This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CanadaWikipedia:WikiProject CanadaTemplate:WikiProject CanadaCanada-related articles
This article is written in
Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
Requested move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was moved. --
BDD (
talk) 19:12, 21 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Support per nom and
WP:UNDAB. --
B2
C 18:21, 24 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Severely reduces recognizability with no advantage to any reader. Advocate
Place, Province generally to create concistency for readers, leading to ease of recognition to settlements. 108 Mile Ranch sounds like a ranch, not a settlement. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 09:16, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
It's a dude ranch-cum-real estate development; many settlements in BC are named ranches e.g.
Gang Ranch. Please read
WP:CSG#Places carefully before making any more oppose votes, and also
WP:UNDAB. The "concistency" [sic] you are referring to is NO comma-province dabs on unique town names; read the guidelines and have a look at the settlement categories and the Consistency section of
WP:TITLE/
Skookum1 (
talk) 13:44, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
I've read these things of course. The guideline has little rational basis. UNDAB is someone's misguide mission without reference to serving the readership. The are so many settlement ambiguities that consistency can ONLY be achieved by comma region formatting. But the clincher, unambiguously expressed in policy, is recognizability, which is severely hurt in this proposal. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 20:52, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Oppose per SmokeyJoe. While I support the general guideline that unique place names do not require disambiguation by province, I am sympathetic to the idea that this case should be an exception based on concerns regarding reader recognizability. The nature of this settlement's name is such that it could easily cause confusion. The addition of the province name makes clear that this a settlement, not a single estate.
Xoloz (
talk) 17:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Many subdivisions of this kind carry "Ranch" and similar nontown words in their names; please see
WP:CANLIST for
Gang Ranch and
Coldstream Ranch, though those are actual working ranchesand not former ranches now worked over into real estate subdivisions; there are others but this is the only one that has a wiki article; this is a known exurb of
100 Mile House, the nearest municipality and main commercial centre in teh
South Cariboo; the
Douglas Lake Cattle Company title for a very famous ranch is also a fancy boutique resort and elite condo holding now as well. There are also "FOO Mile House" titles in BC (70 Mile, 93 Miles, 100 Mile and 150 Mile, as we call them for short; they have all been moved to standalone titles as per
WP:CSG#Places. Non-conventional names are very common in BC....read the list.
Skookum1 (
talk) 18:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
If someone suggested a requested move on some of the place names you mentioned, I might be persuaded that they too merit exceptions to the general guideline. Those places are not currently at issue in this request. The tendency of citizens of a certain region to use unusual place-names is interesting; but, to my thinking, it is not especially relevant. Wikipedia is written for a general readership, not for the citizens of British Columbia, Canada, or any other particular region or nation. Familiarity with local customs should not be assumed.
Xoloz (
talk) 19:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Comment per claims that general readership overrides Canadian dab standards; it does not per ENGVAR and {{Canadian English}}. Other examples of this same series of titles have already passed RM and been moved:
and ultimately there will be others; all such mileage names were conferred by the distance from
Lillooet on the
Old Cariboo Road.
Skookum1 (
talk) 12:02, 10 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Skookum1, noting that this is one of many places named according to distance from Lillooet, places the question in a different light. It would be helpful if the article explained the origin of the name. Are these places named for their distance from the Lillooet boundary, not from the Lillooet center? --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 02:16, 18 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Note
108 Mile Lake. I have no time right now but will add more details to the community article later today.
Skookum1 (
talk) 02:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Support. The article titles policy (
WP:AT) favors the shorter name per the conciseness, precision, and consistency criteria. I don't think recognizability alone (and I don't think what the opposers mean by "recognizable" matches what the recognizability criterion says) can trump those three other criteria. —
seav (
talk) 20:29, 11 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Support per
WP:NCDAB. The statement that "108 Mile Ranch sounds like a ranch, not a settlement" doesn't really have much bearing on whether or not to keep the ", British Columbia". Either a reader already knows what 108 Mile Ranch is, in which case the ", British Columbia" is superfluous, or he doesn't, in which case the ", British Columbia" does nothing to clarify it (i.e., he still must click and read the article. On the other hand, having the ", British Columbia" is possibly misleading in that it makes it appear as if there are other 108 Mile Ranches. —
AjaxSmack 00:13, 21 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Comment Unusual settlement/town names in British Columbia are not rare; have a look here at
WP:CANLIST which is the current listing of all unique-placenames without comma-province dabs.
Skookum1 (
talk) 02:12, 21 April 2014 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CanadaWikipedia:WikiProject CanadaTemplate:WikiProject CanadaCanada-related articles
This article is written in
Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
Requested move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the proposal was moved. --
BDD (
talk) 19:12, 21 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Support per nom and
WP:UNDAB. --
B2
C 18:21, 24 March 2014 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Severely reduces recognizability with no advantage to any reader. Advocate
Place, Province generally to create concistency for readers, leading to ease of recognition to settlements. 108 Mile Ranch sounds like a ranch, not a settlement. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 09:16, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
It's a dude ranch-cum-real estate development; many settlements in BC are named ranches e.g.
Gang Ranch. Please read
WP:CSG#Places carefully before making any more oppose votes, and also
WP:UNDAB. The "concistency" [sic] you are referring to is NO comma-province dabs on unique town names; read the guidelines and have a look at the settlement categories and the Consistency section of
WP:TITLE/
Skookum1 (
talk) 13:44, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
I've read these things of course. The guideline has little rational basis. UNDAB is someone's misguide mission without reference to serving the readership. The are so many settlement ambiguities that consistency can ONLY be achieved by comma region formatting. But the clincher, unambiguously expressed in policy, is recognizability, which is severely hurt in this proposal. --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 20:52, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Oppose per SmokeyJoe. While I support the general guideline that unique place names do not require disambiguation by province, I am sympathetic to the idea that this case should be an exception based on concerns regarding reader recognizability. The nature of this settlement's name is such that it could easily cause confusion. The addition of the province name makes clear that this a settlement, not a single estate.
Xoloz (
talk) 17:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Many subdivisions of this kind carry "Ranch" and similar nontown words in their names; please see
WP:CANLIST for
Gang Ranch and
Coldstream Ranch, though those are actual working ranchesand not former ranches now worked over into real estate subdivisions; there are others but this is the only one that has a wiki article; this is a known exurb of
100 Mile House, the nearest municipality and main commercial centre in teh
South Cariboo; the
Douglas Lake Cattle Company title for a very famous ranch is also a fancy boutique resort and elite condo holding now as well. There are also "FOO Mile House" titles in BC (70 Mile, 93 Miles, 100 Mile and 150 Mile, as we call them for short; they have all been moved to standalone titles as per
WP:CSG#Places. Non-conventional names are very common in BC....read the list.
Skookum1 (
talk) 18:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
If someone suggested a requested move on some of the place names you mentioned, I might be persuaded that they too merit exceptions to the general guideline. Those places are not currently at issue in this request. The tendency of citizens of a certain region to use unusual place-names is interesting; but, to my thinking, it is not especially relevant. Wikipedia is written for a general readership, not for the citizens of British Columbia, Canada, or any other particular region or nation. Familiarity with local customs should not be assumed.
Xoloz (
talk) 19:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Comment per claims that general readership overrides Canadian dab standards; it does not per ENGVAR and {{Canadian English}}. Other examples of this same series of titles have already passed RM and been moved:
and ultimately there will be others; all such mileage names were conferred by the distance from
Lillooet on the
Old Cariboo Road.
Skookum1 (
talk) 12:02, 10 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Skookum1, noting that this is one of many places named according to distance from Lillooet, places the question in a different light. It would be helpful if the article explained the origin of the name. Are these places named for their distance from the Lillooet boundary, not from the Lillooet center? --
SmokeyJoe (
talk) 02:16, 18 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Note
108 Mile Lake. I have no time right now but will add more details to the community article later today.
Skookum1 (
talk) 02:48, 18 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Support. The article titles policy (
WP:AT) favors the shorter name per the conciseness, precision, and consistency criteria. I don't think recognizability alone (and I don't think what the opposers mean by "recognizable" matches what the recognizability criterion says) can trump those three other criteria. —
seav (
talk) 20:29, 11 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Support per
WP:NCDAB. The statement that "108 Mile Ranch sounds like a ranch, not a settlement" doesn't really have much bearing on whether or not to keep the ", British Columbia". Either a reader already knows what 108 Mile Ranch is, in which case the ", British Columbia" is superfluous, or he doesn't, in which case the ", British Columbia" does nothing to clarify it (i.e., he still must click and read the article. On the other hand, having the ", British Columbia" is possibly misleading in that it makes it appear as if there are other 108 Mile Ranches. —
AjaxSmack 00:13, 21 April 2014 (UTC)reply
Comment Unusual settlement/town names in British Columbia are not rare; have a look here at
WP:CANLIST which is the current listing of all unique-placenames without comma-province dabs.
Skookum1 (
talk) 02:12, 21 April 2014 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.