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The article over-emphasizes the unsubstantiated "Mirage" theory because it's controversial (industrial espionnage) despite not having any reliable source (besides a TV show named NOVA and a times.com story) and even tries to justify it saying "French and Soviet governments colluded with each other to cover up such details" ... When there is an official investigation report that concludes to a last minute technical modification that allowed flight parameters to be exceeded, combined with improper actions from the crew (wasted time with a camera that fell in the cockpit, extension of canards outside of their operation parameters which broke and punctured a wing and a fuel tank). The conclusions of the investigation are also consistent with the footage from the accident and ocular witnesses.
The Mirage theory relies on the source [5] that says "The full report from a French-Soviet investigation was never disclosed. At the time, there were rumors of a botched espionage attempt by the French, mistakes by the crew, and mechanical failures." However, the report has been disclosed since, and sources that rely on "rumors" are not acceptable sources for wikipedia.
The NOVA source [14] is not much better: "NARRATOR: Jean Forestier's revelation that the Soviet crew was not warned of the Mirage was excluded from the government statement. There is speculation that the French neglected to admit this breach of regulations because the Mirage was on a clandestine mission to photograph the TU-144 in flight. In particular, the French wanted detailed film of the canards, the insect wings behind the cockpit. Flying at a height of approximately 4,000 feet in and out of the clouds, the Mirage tracked the TU-144 through its routine. As the Soviet plane climbed on a trajectory which would cross the Mirage's flight path, the pilot, Koslov, was not aware that the French jet was flying directly above him."
The narrator of the NOVA show saying "there is speculation that the French neglected to admit this breach of regulations ..." is not an acceptable source for wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB04:AB9:DA00:15E6:1D0F:C564:697B ( talk) 20:13, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
Do we want to use File:Le Bourget 1973 en.jpg? Fences& Windows 15:35, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
I vaguely remember that a contemporary account described the Concorde display as being not very exciting, and speculating that the Tu-144 pilot was out to surpass it, but over-did it. I'll look for that...-- Piledhigheranddeeper ( talk) 20:43, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
This page appears to qualify for the above category, but I do not know how to add it. -- 81.23.54.142 ( talk) 22:42, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
The "Accident" section mentions:
"performed its demonstration flight first."
I think 'first demonstration flight' is more accurate. This was not Concorde's first flight. The current wording makes it sound like it had its first ever flight and that that was done under demonstration conditions..
In a PBS Nova show some years ago, the suggestion was made that in response to seeing the Mirage, the Tu-144 pilots might have made a maneuver that caused engine flame-out. That the fix for such flame-out in flight is a steep dive to get enough air though the engines to restart them. I only know this from the Nova show, and don't have any other references, such as where the show producer learned this. If there are references, should this be added to the theories section? Gah4 ( talk) 21:22, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
It seems that one reference is here. Gah4 ( talk) 21:49, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on June 3, 2012, June 3, 2013, June 3, 2020, and June 3, 2023. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
The article over-emphasizes the unsubstantiated "Mirage" theory because it's controversial (industrial espionnage) despite not having any reliable source (besides a TV show named NOVA and a times.com story) and even tries to justify it saying "French and Soviet governments colluded with each other to cover up such details" ... When there is an official investigation report that concludes to a last minute technical modification that allowed flight parameters to be exceeded, combined with improper actions from the crew (wasted time with a camera that fell in the cockpit, extension of canards outside of their operation parameters which broke and punctured a wing and a fuel tank). The conclusions of the investigation are also consistent with the footage from the accident and ocular witnesses.
The Mirage theory relies on the source [5] that says "The full report from a French-Soviet investigation was never disclosed. At the time, there were rumors of a botched espionage attempt by the French, mistakes by the crew, and mechanical failures." However, the report has been disclosed since, and sources that rely on "rumors" are not acceptable sources for wikipedia.
The NOVA source [14] is not much better: "NARRATOR: Jean Forestier's revelation that the Soviet crew was not warned of the Mirage was excluded from the government statement. There is speculation that the French neglected to admit this breach of regulations because the Mirage was on a clandestine mission to photograph the TU-144 in flight. In particular, the French wanted detailed film of the canards, the insect wings behind the cockpit. Flying at a height of approximately 4,000 feet in and out of the clouds, the Mirage tracked the TU-144 through its routine. As the Soviet plane climbed on a trajectory which would cross the Mirage's flight path, the pilot, Koslov, was not aware that the French jet was flying directly above him."
The narrator of the NOVA show saying "there is speculation that the French neglected to admit this breach of regulations ..." is not an acceptable source for wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB04:AB9:DA00:15E6:1D0F:C564:697B ( talk) 20:13, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
Do we want to use File:Le Bourget 1973 en.jpg? Fences& Windows 15:35, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
I vaguely remember that a contemporary account described the Concorde display as being not very exciting, and speculating that the Tu-144 pilot was out to surpass it, but over-did it. I'll look for that...-- Piledhigheranddeeper ( talk) 20:43, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
This page appears to qualify for the above category, but I do not know how to add it. -- 81.23.54.142 ( talk) 22:42, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
The "Accident" section mentions:
"performed its demonstration flight first."
I think 'first demonstration flight' is more accurate. This was not Concorde's first flight. The current wording makes it sound like it had its first ever flight and that that was done under demonstration conditions..
In a PBS Nova show some years ago, the suggestion was made that in response to seeing the Mirage, the Tu-144 pilots might have made a maneuver that caused engine flame-out. That the fix for such flame-out in flight is a steep dive to get enough air though the engines to restart them. I only know this from the Nova show, and don't have any other references, such as where the show producer learned this. If there are references, should this be added to the theories section? Gah4 ( talk) 21:22, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
It seems that one reference is here. Gah4 ( talk) 21:49, 28 October 2019 (UTC)