As mentioned in the delisting thread, the prose is a bit boring, most notably in the race summary section. I will copyedit the article in the coming days to try to fix this problem; I also encourage others to help.
Here's a quick example: every single sentence in the lead began with "The race" or "The Showtime Southern 500". I've
tried to put some variety into it.
In the race summary section, there are sentences used over and over thast start with On lap x, driver led until driver passed him for the lead. --Nascar1996(
sign)04:07, 18 June 2010 (UTC)reply
True; it's getting late here, and I will take a look at it tomorrow. For now, I've made some
adjustments to the Practice and qualifying section. On another note, I have done some sports writing before; not sure if it applies here on Wikipedia, but the way I wrote, once a person's full name was mentioned, only their last name was used from there on out. I have also
asked for the help of another editor.
Airplaneman ✈04:19, 18 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I saw Wizardman's review of another race article which you also nominated; please use his suggestions here, as I think they'll help. I'll copyedit the whole article tomorrow and continue the review.
Airplaneman ✈03:49, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I would encourage the nominator to try and look for a few more third party sources. At first glance, all sources seem reliable, but more (reliable) sources couldn't hurt.
I'm not too into sports, and this is the first sports-related article I have reviewed; I don't know the "best" (aka most reliable) sports websites. You've used a good number (5 minus NASCAR), but maybe you can get even more news from
Yahoo! Sports or
Sports Illustrated. Of course, you don't need to redundantly source a fact with, say, three or four different references, but using more (reliable) third-party sources opens you up to more (hopefully new) information.
I would like to see more background information on the race, similar to what is at
2010 Toyota/Save Mart 350.
Seconded, the significance of the race isn't explained, it doesn't say if the points lead changed, if this race was significant in terms of standings, etc. --
Terrillja talk19:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
Don't give up now! You can always hack through the backlogs in December or something when the season's over :). If you give up, I'm failing the GAN :O
Airplaneman ✈20:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I quess your going to have to fail it, unless you want to see if NSD will help. I am for sure that I won't be able to fix these problem by tommorrow. Also, I only meant fixing this article; I'll have to fix it after the season then renominate it. --Nascar1996Contribs /
Tasks20:16, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
If you or NSD haven't fixed it in two days, I'll be inclined to do it myself and ask for a second opinion. I'd hate to see our hard work to get to this point go to waste so close to the goal of GA.
Airplaneman ✈20:43, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I want all of the articles like these to be GA, but with sports talk and everything no one will think there good. I'll try to fix it but Terrija is making it a lot harder. --Nascar1996Contribs /
Tasks20:52, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
That's not the way to look at it. As the saying goes, blame the game, not the player (or something like that). If it's not up to scratch with
WP:WIAGA, it's our job as reviewers and editors to tell you so here at this GA review.
Airplaneman ✈21:27, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
(
edit conflict)I'm assuming that you mean me, even though that username isn't close to mine. I don't think that any of my tags or requests are unreasonable or honestly hard to do. For example, [Someone] had a bad start. It isn't cited or supported by the summary, so I tagged it. Either there is a source that says that or you can just remove it and skip ahead to the next bit of action. There are other things that I haven't bothered to nitpick on, like saying lap 36 and then spelling out the fifty-third lap later on (it may be different numbers, but you get the point). Some consistency in text would be good, but I haven't gone out of my way to be unreasonable. I think the main issue is that you see these articles like they must be written and make it to GA in a week so you can move on to the next race. Wikipedia will be here in a few months, there is no reason to rush these through GA as "good enough". I'm not out to knock the articles or try to get them deleted or anything like that, my edits have been in the interest of improving the articles for future readers who may not understand all the terminology.--
Terrillja talk
Sorry about your user name, but everything in the race summary secion it referenced by the Rac summary one. It is at the end of every paragraph. --Nascar1996Contribs /
Tasks22:02, 24 June 2010 (UTC) 21:29, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have
fair use rationales:
B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with
suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:
More
As the comments above are cluttering the review, I'm going to put more comments down here. Note that I have
copyedited the article again; please make sure I didn't change the meaning of anything.
Lead
Please explain what a "caution" is. A link should do it.
When explaining the drivers' championship, you mention Kyle Busch's car build: Kyle Busch was third with 1,358 points in a Toyota. It is not mentioned for any of the other four drivers. For consistency, either mention it all of the time or leave it out. I would recommend the latter, as you don't need to go into excessive detail when the focus is on points, not car build, which readers may figure out in the results section. It also makes the prose more awkward, IMO.
There were only two practice sessions the day before the race—are there usually more? If so, how many? Are there more on other days? If not, the prose is misleading and "only" should be removed. Try There were [only?] two practice sessions, both on the day before the race.
Second paragraph, second sentence: Gordon maintained the lead until Brian Vickers overtook him on lap 38, as Dave Blaney went to the garage is confusing. Did Vickers overtake Gordon because Blaney went to the garage (for what reason, by the way? – source the reason!) or Blaney go to the garage because Vickers overtook Gordon? Are you trying to say Gordon maintained the lead until Brian Vickers overtook him on lap 38. On the same lap, Dave Blaney went to the garage?
Second paragraph, last sentence: The third caution came out on lap 62 when Paul Menard turned sideways on the back straightaway. It'd be nice if you could link it for an explanation.
Third paragraph, second sentence: On lap 83, a multiple car spin involving Greg Biffle, Martin Truex, Jr., and Jimmie Johnson—try "accident", or On lap 83, a multiple car spun out [no link needed since it is linked above per
WP:OVERLINK involving Greg Biffle, Martin Truex, Jr., and Jimmie Johnson.
Well, I know what it means :), but not everyone will. Try On lap 171, debris in the second turn, which is situated before the backstretch, caused the fifth caution or something to that affect. And no, it doesn't sound smart—you're just doing your job explaining things. It is potentially confusing otherwise.
Airplaneman ✈Review?03:11, 6 July 2010 (UTC)reply
Fourth paragraph, penultimate sentence: Ten laps later, Tony Stewart spun on the backstretch to bring out the seventh caution. Define/link backstretch, or rename to back straightaway, or rename back straightaway to backstretch.
Great! I've made some changes, fixed a ref, and am now happy with the section. Please see my note about the second turn above, if you missed it. Everything else looks in order. The only thing left is in the references section: website names, such as NASCAR.com and Fox Sports.com are sometimes italicized, sometimes not. Pick one or the other, please. Note that Los Angeles Times and USA Today are italicized, as they are newspapers.
Airplaneman ✈Review?03:11, 6 July 2010 (UTC)reply
Overall, this article has definitely benifitted from a second GAR. I'm not going to give a specific deadline for the changes to be made, but I will fail it if progress isn't made in a reasonable amount of time, say, two to three weeks.
Airplaneman ✈Review?20:59, 5 July 2010 (UTC)reply
As mentioned in the delisting thread, the prose is a bit boring, most notably in the race summary section. I will copyedit the article in the coming days to try to fix this problem; I also encourage others to help.
Here's a quick example: every single sentence in the lead began with "The race" or "The Showtime Southern 500". I've
tried to put some variety into it.
In the race summary section, there are sentences used over and over thast start with On lap x, driver led until driver passed him for the lead. --Nascar1996(
sign)04:07, 18 June 2010 (UTC)reply
True; it's getting late here, and I will take a look at it tomorrow. For now, I've made some
adjustments to the Practice and qualifying section. On another note, I have done some sports writing before; not sure if it applies here on Wikipedia, but the way I wrote, once a person's full name was mentioned, only their last name was used from there on out. I have also
asked for the help of another editor.
Airplaneman ✈04:19, 18 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I saw Wizardman's review of another race article which you also nominated; please use his suggestions here, as I think they'll help. I'll copyedit the whole article tomorrow and continue the review.
Airplaneman ✈03:49, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I would encourage the nominator to try and look for a few more third party sources. At first glance, all sources seem reliable, but more (reliable) sources couldn't hurt.
I'm not too into sports, and this is the first sports-related article I have reviewed; I don't know the "best" (aka most reliable) sports websites. You've used a good number (5 minus NASCAR), but maybe you can get even more news from
Yahoo! Sports or
Sports Illustrated. Of course, you don't need to redundantly source a fact with, say, three or four different references, but using more (reliable) third-party sources opens you up to more (hopefully new) information.
I would like to see more background information on the race, similar to what is at
2010 Toyota/Save Mart 350.
Seconded, the significance of the race isn't explained, it doesn't say if the points lead changed, if this race was significant in terms of standings, etc. --
Terrillja talk19:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
Don't give up now! You can always hack through the backlogs in December or something when the season's over :). If you give up, I'm failing the GAN :O
Airplaneman ✈20:01, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I quess your going to have to fail it, unless you want to see if NSD will help. I am for sure that I won't be able to fix these problem by tommorrow. Also, I only meant fixing this article; I'll have to fix it after the season then renominate it. --Nascar1996Contribs /
Tasks20:16, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
If you or NSD haven't fixed it in two days, I'll be inclined to do it myself and ask for a second opinion. I'd hate to see our hard work to get to this point go to waste so close to the goal of GA.
Airplaneman ✈20:43, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
I want all of the articles like these to be GA, but with sports talk and everything no one will think there good. I'll try to fix it but Terrija is making it a lot harder. --Nascar1996Contribs /
Tasks20:52, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
That's not the way to look at it. As the saying goes, blame the game, not the player (or something like that). If it's not up to scratch with
WP:WIAGA, it's our job as reviewers and editors to tell you so here at this GA review.
Airplaneman ✈21:27, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
(
edit conflict)I'm assuming that you mean me, even though that username isn't close to mine. I don't think that any of my tags or requests are unreasonable or honestly hard to do. For example, [Someone] had a bad start. It isn't cited or supported by the summary, so I tagged it. Either there is a source that says that or you can just remove it and skip ahead to the next bit of action. There are other things that I haven't bothered to nitpick on, like saying lap 36 and then spelling out the fifty-third lap later on (it may be different numbers, but you get the point). Some consistency in text would be good, but I haven't gone out of my way to be unreasonable. I think the main issue is that you see these articles like they must be written and make it to GA in a week so you can move on to the next race. Wikipedia will be here in a few months, there is no reason to rush these through GA as "good enough". I'm not out to knock the articles or try to get them deleted or anything like that, my edits have been in the interest of improving the articles for future readers who may not understand all the terminology.--
Terrillja talk
Sorry about your user name, but everything in the race summary secion it referenced by the Rac summary one. It is at the end of every paragraph. --Nascar1996Contribs /
Tasks22:02, 24 June 2010 (UTC) 21:29, 24 June 2010 (UTC)reply
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have
fair use rationales:
B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with
suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:
More
As the comments above are cluttering the review, I'm going to put more comments down here. Note that I have
copyedited the article again; please make sure I didn't change the meaning of anything.
Lead
Please explain what a "caution" is. A link should do it.
When explaining the drivers' championship, you mention Kyle Busch's car build: Kyle Busch was third with 1,358 points in a Toyota. It is not mentioned for any of the other four drivers. For consistency, either mention it all of the time or leave it out. I would recommend the latter, as you don't need to go into excessive detail when the focus is on points, not car build, which readers may figure out in the results section. It also makes the prose more awkward, IMO.
There were only two practice sessions the day before the race—are there usually more? If so, how many? Are there more on other days? If not, the prose is misleading and "only" should be removed. Try There were [only?] two practice sessions, both on the day before the race.
Second paragraph, second sentence: Gordon maintained the lead until Brian Vickers overtook him on lap 38, as Dave Blaney went to the garage is confusing. Did Vickers overtake Gordon because Blaney went to the garage (for what reason, by the way? – source the reason!) or Blaney go to the garage because Vickers overtook Gordon? Are you trying to say Gordon maintained the lead until Brian Vickers overtook him on lap 38. On the same lap, Dave Blaney went to the garage?
Second paragraph, last sentence: The third caution came out on lap 62 when Paul Menard turned sideways on the back straightaway. It'd be nice if you could link it for an explanation.
Third paragraph, second sentence: On lap 83, a multiple car spin involving Greg Biffle, Martin Truex, Jr., and Jimmie Johnson—try "accident", or On lap 83, a multiple car spun out [no link needed since it is linked above per
WP:OVERLINK involving Greg Biffle, Martin Truex, Jr., and Jimmie Johnson.
Well, I know what it means :), but not everyone will. Try On lap 171, debris in the second turn, which is situated before the backstretch, caused the fifth caution or something to that affect. And no, it doesn't sound smart—you're just doing your job explaining things. It is potentially confusing otherwise.
Airplaneman ✈Review?03:11, 6 July 2010 (UTC)reply
Fourth paragraph, penultimate sentence: Ten laps later, Tony Stewart spun on the backstretch to bring out the seventh caution. Define/link backstretch, or rename to back straightaway, or rename back straightaway to backstretch.
Great! I've made some changes, fixed a ref, and am now happy with the section. Please see my note about the second turn above, if you missed it. Everything else looks in order. The only thing left is in the references section: website names, such as NASCAR.com and Fox Sports.com are sometimes italicized, sometimes not. Pick one or the other, please. Note that Los Angeles Times and USA Today are italicized, as they are newspapers.
Airplaneman ✈Review?03:11, 6 July 2010 (UTC)reply
Overall, this article has definitely benifitted from a second GAR. I'm not going to give a specific deadline for the changes to be made, but I will fail it if progress isn't made in a reasonable amount of time, say, two to three weeks.
Airplaneman ✈Review?20:59, 5 July 2010 (UTC)reply