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Basic copy edit of intro on 20 May 2007 Mtiffany71 05:12, 20 May 2007 (UTC) Talk archive
The original author of this article used the term "new armies", which is misleading and therefore confusing.
After the First Sino-Japanese War (1894-1895), the Qing government reformed the Chinese military. In the section that's titled "Formation of new armies", the author describes the reformed national army (or "New Army", as I have called it) as having consisted of "new armies," whereas in the same section he states that the "new armies" were actually "regiments" (which are also called "brigades"), which are much smaller parts of true armies. Elsewhere in the article, it seems that the "new armies" were sometimes as large as "divisions", which are also only parts of true armies. (For clarification of how a modern army is organized, see: http://www.militarydial.com/army-force-structure.htm .)
In my editing of this article, I have therefore replaced "new armies" with "New Army units" (where "unit" may mean regiment or division), and I have replaced "member of the new armies" with "member of the New Army".
Cwkmail ( talk) 20:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Currently this article has a link to the article for the Wuchang Uprising in the section on the Wuchang Uprising within this article. The section here is significantly larger than the entire Wuchang Uprising article. This doesn't really make any sense, and someone who knows what they're doing should probably fix it. 67.177.138.246 ( talk) 05:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Anyone else who feel that this article could benefit from being condensed and split into further articles? Perhaps a "Very long" tag would be in place? 116.21.197.7 ( talk) 08:27, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
A Background Section without any discussion of the foreign concessions is massive fail. Further, the immediate cause of the rebellion was the situation with the railroads, which go unmentioned in the "background". Meanwhile, the Chinese railroad history page thinks the problem was increasing foreign belligerence post-Boxers combined with Qing inability to run its own railroads (& specifically the pile of foreign railroad concessions in the 1900s and the planned four-power rail being planned in Canton), while this article suggests it was anger at China trying to nationalize and run its railroads itself. That hardly makes sense (most would have cheered nationalizing the South Manchuria Railway, for example), but I'm not expert enough to choose between the articles. — LlywelynII 21:25, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
I'm quite surprised to read that adding the fact that Mongolia and Tibet proclaimed their independence due to the downfall of Imperial authority would be "POV" ? IMHO there is nothing to discuss here, it is just factual, whatever one thinks about the validity of said independence. Jean-Jacques Georges ( talk) 14:03, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
"Even though the Communist Party of China claimed to have created the "people's democratic dictatorship" in 1949 with the establishment of the People's Republic of China, true democracy (e.g. the separation of power in the United States) was never fully implemented by the Beiyang Government, the Nanjing Government led by the Nationalist Party, or the Government of the People's Republic of China" - while it is a fact that true democracy has never existed in China, it is incredibly POV to use the United States which has also in point of fact never been 'truly' democratic - regardless of what you think about affiliated political theorists' claims that it represents an adequate degree, the highest degree extant or the highest degree possible of democracy - as a model of democracy. 2.26.30.50 ( talk) 21:13, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
This article simply looks awkward and disorganized. The biggest problem seems to be all the section headings with only one or two sentences. Perhaps there is an appropriate template? Or, at least something like a timeline simply listing events sequentially. I.e.:
Timeline:
(Etc.) P.s.: this might help it look not quite so "very long". ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 ( talk) 21:55, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Although certainly not an expert on the subject, it is my understanding that hubris and corruption played a significant role; (or at least the perception thereof) and deserves at least a mention in the 'Background'. As with any revolutionary movement, the motivations of the "masses" cannot be overlooked or underestimated. However, this might be a touchy subject as far as NPOV is concerned. ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 ( talk) 22:16, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
The description for this image states "path of the uprising" -- which uprising? (There were many!) The placement of the image doesn't offer much help; neither does WP's file description (Chinese). ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 ( talk) 22:51, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Discussion welcome
Arilang1234 (
talk)
10:47, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Discussion welcome Arilang1234 ( talk) 10:47, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=OYU-AAAAIBAJ&sjid=G1oMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1453,3060347&hl=en
Rajmaan ( talk) 07:41, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Adding more flags haphazardly will only make this page look more cluttered. In addition to the two flags mentioned above, there are others which deserve display. My suggestion is to make an image gallery with an assortment of relevant flags.
Examples: (just suggestions)
Comments? ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 ( talk) 01:28, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
The Navy Ensign is also the party flag of the KMT. 71.80.169.230 ( talk) 08:22, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
These primary sources mention factions of revolutionaries who wanted to put a Han emperor on the throne, with some suggesting the descendant of Confucius and others suggesting the descendant of the Ming dynasty Emperors
http://books.google.com/books?id=ldZAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA382#v=onepage&q&f=false
Page 55
Page 200
Page 67
http://books.google.com/books?id=9jIAeTXh6ugC&pg=PA35#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=csMGAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA35#v=onepage&q&f=false
Because it is causing a Checkwiki error #70: "ISBN with wrong length", I removed the ISBN from the entry:
章士釗. [2000] (1962). 孫黃遺劄密詮,載章士釗全集第8卷. 上海: 文彙出版社 publishing. pg 341. ISBN 780531543.
I have tried unsuccessfully to locate the correct ISBN. The Chinese version of this Wiki article has the same invalid ISBN, and there are no other references to the document on the Internet. Knife-in-the-drawer ( talk) 12:49, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
"The revolution consisted of many revolts and uprisings. The turning point was the Wuchang Uprising on October 10, 1911, that was a result of the mishandling of the Railway Protection Movement."
--- by whom? And is that right word -- mishandling? It makes it sound like it was just a managerial error. Rissa, Guild of Copy Editors ( talk) 02:13, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Because this is a historical article, let us use Postal map for place names and Wade-Giles for everything else. These systems existed In 1911, pinyin did not. OttomanJackson ( talk) 14:23, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
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Recently Xinhai Revolution in Xinjiang had to be semiprotected because of a dispute. That article appears to be on a subtopic of this one. The other article has very little content and it is possible that editors who actually have knowledge in this area don't visit it very often. Can anyone see why the content of Xinhai Revolution in Xinjiang shouldn't be merged into this one? If that was done then the other could become a redirect. EdJohnston ( talk) 03:12, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
The section on the Independence Army Uprising inconsistently states that the Independence Army was organised in 1901 and that the uprising was set for 23 August 1900. Furthermore, it states that Tan Sitong was involved in organising the Independence Army; however, Tan Sitong had been executed in 1898. According to the Wikipedia article on Tang Caichang, the 1900 date for the uprising is correct, so I suspect that the 1901 date is wrong and that the Independence Army was organised earlier, possibly with the involvement of Tan Sitong while he was still alive. However, I don't have any source stating this. If anybody else does, maybe they'd like to edit this section? -- 49.145.71.167 ( talk) 04:09, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
A bit more of an explanation on the origin of the term would be helpful; deciphering using the WP links takes awhile. I'm not even sure if this is on the right track: Xin-[辛,Yin Metal]-Hai[亥,Pig]. ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 ( talk) 21:37, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
The term Xinhai is not comprehensible to most readers, even with the explanation given in the lede. The term is not widely used compared to "1911 Revolution," as shown by this Google Ngram Xinhai Revolution vs 1911 Revolution. Some day I will suggest moving the article to "1911 Revolution," since "1911" is just the English way of saying "Xinhai." ch ( talk) 07:43, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
I think this page should be moved to "1911 Revolution." Only people who speak Chinese call it 辛亥革命。Many non-Chinese people who speak Chinese but studied Chinese history in English still call it the 1911 Revolution. There have been several French revolutions, but the term "the French Revolution" refers only to the revolution of 1789. It's convention. In English, it is not called Révolution française. Similarly, 14th July is called Bastille Day in English, whereas the French never call it that, they call it simply Quatorze Juillet. It is incorrect to say that non-Chinese people would not know what the 1911 Revolution was - that is the common term for the 辛亥革命。 Dena.walemy ( talk) 19:26, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Why is he in infobox? What was his role and was he notable, if no answers i go delete it back Shadow4dark ( talk) 05:08, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
How was the Qing supported by Japan, Russia and Italy? Or does this only refer to any soldiers/traders from those respective countries living in China or providing some economical aid to the Qing prior to the Revolution? Azaan H 11:14, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I was under the impression that the reason the Revolution started at all was because of the accidental bomb which went off in the French Concession. This bomb explosion and the materials present was due to the revolutionaries at the time, but the fact that the Lead does not mention this is very confusing. And while I understand that the revolutionaries and various other anti-Qing groups were planning to revolt, the bomb going off on October 9, 1911, was the cause for their quick actions. Why is this not mentioned in the Lead? AbRoseDeck98 ( talk) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Basic copy edit of intro on 20 May 2007 Mtiffany71 05:12, 20 May 2007 (UTC) Talk archive
The original author of this article used the term "new armies", which is misleading and therefore confusing.
After the First Sino-Japanese War (1894-1895), the Qing government reformed the Chinese military. In the section that's titled "Formation of new armies", the author describes the reformed national army (or "New Army", as I have called it) as having consisted of "new armies," whereas in the same section he states that the "new armies" were actually "regiments" (which are also called "brigades"), which are much smaller parts of true armies. Elsewhere in the article, it seems that the "new armies" were sometimes as large as "divisions", which are also only parts of true armies. (For clarification of how a modern army is organized, see: http://www.militarydial.com/army-force-structure.htm .)
In my editing of this article, I have therefore replaced "new armies" with "New Army units" (where "unit" may mean regiment or division), and I have replaced "member of the new armies" with "member of the New Army".
Cwkmail ( talk) 20:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Currently this article has a link to the article for the Wuchang Uprising in the section on the Wuchang Uprising within this article. The section here is significantly larger than the entire Wuchang Uprising article. This doesn't really make any sense, and someone who knows what they're doing should probably fix it. 67.177.138.246 ( talk) 05:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Anyone else who feel that this article could benefit from being condensed and split into further articles? Perhaps a "Very long" tag would be in place? 116.21.197.7 ( talk) 08:27, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
A Background Section without any discussion of the foreign concessions is massive fail. Further, the immediate cause of the rebellion was the situation with the railroads, which go unmentioned in the "background". Meanwhile, the Chinese railroad history page thinks the problem was increasing foreign belligerence post-Boxers combined with Qing inability to run its own railroads (& specifically the pile of foreign railroad concessions in the 1900s and the planned four-power rail being planned in Canton), while this article suggests it was anger at China trying to nationalize and run its railroads itself. That hardly makes sense (most would have cheered nationalizing the South Manchuria Railway, for example), but I'm not expert enough to choose between the articles. — LlywelynII 21:25, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
I'm quite surprised to read that adding the fact that Mongolia and Tibet proclaimed their independence due to the downfall of Imperial authority would be "POV" ? IMHO there is nothing to discuss here, it is just factual, whatever one thinks about the validity of said independence. Jean-Jacques Georges ( talk) 14:03, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
"Even though the Communist Party of China claimed to have created the "people's democratic dictatorship" in 1949 with the establishment of the People's Republic of China, true democracy (e.g. the separation of power in the United States) was never fully implemented by the Beiyang Government, the Nanjing Government led by the Nationalist Party, or the Government of the People's Republic of China" - while it is a fact that true democracy has never existed in China, it is incredibly POV to use the United States which has also in point of fact never been 'truly' democratic - regardless of what you think about affiliated political theorists' claims that it represents an adequate degree, the highest degree extant or the highest degree possible of democracy - as a model of democracy. 2.26.30.50 ( talk) 21:13, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
This article simply looks awkward and disorganized. The biggest problem seems to be all the section headings with only one or two sentences. Perhaps there is an appropriate template? Or, at least something like a timeline simply listing events sequentially. I.e.:
Timeline:
(Etc.) P.s.: this might help it look not quite so "very long". ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 ( talk) 21:55, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Although certainly not an expert on the subject, it is my understanding that hubris and corruption played a significant role; (or at least the perception thereof) and deserves at least a mention in the 'Background'. As with any revolutionary movement, the motivations of the "masses" cannot be overlooked or underestimated. However, this might be a touchy subject as far as NPOV is concerned. ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 ( talk) 22:16, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
The description for this image states "path of the uprising" -- which uprising? (There were many!) The placement of the image doesn't offer much help; neither does WP's file description (Chinese). ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 ( talk) 22:51, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Discussion welcome
Arilang1234 (
talk)
10:47, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Discussion welcome Arilang1234 ( talk) 10:47, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=OYU-AAAAIBAJ&sjid=G1oMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1453,3060347&hl=en
Rajmaan ( talk) 07:41, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Adding more flags haphazardly will only make this page look more cluttered. In addition to the two flags mentioned above, there are others which deserve display. My suggestion is to make an image gallery with an assortment of relevant flags.
Examples: (just suggestions)
Comments? ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 ( talk) 01:28, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
The Navy Ensign is also the party flag of the KMT. 71.80.169.230 ( talk) 08:22, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
These primary sources mention factions of revolutionaries who wanted to put a Han emperor on the throne, with some suggesting the descendant of Confucius and others suggesting the descendant of the Ming dynasty Emperors
http://books.google.com/books?id=ldZAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA382#v=onepage&q&f=false
Page 55
Page 200
Page 67
http://books.google.com/books?id=9jIAeTXh6ugC&pg=PA35#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=csMGAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA35#v=onepage&q&f=false
Because it is causing a Checkwiki error #70: "ISBN with wrong length", I removed the ISBN from the entry:
章士釗. [2000] (1962). 孫黃遺劄密詮,載章士釗全集第8卷. 上海: 文彙出版社 publishing. pg 341. ISBN 780531543.
I have tried unsuccessfully to locate the correct ISBN. The Chinese version of this Wiki article has the same invalid ISBN, and there are no other references to the document on the Internet. Knife-in-the-drawer ( talk) 12:49, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
"The revolution consisted of many revolts and uprisings. The turning point was the Wuchang Uprising on October 10, 1911, that was a result of the mishandling of the Railway Protection Movement."
--- by whom? And is that right word -- mishandling? It makes it sound like it was just a managerial error. Rissa, Guild of Copy Editors ( talk) 02:13, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Because this is a historical article, let us use Postal map for place names and Wade-Giles for everything else. These systems existed In 1911, pinyin did not. OttomanJackson ( talk) 14:23, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Xinhai Revolution. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:40, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Recently Xinhai Revolution in Xinjiang had to be semiprotected because of a dispute. That article appears to be on a subtopic of this one. The other article has very little content and it is possible that editors who actually have knowledge in this area don't visit it very often. Can anyone see why the content of Xinhai Revolution in Xinjiang shouldn't be merged into this one? If that was done then the other could become a redirect. EdJohnston ( talk) 03:12, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
The section on the Independence Army Uprising inconsistently states that the Independence Army was organised in 1901 and that the uprising was set for 23 August 1900. Furthermore, it states that Tan Sitong was involved in organising the Independence Army; however, Tan Sitong had been executed in 1898. According to the Wikipedia article on Tang Caichang, the 1900 date for the uprising is correct, so I suspect that the 1901 date is wrong and that the Independence Army was organised earlier, possibly with the involvement of Tan Sitong while he was still alive. However, I don't have any source stating this. If anybody else does, maybe they'd like to edit this section? -- 49.145.71.167 ( talk) 04:09, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
A bit more of an explanation on the origin of the term would be helpful; deciphering using the WP links takes awhile. I'm not even sure if this is on the right track: Xin-[辛,Yin Metal]-Hai[亥,Pig]. ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 ( talk) 21:37, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
The term Xinhai is not comprehensible to most readers, even with the explanation given in the lede. The term is not widely used compared to "1911 Revolution," as shown by this Google Ngram Xinhai Revolution vs 1911 Revolution. Some day I will suggest moving the article to "1911 Revolution," since "1911" is just the English way of saying "Xinhai." ch ( talk) 07:43, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
I think this page should be moved to "1911 Revolution." Only people who speak Chinese call it 辛亥革命。Many non-Chinese people who speak Chinese but studied Chinese history in English still call it the 1911 Revolution. There have been several French revolutions, but the term "the French Revolution" refers only to the revolution of 1789. It's convention. In English, it is not called Révolution française. Similarly, 14th July is called Bastille Day in English, whereas the French never call it that, they call it simply Quatorze Juillet. It is incorrect to say that non-Chinese people would not know what the 1911 Revolution was - that is the common term for the 辛亥革命。 Dena.walemy ( talk) 19:26, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Why is he in infobox? What was his role and was he notable, if no answers i go delete it back Shadow4dark ( talk) 05:08, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
How was the Qing supported by Japan, Russia and Italy? Or does this only refer to any soldiers/traders from those respective countries living in China or providing some economical aid to the Qing prior to the Revolution? Azaan H 11:14, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I was under the impression that the reason the Revolution started at all was because of the accidental bomb which went off in the French Concession. This bomb explosion and the materials present was due to the revolutionaries at the time, but the fact that the Lead does not mention this is very confusing. And while I understand that the revolutionaries and various other anti-Qing groups were planning to revolt, the bomb going off on October 9, 1911, was the cause for their quick actions. Why is this not mentioned in the Lead? AbRoseDeck98 ( talk) 18:21, 22 September 2020 (UTC)