This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2016 shooting of Baton Rouge police officers article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 3 July 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to 2016 murders of Baton Rouge police officers. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
The event is still "active" and there's no indication of enduring notability. I'll wait before going to afd until the duration is resolved and we know more, but come on... EvergreenFir (talk) 15:57, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Live interview with a senior officer on MSNBC just claimed one suspect dead likely other multiple suspects at large. We need to be careful how this is integrated into the article. Remember that early reports in Dallas also reported multiple suspects. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 16:33, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Way too soon for motives but not for facts. I had to come here just to find out what happened, after wading through yards of spin and pre-emptive strikes from the Washington Post and NY Times. I skipped Fox News. The Times ended its brief story with four full paragraphs interviewing some random gun nut in another town. I guess our gun laws are their story tomorrow. I'd like to know what happened today. Wikipedia told me that in three minutes. Wiki is becoming the Newspaper of Record for these things. Profhum ( talk) 18:39, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
There is a lot of chatter, some of which is being alluded to by mainstream media/press sources that the suspected gunman may have had ties to the sovereign citizen movement. This may in fact prove to be the case. But we need clear and definitive statements from multiple RS sources before we put that into the article per WP:BLP (which does apply to the recently deceased). - Ad Orientem ( talk) 22:29, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
I added that he attended the U of Alabama based on a Washington Times article but that may be a mistake (a man with the same name) because on his (possible) own website he says he attended "After completing an Associate’s degree in General Studies at Central Texas College, Cosmo then attended Clark Atlanta University to further his education." after being in the United States Marine Corps.
https://twitter.com/jonswaine/status/754806684720177152 http://www.cosmoglobal.org/#!about/cjg9
Should I remove the U of Alabama sentence? 208.44.84.138 ( talk) 22:42, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
What does this even mean? It makes no sense. Beejsterb ( talk) 23:39, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
I read that article you linked to. Good mainstream explanation of the term as used in ethnic studies these days, across the board. Profhum ( talk) 01:05, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
He thought he was a victim of gangstalking. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/17/baton-rouge-gunman-gavin-e-long-cosmo-setepenra-marines 208.44.84.138 ( talk) 02:26, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/754828743403864064 "Investigators found on the body of the dead shooter Gavin Long a card suggesting he was a member of the Washitaw Nation"
http://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/2016/07/17/baton-rouge-shooter-may-have-embraced-bizarre-outlook/87234938/ "Shimon Prokupecz, a reporter for CNN, said a card was found on Gavin Long suggesting he was a member of the Washita Nation, a peculiar sovereign citizen movement group..."
208.44.84.138 ( talk) 03:21, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2016-07-18-baton-rouge-suspect-was-marine-who-served-in-iraq/#.V4xL07w0lR1 "Name change -A Jackson County, Kansas court document showed that Long successfully applied to have his name legally changed to Cosmo Ausar Setepenra. His application, which cited the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, was approved in May 2015. Long said he was a member of the Washitaw Nation, a group of African Americans claiming to be a Native American nation in the United States." 208.44.84.138 ( talk) 03:25, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
"His history of rambling postings indicated that the attack was motivated at least in part by killings by police of black Americans in recent years and the resulting unrest. " from The Guardian EvergreenFir (talk) 04:19, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Explaining my changes to the coordinates, which were modified in this edit.
New York Times has now published a graphic showing the location of the Hair Crown beauty supply shop, here. That new information shifts the center of the event in that direction, and I am adjusting the coordinates accordingly. To reiterate, the coordinates point to the approximate center of a ~100-m circle that encloses most or all of the event. ― Mandruss ☎ 11:47, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
If the 2016 shooting of Baton Rouge police officers is notable, then so is the 2016 shooting of Almaty police officers that happened a day later ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36823422). -- Gerrit C U T E D H 17:37, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
@ Parsley Man: you keep writing the sentences like:
As an introduction to the shooter, that totally misses the point, since it never identifies him as the shooter. This is the first time the shooter is named outside the lead, and certainly makes sense to identify him as the shooter (especially if someone comes in through a redirect to the section). There is no requirement that the section literally start with his name, so I added "The shooter was identified as ..." to the front of the sentence which provides the necessary context. Incidentally WP:R#PLA allows for bolding his name, but doesn't require it. Personally, I don't find the use of such bolding to be necessary, but that is less important than providing the necessary context connecting him to the shooting in the sentence that introduces him. Dragons flight ( talk) 18:34, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Re: [2]
Parsley Man's second revert, but at least he gave an edit summary this time. My contention is that we don't include everything that's sourced ( WP:ONUS), so his edit summary doesn't hold a drop of water. The question is: Are the exact dates significant enough to include, or are the years alone enough? ― Mandruss ☎ 00:12, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
I implemented the edits because they were sourcedSo you said in your editsum. Again, see WP:ONUS. Given that, and given your "simple-minded reader" comment (with which I whole-heartedly agree), any remaining objection to stating only the years? ― Mandruss ☎ 10:59, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
So...yeah. Anyone want to pull the trigger on undoing the unilateral move with zero discussion or consensus? TimothyJosephWood 23:36, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Baton Rouge, Louisiana or Baton Rouge, Louisiana (for example)
The Wikipedia community may oppose a guideline that would put an end to the senseless back-and-forth editing in this area, but that doesn't mean we can't solve the problem at article level. This article is currently not even consistent on this point, the back-and-forth editing being very selective. I have my preference, but I'll gladly accept the opposite if it will put an end to this nonsense at one article. Going forward, I will probably do this at any article where I see any back-and-forth editing of this. I suggest others do that, too.
[[Saint Paul, Minnesota|Saint Paul]], [[Minnesota]]
. Use target article title to determine whether to show the state name; if Wikipedia deems the state name unnecessary there, it should also be unnecessary in linking content. ―
Mandruss
☎ 12:39, 21 July 2016 (UTC)There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2016 shootings of Des Moines police officers which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 08:20, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2016 shooting of Baton Rouge police officers article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 3 July 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to 2016 murders of Baton Rouge police officers. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
The event is still "active" and there's no indication of enduring notability. I'll wait before going to afd until the duration is resolved and we know more, but come on... EvergreenFir (talk) 15:57, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Live interview with a senior officer on MSNBC just claimed one suspect dead likely other multiple suspects at large. We need to be careful how this is integrated into the article. Remember that early reports in Dallas also reported multiple suspects. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 16:33, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Way too soon for motives but not for facts. I had to come here just to find out what happened, after wading through yards of spin and pre-emptive strikes from the Washington Post and NY Times. I skipped Fox News. The Times ended its brief story with four full paragraphs interviewing some random gun nut in another town. I guess our gun laws are their story tomorrow. I'd like to know what happened today. Wikipedia told me that in three minutes. Wiki is becoming the Newspaper of Record for these things. Profhum ( talk) 18:39, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
There is a lot of chatter, some of which is being alluded to by mainstream media/press sources that the suspected gunman may have had ties to the sovereign citizen movement. This may in fact prove to be the case. But we need clear and definitive statements from multiple RS sources before we put that into the article per WP:BLP (which does apply to the recently deceased). - Ad Orientem ( talk) 22:29, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
I added that he attended the U of Alabama based on a Washington Times article but that may be a mistake (a man with the same name) because on his (possible) own website he says he attended "After completing an Associate’s degree in General Studies at Central Texas College, Cosmo then attended Clark Atlanta University to further his education." after being in the United States Marine Corps.
https://twitter.com/jonswaine/status/754806684720177152 http://www.cosmoglobal.org/#!about/cjg9
Should I remove the U of Alabama sentence? 208.44.84.138 ( talk) 22:42, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
What does this even mean? It makes no sense. Beejsterb ( talk) 23:39, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
I read that article you linked to. Good mainstream explanation of the term as used in ethnic studies these days, across the board. Profhum ( talk) 01:05, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
He thought he was a victim of gangstalking. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/17/baton-rouge-gunman-gavin-e-long-cosmo-setepenra-marines 208.44.84.138 ( talk) 02:26, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status/754828743403864064 "Investigators found on the body of the dead shooter Gavin Long a card suggesting he was a member of the Washitaw Nation"
http://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/2016/07/17/baton-rouge-shooter-may-have-embraced-bizarre-outlook/87234938/ "Shimon Prokupecz, a reporter for CNN, said a card was found on Gavin Long suggesting he was a member of the Washita Nation, a peculiar sovereign citizen movement group..."
208.44.84.138 ( talk) 03:21, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2016-07-18-baton-rouge-suspect-was-marine-who-served-in-iraq/#.V4xL07w0lR1 "Name change -A Jackson County, Kansas court document showed that Long successfully applied to have his name legally changed to Cosmo Ausar Setepenra. His application, which cited the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, was approved in May 2015. Long said he was a member of the Washitaw Nation, a group of African Americans claiming to be a Native American nation in the United States." 208.44.84.138 ( talk) 03:25, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
"His history of rambling postings indicated that the attack was motivated at least in part by killings by police of black Americans in recent years and the resulting unrest. " from The Guardian EvergreenFir (talk) 04:19, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Explaining my changes to the coordinates, which were modified in this edit.
New York Times has now published a graphic showing the location of the Hair Crown beauty supply shop, here. That new information shifts the center of the event in that direction, and I am adjusting the coordinates accordingly. To reiterate, the coordinates point to the approximate center of a ~100-m circle that encloses most or all of the event. ― Mandruss ☎ 11:47, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
If the 2016 shooting of Baton Rouge police officers is notable, then so is the 2016 shooting of Almaty police officers that happened a day later ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36823422). -- Gerrit C U T E D H 17:37, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
@ Parsley Man: you keep writing the sentences like:
As an introduction to the shooter, that totally misses the point, since it never identifies him as the shooter. This is the first time the shooter is named outside the lead, and certainly makes sense to identify him as the shooter (especially if someone comes in through a redirect to the section). There is no requirement that the section literally start with his name, so I added "The shooter was identified as ..." to the front of the sentence which provides the necessary context. Incidentally WP:R#PLA allows for bolding his name, but doesn't require it. Personally, I don't find the use of such bolding to be necessary, but that is less important than providing the necessary context connecting him to the shooting in the sentence that introduces him. Dragons flight ( talk) 18:34, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Re: [2]
Parsley Man's second revert, but at least he gave an edit summary this time. My contention is that we don't include everything that's sourced ( WP:ONUS), so his edit summary doesn't hold a drop of water. The question is: Are the exact dates significant enough to include, or are the years alone enough? ― Mandruss ☎ 00:12, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
I implemented the edits because they were sourcedSo you said in your editsum. Again, see WP:ONUS. Given that, and given your "simple-minded reader" comment (with which I whole-heartedly agree), any remaining objection to stating only the years? ― Mandruss ☎ 10:59, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
So...yeah. Anyone want to pull the trigger on undoing the unilateral move with zero discussion or consensus? TimothyJosephWood 23:36, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Baton Rouge, Louisiana or Baton Rouge, Louisiana (for example)
The Wikipedia community may oppose a guideline that would put an end to the senseless back-and-forth editing in this area, but that doesn't mean we can't solve the problem at article level. This article is currently not even consistent on this point, the back-and-forth editing being very selective. I have my preference, but I'll gladly accept the opposite if it will put an end to this nonsense at one article. Going forward, I will probably do this at any article where I see any back-and-forth editing of this. I suggest others do that, too.
[[Saint Paul, Minnesota|Saint Paul]], [[Minnesota]]
. Use target article title to determine whether to show the state name; if Wikipedia deems the state name unnecessary there, it should also be unnecessary in linking content. ―
Mandruss
☎ 12:39, 21 July 2016 (UTC)There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2016 shootings of Des Moines police officers which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 08:20, 3 July 2022 (UTC)