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The European Union, the United Kingdom should be deleted or add other european countires as well as uk and us in there as uk is part of europe so counts as european union. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.199.25 ( talk) 01:57, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Is this section really necessary? Or can't we at least trim it down? Bsimmons666 ( talk) 18:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
OK. Wikipedia's standard is that we only use reliable sources. Why are we including data that is unreliable? -- Elliskev 02:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I understand the distinction between the poll data as reported by reliable sources and the poll data as reliable. I have a problem the inclusion of data, especially as it is presented, that is known to be of questionable reliability. Sure, it's not covered by WP:RS, but it just seems wrong and misleading to give any of it any weight. A summary might be appropriate, but that's all. -- Elliskev 16:39, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Weird... M99 87.59.76.239 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC).
The same way you count votes in ballot boxes before they have been unsealed and opened, all you have to do is have your cronies fill a few of them the week before on the "two for me, one for you" basis, then you know whats in there before you open the box. That's just for some sembelance of legality, it's much easier to just throw all the ballot boxes in a corner and make the results up as you go. MattUK ( talk) 20:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually from the information in the free press around the world is that most of the counting was done at the MOI. Also virtually all the free press around the world has been stating that the opposition observers were denied access to the polling stations and that it was only Ahmedinejad’s henchmen who were allowed free access while voting was going on. There are also irregularities in the fact that the few regions that announced their results independently had their news sources shut down immediately, and then when they “official” sources were released the numbers were dramatically different from the original (surprise surprise to the benefit of Ahmedinejad).
I think what you meant when you said “The count from each station were then transferred to MOI where they summed up the count and released it” was that the already “adjusted” figures were sent to the MOI where they were totally disregarded and the MOI published figures prepared by Ahmedinejad to give him the election, meanwhile where the ballots were in transit, some of the ballot papers were switched for papers with votes for Ahmedinejad.
Isn’t it also amazing how virtually everyone who was illiterate (a not insignificant proportion of the population) voted for Ahmedinejad, quite surprising how when one of the “officials” in the polling stations tells you that they have written your choice on the ballot paper, it always reads “Ahmedinejad” regardless of what they were asked to write. That apart from the fact that secret police were looking over the shoulders of a lot of people who voted to see if they wrote down the "correct" candidate. MattUK ( talk) 08:43, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
128.100.5.198, you also make these claims without citing a reliable source; and I recall also having read what Matt claims (but sorry I didn't note the source). ARE there any reliable sources on this? Probably best is to cite sources, without claiming how reliable they are. Harald88 ( talk) 20:21, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
I've read it on both The Times and The Telegraph websites, although don't have time to go searching for the correct source right now, I'll try and get to it later. I would hardly say that the election law is a reliable source of what actually happened, yes it's a good source for what should have happened, but not for what actually happened.
I would hardly say that the MOI is a valid source for what actually happened, being that it is the organisation which is primarily implicated in the whole affair, Ahmedinejad may have been the instigator, but the MOI conducted the fraud. International as well as free Iranian (before it was shut down) press all reported that opposition observers were either stopped from entering most polling stations, or were ejected either after a few hours or before the votes were counted.
Can I asked where you actually voted, just that comments from IP's in the range of 128.100.5.###, which all seem to be from the same person have been appearing from just after the election onwards, and the 128.100.5.### range is registered to the University of Toronto in Canada. I would also be interested in where you voted from being that the news reports were that the secret police weren't out in force in Ahmedinejad strongholds as they didn't feel they needed to be, where as in the vast majority of the country where the other candidates were expected to win they were conducing "voter coercion". MattUK ( talk) 09:18, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8110877.stm There is a source stating that the opposition observers were denied their legal right to be present in the polling stations. MattUK ( talk) 09:26, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
That source also mentions about the fact that the votes were counted far too fast, where in past elections the count has taken 24 hours, this one it took only 4 which seems a bit odd in itself. It also mentions irregularities which are just downright odd, like the lack of regional variances in voting patterns, and even in the tribal areas of the opposition candidates they votes were against them which is just make beleive. As well as in a few provinces like Khoresan or Mazandaran more people voted than there were registered voters. There are just too many things that point to fraud, for it not to be fraud, if it was a free and fair election then you wouldnt have all these quite major problems with the figures popping up. MattUK ( talk) 09:31, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
The straight foward answer is this. Ahmadienjad said this in a CNN Larry King interview. He said that each polling station serves no more than a 1000 people. Each polling station counts induvidually and then sends thier results to the central commitee. It takes longer in the west because each station does not count individually. 99.247.60.143 ( talk) 17:20, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
The answer is very simple: They started counting all the votes as they came in, since the beginning of the day. But this just shows how POV wikipedia has become... Kermanshahi ( talk) 16:58, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Can someone fluent in Farsi translate this: http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2742/fnss45.jpg Someone already translated but I'd like it confirmed, since it would be pretty damning evidence... Planetary ( talk) 05:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
This is letter by Interior Minister Sadeq Mahsuli to the Leader Seyed Ali Khamenei, singed and dated for 1388/3/23, this is my translation, it is not easy to translate:
I have no doubt this is fake. This is on government paper of MOI, no intelligent being will use such a thing for writing something like this. Also it is dated but not numbered that makes it being written on MOI paper meaningless (all official government papers have to be numbered), and nobody even the most out of mind reformists did not expected Ahmadinejad to get less than 9 million votes, or Karroubi getting more than a few millions. IMHO, this is just propaganda. 128.100.5.143 ( talk) 06:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I corrected the statement that Mohsen Makhmalbaf is an "official speaker" for Mousavi. The officials in Mousavi's campaign headquarter has repeatedly stated that the only speakers for Mousavi are member of the headquarter (only the main headquarter, not other groups supporting him) and their official websites: Kaleme.ir and GhalamNews.ir. Mohsen Makhmalbaf claimed that the websites are hacked which was denied by Mousavi. They restated that the people should not rely on any other source as reliable other than those stated as speaking for Mousavi.
LjL said in a note on history page for the main article that: "Merge article that might be deleted, if there is anything well-sourced in it"
The article is Coup of 12 June. As far as I have looked at it, it is not very accurate. The only thing I can confirm is that Mohsen Makhmalbaf and a website by supporters of Mousavi named named Moj.ir claimed after first results were announced that a Coup has taken place. This was later repeated on Karbaschi's twitter. In the later weeks some major reformist parties like Mosharekat has used the term in their announcements. I think these can be used in the part for Iranian Reactions. rdt ( talk) 04:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I am copying the following from user samic130's talk page: rdt ( talk) 05:50, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Vandalism - The first paragraph of this part of the article has been "intentionally" misinterpreted from Persian. Mr. Makhmalbaf's claim to be an "official spokesman" of Mr. Mousavi has never been directly denied by any Mr. Mousavi's official websites: "Ghlamnews" or "Kalemeh". In fact, Mr. Makhmalbaf's name has not been mentioned in the Ghalamnews or Kalemeh websites at all, and searching for his name has no result. In addition, Ghalamnews website has not denied the existence of any official or unofficial "spokesman". The translation of Ghalamnews statement which is of course Mr. Mousavi's statement is "There have been some rumors said that the Ghalamnews had been hacked. Hereby, we emphasize that the Ghalamnews has not been hacked, and these rumors are aimed to deviate peoples from the main source of Mr. Mousavi's news." and "We have been emphasized several times that Mr. Mousavi's official news and statements are published in Ghalamnews and Kalemeh websites, therefore if it has been hacked it would not have published his last news and statements." (I have not translated the whole text because the rest of the text seems not to be necessary to be translated). I am sure that there are many Persian speaking WP editors who can confirm this misinterpretation in the article's text. Besides, I have also added some new English references for Mr. Makhmalbaf's speech in the added text. Thanks.-- Andi horn ( talk) 14:15, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I see why you reverted my edit of the first paragraph of 2009 Iranian election protests but I still think it is confusing. It now sounds as if the current protests are called the Coup of June 12 and I don't think that's your intention. Perhaps the naming of the Coup of June 12 should be moved further down in the article? lyonspen | (talk) 14:32, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
no it's not good! the main thing about this article is that there is a coup in iran now! (i'm iranian) and this is the most important thing in a country! so don't put it in overview please!! -- Samic130 ( talk) 15:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
being a coup or not is not my opinion! see the related article! also there is no rules for contribution! -- Samic130 ( talk) 16:36, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Also it's intresting that a user like this: [1] is talking about MY contribution!!! -- Samic130 ( talk) 05:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Please DO NOT DELETE the added text. You are "editors", not "deleters". Have the courage, discuss and edit the text. This text is based on highly reliable sources.-- Andi horn ( talk) 14:18, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Minister of Interior, Sadegh Mahsouli appeared on Iranian State television http://alef.ir/1388/content/view/48390/ and tried to answer claims and questions about election fraud. About higher that 100% turn out he stated that this has happened in previous elections. For example he stated that the turn out in Sheminranat (in North of Tehran) was 800% in this election and has been over 100% in previous ones. He stated that this is normal as people are not required to vote where the are registered when they have been born (also note that there is no other registration for voting, therefore the statement without this point that this is birth registration is misleading to people think that there is a separate registration for voting before election which is not the case.) So the sentence that they (Ministery of Interior) considers this normal is correct. He also stated that Shemiranat has more voters than all other places with higher that 100% turn out all together, and two third of votes cast in Shemiranat was for Mousavi. rdt ( talk) 12:53, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
The only coup attempt was by Mousavi who tried to get his protestors to violently overthrow the elected government. But than as his support was to small he failed miserably. Kermanshahi ( talk) 19:30, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Rakhshan Bani Etemad has appeared in one of Mousavi's TV advertisements, therefore I am not sure it is non-partisan as it is claimed. 128.100.5.135 ( talk) 19:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
The first paragraph of this section is almost entirely free from citations, and makes sweeping claims such as "No credible evidence of fraud has ever been found." Perhaps I should familiarize myself with the details surrounding the election a bit more, but somehow I highly doubt that such a high proportion of the international community outside of the Middle East would take the allegations and protests so seriously if in fact zero evidence whatsoever had ever been presented. It's written in a style that suggests a highly personal point of view, as if the author had an ax to grind. The first citation is about 4/5 of the way through and links to a "comprehensive report" on a personal blog written by an author without a Wikipedia article of his own (though his non-existen article is still linked to as if someone believed he mightone day become notable)...somehow, this seems to stink not just of non-neutrality but of original research. I'd consider taking action myself, but it's been years since I was active on Wikipedia and I'm a bit trigger shy of making any substantial edits at this point. Theaterfreak64 ( talk) 05:08, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Not every sentence needs a citation, one citation can be provided for several sentences. What you are proposing is to completely delete everything from the article representing the view of majority of Iranians and the government that the elections were not rigged and leave the article with only green movement propaganda. Firtsly I want to make it clear there was no real proof at all, the "proof" provided were: a comparison of Ahmadinejad's 2005 first round results per province (in which 7 major candidates competed and none had a majority) with his 2009 results per province, which ofcourse showed and increase for Ahmadinejad votes everywhere and than the claim that this should be impossible, which "proves" Mousavi won. A claim by Mousavi office that the "actual results" leaked and showed him with 19 milion votes and Ahmadinejad with only 5 milion votes which contradicts the green movement's claims that the eelection results weren't counted at all, because the results were in (supposedly) much to quickly, which is their other "major proof" that the results were rigged. Another "proof" is the myth of "all Azeris would automaticly vote for Mousavi, disregaring all politics and voting purely on ethnic basis" (which should "prove" that the election was rigged as Ahmadinejad won in Tabriz), but at the same time the Persians are not gonna vote ethnicly for some reason unknown to us, infact they were all gonna vote for Mousavi the non-Persian. Other than these flawed theories presented by the Green movement you've got a few claims by them that anonymous government workers have admitted the election was rigged, the problem being that none of this can ever ben confirmed and the assumption that the fact that 100,000 people demonstrated in a city of 14,000,000 (metropolian area) - although nowhere else in the country the Greens could get over 1000 people - should make everyone believe that it is sooo obviously clear tha a vast majority of Iran's 74 milion people support this man. And all of these weak claims are mentioned throughout all articles related (and even articles hardly related) to the elections and/or green movement. Now if this is the only "proof" they have (which it is), why would pro-American governments and the media in their country's take it all so seriously? Simple, politics are politics. There has been a smear-campaign against Ahmadinejad, in western media ever since he got in power and against Iran ever since the revolution, because the Iranian politics do not coincide with American geo-strategic interests. Why do you think their camera crews prior to the elections only interviewed university students in Northern Tehran which spoke fluent English, while no other city, region or population group's views were ever shown on American news? Because they wanted to create an image that Mousavi is more populair, while infact he wasn't, as the fully legitimate results show. Kermanshahi ( talk) 14:40, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
facebook is filtred now —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.99.57.150 ( talk) 08:25, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
The idea wikipedians were giving when the election was done was it was rigged. Did this consensus change? -- Leladax ( talk) 21:23, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Wikileaks:Mousavi received approximately 26 million (or 61%) of the 42 million votes cast in Friday's election, followed by Mehdi Karroubi (10-12 million). According to his sources, Ahmadinejad received "a maximum of 4-5 million votes," with the remainder going to Mohsen Rezai. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/212138 29 november 2010, 00:25:28 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.27.87.169 ( talk)
The consensus hasn't really changed. Some Mousavi fanboys in among the Iranian diaspora continue to spread propaganda both here and on sites like facebook, youtube, twitter, insisting the election was rigged, meanwhile there has still been no proof at all, provided by anyone, other than contradicting claims by Iranian reformist leaders. The only thing that has changed is that the protests rapidly died down and inside Iran things have gone a lot more quiet since Ashura last year. Kermanshahi ( talk) 14:13, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
So you say American diplomats are lieing to themselves in the cables? that makes no sense.. 15:10, 8 januari 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.27.87.169 ( talk)
Unverified leaked confersations between low level diplomats of a foreign country are not proof. They can say whatever they want, how would they know? None of them even had any importance. Kermanshahi ( talk) 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, but who is Mr. Brill and why do I care about his analysis? His website ( http://brill-law.com/) tells me he is a corporate/securities lawyer based in San Francisco. Why is his blogged analysis interesting or noteworthy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akumabarai ( talk • contribs) 01:05, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
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The European Union, the United Kingdom should be deleted or add other european countires as well as uk and us in there as uk is part of europe so counts as european union. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.199.25 ( talk) 01:57, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Is this section really necessary? Or can't we at least trim it down? Bsimmons666 ( talk) 18:38, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
OK. Wikipedia's standard is that we only use reliable sources. Why are we including data that is unreliable? -- Elliskev 02:14, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I understand the distinction between the poll data as reported by reliable sources and the poll data as reliable. I have a problem the inclusion of data, especially as it is presented, that is known to be of questionable reliability. Sure, it's not covered by WP:RS, but it just seems wrong and misleading to give any of it any weight. A summary might be appropriate, but that's all. -- Elliskev 16:39, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Weird... M99 87.59.76.239 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC).
The same way you count votes in ballot boxes before they have been unsealed and opened, all you have to do is have your cronies fill a few of them the week before on the "two for me, one for you" basis, then you know whats in there before you open the box. That's just for some sembelance of legality, it's much easier to just throw all the ballot boxes in a corner and make the results up as you go. MattUK ( talk) 20:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Actually from the information in the free press around the world is that most of the counting was done at the MOI. Also virtually all the free press around the world has been stating that the opposition observers were denied access to the polling stations and that it was only Ahmedinejad’s henchmen who were allowed free access while voting was going on. There are also irregularities in the fact that the few regions that announced their results independently had their news sources shut down immediately, and then when they “official” sources were released the numbers were dramatically different from the original (surprise surprise to the benefit of Ahmedinejad).
I think what you meant when you said “The count from each station were then transferred to MOI where they summed up the count and released it” was that the already “adjusted” figures were sent to the MOI where they were totally disregarded and the MOI published figures prepared by Ahmedinejad to give him the election, meanwhile where the ballots were in transit, some of the ballot papers were switched for papers with votes for Ahmedinejad.
Isn’t it also amazing how virtually everyone who was illiterate (a not insignificant proportion of the population) voted for Ahmedinejad, quite surprising how when one of the “officials” in the polling stations tells you that they have written your choice on the ballot paper, it always reads “Ahmedinejad” regardless of what they were asked to write. That apart from the fact that secret police were looking over the shoulders of a lot of people who voted to see if they wrote down the "correct" candidate. MattUK ( talk) 08:43, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
128.100.5.198, you also make these claims without citing a reliable source; and I recall also having read what Matt claims (but sorry I didn't note the source). ARE there any reliable sources on this? Probably best is to cite sources, without claiming how reliable they are. Harald88 ( talk) 20:21, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
I've read it on both The Times and The Telegraph websites, although don't have time to go searching for the correct source right now, I'll try and get to it later. I would hardly say that the election law is a reliable source of what actually happened, yes it's a good source for what should have happened, but not for what actually happened.
I would hardly say that the MOI is a valid source for what actually happened, being that it is the organisation which is primarily implicated in the whole affair, Ahmedinejad may have been the instigator, but the MOI conducted the fraud. International as well as free Iranian (before it was shut down) press all reported that opposition observers were either stopped from entering most polling stations, or were ejected either after a few hours or before the votes were counted.
Can I asked where you actually voted, just that comments from IP's in the range of 128.100.5.###, which all seem to be from the same person have been appearing from just after the election onwards, and the 128.100.5.### range is registered to the University of Toronto in Canada. I would also be interested in where you voted from being that the news reports were that the secret police weren't out in force in Ahmedinejad strongholds as they didn't feel they needed to be, where as in the vast majority of the country where the other candidates were expected to win they were conducing "voter coercion". MattUK ( talk) 09:18, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8110877.stm There is a source stating that the opposition observers were denied their legal right to be present in the polling stations. MattUK ( talk) 09:26, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
That source also mentions about the fact that the votes were counted far too fast, where in past elections the count has taken 24 hours, this one it took only 4 which seems a bit odd in itself. It also mentions irregularities which are just downright odd, like the lack of regional variances in voting patterns, and even in the tribal areas of the opposition candidates they votes were against them which is just make beleive. As well as in a few provinces like Khoresan or Mazandaran more people voted than there were registered voters. There are just too many things that point to fraud, for it not to be fraud, if it was a free and fair election then you wouldnt have all these quite major problems with the figures popping up. MattUK ( talk) 09:31, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
The straight foward answer is this. Ahmadienjad said this in a CNN Larry King interview. He said that each polling station serves no more than a 1000 people. Each polling station counts induvidually and then sends thier results to the central commitee. It takes longer in the west because each station does not count individually. 99.247.60.143 ( talk) 17:20, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
The answer is very simple: They started counting all the votes as they came in, since the beginning of the day. But this just shows how POV wikipedia has become... Kermanshahi ( talk) 16:58, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Can someone fluent in Farsi translate this: http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2742/fnss45.jpg Someone already translated but I'd like it confirmed, since it would be pretty damning evidence... Planetary ( talk) 05:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
This is letter by Interior Minister Sadeq Mahsuli to the Leader Seyed Ali Khamenei, singed and dated for 1388/3/23, this is my translation, it is not easy to translate:
I have no doubt this is fake. This is on government paper of MOI, no intelligent being will use such a thing for writing something like this. Also it is dated but not numbered that makes it being written on MOI paper meaningless (all official government papers have to be numbered), and nobody even the most out of mind reformists did not expected Ahmadinejad to get less than 9 million votes, or Karroubi getting more than a few millions. IMHO, this is just propaganda. 128.100.5.143 ( talk) 06:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I corrected the statement that Mohsen Makhmalbaf is an "official speaker" for Mousavi. The officials in Mousavi's campaign headquarter has repeatedly stated that the only speakers for Mousavi are member of the headquarter (only the main headquarter, not other groups supporting him) and their official websites: Kaleme.ir and GhalamNews.ir. Mohsen Makhmalbaf claimed that the websites are hacked which was denied by Mousavi. They restated that the people should not rely on any other source as reliable other than those stated as speaking for Mousavi.
LjL said in a note on history page for the main article that: "Merge article that might be deleted, if there is anything well-sourced in it"
The article is Coup of 12 June. As far as I have looked at it, it is not very accurate. The only thing I can confirm is that Mohsen Makhmalbaf and a website by supporters of Mousavi named named Moj.ir claimed after first results were announced that a Coup has taken place. This was later repeated on Karbaschi's twitter. In the later weeks some major reformist parties like Mosharekat has used the term in their announcements. I think these can be used in the part for Iranian Reactions. rdt ( talk) 04:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I am copying the following from user samic130's talk page: rdt ( talk) 05:50, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Vandalism - The first paragraph of this part of the article has been "intentionally" misinterpreted from Persian. Mr. Makhmalbaf's claim to be an "official spokesman" of Mr. Mousavi has never been directly denied by any Mr. Mousavi's official websites: "Ghlamnews" or "Kalemeh". In fact, Mr. Makhmalbaf's name has not been mentioned in the Ghalamnews or Kalemeh websites at all, and searching for his name has no result. In addition, Ghalamnews website has not denied the existence of any official or unofficial "spokesman". The translation of Ghalamnews statement which is of course Mr. Mousavi's statement is "There have been some rumors said that the Ghalamnews had been hacked. Hereby, we emphasize that the Ghalamnews has not been hacked, and these rumors are aimed to deviate peoples from the main source of Mr. Mousavi's news." and "We have been emphasized several times that Mr. Mousavi's official news and statements are published in Ghalamnews and Kalemeh websites, therefore if it has been hacked it would not have published his last news and statements." (I have not translated the whole text because the rest of the text seems not to be necessary to be translated). I am sure that there are many Persian speaking WP editors who can confirm this misinterpretation in the article's text. Besides, I have also added some new English references for Mr. Makhmalbaf's speech in the added text. Thanks.-- Andi horn ( talk) 14:15, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I see why you reverted my edit of the first paragraph of 2009 Iranian election protests but I still think it is confusing. It now sounds as if the current protests are called the Coup of June 12 and I don't think that's your intention. Perhaps the naming of the Coup of June 12 should be moved further down in the article? lyonspen | (talk) 14:32, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
no it's not good! the main thing about this article is that there is a coup in iran now! (i'm iranian) and this is the most important thing in a country! so don't put it in overview please!! -- Samic130 ( talk) 15:09, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
being a coup or not is not my opinion! see the related article! also there is no rules for contribution! -- Samic130 ( talk) 16:36, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Also it's intresting that a user like this: [1] is talking about MY contribution!!! -- Samic130 ( talk) 05:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Please DO NOT DELETE the added text. You are "editors", not "deleters". Have the courage, discuss and edit the text. This text is based on highly reliable sources.-- Andi horn ( talk) 14:18, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Minister of Interior, Sadegh Mahsouli appeared on Iranian State television http://alef.ir/1388/content/view/48390/ and tried to answer claims and questions about election fraud. About higher that 100% turn out he stated that this has happened in previous elections. For example he stated that the turn out in Sheminranat (in North of Tehran) was 800% in this election and has been over 100% in previous ones. He stated that this is normal as people are not required to vote where the are registered when they have been born (also note that there is no other registration for voting, therefore the statement without this point that this is birth registration is misleading to people think that there is a separate registration for voting before election which is not the case.) So the sentence that they (Ministery of Interior) considers this normal is correct. He also stated that Shemiranat has more voters than all other places with higher that 100% turn out all together, and two third of votes cast in Shemiranat was for Mousavi. rdt ( talk) 12:53, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
The only coup attempt was by Mousavi who tried to get his protestors to violently overthrow the elected government. But than as his support was to small he failed miserably. Kermanshahi ( talk) 19:30, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Rakhshan Bani Etemad has appeared in one of Mousavi's TV advertisements, therefore I am not sure it is non-partisan as it is claimed. 128.100.5.135 ( talk) 19:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
The first paragraph of this section is almost entirely free from citations, and makes sweeping claims such as "No credible evidence of fraud has ever been found." Perhaps I should familiarize myself with the details surrounding the election a bit more, but somehow I highly doubt that such a high proportion of the international community outside of the Middle East would take the allegations and protests so seriously if in fact zero evidence whatsoever had ever been presented. It's written in a style that suggests a highly personal point of view, as if the author had an ax to grind. The first citation is about 4/5 of the way through and links to a "comprehensive report" on a personal blog written by an author without a Wikipedia article of his own (though his non-existen article is still linked to as if someone believed he mightone day become notable)...somehow, this seems to stink not just of non-neutrality but of original research. I'd consider taking action myself, but it's been years since I was active on Wikipedia and I'm a bit trigger shy of making any substantial edits at this point. Theaterfreak64 ( talk) 05:08, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Not every sentence needs a citation, one citation can be provided for several sentences. What you are proposing is to completely delete everything from the article representing the view of majority of Iranians and the government that the elections were not rigged and leave the article with only green movement propaganda. Firtsly I want to make it clear there was no real proof at all, the "proof" provided were: a comparison of Ahmadinejad's 2005 first round results per province (in which 7 major candidates competed and none had a majority) with his 2009 results per province, which ofcourse showed and increase for Ahmadinejad votes everywhere and than the claim that this should be impossible, which "proves" Mousavi won. A claim by Mousavi office that the "actual results" leaked and showed him with 19 milion votes and Ahmadinejad with only 5 milion votes which contradicts the green movement's claims that the eelection results weren't counted at all, because the results were in (supposedly) much to quickly, which is their other "major proof" that the results were rigged. Another "proof" is the myth of "all Azeris would automaticly vote for Mousavi, disregaring all politics and voting purely on ethnic basis" (which should "prove" that the election was rigged as Ahmadinejad won in Tabriz), but at the same time the Persians are not gonna vote ethnicly for some reason unknown to us, infact they were all gonna vote for Mousavi the non-Persian. Other than these flawed theories presented by the Green movement you've got a few claims by them that anonymous government workers have admitted the election was rigged, the problem being that none of this can ever ben confirmed and the assumption that the fact that 100,000 people demonstrated in a city of 14,000,000 (metropolian area) - although nowhere else in the country the Greens could get over 1000 people - should make everyone believe that it is sooo obviously clear tha a vast majority of Iran's 74 milion people support this man. And all of these weak claims are mentioned throughout all articles related (and even articles hardly related) to the elections and/or green movement. Now if this is the only "proof" they have (which it is), why would pro-American governments and the media in their country's take it all so seriously? Simple, politics are politics. There has been a smear-campaign against Ahmadinejad, in western media ever since he got in power and against Iran ever since the revolution, because the Iranian politics do not coincide with American geo-strategic interests. Why do you think their camera crews prior to the elections only interviewed university students in Northern Tehran which spoke fluent English, while no other city, region or population group's views were ever shown on American news? Because they wanted to create an image that Mousavi is more populair, while infact he wasn't, as the fully legitimate results show. Kermanshahi ( talk) 14:40, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
facebook is filtred now —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.99.57.150 ( talk) 08:25, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
The idea wikipedians were giving when the election was done was it was rigged. Did this consensus change? -- Leladax ( talk) 21:23, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Wikileaks:Mousavi received approximately 26 million (or 61%) of the 42 million votes cast in Friday's election, followed by Mehdi Karroubi (10-12 million). According to his sources, Ahmadinejad received "a maximum of 4-5 million votes," with the remainder going to Mohsen Rezai. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/212138 29 november 2010, 00:25:28 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.27.87.169 ( talk)
The consensus hasn't really changed. Some Mousavi fanboys in among the Iranian diaspora continue to spread propaganda both here and on sites like facebook, youtube, twitter, insisting the election was rigged, meanwhile there has still been no proof at all, provided by anyone, other than contradicting claims by Iranian reformist leaders. The only thing that has changed is that the protests rapidly died down and inside Iran things have gone a lot more quiet since Ashura last year. Kermanshahi ( talk) 14:13, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
So you say American diplomats are lieing to themselves in the cables? that makes no sense.. 15:10, 8 januari 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.27.87.169 ( talk)
Unverified leaked confersations between low level diplomats of a foreign country are not proof. They can say whatever they want, how would they know? None of them even had any importance. Kermanshahi ( talk) 19:25, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, but who is Mr. Brill and why do I care about his analysis? His website ( http://brill-law.com/) tells me he is a corporate/securities lawyer based in San Francisco. Why is his blogged analysis interesting or noteworthy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akumabarai ( talk • contribs) 01:05, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
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