk) 20:41, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
It is absolutely necessary to say exactly what is CAA and how it will do good or bad to Indian citizen, specifically Indian Muslims. This is the central point and is missing in the article. Vasantray Vachhani ( talk) 08:21, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
providing a <fast-tracked> path to Indian citizenship for ... migrants of Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi, and Christian religious minorities, ... who arrived from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistanor similar. Specifically, it is only particular bordering countries of origin (doesn't include China, Nepal, Myanmar, Bhutan) and only specific religious minorities. - Ryk72 talk 10:43, 2 March 2020 (UTC) - struck extraneous section - Ryk72 talk 11:19, 2 March 2020 (UTC)before December 2014.
in response to the passage of the Citizenship (Amendment) Act (CAA), which allows fast-tracked naturalisation for religious minorities from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistanis significantly more wordy than the current
in response to the passage of the Citizenship (Amendment) Act (CAA), which allows fast-tracked naturalisation for immigrants from neighbouring countries belonging to all religions except Islam.I am sure that is has the advantages of accuracy & specificity. - Ryk72 talk 11:25, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
I cannot say what you are trying to say but I find wikipedia pretty welcome place, where a lot of concerns are duly noted if you open a talk page discussion. The wikipedia even allows pics of prophet Mohammad which is strictly not allowed in Islam. So I really think your allegations are baseless. If they were biased, they would not allow things which are not allowed. Every word on wikipedia is curated and can be challanged in talk page. I would advice you to open talk page, if you think something written is wrong. Edward Zigma ( talk) 06:32, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
User:Ryk72 You must first get actual copy of CAA. It is not written all religion except Islam rather listed specific minority communities in those countries only. We need to shred off our personal opinion as a true journalist. Go through the Amendment section [1] DBigFacts ( talk) 10:11, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 10 |
While "AAP leader Sanjay Singh, released a video in which BJP MLA from Laxmi Nagar, Abhay Verma was seen leading crowds that raised slogans "Police ke hatyaaron ko, goli maaro saalon ko (transl. Shoot the people, who murdered the policeman)"," is mentioned despite so many allegations, videos, FIRs and AAP membership suspension nothing related to Tahir Hussain is mentioned. 2405:204:3323:9B54:C52E:6E2D:E178:BB9 ( talk) 12:59, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
It the article very emphasized on majority of victims were Muslims. But no independent source support. It seems writer of the article is narrating his feelings. Souniel Yadav ( talk) 16:30, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
I quote from this oped on The Print. "Over forty persons dead. Both Hindus and Muslims, almost in equal measure. What is worse is the horror of several unidentified dead, in fact, close to a third of them, listed simply as “unknown”. " [1]
Also any Indian can easily make out the religion from seeing the names of the victims. I hate to do this but since the line is indicating bias to I checked and yes almost same number of both religion killed. Shubham2019 ( talk) 17:17, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
References
Allah O Akbar is used in violence as a weapon in case our writers were born yesterday. Terrorists blow themselves up chanting Allah o Akbar. Equivalence applies, if anything Jai Shri Ram is associated with less cases of violence as opposed to Allah o Akbar. [1] [2] Shubham2019 ( talk) 06:53, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
North East Delhi riots has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Riot means disturbance of peace.All incidents of riots small or large that happened in NE Delhi over CAA should be included in timeline. Please include this incident in timeline:-
On Jan 19 2020, Clash erupted between anti-CAA protesters and Kashimir Hindu Pandits on the 30th anniversary of Hindu Pandit genocide in Kashmir. (1) [(Redacted Opindia citation) (2)] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unbiasedpov ( talk • contribs) 17:53 March 1, 2020 (UTC)
I am providing clear evidence that incident happened in North East Delhi at ground 0 of riots. This is the right article and right talk page. Please see the links. Unbiasedpov ( talk) 19:34, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Please add to the list of those arrested for stoking violence.
Bail denied for Congress Party councillor Ishrat Jahan. Charges on her include rioting and attempt to murder. https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2020/feb/28/delhi-riots-court-rejects-bail-plea-of-arrested-ex-congress-municipal-councillor-ishrat-jahan-2109944.html Gayatri 02:15, 1 March 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gayatri9876 ( talk • contribs)
1RR and now BRD are being imposed at this article, so let us get a consensus before we add anything. I propose, "Sabu Ansari, Khalid and Ex-
Congress Councillor Ishrat Jahan have been booked for offences under sections 147 (rioting), 148 (rioting, armed with deadly weapon), 149 (unlawful assembly), 186 (obstructing public servant in discharge of public functions), 353 (assault on public servant), 332 (voluntarily causes hurt to public servant), 307 (attempt to murder), 109 (abetment), and 34 (common intention) of the IPC and relevant sections of the Arms Act. A Delhi court rejected their bail plea."
[3]
References
The fact that they are arrested should of course be mentioned, but the charges are not described at the right level. Here is for example a better source:
At least two activists from Delhi’s Khureji Khas area, who were arrested from an anti-Citizenship Amendment Act protest site on Wednesday afternoon, have been physically tortured in judicial custody, according to their family members. They have also been booked for rioting, attempting to murder a police official, and possessing and using firearms, which their families and other protesters claim are false and unsubstantiated charges. [1]
DBigXray, can you take a look? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 08:12, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
References
Azuredivay ( talk) 19:18, 2 March 2020 (UTC) As per the sources above, the information should have a separate paragraph for sure. Agree with Spasiba here.
Spasiba5, you first added this text to "Incitement" (with quotation marks) and now you added it to the lead (without quotation marks):
Sabu Ansari, Khalid and Ex- Congress Councillor Ishrat Jahan have been booked for offences under a couple of sections of the Indian Penal code and relevant sections of the Arms Act. A Delhi court rejected their bail plea. [1] [2]
References
- ^ "Delhi riots: Court rejects bail plea of arrested ex-Congress municipal councillor Ishrat Jahan". The New Indian Express. 28 February 2020. Retrieved 3 March 2020.
- ^ "Ishrat Jahan, ex-Congress municipal councillor, arrested for inciting violence during Delhi riots". Independent News Service. 29 February 2020. Retrieved 3 March 2020.
What makes you think this belongs in the lead? I have cited a Scroll.in source that has also covered their arrest. Have you looked at it, and if so, how did you take it into account? -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 11:19, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
CAA Riots started in NE delhi in Dec 2019 why is timeline starting on a random date of Feb 23? What is so special about Feb 23? As per Wikipedia guideline, Timeline should start when the 1st event occurred. [ reference] Unbiasedpov ( talk) 18:46, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
The victims in the riots were not predominantly Hindu or Muslim. Both were killed almost in equal numbers. [1] The list of victims has almost equal number of Hindu and Muslim names. I suggest remove the line which says 42 people were killed mostly muslims to "42 people were killed with almost equal number of deaths from Hindu and Muslim community. " Shubham2019 ( talk) 16:46, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Please also see The Print "Over forty persons dead. Both Hindus and Muslims, almost in equal measure. What is worse is the horror of several unidentified dead, in fact, close to a third of them, listed simply as “unknown”. https://theprint.in/opinion/lies-are-the-staple-of-every-communal-disturbance-and-delhi-riots-are-no-different/373589/ 2405:204:3318:B8D4:F850:AF06:7EBF:D5F2 ( talk) 18:32, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
How can you it say that hindu attacked Muslims when Its now clear that muslims have acid bag, petrol bombs, stones at their homes and major Muslim leader committed crime . Name :Tahir Hussain( wanted and currently absconding) Krish013 ( talk) 05:50, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Let's not make this about biased opinions. Stick to facts. There's been damage from both sides. Deepsea20 ( talk) 17:01, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
What about the young Hindu girls who were raped and thrown in the drain Deepsea20 ( talk) 17:01, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/delhi-violence-riots-death-toll-6294461/ ∯WBG converse 15:27, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
note: Some of this point had limited discussions in talk pages but it needs larger set of editors to chime in.
Article suffers from several peculiar omission violating NPOV and ends up creating original research narrative due to following reasons:
1) Wrong Timeline: Editors are insisting that timeline must start on Feb 23rd 2020. Incidents which happened in same locality with same issue & same set of actors,before Feb 23rd 2020 should not be included in the article. There is no explanation on Feb 23 2020. For example,Editor wrote "This is not the article relating to all riots, only the ones from 23 February. In another example, Editor wrote "timeline section is designated for February 23-future".
2) Truncated Geography: All wikipedia articles about india riots cover entire geographic area which comes under jurisdiction. Examples: "1992 Bombay riots" or "2002 Gujarat Riots" but [ "2020 New Delhi violence"] redirects to [ "North East Delhi riots"]; Thus, Omitting major riots incidents which occurred in South delhi & other areas.All this riots have same underlying cause and same set of protesters, counter-protesters and organizer under same delhi commissioner jurisdiction. Even the persons arrested in south delhi riots are connected with north-east delhi protest/counter-protest and vice-verse.
3) Original research "title & timeline":- Popular media title is "Delhi violence". See examples: https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/delhi-violence-day-6-live-updates/article30939906.ece https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/delhi/delhi-northeast-violence-maujpur-babarpur-jaffrabad-mustafabad-6293445/ https://www.ndtv.com/topic/delhi-violence. Only wikipedia has original research title "NE Delhi riots". Redirecting "2020 New Delhi Riots" to filtered set of events meeting specific geographic and date is POV.
Questions:-
1) Does the choice of smaller geography, arbitrary timeline, and name of article meet wikipedia standard of NPOV & "No original Research"?
2) Is the timeline meeting the dictionary meaning of word timeline?
3) Should "2020 Delhi Riots" redirect to "North East Delhi Riots"? If not either current-article should be expanded and renamed to "Delhi Violence" or a new article titled "Delhi Violence" should be created.
Inviting all editors to discuss Fowler&fowler Johnbod DbigXray Can I Log In qedk Gayatri9876 Sarvatra Souniel Yadav Shubham2019 LEPRICAVARK AstralAngel Raghavendran80 Datta UrbanCentrist DrAshishPandey Psha12 Aswin8 Kkartiki18 Aman.kumar.goel Bhav2916 ML Sanwat A14i12 Spasiba5 Sourav123456 Vasantray Vachhani Anandraghuvanshistar Winged_Blades_of_Godric
Unbiasedpov ( talk) 16:14, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Yes it has been nine days. Riots were under control on 27 February. Shubham2019 ( talk) 15:53, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
There's already a discussion on "End date", please contribute there. SerChevalerie ( talk) 17:37, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
I think the article written by foreign media are too biased while they mention about Hindu mob but totally ignore what muslim mob have done. So it is necessary to add what Indian media have written. Dev0745 ( talk) 17:34, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
I think the article written by foreign media are too biased while they mention about Hindu mob but totally ignore what muslim mob have done. So it is necessary to add what Indian media have written. Dev0745 ( talk) 17:34, 5 March 2020 (UTC) Dev0745 ( talk) 17:38, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
According to Cambridge dictionary
A pogrom is an organized killing of a large group of people, esp. Jews, because of their religion or race https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/pogrom
What happened in Delhi can in no way be classified as a pogrom especially when there were equal number of deaths on both sides. Kunapulir ( talk) 02:38, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
References
It is my view, and the view of several experienced editors on this talk page, that there is insufficient information at present to decide it. The Huffington Post article cited above is quite valuable in deciding such things, because it culls what a number of high-quality world newspapers have said about it. The editors who are bad-mouthing the article are exposing their own biases, and need to rethink what exactly they are doing here. But, on the issue itself, we need to wait until more thorough investigations and reports come out. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 10:16, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
It also mentioned how police were arranging stones for the fringe. Ritik Chandra ( talk) 03:36, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
North East Delhi riots has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
While any Wikipedia article is accessed by public. It is expected that it will contain all basic information related to topic. The riots were organised anti-Hindu riots-
The content is highly biased in nature. Hence, we can say that this article is not neutral in any way.
It has been well established by now that the riots were pre-planned. However, it was anti-Hindu in nature.Following incidents prove-:
Tahir Hussain is supposed to have lead a group of 300 to 400 hardcore rioters during the violence.
a news, current affairs and media analysis organization. This source is still pending review from Media Bias Factcheck, but I would suggest taking the analysis made by it with a grain of salt. Regards, Spintendo 18:14, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
References
A few related pointers for new users:
Thank you in advance for your close attention. El_C 14:15, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
What seems like a coordinated attempt at suppression, OTRS has been for the last 24 hours spammed with messages relating to this article from over 100s of people/email accounts. They are treated as normal dispute resolution messages and referred to this talk page or to other venues. Jonatan Svensson Glad ( talk) 16:58, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
looks like our article still needs a lot of work. -- ⋙–DBig Xrayᗙ 14:33, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Take a look at this tweet.
https://twitter.com/vivekagnihotri/status/1232129299492360193
I don't know what to do with this. Sachi_bbsr talk 10:12, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/ndtvvideos/status/1233467939879374849
Same incident that Vivek is ridiculing. Sachi_bbsr talk 10:15, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
It's totally fake info you should investigate this
And who is this nonsense author ?
Shame on you wikipedia
Raviarnav08 (
talk)
12:07, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
I agree that it should be added. All the sections should be made concise. We are not filing a charge sheet. Shubham2019 ( talk) 05:37, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
This
edit request to
North East Delhi riots has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
UPPER-CASTE DOMINANCE OF MOBS
The article so far fails to mention a very important aspect of the mob violence: the Hindi-Hindu mobs are dominated by UPPER CASTES - BRAHMINS and RAJPUTS. Kapil Mishra himself is a BRAHMIN. Please mention this paramount aspect. Here is another reference to this fact:
"The Hindu right-wing mob at the Babarpur junction on the night of 24 February came from the Hindu localities of the neighbouring areas—Yamuna Vihar to the north, Seelampur to the south, Maujpur to the west and Chhajjupur to the east. Several members of the Hindu right-wing mob had their upper-caste pride on display. Many men among them wore t-shirts that had “Brahman,” “Jat” and “Jai Shri Ram” written on them and from my conversation with them I gleaned that many of them belonged to other upper castes such as Rajputs and Baniyas." - ('Hindu supremacist mobs orchestrate violence against Muslims where BJP won in Delhi elections' Sagar, Caravan Magazine, 25 February 2020 https://caravanmagazine.in/religion/delhi-violence-north-east-maujpur-jaffrabad-babarpur-muslims-hindu
Please add this important point to the article, in order to provide a proper persective to this issue. Thank You. WashingtonPrime ( talk) 04:53, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
why not the role of police describe in articles most of the news chennels running the news about police is supporting hindu terrorist to destroy the property of muslims and killings. they just stopped their working and letting the rioters to loot and arsoning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 223.31.121.208 ( talk) 06:04, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
I have been asked to look at the article. I have had time to examine only the lead. Here are some issues I see.
It is a mouthful to be sure, but in any encyclopedia—which is different from a newspaper—it is important for this to be said. It is also pretty clear from reporting in the best third-party international sources, including several articles lead-authored by Jeffrey Gettleman, the Pulitzer-prize-winning South Asia bureau chief of the New York Times, that the violence was not just random violence in which people in disordered haste were attacking the unlucky humans or their property that happen to come their way."violence whose victims were marked out on the basis of their religious affiliation."
Several video evidences revealed the involvement of police on a bizarre scale. BBC realsed a report showing how police were throwing stones with the hindutva finge. One video also emerged showing the police officer breaking CTV cameras and in one video can be seen escorting the finge. Ritik Chandra ( talk) 22:07, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8R8h1hCCR4 Here is the story run by BBC news hindi. Showing bizarre police involvement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ritik Chandra ( talk • contribs) 03:32, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
There's a twitter post by J Gopikrishnan who claimed to have been contacted by foreign media to paint Delhi riot in communal angle. AFAIK only OpIndia has covered this news. Any other WP:RS sources for inclusion in wikipedia?
Crawford88 ( talk) 05:31, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Since the 24-hour check doesn't seem to be working properly, have now kept the max size of Talk page to 150,000 bytes. Only old threads should be affected by this, and the discussion can still continue (since the thread is only archived, not removed). SerChevalerie ( talk) 06:15, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
@
Dev0745: in the past 2½ hours, you added what is essentially the same comment six times to this Talk page. In multiple instances, you repeated your comment verbatim. Diffs are, in order posted:
one and
two (verbatim),
three,
four and
five (verbatim), and
six. I do not question your
good faith, but as the behavioral guideline on
disruptive editing cautions us: The fact that the disruption occurs in good faith does not change the fact that it is harmful to Wikipedia.
I respectfully request that you stop repeatedly posting the same comment. Trust me, you have made your point.
NedFausa (
talk)
20:24, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
This was happening as I was commenting on commentbox but It was not appearing on it. So I copy pasted by comments three times. Then I realised the problem. This is probably due to I am editing on mobile phone. Thanks Dev0745 ( talk) 20:41, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
It is absolutely necessary to say exactly what is CAA and how it will do good or bad to Indian citizen, specifically Indian Muslims. This is the central point and is missing in the article. Vasantray Vachhani ( talk) 08:21, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
providing a <fast-tracked> path to Indian citizenship for ... migrants of Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Parsi, and Christian religious minorities, ... who arrived from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistanor similar. Specifically, it is only particular bordering countries of origin (doesn't include China, Nepal, Myanmar, Bhutan) and only specific religious minorities. - Ryk72 talk 10:43, 2 March 2020 (UTC) - struck extraneous section - Ryk72 talk 11:19, 2 March 2020 (UTC)before December 2014.
in response to the passage of the Citizenship (Amendment) Act (CAA), which allows fast-tracked naturalisation for religious minorities from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistanis significantly more wordy than the current
in response to the passage of the Citizenship (Amendment) Act (CAA), which allows fast-tracked naturalisation for immigrants from neighbouring countries belonging to all religions except Islam.I am sure that is has the advantages of accuracy & specificity. - Ryk72 talk 11:25, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
I cannot say what you are trying to say but I find wikipedia pretty welcome place, where a lot of concerns are duly noted if you open a talk page discussion. The wikipedia even allows pics of prophet Mohammad which is strictly not allowed in Islam. So I really think your allegations are baseless. If they were biased, they would not allow things which are not allowed. Every word on wikipedia is curated and can be challanged in talk page. I would advice you to open talk page, if you think something written is wrong. Edward Zigma ( talk) 06:32, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
User:Ryk72 You must first get actual copy of CAA. It is not written all religion except Islam rather listed specific minority communities in those countries only. We need to shred off our personal opinion as a true journalist. Go through the Amendment section [1] DBigFacts ( talk) 10:11, 5 March 2020 (UTC)