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What's with the super young and somewhat anemic picture of Al Gore? That's not what he looked like in 2000, and it's *certainly* not what he looks like now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.0.41 ( talk) 15:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Could 72.140.17.5 of Toronto, Canada explain, how the Florida state County Clerk's office could find who actually won the state?
Can anyone substantiate this claim? The results listed in the article certainly don't lead to that conclusion.
We should establish a completely independent election commission like that of India with the subsequent campaign laws to include that of finance reform . it would be apolitical and would establish the standards for everything involving elections, To include common ballots and voting procedures, such as no bloc voting etc. You would actually have to read the ballot first and vote person by person, issue by issue.-- Tomtom 20:51, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
But the consortium, looking at a broader group of rejected ballots than those covered in the court decisions, 175,010 in all, found that Mr. Gore might have won if the courts had ordered a full statewide recount of all the rejected ballots. This also assumes that county canvassing boards would have reached the same conclusions about the disputed ballots that the consortium's independent observers did. The findings indicate that Mr. Gore might have eked out a victory if he had pursued in court a course like the one he publicly advocated when he called on the state to count all the votes.
This says "might" not would. The results of the first consortium recount didn't mention a possibility of a Gore win. -- Paul 01:11, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
In the "Minor Party Candidates" section, I recommend the "many Gore supporters blamed Nader" sentence be followed by some mention of Nader's rebuttal of this claim. (i.e. that 8 million or so Democrats nationwide (250,000 in Florida) voted for Bush, that exit polling by the Democratic Party indicated that the majority of Nader voters were not Democrats, etc.)
There should also be some mention of the controversy over Justices Scalia and Thomas. Some claim they acted improperly by failing to recuse themselves, since Thomas's wife and one or more of Scalia's sons worked with the Bush campaign.
After six years of arguing and bickering about the 2000 election, it is crystal clear that George W. Bush won Florida by more than 500 votes. The recount proved that Bush won. All this bickering about Bush stealing the 2000 election is a whole sham. Bush won and it's time to get over it!!
Bush did not win, I don't know where you get your sources, but if this is the free encyclopedia, then we need and encyclopedia run by non republicans, because that is what you probably are, just another republican who gives opinions without even bothering to check the sources. the 500 votes you are speaking about arrived by mail with dates marked after the elections took place, many of them in December. If you knew the law you would realize you cannot vote after the elections. furthermore, anyone that speaks for bush in the Florida election case, is a racist, because governor bush and the Florida state, together with the federal supreme court, violated the voting rights of hundreds of thousands of black people from who 94% would vote democratic. This should be called the red neck encyclopedia.
How do you know that it would have been 94%? Do you even have any reputable sources for these claims?
"not" within their rights under state law in Florida? Is there actually a law banning a vote recount in Florida? That would be jurisprudentially counter-intuitive, to say the least, and I am loath to give an inch to the notion that anyone would let such a dangerous law pass. That can't be right. Regardless of anything else, it is well within their natural rights. Kevin Baas | talk 22:08, 2004 Aug 11 (UTC)
The author has it absolutely 100% completely ass backwards. The section he cites as though it supported him gives the procedures for requesting a recount at the county level, of a minimum of 3 precincts to be chosen by the requestor. < http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0102/SEC166.HTM&Title=->2000->Ch0102->Section%20166#0102.166> The fact that the author did not put a link to the statutes cited in the text leads me to believe that he or she was operating from secondary sources, and not firsthand knowledge. Searching these statutes shows no description of a right to a statewide recount, nor a mandated procedure to request one, which would probably explain why, when Gore did suggest to Bush that they agree to do a single carefulstatewide recount, Bush was able to reject the suggestion, twice, leaving Gore with no legal recourse other than recounts by county:
Gore could, of course, have asked for a countywide recount individually in every single county, which in retrospect would have been the proper strategy, but did not, presumably because the 'Gore is stealing the election' spin which was put on any requests to actually manually count the ballots made any such request politically expensive. So, who's going to correct this? Gzuckier 17:17, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Gore has the 'right' to request pretty much anything he wants, from a free slice of apple pie to a condo on Io, but he didn't have a stutory right to get a statewide recount (now I'm sounding like markalexander), the way the statutes gave him the right to get a county recount on request, supported with some evidence, whether or not Bush agreed. But the law doesn't specifically bar a statewide recount either; I suppose the idea was that if both candidates agreed, then it could get tossed to the courts, and if they didn't see a problem a recounting we would go. Bush of course thinks 'you got nothing to lose, I got everything to lose, I'm not that dumb, contrary to popular opinion' and says no way. Gzuckier 20:16, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I made an edit to this awhile back and it was changed back to this. I found this same arugment (about only being legal in the case of a mechanical error) in conservative webpages. I think this really breaches neutrality. A "liberal" interpretation of the recount law should be added, or the conservative one deleted. If it's too controversial let's just leave it out, but the rendition is deceptive.
The paragraph starting with
seems to be somewhat erroneous in some places. For instance, I'm not sure the statement above is correct. Does anyone have supporting evidence and/or want to verify/edit the paragraph? Gzuckier 14:57, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
There is a lot of information on the topic of the Florida Central Voting file's role in the 2000 election. perhaps it deserves an article/its own subpage. What does the community think? (If yes, please suggest a title.) My title suggestion: " Florida Central Voting File" Kevin Baas | talk 20:42, 2004 Aug 19 (UTC)
If I recieve no feedback within the next 48 hours, I will consider this to be tacit acceptance, and create the page. Kevin Baas | talk 16:41, 2004 Aug 21 (UTC)
The page has been created: Florida Central Voting File.
Does anybody have any idea what this part of the sentence means?
? Gzuckier 14:09, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The following looks like a good source of info, but i wasn't able to locate an online source: http://www.nald.ca/PROVINCE/ONT/PLAIN/index.htm Greg Ioannou, Did a Butterfly Elect George Bush? The implications of design on voter literacy -- Espoo 08:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
There are conflicting statements in the article:
Al Gore publicly conceded the election after the Supreme Court, in the case Bush v. Gore, voted 7-2 (not 5-4 as often reported) to declare the recount procedure in process unconstitutional because it was not being carried out statewide.
...
This case eventually reached the United States Supreme Court, which ruled 5-4 to stop the vote count, which allowed Katherine Harris to certify the election results.
-- Myria 06:47, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Seven justices agreed that the recount being carried out was not constitutional (although Breyer and Souter only did so with reservations, as I recall from their opinion - the general interpretation is that they were trying to come up with a compromise that they could get Kennedy to sign on to, rather than that they really thought that the recounts violated equal protection). But only Breyer and Souter also said that it should be bounced back to Florida to determine a uniform standard so that recounts could proceed. So the key decision, that there could be no more recounts, was, indeed, a 5-4 decision. Also, it had nothing to do with being carried out statewide - the recount was being carried out statewide, just with different standards in each county. john k 05:50, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Okay, thanks honey. =^_^= I posted here because I don't know anything about the election and didn't want to edit something I don't know about. I guess the article needs to be clarified somehow but I wouldn't be one to do that, unfortunately =/
Myria 06:47, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
What happened to the butterfly ballot photo? It was part of the controversy and should not be deleted.
Why did someone change the map on this page? The one that is currently there is inconsistent with the maps for all other presidential elections. Yes, I know that on the old image Democratic states are red and Republican blue; however, if you go back and look, that is the coloring scheme used for all of the maps. In my opinion, the new image looks tacky and unprofessional. Quandary us 08:38, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I agree. Most coloring schemes the news agencies use have Republican as red and Democrats blue. Jwinters 1800, 2 Nov 2004 (PST)
Why does the map say that DC has only 2 electoral votes? It has 3. moonwatcher 21:05, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
The first thing that is not clear in my humble opinion: The Bush campaign sued to prevent additional recounts on the basis that no errors were found in the tabulation method until subjective measures were applied in manual recounts. What is exactly meant by subjective measures? Is it meant that the vote counters started looking at invalid ballots and looked if there were half punched in them? Is it meant that it is subjective whether a half punched hole is a vote for a candidate or a non-valid vote?
The second thing that is not clear in my humble opinion: Seven of the nine Justices agreed that the lack of unified standards in counting votes violated the Constitutional guarantee of equal protection, Why does the lack of unified standards violate the constitional guarantee of equal protection? Are there counting standards that would favor Al Gore? Protecting him more than George W. Bush? Or is this about the protection of voters in certain districts? Are some counting standards making more sure that the count is accurate and protecting voters in certain districts more? Paulus/laudaka (add me to your YIM/AIM/ICQ/M$N M contact list if you like!) Laudaka's talk page 20:02, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
votes in non-affirmative-action cases regarding the Equal Protection Clause. In those 46 votes, they voted in favor of Equal Protection a grand total of..... twice. (In contrast, their judicial colleagues in those cases voted in favor of Equal Protection 74% of the time.) Think of it; in this one single case, the three justices voted in favor of Equal Protection more often than they had in all non-affirmative-action cases in the previous decade. Could it be that actually there was something about this case other than Equal Protection that determined their 'not to be used as a precedent' ruling? Gzuckier 16:57, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The seven justices agreement bit is pretty dubious. It is pretty clear that Breyer and Souter did not believe this argument - they were making it as a way to try to tempt Kennedy into voting for a renewed count with a universal standard. In their own opinions, if one actually reads them, they essentially say only that it might be considered an equal protection violation, but the main thrust of their dissents is "even if it does, the proper remedy is to have a new count with a uniform standard, not to not have any counting at all." The weak adherence to the equal protection argument is pretty clearly for Kennedy's benefit. The supposed violation of equal protection, by the way, had nothing to do with blacks and whites - it had to do with different counties having different counting standards. john k 16:43, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
If I recall, there were a million absentee votes in California. Al Gore won California by more than a million votes; therefore, there was no reason to count these, as, of course, as we all know, the national popular vote is utterly irrelevant.
However, this introduces a problem. Absentee votes typically lean more Republican than Democrat. It is entirely possible that the uncounted absentee votes in California, and other states, could very well have put George W. Bush over the top. Therefore, harping on "Gore won the popular vote" is possibly not factual - there's simply no way to know, since the popular vote is irrelevant.
Does anyone else think this is worthy of addition to the article? I'd have to find a source though. -- Golbez 03:40, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
It is untrue that absentee ballots in California were not counted - this was something Republicans said at the time to make it seem as though Gore had not won the popular vote. In fact, every vote in California, and every other state, was counted, whether or not it made a difference in the final outcome in that state - recall also that president was not the only race on the ballot that year. john k 16:39, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Somebody wrote above that New York State does not count all absentee ballots unless necessary. But I looked at the NYS election law [2] and from what I can tell, it provides that all absentee ballots are to be counted. See Article 9, Title I, § 9-104(3)(c), which says:
In my view it would be remarkable if a jurisdiction's election law provided that you don't have to count all the ballots. Keep in mind that selecting a winner is just one of the purposes of elections in a democracy. Another purpose is to allow voters to express their view and have it counted. Any voter has the right to vote for some candidate far out of the mainstream and have that vote counted in the final tally. I have a hard time believing that in the U.S. there are any elections to state or federal office that don't require all the votes to be counted. -- Mathew5000 18:59, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
This is my first time in a discussion, so if I am doing anything wrong, please inform me. However, someone put that this was the third time in history that a president won a majority of electoral votes, but not as many popular votes. I don't think that is true, for instance the 1978 election. Can anyone else make some sense of this?
Is it just me or do the old maps have inverted colors vs. the 2004 red blue setup?? Confusing for users, no?
The NORC recount is not a 'less comprehensive study' than the University of Chicago recount, it IS the University of Chicago recount, which explains why the url is www.norc.uchicago.edu. The intent to include NPOV should not lead to mangling the basic inescapable facts to include the point of view of the ignorant. That's all I have to say about that. Gzuckier 16:38, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This information should be in the article: [3] Kevin Baas talk 21:11, 2005 Jan 5 (UTC)
I just made a quick anon change to fix a misspelling (dispite to despite) in a paragraph about Catherine Harris about 3/4 of the way down. I forgot to include an editing comment to let people know what change I made. Sorry.
Although the NORC study was not primarily intended as a determination of which candidate "really won", analysis of the results, given the hand counting of machine-uncountable ballots due to various types of voter error indicated that they would lead to differing results, reported in the newspapers which funded the recount, such as The Miami Herald (The Miami Herald Report: Democracy Held Hostage) or the Washington Post [6] ( http://www.aei.org/docLib/20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf).
esp.: ", analysis of the ..., given the ... due to ... types of ... indicated that they would lead to ..., reported in the .. which funded the ..., such as the ..." I'm sorry, you lost me. Kevin Baas talk: new 18:13, 2005 May 16 (UTC)
Why are the Republicans blue and the Democrats red in that image? It goes against current practice. 24.54.208.177 01:03, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Bush wasa born in Connecticut. According to his tax returns, his official residence is Illinois. Neither one is Texas. Kuralyov 22:38, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Bush was birn in Connecticut. SO WHAT? Al Gore was born in Washington, D.C. but I don't have yet to see someone change his home state from Tennessee to the District of Columbia. I thought it was pretty obvious that "Home State" means the state where the individual's home (primary residence) is. Also important is the state the individual was elected from. In both cases, for Bush this would be Texas.-- SpudHawg948 ( talk) 12:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Special:Contributions/User:68.7.179.38 made a change to the text about the recount process. He deleted some of the material and replaced it with a quote of F.S. Ch. 102.166 2c:
Upon receipt of a proper and timely request, the Elections Canvassing Commission or county canvassing board shall immediately order a manual recount of overvotes and undervotes in all affected jurisdictions.
I have checked the Florida Senate's site and verified that the Florida Statutes read this way now. However, this whole section has been massively revised since the 2000 election (as witnessed by the many references to July 1, 2002 for hardware and software certification), and I do not believe that this verbiage obtained in 2000. Therefore, I have reverted the edit until this section can be verified to have existed in the 2000 Florida Statutes.
— DLJessup 22:55, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Therefore, this line is incorrect: "an unexpectedly large number of votes for third-party candidate Patrick Buchanan, although he received roughly the same amount of votes there as he had received in the 1996 election"
Perhaps the writer meant that *the Reform Party* received roughly the same amount of votes there as it had received, with Ross Perot as its standard-bearer, in the 1996 election? If so, this is perhaps worth noting in passing, but it really doesn't prove anything at all, considering the vast differences in philosophy and political affiliation between Ross Perot and Pat Buchanan, and the fact that Perot's support nationwide was much stronger than Buchanan's.
I noticed that anonymous User:58.104.17.164 added the tag "citation needed" to the front of this article. It is unclear what this is supposed to apply to. I'm going to make a guess that he or she is referring to User:156.110.25.59's recent change of Bush's margin of victory from "several hundred" votes in Florida to "527" votes. If this is the case, I would refer User:58.104.17.164 to the table in "Florida election results" which is sourced to CBS News State Results for Election 2000. If not, I ask that he tell us what he is referring to here in the talk page. In any case, I will remove the "citation needed" tag.
— DLJessup ( talk) 12:50, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
"The vote was certified by Katherine Harris, the Florida Secretary of State and a Republican who had publicly supported Bush during the campaign. Additionally, Bush's younger brother, Jeb Bush, was the governor of Florida and this led to rumors that he had somehow "fixed" the election results to favor his brother." Hokay - Although much was made of Kat's political stance, it should not be included here. There is no pattern of attaching political leanings to an individual if that person is not running for office; this is a mild hint at an existent/nonexistent conspiracy. This belongs in her bio page. Next, the Jeb item, in addition to running along the same lines, isn't at all relevant to the paragraph. It's going.
According to the "U.S. Presidential Election, 2000" article:
This election was only the fourth time in United States history that a candidate had won the Presidency while losing the nationwide popular vote. (The other three times were the elections of 1824, 1876, and 1888.)
The above statement is incorrect, and is inconsistent with Wikipedia's U.S. presidential election, 1960 article. John Kennedy was also a minority president.
The statement was ambiguous. It used the word "won" but not "majority" or "plurality," the meat of the 2000 election. Many presidents have won without a majority, including Lincoln (the first time) and Clinton (both times) but they won a plurality in a first-past-the-post system and the electoral college. In 2000, then governor Bush won the former but not the latter, the key distinction. Probably best not to mention Jefferson or John Q. Adams and their election by the house.
Also--just realized my own edit's error of not mentioning electoral college. Will fix now. Levelistchampion 03:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm assuming that "home state" in the voting table refers to a candidate's state of legal residence, not where he was born (otherwise Bush's home state would be Connecticut). Anyway, Nader is listed as being from Connecticut here (where he was born), but according to the Ralph Nader page, "Nader inhabits a modest apartment in Washington DC". Should the table be changed to say that he's from DC or does he have legal Connecticut residence for some reason? Or is the Nader page inaccurate? (I have heard elsewhere that he lives in DC full time, so I'm betting the Nader page has it right.) -- Jfruh 14:50, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
It's not a POV to call it an "unprecedented" court decision. Never in America's history did the federal court system ever overrule a state's certification (either process or completed) and for this reason alone it needs to be mentioned as to why Bush won FL. It was an UNPRECEDENTED election because Bush won the state *only* from the judgements in the supreme court which forced to hault the tallying of the uncounted ballots. Sorry if that seems bias to you. It's just Reality!!!!-- Lamrock 06:51, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
As an Illinois republican who was around back in 1960, I can say that I wholely believe that Mayor Daley the Elder loaded up the ballot boxes across Chicago to put Illinois in the Democratic column in 1960. Nonetheless, I reverted the subtle reference to this because, as thin as the margin was, I have yet to see an analysis that makes a conclusive case that it is more likely than not that Nixon carried the national popular vote. Sure, 0.1% is a thin margin. But that 0.1% is a lot of votes, and probably a lot more than Daley added to the box. After all, Chicago was (and is) a Democratic town, Chicago was (and is) a Catholic city, and Chicago had (and has) one heck of a lot of Irish. It doesn't look like Daley is the reason that JFK carried the state so heavily. My own father caused a riff in our home when he voted Irish Catholic instead of Republican (for the only time in his life). He wasn't the only one to do so. Unschool 05:29, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
{{
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help)Can anyone explain to me why the colors changed? Why the switch and how did it happen?
There appears to be no discussion for the images on the article, so the answer may have been answered, but is not now. 134.250.72.141
The following text appears as the first paragraph of the "Results" subsection:
Vice President Al Gore came in second in the electoral vote even though he received a larger number of popular votes (Gore won 500,000 more popular votes than Bush) and this contributed to the controversy of the election. This was the fourth time that a candidate who did not receive a plurality of the popular vote received a majority of the Electoral College vote, the first time being in the 1824 elections, although popular vote records do not exist for earlier elections and in 1824 many states did not have a Presidential popular vote (in those states, electors were still chosen by the state legislature). Until this election, the 1888 election had been the most recent presidential election in which the winners of the popular and electoral vote differed. It should be pointed out that if the American system were based on the popular vote, rather than the Electoral College, then the focus and methods of campaigning would be different. Because of this, the validity of using popular-vote totals under the present system to predict who would have won an actual popular vote election is questionable.
I am going to cut out the claim that this is the fourth time that a candidate who did not receive a plurality of the PV received a majority of the EV. First of all, this repeats a claim made in the introduction, and it seems redundant to repeat it here. Secondly, it would seem to apply for the universe of all U.S. presidential elections and that's not true: for elections prior to 1824, this is a problematic claim because most states had their legislatures choose the electors. Even in the 1824 election, a quarter of the states used legislative choice for selecting the electors. When there was a popular vote, the vote was usually restricted to property-holders.
I am also going to cut out the "It should be pointed out…" statement about the fact that different candidates may have won the PV if it were a direct election. This is either a defense of Bush or a defense of the Electoral College, and it doesn't seem appropriate here.
— DLJessup ( talk) 15:57, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article include a section on the electoral vote certification by congress to which no senator signed by Maxine Waters?
I believe statements like these to be rather inaccurate. The election was decided by the millions of votes cast around the country. If Al Gore had done better in other states, he would have been elected. It is akin to saying that a basketball game was won by a two-point buzzer beater. If Team A had to score all the points that it did throughout the game, otherwise Team B would have won. -- Mego2005 15:02, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
We all know that Al Gore lost Florida. He lost the recount and the winner was George W. Bush. George W. Bush won. END OF STORY.
Thats clearly an opinion. NYKenny 02:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I added some stuff to correct situations were less important issues were emphasized. Would a link to the FL Supreme Court order, be appropiate here? -- CorvetteZ51 13:08, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
I just corrected the figures in the 'Close states' section of the 1992 election article, and ended up with over 30 "close" states. I chose to restrict the definition of "close" to a 5% span, rather than have over half the states be considered close. This article has nearly half of the states in the 'Close states' column. I personally think that it should be changed from a 10% to a 5% span, as anything over 5% isn't particularly close in American politics. Thoughts? - Subsurd 00:58, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Maybe I didnt read to accurate, but my 'find' function also couldnt find what the voter turnout was. Anybody know? The Minist e r of War (Peace) 11:39, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
There is a part of "Disputes" section that reads: "On the surface, Bush appeared sincere about reaching across party lines and bridge a divided America, stating that "the President of the United States is the President of every single American, of every race and every background." However, his actions in the following months, before September 11, 2001, and after, would call this sincerity into question." --- This is a statement of opinion and not fact (unless you can cite "his actions" that lead you to prove that he was insincere) Jimspilman 17:51, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Why no mention of the widely-held belief that this election was quite simply stolen, and no links to any articles covering the issue of the malfunctioning voting machines, Diebold's promise to deliver the election for Bush etc.?
Without a prominent and substantial mention of these issues, this article is flat-out BS. 68.183.79.214 19:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.
When it comes to Wikipedia, that caption, my friend, is the real truth -- Stillhere 13:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
And my swan-song: (In my opinion) Bush won 5-4, and that that should lead the story. That is referenced in the article, so according to the way wikipedia works, I don't need to do any more research on it, but if I were to put that at the top of the article, someone would just rearrange it back to say that Bush won the election and not the Supreme Court decision, so it's pointless. Thus my original issue.
No, the 2000 election wasn't stolen. The fact remains that Bush won by 537 votes and the mandatory recount proved that George W. Bush won Florida and the Supreme Court ruling ended all the bickering between Bush and Gore. George W. Bush won the 2000 election and Al Gore knew it. Florida went for Bush and his victory by 537 votes- as close as that was, is still a win for George W. Bush and 2004, George W. Bush clearly won the election. Bush didn't steal the election. Bush won by 537 votes. END OF STORY.
END OF STORY? Capitalization doesn't make your point more/less valid. I think that's the end of your opinion, or at least ability to grasp other people's views. My version: The Court stopped the recount. It did not let it go on until everyone was satisfied. My side believes, therefore, that the five conservatives on the court ruled in favor of stopping the recount at a point when Bush was ahead, and that an enormous amount of evidence shows that had the recount been allowed to continue, Gore would have prevailed. Can I prove my opinion? No. Can you prove yours? Probably not. Anything we site will be deemed unsatisfactory by the other due to bias, thus the original conflict. Therefore, why do we have a section on this topic that is far less than satisfactory to those who share my viewpoint? Because wikipedia is largely ridiculous when it comes to controversial topics.
Just a couple of comments: There is inconsistency among the candidates listed from the parties; some have there degrees (JD, Phd) listed after their names, while others do not. Either everyone should be identified with their degres, or no one should (e.g., Elizabeth Dole is also a lawyer and thus should have a JD after her name).
Secondly, under the Democrat section there is a statement "...only two entered the contest..." However, four candidates are listed above. That statement should be clarified to be more consistent with the list that proceeds it. -- Mego2005 18:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Someone took the nominations section out completely and I put it back in EricL
I didn't really notice untill I went to edit a change... but holy-moley this article is huge. Compared to the other presidential election pages, it's roughly twice as big. And really... this page is almost entirely about Florida. It seems like the 2000 Florida electoral vote should have its own article. However, this article has been so dominated by that one issue -- without Florida, it's roughly a 5 paragraph article. Does anyone else think pulling Florida into its own article is a good idea? Questionc 01:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
This isn't irony:
"However, the great irony in the election in Florida was that the automatic recount required by state law (perhaps the only undisputed aspect of the election) was never carried out in several counties."
So it needs to be rephrased. I would change now, but I'm busy.
-Bredd13 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.203.3.226 ( talk • contribs) 01:08, October 14, 2006 (UTC)
I am forced to wonder why Ross Perot is listed in the "results" field even though he only received 9 write-in votes. -- tomf688 ( talk - email) 03:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Removed opening paragraph in Nominations. It is off-topic and biased since
(1) It made a general subjective statement about the Republican Party as a whole, and (2) It contained an implication that it would be erroneous to think that the American people were "sick" of a Democrat Administration since during Clinton's Administration there was a budget surplus.
67.185.99.246 21:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Changed the opening paragraph. The initial statement about GWB having "won" the 25 electoral votes sounds GOP-biased and the follow up in parentheses about how by other standards he wouldn't have sounds like a Dem-biased reply.
Rather, GWB was effectively awarded the 25 electoral votes by virtue of halting the recount. However, according to an independent study reported by USA Today on Feb. 26th, 2001 in which "USA Today, The Miami Herald and Knight Ridder hired the national accounting firm BDO Seidman to examine all 60,000 undervotes in Florida's 67 counties," Gore would have had a "net gain of 49 votes if the most lenient standard -- counting even faintly dimpled chads had been used."
67.185.99.246 22:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
The most recent edit provides information on uncounted absentee ballots. I believe that this information should be either sourced or removed. In the United States, absentee ballots are counted unless they are individually challenged for some type of irregularity. The impact of absentee ballots on the outcome is not a factor in whether they are counted or not. Chronicler3 14:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
There was discussion of splitting Florida content off a couple months ago, and no objection to doing this. I freely admit that the continuity of both articles will probably suffer for a short time; however, lacking objections to this split, it's my belief that this will ultimately improve both articles, much as in the case of splitting Hurricane Katrina and Effect of Hurricane Katrina on New Orleans, where the latter article allows more careful focus than the parent article could easily support. I'm not wedded to the article name United States presidential election, 2000 Florida results; please move it if you want. Skybunny 00:30, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I really think we should have a map like the 92 and 96 election, which looks better than this one and 04. 81.154.20.166 17:14, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I recall at the time that there was some discussion as to 'what if' the election could not be resolved by the Supreme Court in time & the Presidential line of succession. Does anyone have any sources re that discussion?-- ScMeGr 01:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
OK, so Gore got 0.5% more votes than Bush. Now we assume a 1% voting error rate. Gore still had more people vote for him, unless somehow 75% of disqualified votes were from Bush voters. I removed the sentence saying that you can't claim he won the popular vote. Blah42 09:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
The article states that some credited Bush's victory in South Carolina to the fact that only registered Republicans could vote, thus negatings McCain's appeal among independents. South Carolina is an open primary state. Wikipedia's own stub titled "open primary" lists South Carolina as such. That sentence needs to be taken out, but I'll leave it to someone more familiar with that section, as it will require rewording of other parts of the paragraph. ClickClack27 18:52, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
On the descrption for the map image, the word "Blue" is red, and "Red" is green. What are the correct colors? This is very confusing. Thanks!!-- CJ King 20:43, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Better? — BQZip01 — talk 06:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Edited the part about Bush being defeated by Gore. I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. Perhaps this page should be protected. Ryratt 17:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Bitter... definitely. Heck, I just edited the first Supreme Court vote back to it's factual 7-2 count (the minions always change it to 5-4) just to keep the facts accurate. I have done this several dozen times... they just don't quit... Jkwikiwiki ( talk) 02:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed that on the map blue=reps and red=dems, while in the "close states" list it is the other way around. This is confusing. Shouldn't the colors be consistent? Wrad 23:35, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
COLORS
Why are the colors reversed? Somebody please change this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.99.146.57 ( talk • contribs).
Personally, I'd be all for using red for dems and blue for the GOP, simply in order to emphasize that the parties do not have official colors in the way that European parties do. The fact that the National Atlas colors them that way consistently is also a consideration. john k 06:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
One paragraph, two items. "The vote was certified by Katherine Harris, the Florida Secretary of State and a Republican who had publicly supported Bush during the campaign. Additionally, Bush's younger brother, Jeb Bush, was the governor of Florida and this led to rumors that he had somehow "fixed" the election results to favor his brother." Can someone tell me... - How KatHar's political leanings and background became a relevant part of the 2000 Pres. election? I can see how her certification of the vote is relevant, but the fact that she is a Republican doesn't seem to fit into this context for any reason other than to suggest she acted in error. - How is a rumor about Jeb relevant info? Would anyone expect to see this line in a "real" encyclopedia?
We have differences about the phrase I cut/you kept with reference to Kat and Jeb in the Florida section. I'd love to discuss it. Nosferatublue 13:44, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
The words you cut were: "the Florida Secretary of State and a Republican who had publicly supported Bush during the campaign. Additionally, Bush's younger brother, Jeb Bush, was the governor of Florida and this led to rumors that he had somehow "fixed" the election results to favor his brother." This seems pretty straightforward to me. Harris was Florida's Sect'y of State. There were rumors that Jeb Bush used his influence on his brother's behalf in Florida. Griot 15:34, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
You're missing the point. First, you are incorrect as to the substance of my edit; I left the part about Harris' position, but removed the part suggesting her political leanings. You have yet to make any claim as to the relevancy of those leanings. Also, you are right that there were rumors about Jeb Bush fixing the elections. Are you suggesting that an unsubstantiated rumor with no citation has any place in this article? There are regularly half-baked rumors of all sort regarding almost every election. Nosferatublue 15:50, 28 June 2007 (UTC) Nosferatublue 03:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Okay, now we're getting somewhere. You suppose that Katherine Harris's leanings are relevant for two reasons; first, because they influence how she views the matter, and also, because they influenced her actions. The former is not proper content for this page as Katherine Harris' view of the election is not really relevant to the 2000 elections. Several million people voted, but we are not listing their POV's as it would be inpractical. The latter point gets more to the crux of the issue; you feel that her political opinions are relevant information because you believe they influenced her performance of her duties. Unfortunately, unless you can get Katherine Harris on record as stating that she would have acted differently if she were not a Bush supporter, this is pure speculation. Only Katherine Harris can authoritatively state what thoughts motivated her actions. Your statement that her course of action was a result of her political leanings is unverifiable and clearly your POV (although, I will grant, one shared by many people). Unfortunately, you insist on continuing to insert the phrase about "rumors" of Jeb Bush helping to fix the election results while failing to provide any source for this or any support for these rumors. I can create a rumor that the Flying Spaghetti Monster fixed the election, but until we can offer some sort of supporting evidence, that rumor will have no place in this article. Nosferatublue 18:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, your citation quotes a "progrom" enacted by "Jeb Bush's operatives", then goes on to assume the results of votes not actually cast. This, and your statement is still at base an assumption of the motivations of Harris and Bush. You yourself continue to identify this statement as rumor; I'll ask again: is this page an appropriate place for "rumors" about the election? Nosferatublue 19:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Rob Shepard 11:48, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I am the person who wrote the sentences of the "Florida" section that appeared to have caused some controversy. Far from trying to be biased, I tried to be as neutral as possible in describing the situation in Florida. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the allegations that Katherine Harris and/or Jeb Bush somehow "stole" the election in Florida for Bush (I am personally skeptical of such claims), to omit the fact that there were (and have been to this day) persistent claims of vote fraud would be to create bias in the article (by only mentioning that the election was officially certified, without hinting at the controversy). Please note that at no point did I assert that the election in Florida actually was stolen, only that such allegations were made, which is correct. As for the argument that the article should mention in greater detail the charges of vote fraud, I did not do so because there is a separate wikipedia article on the 2000 election in Florida, and it goes into the controversies in detail. In my opinion the article, as it is currently written, is about the most "neutral" account you will have of this much-disputed and discussed election.
Populism 7:48 11 July 2007
Just something I caught, it states in this section: Gore balanced Bush by sweeping the Northeastern United States (with the sole exception of New Hampshire), the industrialized Upper Midwest, and the Pacific Coast states, including California. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't every state "industrialized" to a greater/lesser extent? It seems kind of redundant. Secondly, given that Gore did not win Indiana, which is commonly considered a part of the "Upper Midwest," this statement implies that Indiana is not industrialized. In my opinion, "industrialized" should be omitted, as it's either redundant or not factual. GregTheVirus 22:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
The supreme court decision was 5-4 in favor of Bush, not 7-2. Rcool101 9:39 10 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand this.
I have to voice my concern that this format is hurting the article. I will post this on a few notable election pages and hope that it's noticed. I have to admire the determination of whoever came up with this idea (it's apparently on every page) but ultimately, I think it should go. I think that having "winner/runner-up" displayed so prominently in the infobox overshadows the importance of the election. Some of these elections were not mere contests, but were epic events in American history where a variety of important viewpoints were symbolically represented and voted upon. Just in the last 50 years, the notable political climates of 1968 and 2004 came to a boiling point around election time. We should not be placing so much emphasis on the "winner" and the "runner-up" -- this is not a spelling bee. If we condense this into who "won" we are doing a disservice to the issues that drove these elections. SpiderMMB 23:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I hate to ask, but why does it say "gained" in the lead paragraph? Is there a reason it doesn't say "won?" ThreeE 20:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Just before the table of results with different counting methods, there's this line: Again, Bush received more votes than Gore. This is not what the table shows -- it shows that depending on the method, the results differ. This difference is also what the NORC results show-- please refer to table 11 in the articles link on the NORC page (linked from this section of the main article [1](this is a huge .pdf file). Why do you think the change to say that differing methods produce different results was wrong? Merrily 00:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Regarding "It was the third time in American history that a candidate won the vote in the Electoral College without receiving a plurality of the popular vote; it also happened in the elections of 1876 and 1888. Coincidentally, it was always the Republican candidate that ultimately gained the Presidency."
The problem with the coincidence is that it is non-notable. For that matter, the fact that the republican party of the late 19th century bears virtually no similarity to the party of today further renders it lacking in any probative value. I've removed the line. Absent some reliable source indicating a basis for notability, I see no reason for it to be restored. Anastrophe 22:42, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
The percentages in the infobox for this article are rounded to 2 decimal places, while every other one is rounded to 1 decimal place.
The percentages are: 47.87% & 48.38%
which rounded are: 47.9% & 48.4%
I made the change, but
User:Anastrophe. reverted it. How is this inconsistency a) beneficial, and b) controversial? Either this should be rounded to 1 decimal place, or all of the other articles should be rounded to 2 decimal places in the infobox. Either I am missing some previous argument and this was previously decided, or something is fishy. I would appreciate input here, especially from
User:Anastrophe.. Regards.--
Old Hoss
17:32, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
(I did not state, nor mean to imply, you claimed this to be the most controversial. An extreme was used in making my point.) Alright, if this is the trend, then why is the more recent 2004 election only 1 place? Regardless, these are percentages of the popular vote, so if you have the results from the election (which are listed on the articles), the math can be done. And yes, the articles I went through were all of the other 55 American presidential elections on WP. With that being said, for consistency's sake, if one out of 55 is 2 places, then it is more feasible to change the one, and only a minute aspect of accuracy is lost. For consistency's sake, then, I propose to you (you in general, not necessarily in a personal manner) that either the other 54 infoboxes should be changed, or this one. Regards.-- Old Hoss 18:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
What's with the super young and somewhat anemic picture of Al Gore? That's not what he looked like in 2000, and it's *certainly* not what he looks like now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.0.41 ( talk) 15:51, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Could 72.140.17.5 of Toronto, Canada explain, how the Florida state County Clerk's office could find who actually won the state?
Can anyone substantiate this claim? The results listed in the article certainly don't lead to that conclusion.
We should establish a completely independent election commission like that of India with the subsequent campaign laws to include that of finance reform . it would be apolitical and would establish the standards for everything involving elections, To include common ballots and voting procedures, such as no bloc voting etc. You would actually have to read the ballot first and vote person by person, issue by issue.-- Tomtom 20:51, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
But the consortium, looking at a broader group of rejected ballots than those covered in the court decisions, 175,010 in all, found that Mr. Gore might have won if the courts had ordered a full statewide recount of all the rejected ballots. This also assumes that county canvassing boards would have reached the same conclusions about the disputed ballots that the consortium's independent observers did. The findings indicate that Mr. Gore might have eked out a victory if he had pursued in court a course like the one he publicly advocated when he called on the state to count all the votes.
This says "might" not would. The results of the first consortium recount didn't mention a possibility of a Gore win. -- Paul 01:11, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
In the "Minor Party Candidates" section, I recommend the "many Gore supporters blamed Nader" sentence be followed by some mention of Nader's rebuttal of this claim. (i.e. that 8 million or so Democrats nationwide (250,000 in Florida) voted for Bush, that exit polling by the Democratic Party indicated that the majority of Nader voters were not Democrats, etc.)
There should also be some mention of the controversy over Justices Scalia and Thomas. Some claim they acted improperly by failing to recuse themselves, since Thomas's wife and one or more of Scalia's sons worked with the Bush campaign.
After six years of arguing and bickering about the 2000 election, it is crystal clear that George W. Bush won Florida by more than 500 votes. The recount proved that Bush won. All this bickering about Bush stealing the 2000 election is a whole sham. Bush won and it's time to get over it!!
Bush did not win, I don't know where you get your sources, but if this is the free encyclopedia, then we need and encyclopedia run by non republicans, because that is what you probably are, just another republican who gives opinions without even bothering to check the sources. the 500 votes you are speaking about arrived by mail with dates marked after the elections took place, many of them in December. If you knew the law you would realize you cannot vote after the elections. furthermore, anyone that speaks for bush in the Florida election case, is a racist, because governor bush and the Florida state, together with the federal supreme court, violated the voting rights of hundreds of thousands of black people from who 94% would vote democratic. This should be called the red neck encyclopedia.
How do you know that it would have been 94%? Do you even have any reputable sources for these claims?
"not" within their rights under state law in Florida? Is there actually a law banning a vote recount in Florida? That would be jurisprudentially counter-intuitive, to say the least, and I am loath to give an inch to the notion that anyone would let such a dangerous law pass. That can't be right. Regardless of anything else, it is well within their natural rights. Kevin Baas | talk 22:08, 2004 Aug 11 (UTC)
The author has it absolutely 100% completely ass backwards. The section he cites as though it supported him gives the procedures for requesting a recount at the county level, of a minimum of 3 precincts to be chosen by the requestor. < http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0102/SEC166.HTM&Title=->2000->Ch0102->Section%20166#0102.166> The fact that the author did not put a link to the statutes cited in the text leads me to believe that he or she was operating from secondary sources, and not firsthand knowledge. Searching these statutes shows no description of a right to a statewide recount, nor a mandated procedure to request one, which would probably explain why, when Gore did suggest to Bush that they agree to do a single carefulstatewide recount, Bush was able to reject the suggestion, twice, leaving Gore with no legal recourse other than recounts by county:
Gore could, of course, have asked for a countywide recount individually in every single county, which in retrospect would have been the proper strategy, but did not, presumably because the 'Gore is stealing the election' spin which was put on any requests to actually manually count the ballots made any such request politically expensive. So, who's going to correct this? Gzuckier 17:17, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Gore has the 'right' to request pretty much anything he wants, from a free slice of apple pie to a condo on Io, but he didn't have a stutory right to get a statewide recount (now I'm sounding like markalexander), the way the statutes gave him the right to get a county recount on request, supported with some evidence, whether or not Bush agreed. But the law doesn't specifically bar a statewide recount either; I suppose the idea was that if both candidates agreed, then it could get tossed to the courts, and if they didn't see a problem a recounting we would go. Bush of course thinks 'you got nothing to lose, I got everything to lose, I'm not that dumb, contrary to popular opinion' and says no way. Gzuckier 20:16, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I made an edit to this awhile back and it was changed back to this. I found this same arugment (about only being legal in the case of a mechanical error) in conservative webpages. I think this really breaches neutrality. A "liberal" interpretation of the recount law should be added, or the conservative one deleted. If it's too controversial let's just leave it out, but the rendition is deceptive.
The paragraph starting with
seems to be somewhat erroneous in some places. For instance, I'm not sure the statement above is correct. Does anyone have supporting evidence and/or want to verify/edit the paragraph? Gzuckier 14:57, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
There is a lot of information on the topic of the Florida Central Voting file's role in the 2000 election. perhaps it deserves an article/its own subpage. What does the community think? (If yes, please suggest a title.) My title suggestion: " Florida Central Voting File" Kevin Baas | talk 20:42, 2004 Aug 19 (UTC)
If I recieve no feedback within the next 48 hours, I will consider this to be tacit acceptance, and create the page. Kevin Baas | talk 16:41, 2004 Aug 21 (UTC)
The page has been created: Florida Central Voting File.
Does anybody have any idea what this part of the sentence means?
? Gzuckier 14:09, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The following looks like a good source of info, but i wasn't able to locate an online source: http://www.nald.ca/PROVINCE/ONT/PLAIN/index.htm Greg Ioannou, Did a Butterfly Elect George Bush? The implications of design on voter literacy -- Espoo 08:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
There are conflicting statements in the article:
Al Gore publicly conceded the election after the Supreme Court, in the case Bush v. Gore, voted 7-2 (not 5-4 as often reported) to declare the recount procedure in process unconstitutional because it was not being carried out statewide.
...
This case eventually reached the United States Supreme Court, which ruled 5-4 to stop the vote count, which allowed Katherine Harris to certify the election results.
-- Myria 06:47, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Seven justices agreed that the recount being carried out was not constitutional (although Breyer and Souter only did so with reservations, as I recall from their opinion - the general interpretation is that they were trying to come up with a compromise that they could get Kennedy to sign on to, rather than that they really thought that the recounts violated equal protection). But only Breyer and Souter also said that it should be bounced back to Florida to determine a uniform standard so that recounts could proceed. So the key decision, that there could be no more recounts, was, indeed, a 5-4 decision. Also, it had nothing to do with being carried out statewide - the recount was being carried out statewide, just with different standards in each county. john k 05:50, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Okay, thanks honey. =^_^= I posted here because I don't know anything about the election and didn't want to edit something I don't know about. I guess the article needs to be clarified somehow but I wouldn't be one to do that, unfortunately =/
Myria 06:47, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
What happened to the butterfly ballot photo? It was part of the controversy and should not be deleted.
Why did someone change the map on this page? The one that is currently there is inconsistent with the maps for all other presidential elections. Yes, I know that on the old image Democratic states are red and Republican blue; however, if you go back and look, that is the coloring scheme used for all of the maps. In my opinion, the new image looks tacky and unprofessional. Quandary us 08:38, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I agree. Most coloring schemes the news agencies use have Republican as red and Democrats blue. Jwinters 1800, 2 Nov 2004 (PST)
Why does the map say that DC has only 2 electoral votes? It has 3. moonwatcher 21:05, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
The first thing that is not clear in my humble opinion: The Bush campaign sued to prevent additional recounts on the basis that no errors were found in the tabulation method until subjective measures were applied in manual recounts. What is exactly meant by subjective measures? Is it meant that the vote counters started looking at invalid ballots and looked if there were half punched in them? Is it meant that it is subjective whether a half punched hole is a vote for a candidate or a non-valid vote?
The second thing that is not clear in my humble opinion: Seven of the nine Justices agreed that the lack of unified standards in counting votes violated the Constitutional guarantee of equal protection, Why does the lack of unified standards violate the constitional guarantee of equal protection? Are there counting standards that would favor Al Gore? Protecting him more than George W. Bush? Or is this about the protection of voters in certain districts? Are some counting standards making more sure that the count is accurate and protecting voters in certain districts more? Paulus/laudaka (add me to your YIM/AIM/ICQ/M$N M contact list if you like!) Laudaka's talk page 20:02, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
votes in non-affirmative-action cases regarding the Equal Protection Clause. In those 46 votes, they voted in favor of Equal Protection a grand total of..... twice. (In contrast, their judicial colleagues in those cases voted in favor of Equal Protection 74% of the time.) Think of it; in this one single case, the three justices voted in favor of Equal Protection more often than they had in all non-affirmative-action cases in the previous decade. Could it be that actually there was something about this case other than Equal Protection that determined their 'not to be used as a precedent' ruling? Gzuckier 16:57, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The seven justices agreement bit is pretty dubious. It is pretty clear that Breyer and Souter did not believe this argument - they were making it as a way to try to tempt Kennedy into voting for a renewed count with a universal standard. In their own opinions, if one actually reads them, they essentially say only that it might be considered an equal protection violation, but the main thrust of their dissents is "even if it does, the proper remedy is to have a new count with a uniform standard, not to not have any counting at all." The weak adherence to the equal protection argument is pretty clearly for Kennedy's benefit. The supposed violation of equal protection, by the way, had nothing to do with blacks and whites - it had to do with different counties having different counting standards. john k 16:43, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
If I recall, there were a million absentee votes in California. Al Gore won California by more than a million votes; therefore, there was no reason to count these, as, of course, as we all know, the national popular vote is utterly irrelevant.
However, this introduces a problem. Absentee votes typically lean more Republican than Democrat. It is entirely possible that the uncounted absentee votes in California, and other states, could very well have put George W. Bush over the top. Therefore, harping on "Gore won the popular vote" is possibly not factual - there's simply no way to know, since the popular vote is irrelevant.
Does anyone else think this is worthy of addition to the article? I'd have to find a source though. -- Golbez 03:40, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)
It is untrue that absentee ballots in California were not counted - this was something Republicans said at the time to make it seem as though Gore had not won the popular vote. In fact, every vote in California, and every other state, was counted, whether or not it made a difference in the final outcome in that state - recall also that president was not the only race on the ballot that year. john k 16:39, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Somebody wrote above that New York State does not count all absentee ballots unless necessary. But I looked at the NYS election law [2] and from what I can tell, it provides that all absentee ballots are to be counted. See Article 9, Title I, § 9-104(3)(c), which says:
In my view it would be remarkable if a jurisdiction's election law provided that you don't have to count all the ballots. Keep in mind that selecting a winner is just one of the purposes of elections in a democracy. Another purpose is to allow voters to express their view and have it counted. Any voter has the right to vote for some candidate far out of the mainstream and have that vote counted in the final tally. I have a hard time believing that in the U.S. there are any elections to state or federal office that don't require all the votes to be counted. -- Mathew5000 18:59, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
This is my first time in a discussion, so if I am doing anything wrong, please inform me. However, someone put that this was the third time in history that a president won a majority of electoral votes, but not as many popular votes. I don't think that is true, for instance the 1978 election. Can anyone else make some sense of this?
Is it just me or do the old maps have inverted colors vs. the 2004 red blue setup?? Confusing for users, no?
The NORC recount is not a 'less comprehensive study' than the University of Chicago recount, it IS the University of Chicago recount, which explains why the url is www.norc.uchicago.edu. The intent to include NPOV should not lead to mangling the basic inescapable facts to include the point of view of the ignorant. That's all I have to say about that. Gzuckier 16:38, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This information should be in the article: [3] Kevin Baas talk 21:11, 2005 Jan 5 (UTC)
I just made a quick anon change to fix a misspelling (dispite to despite) in a paragraph about Catherine Harris about 3/4 of the way down. I forgot to include an editing comment to let people know what change I made. Sorry.
Although the NORC study was not primarily intended as a determination of which candidate "really won", analysis of the results, given the hand counting of machine-uncountable ballots due to various types of voter error indicated that they would lead to differing results, reported in the newspapers which funded the recount, such as The Miami Herald (The Miami Herald Report: Democracy Held Hostage) or the Washington Post [6] ( http://www.aei.org/docLib/20040526_KeatingPaper.pdf).
esp.: ", analysis of the ..., given the ... due to ... types of ... indicated that they would lead to ..., reported in the .. which funded the ..., such as the ..." I'm sorry, you lost me. Kevin Baas talk: new 18:13, 2005 May 16 (UTC)
Why are the Republicans blue and the Democrats red in that image? It goes against current practice. 24.54.208.177 01:03, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Bush wasa born in Connecticut. According to his tax returns, his official residence is Illinois. Neither one is Texas. Kuralyov 22:38, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Bush was birn in Connecticut. SO WHAT? Al Gore was born in Washington, D.C. but I don't have yet to see someone change his home state from Tennessee to the District of Columbia. I thought it was pretty obvious that "Home State" means the state where the individual's home (primary residence) is. Also important is the state the individual was elected from. In both cases, for Bush this would be Texas.-- SpudHawg948 ( talk) 12:47, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Special:Contributions/User:68.7.179.38 made a change to the text about the recount process. He deleted some of the material and replaced it with a quote of F.S. Ch. 102.166 2c:
Upon receipt of a proper and timely request, the Elections Canvassing Commission or county canvassing board shall immediately order a manual recount of overvotes and undervotes in all affected jurisdictions.
I have checked the Florida Senate's site and verified that the Florida Statutes read this way now. However, this whole section has been massively revised since the 2000 election (as witnessed by the many references to July 1, 2002 for hardware and software certification), and I do not believe that this verbiage obtained in 2000. Therefore, I have reverted the edit until this section can be verified to have existed in the 2000 Florida Statutes.
— DLJessup 22:55, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Therefore, this line is incorrect: "an unexpectedly large number of votes for third-party candidate Patrick Buchanan, although he received roughly the same amount of votes there as he had received in the 1996 election"
Perhaps the writer meant that *the Reform Party* received roughly the same amount of votes there as it had received, with Ross Perot as its standard-bearer, in the 1996 election? If so, this is perhaps worth noting in passing, but it really doesn't prove anything at all, considering the vast differences in philosophy and political affiliation between Ross Perot and Pat Buchanan, and the fact that Perot's support nationwide was much stronger than Buchanan's.
I noticed that anonymous User:58.104.17.164 added the tag "citation needed" to the front of this article. It is unclear what this is supposed to apply to. I'm going to make a guess that he or she is referring to User:156.110.25.59's recent change of Bush's margin of victory from "several hundred" votes in Florida to "527" votes. If this is the case, I would refer User:58.104.17.164 to the table in "Florida election results" which is sourced to CBS News State Results for Election 2000. If not, I ask that he tell us what he is referring to here in the talk page. In any case, I will remove the "citation needed" tag.
— DLJessup ( talk) 12:50, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
"The vote was certified by Katherine Harris, the Florida Secretary of State and a Republican who had publicly supported Bush during the campaign. Additionally, Bush's younger brother, Jeb Bush, was the governor of Florida and this led to rumors that he had somehow "fixed" the election results to favor his brother." Hokay - Although much was made of Kat's political stance, it should not be included here. There is no pattern of attaching political leanings to an individual if that person is not running for office; this is a mild hint at an existent/nonexistent conspiracy. This belongs in her bio page. Next, the Jeb item, in addition to running along the same lines, isn't at all relevant to the paragraph. It's going.
According to the "U.S. Presidential Election, 2000" article:
This election was only the fourth time in United States history that a candidate had won the Presidency while losing the nationwide popular vote. (The other three times were the elections of 1824, 1876, and 1888.)
The above statement is incorrect, and is inconsistent with Wikipedia's U.S. presidential election, 1960 article. John Kennedy was also a minority president.
The statement was ambiguous. It used the word "won" but not "majority" or "plurality," the meat of the 2000 election. Many presidents have won without a majority, including Lincoln (the first time) and Clinton (both times) but they won a plurality in a first-past-the-post system and the electoral college. In 2000, then governor Bush won the former but not the latter, the key distinction. Probably best not to mention Jefferson or John Q. Adams and their election by the house.
Also--just realized my own edit's error of not mentioning electoral college. Will fix now. Levelistchampion 03:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm assuming that "home state" in the voting table refers to a candidate's state of legal residence, not where he was born (otherwise Bush's home state would be Connecticut). Anyway, Nader is listed as being from Connecticut here (where he was born), but according to the Ralph Nader page, "Nader inhabits a modest apartment in Washington DC". Should the table be changed to say that he's from DC or does he have legal Connecticut residence for some reason? Or is the Nader page inaccurate? (I have heard elsewhere that he lives in DC full time, so I'm betting the Nader page has it right.) -- Jfruh 14:50, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
It's not a POV to call it an "unprecedented" court decision. Never in America's history did the federal court system ever overrule a state's certification (either process or completed) and for this reason alone it needs to be mentioned as to why Bush won FL. It was an UNPRECEDENTED election because Bush won the state *only* from the judgements in the supreme court which forced to hault the tallying of the uncounted ballots. Sorry if that seems bias to you. It's just Reality!!!!-- Lamrock 06:51, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
As an Illinois republican who was around back in 1960, I can say that I wholely believe that Mayor Daley the Elder loaded up the ballot boxes across Chicago to put Illinois in the Democratic column in 1960. Nonetheless, I reverted the subtle reference to this because, as thin as the margin was, I have yet to see an analysis that makes a conclusive case that it is more likely than not that Nixon carried the national popular vote. Sure, 0.1% is a thin margin. But that 0.1% is a lot of votes, and probably a lot more than Daley added to the box. After all, Chicago was (and is) a Democratic town, Chicago was (and is) a Catholic city, and Chicago had (and has) one heck of a lot of Irish. It doesn't look like Daley is the reason that JFK carried the state so heavily. My own father caused a riff in our home when he voted Irish Catholic instead of Republican (for the only time in his life). He wasn't the only one to do so. Unschool 05:29, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
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ignored (
help)Can anyone explain to me why the colors changed? Why the switch and how did it happen?
There appears to be no discussion for the images on the article, so the answer may have been answered, but is not now. 134.250.72.141
The following text appears as the first paragraph of the "Results" subsection:
Vice President Al Gore came in second in the electoral vote even though he received a larger number of popular votes (Gore won 500,000 more popular votes than Bush) and this contributed to the controversy of the election. This was the fourth time that a candidate who did not receive a plurality of the popular vote received a majority of the Electoral College vote, the first time being in the 1824 elections, although popular vote records do not exist for earlier elections and in 1824 many states did not have a Presidential popular vote (in those states, electors were still chosen by the state legislature). Until this election, the 1888 election had been the most recent presidential election in which the winners of the popular and electoral vote differed. It should be pointed out that if the American system were based on the popular vote, rather than the Electoral College, then the focus and methods of campaigning would be different. Because of this, the validity of using popular-vote totals under the present system to predict who would have won an actual popular vote election is questionable.
I am going to cut out the claim that this is the fourth time that a candidate who did not receive a plurality of the PV received a majority of the EV. First of all, this repeats a claim made in the introduction, and it seems redundant to repeat it here. Secondly, it would seem to apply for the universe of all U.S. presidential elections and that's not true: for elections prior to 1824, this is a problematic claim because most states had their legislatures choose the electors. Even in the 1824 election, a quarter of the states used legislative choice for selecting the electors. When there was a popular vote, the vote was usually restricted to property-holders.
I am also going to cut out the "It should be pointed out…" statement about the fact that different candidates may have won the PV if it were a direct election. This is either a defense of Bush or a defense of the Electoral College, and it doesn't seem appropriate here.
— DLJessup ( talk) 15:57, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article include a section on the electoral vote certification by congress to which no senator signed by Maxine Waters?
I believe statements like these to be rather inaccurate. The election was decided by the millions of votes cast around the country. If Al Gore had done better in other states, he would have been elected. It is akin to saying that a basketball game was won by a two-point buzzer beater. If Team A had to score all the points that it did throughout the game, otherwise Team B would have won. -- Mego2005 15:02, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
We all know that Al Gore lost Florida. He lost the recount and the winner was George W. Bush. George W. Bush won. END OF STORY.
Thats clearly an opinion. NYKenny 02:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I added some stuff to correct situations were less important issues were emphasized. Would a link to the FL Supreme Court order, be appropiate here? -- CorvetteZ51 13:08, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
I just corrected the figures in the 'Close states' section of the 1992 election article, and ended up with over 30 "close" states. I chose to restrict the definition of "close" to a 5% span, rather than have over half the states be considered close. This article has nearly half of the states in the 'Close states' column. I personally think that it should be changed from a 10% to a 5% span, as anything over 5% isn't particularly close in American politics. Thoughts? - Subsurd 00:58, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Maybe I didnt read to accurate, but my 'find' function also couldnt find what the voter turnout was. Anybody know? The Minist e r of War (Peace) 11:39, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
There is a part of "Disputes" section that reads: "On the surface, Bush appeared sincere about reaching across party lines and bridge a divided America, stating that "the President of the United States is the President of every single American, of every race and every background." However, his actions in the following months, before September 11, 2001, and after, would call this sincerity into question." --- This is a statement of opinion and not fact (unless you can cite "his actions" that lead you to prove that he was insincere) Jimspilman 17:51, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Why no mention of the widely-held belief that this election was quite simply stolen, and no links to any articles covering the issue of the malfunctioning voting machines, Diebold's promise to deliver the election for Bush etc.?
Without a prominent and substantial mention of these issues, this article is flat-out BS. 68.183.79.214 19:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.
When it comes to Wikipedia, that caption, my friend, is the real truth -- Stillhere 13:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
And my swan-song: (In my opinion) Bush won 5-4, and that that should lead the story. That is referenced in the article, so according to the way wikipedia works, I don't need to do any more research on it, but if I were to put that at the top of the article, someone would just rearrange it back to say that Bush won the election and not the Supreme Court decision, so it's pointless. Thus my original issue.
No, the 2000 election wasn't stolen. The fact remains that Bush won by 537 votes and the mandatory recount proved that George W. Bush won Florida and the Supreme Court ruling ended all the bickering between Bush and Gore. George W. Bush won the 2000 election and Al Gore knew it. Florida went for Bush and his victory by 537 votes- as close as that was, is still a win for George W. Bush and 2004, George W. Bush clearly won the election. Bush didn't steal the election. Bush won by 537 votes. END OF STORY.
END OF STORY? Capitalization doesn't make your point more/less valid. I think that's the end of your opinion, or at least ability to grasp other people's views. My version: The Court stopped the recount. It did not let it go on until everyone was satisfied. My side believes, therefore, that the five conservatives on the court ruled in favor of stopping the recount at a point when Bush was ahead, and that an enormous amount of evidence shows that had the recount been allowed to continue, Gore would have prevailed. Can I prove my opinion? No. Can you prove yours? Probably not. Anything we site will be deemed unsatisfactory by the other due to bias, thus the original conflict. Therefore, why do we have a section on this topic that is far less than satisfactory to those who share my viewpoint? Because wikipedia is largely ridiculous when it comes to controversial topics.
Just a couple of comments: There is inconsistency among the candidates listed from the parties; some have there degrees (JD, Phd) listed after their names, while others do not. Either everyone should be identified with their degres, or no one should (e.g., Elizabeth Dole is also a lawyer and thus should have a JD after her name).
Secondly, under the Democrat section there is a statement "...only two entered the contest..." However, four candidates are listed above. That statement should be clarified to be more consistent with the list that proceeds it. -- Mego2005 18:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Someone took the nominations section out completely and I put it back in EricL
I didn't really notice untill I went to edit a change... but holy-moley this article is huge. Compared to the other presidential election pages, it's roughly twice as big. And really... this page is almost entirely about Florida. It seems like the 2000 Florida electoral vote should have its own article. However, this article has been so dominated by that one issue -- without Florida, it's roughly a 5 paragraph article. Does anyone else think pulling Florida into its own article is a good idea? Questionc 01:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
This isn't irony:
"However, the great irony in the election in Florida was that the automatic recount required by state law (perhaps the only undisputed aspect of the election) was never carried out in several counties."
So it needs to be rephrased. I would change now, but I'm busy.
-Bredd13 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.203.3.226 ( talk • contribs) 01:08, October 14, 2006 (UTC)
I am forced to wonder why Ross Perot is listed in the "results" field even though he only received 9 write-in votes. -- tomf688 ( talk - email) 03:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Removed opening paragraph in Nominations. It is off-topic and biased since
(1) It made a general subjective statement about the Republican Party as a whole, and (2) It contained an implication that it would be erroneous to think that the American people were "sick" of a Democrat Administration since during Clinton's Administration there was a budget surplus.
67.185.99.246 21:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Changed the opening paragraph. The initial statement about GWB having "won" the 25 electoral votes sounds GOP-biased and the follow up in parentheses about how by other standards he wouldn't have sounds like a Dem-biased reply.
Rather, GWB was effectively awarded the 25 electoral votes by virtue of halting the recount. However, according to an independent study reported by USA Today on Feb. 26th, 2001 in which "USA Today, The Miami Herald and Knight Ridder hired the national accounting firm BDO Seidman to examine all 60,000 undervotes in Florida's 67 counties," Gore would have had a "net gain of 49 votes if the most lenient standard -- counting even faintly dimpled chads had been used."
67.185.99.246 22:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
The most recent edit provides information on uncounted absentee ballots. I believe that this information should be either sourced or removed. In the United States, absentee ballots are counted unless they are individually challenged for some type of irregularity. The impact of absentee ballots on the outcome is not a factor in whether they are counted or not. Chronicler3 14:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
There was discussion of splitting Florida content off a couple months ago, and no objection to doing this. I freely admit that the continuity of both articles will probably suffer for a short time; however, lacking objections to this split, it's my belief that this will ultimately improve both articles, much as in the case of splitting Hurricane Katrina and Effect of Hurricane Katrina on New Orleans, where the latter article allows more careful focus than the parent article could easily support. I'm not wedded to the article name United States presidential election, 2000 Florida results; please move it if you want. Skybunny 00:30, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I really think we should have a map like the 92 and 96 election, which looks better than this one and 04. 81.154.20.166 17:14, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I recall at the time that there was some discussion as to 'what if' the election could not be resolved by the Supreme Court in time & the Presidential line of succession. Does anyone have any sources re that discussion?-- ScMeGr 01:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
OK, so Gore got 0.5% more votes than Bush. Now we assume a 1% voting error rate. Gore still had more people vote for him, unless somehow 75% of disqualified votes were from Bush voters. I removed the sentence saying that you can't claim he won the popular vote. Blah42 09:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
The article states that some credited Bush's victory in South Carolina to the fact that only registered Republicans could vote, thus negatings McCain's appeal among independents. South Carolina is an open primary state. Wikipedia's own stub titled "open primary" lists South Carolina as such. That sentence needs to be taken out, but I'll leave it to someone more familiar with that section, as it will require rewording of other parts of the paragraph. ClickClack27 18:52, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
On the descrption for the map image, the word "Blue" is red, and "Red" is green. What are the correct colors? This is very confusing. Thanks!!-- CJ King 20:43, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Better? — BQZip01 — talk 06:47, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Edited the part about Bush being defeated by Gore. I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. Perhaps this page should be protected. Ryratt 17:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Bitter... definitely. Heck, I just edited the first Supreme Court vote back to it's factual 7-2 count (the minions always change it to 5-4) just to keep the facts accurate. I have done this several dozen times... they just don't quit... Jkwikiwiki ( talk) 02:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed that on the map blue=reps and red=dems, while in the "close states" list it is the other way around. This is confusing. Shouldn't the colors be consistent? Wrad 23:35, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
COLORS
Why are the colors reversed? Somebody please change this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.99.146.57 ( talk • contribs).
Personally, I'd be all for using red for dems and blue for the GOP, simply in order to emphasize that the parties do not have official colors in the way that European parties do. The fact that the National Atlas colors them that way consistently is also a consideration. john k 06:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
One paragraph, two items. "The vote was certified by Katherine Harris, the Florida Secretary of State and a Republican who had publicly supported Bush during the campaign. Additionally, Bush's younger brother, Jeb Bush, was the governor of Florida and this led to rumors that he had somehow "fixed" the election results to favor his brother." Can someone tell me... - How KatHar's political leanings and background became a relevant part of the 2000 Pres. election? I can see how her certification of the vote is relevant, but the fact that she is a Republican doesn't seem to fit into this context for any reason other than to suggest she acted in error. - How is a rumor about Jeb relevant info? Would anyone expect to see this line in a "real" encyclopedia?
We have differences about the phrase I cut/you kept with reference to Kat and Jeb in the Florida section. I'd love to discuss it. Nosferatublue 13:44, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
The words you cut were: "the Florida Secretary of State and a Republican who had publicly supported Bush during the campaign. Additionally, Bush's younger brother, Jeb Bush, was the governor of Florida and this led to rumors that he had somehow "fixed" the election results to favor his brother." This seems pretty straightforward to me. Harris was Florida's Sect'y of State. There were rumors that Jeb Bush used his influence on his brother's behalf in Florida. Griot 15:34, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
You're missing the point. First, you are incorrect as to the substance of my edit; I left the part about Harris' position, but removed the part suggesting her political leanings. You have yet to make any claim as to the relevancy of those leanings. Also, you are right that there were rumors about Jeb Bush fixing the elections. Are you suggesting that an unsubstantiated rumor with no citation has any place in this article? There are regularly half-baked rumors of all sort regarding almost every election. Nosferatublue 15:50, 28 June 2007 (UTC) Nosferatublue 03:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Okay, now we're getting somewhere. You suppose that Katherine Harris's leanings are relevant for two reasons; first, because they influence how she views the matter, and also, because they influenced her actions. The former is not proper content for this page as Katherine Harris' view of the election is not really relevant to the 2000 elections. Several million people voted, but we are not listing their POV's as it would be inpractical. The latter point gets more to the crux of the issue; you feel that her political opinions are relevant information because you believe they influenced her performance of her duties. Unfortunately, unless you can get Katherine Harris on record as stating that she would have acted differently if she were not a Bush supporter, this is pure speculation. Only Katherine Harris can authoritatively state what thoughts motivated her actions. Your statement that her course of action was a result of her political leanings is unverifiable and clearly your POV (although, I will grant, one shared by many people). Unfortunately, you insist on continuing to insert the phrase about "rumors" of Jeb Bush helping to fix the election results while failing to provide any source for this or any support for these rumors. I can create a rumor that the Flying Spaghetti Monster fixed the election, but until we can offer some sort of supporting evidence, that rumor will have no place in this article. Nosferatublue 18:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, your citation quotes a "progrom" enacted by "Jeb Bush's operatives", then goes on to assume the results of votes not actually cast. This, and your statement is still at base an assumption of the motivations of Harris and Bush. You yourself continue to identify this statement as rumor; I'll ask again: is this page an appropriate place for "rumors" about the election? Nosferatublue 19:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Rob Shepard 11:48, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I am the person who wrote the sentences of the "Florida" section that appeared to have caused some controversy. Far from trying to be biased, I tried to be as neutral as possible in describing the situation in Florida. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the allegations that Katherine Harris and/or Jeb Bush somehow "stole" the election in Florida for Bush (I am personally skeptical of such claims), to omit the fact that there were (and have been to this day) persistent claims of vote fraud would be to create bias in the article (by only mentioning that the election was officially certified, without hinting at the controversy). Please note that at no point did I assert that the election in Florida actually was stolen, only that such allegations were made, which is correct. As for the argument that the article should mention in greater detail the charges of vote fraud, I did not do so because there is a separate wikipedia article on the 2000 election in Florida, and it goes into the controversies in detail. In my opinion the article, as it is currently written, is about the most "neutral" account you will have of this much-disputed and discussed election.
Populism 7:48 11 July 2007
Just something I caught, it states in this section: Gore balanced Bush by sweeping the Northeastern United States (with the sole exception of New Hampshire), the industrialized Upper Midwest, and the Pacific Coast states, including California. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't every state "industrialized" to a greater/lesser extent? It seems kind of redundant. Secondly, given that Gore did not win Indiana, which is commonly considered a part of the "Upper Midwest," this statement implies that Indiana is not industrialized. In my opinion, "industrialized" should be omitted, as it's either redundant or not factual. GregTheVirus 22:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
The supreme court decision was 5-4 in favor of Bush, not 7-2. Rcool101 9:39 10 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand this.
I have to voice my concern that this format is hurting the article. I will post this on a few notable election pages and hope that it's noticed. I have to admire the determination of whoever came up with this idea (it's apparently on every page) but ultimately, I think it should go. I think that having "winner/runner-up" displayed so prominently in the infobox overshadows the importance of the election. Some of these elections were not mere contests, but were epic events in American history where a variety of important viewpoints were symbolically represented and voted upon. Just in the last 50 years, the notable political climates of 1968 and 2004 came to a boiling point around election time. We should not be placing so much emphasis on the "winner" and the "runner-up" -- this is not a spelling bee. If we condense this into who "won" we are doing a disservice to the issues that drove these elections. SpiderMMB 23:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I hate to ask, but why does it say "gained" in the lead paragraph? Is there a reason it doesn't say "won?" ThreeE 20:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Just before the table of results with different counting methods, there's this line: Again, Bush received more votes than Gore. This is not what the table shows -- it shows that depending on the method, the results differ. This difference is also what the NORC results show-- please refer to table 11 in the articles link on the NORC page (linked from this section of the main article [1](this is a huge .pdf file). Why do you think the change to say that differing methods produce different results was wrong? Merrily 00:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Regarding "It was the third time in American history that a candidate won the vote in the Electoral College without receiving a plurality of the popular vote; it also happened in the elections of 1876 and 1888. Coincidentally, it was always the Republican candidate that ultimately gained the Presidency."
The problem with the coincidence is that it is non-notable. For that matter, the fact that the republican party of the late 19th century bears virtually no similarity to the party of today further renders it lacking in any probative value. I've removed the line. Absent some reliable source indicating a basis for notability, I see no reason for it to be restored. Anastrophe 22:42, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
The percentages in the infobox for this article are rounded to 2 decimal places, while every other one is rounded to 1 decimal place.
The percentages are: 47.87% & 48.38%
which rounded are: 47.9% & 48.4%
I made the change, but
User:Anastrophe. reverted it. How is this inconsistency a) beneficial, and b) controversial? Either this should be rounded to 1 decimal place, or all of the other articles should be rounded to 2 decimal places in the infobox. Either I am missing some previous argument and this was previously decided, or something is fishy. I would appreciate input here, especially from
User:Anastrophe.. Regards.--
Old Hoss
17:32, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
(I did not state, nor mean to imply, you claimed this to be the most controversial. An extreme was used in making my point.) Alright, if this is the trend, then why is the more recent 2004 election only 1 place? Regardless, these are percentages of the popular vote, so if you have the results from the election (which are listed on the articles), the math can be done. And yes, the articles I went through were all of the other 55 American presidential elections on WP. With that being said, for consistency's sake, if one out of 55 is 2 places, then it is more feasible to change the one, and only a minute aspect of accuracy is lost. For consistency's sake, then, I propose to you (you in general, not necessarily in a personal manner) that either the other 54 infoboxes should be changed, or this one. Regards.-- Old Hoss 18:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)