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Governor Perier was born as "Etienne Perier" son of Étienne Perier and Marie de Launay. The family surname was "Perier" but around the time of its ennoblement in 1726 and after, sometime Etienne Perier was called "de Perier" (by courtesy?) and his brother took the surname "Perier de Salverte", but there were no letters patent to legally authorize them to change their surname (legally required under the Ancien Régime in France to change a surname).
The source Grand Armorial de France volume 7, 1952 page 318
[1] :
"Cette famille était représentée au XVIIe siècle par Etienne Perier, né en 1644. anobli en 1726, marié à Delle de Launay qui lui donna entre autres : - 1° Etienne, Lt-Général des Armées Navales, Gouverneur de la Louisiane, G. Croix de St-L., allié à Dlle Le Chibelier, père de 2 fils morts s. a. ; - 2° Antoine-Alexis Perier de Salvert, Chef d'Escadre, Comm. de St-L., mort en 1757, qui laissa 2 fils : -a) Léonor-Jacques, Capitaine de Vaisseaux, Chr de St-L., s. p. ; - b) Louis-Alexis, Comm. de St-L., marié à Catherine de Gervais, d'où postérité éteinte au début du XXe siècle."
does not provide any information concerning the evolution of their name.
However this source Grand Armorial de France is not a reliable source on the Perier family, because the authors wrote that the extant "de Perier" family (not noble) came from a nephew of governor Perier, while it is proven that this is false, and we don't even know if this second family Perier (also from Le Havre) is really related to the first one as its claims without any proof.
See: the French article Famille de Perier and the end of Discussion Famille de Perier where this was already discuted, Regards, -- Belyny ( talk) 19:36, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
(copied from above) When we have a consensus on all the content of the article, I propose a discussion and find a consensus about the title of this article which was Etienne Perier (Governor) before its modification without valid reason by a sockpuppet. Regards, -- Belyny ( talk) 18:20, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
Hi Carter,
So unless your are opposed to this, I cancel the modifications of the sockpuppet Caux9/Savary34 and I restore the original title "Étienne Perier (Governor)" and in the text I restaure the text in "Étienne Perier (1687 – 1766), also known as Perier the Elder (French: Perier l'Aîné)".
Nota : I agree with you last version of the note "In sources, Perier's surname is variously rendered as Perier, Périer, or Perrier, both with and without the particle de". Regards, -- Belyny ( talk) 15:20, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
In looking for sources on the family surname, I ran across this: Vergé-Franceschi, Michel (1991). "Les Normands officiers généraux de la Marine Royale aux XVIIe et XVIIIe siècles" [The Norman General Officers of the Royal Navy in the 17th and 18th Centuries]. Études Normandes (in French). 40 (3): 8. Retrieved July 19, 2021. Belyny, I believe you've stated that Vergé-Franceschi is a high quality, reliable source. He states:
Les nécessités du service de mer déplacent les officiers de la marine du Roi et leurs familles. Etienne Périer (1644–1726) est havrais. Corsaire en Levant, croissant en Méditerranée, il demeure havrais. Sa femme vit au Havre. Son fils aîné, Etienne II Périer (Le Havre 1687 – Morlaix 1766), chef d’escadre (1751), lieutenant général (1757) naît toujours en ce port dont la première pierre fut posée en 1517 par le vice-amiral Du Chillou, bisaïeul de Richelieu. Mais devenu officier des vaisseaux du Roi et capitaine du port à Dunkerque, Etienne I est amené à déménager. Son second fils, Antoine-Alexis Périer, dit Périer de Salvert (Dunkerque 1691 – Versailles 1757), chef d’escadre (1752) naît en la patrie de Jean Bart.
If this is accurate and unless there are other sources stating otherwise, we should amend Perier's birthplace and add a mention, sourced to this article, in the Early life section that the family moved from Le Havre to Dunkirk by 1691. — Carter ( talk) 13:15, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the requested title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 15:41, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Étienne Perier (governor) → Étienne de Perier – According to the most recent and complete dictionary of Louisiana governors, his name is Étienne de Perier, not Étienne Perier. See: Louisiana Governors : Rulers, Rascals, and Reformers (2010, page 25). "de Perier" is also used in The Louisiana Governors: From Iberville to Edwards. BBC440 ( talk) 12:07, 15 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 04:40, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB05:8915:D300:C07D:1416:154E:6727 ( talk) 15:49, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
Hello,
I found the complete signature of the subject in which he gives the name "Estienne de Perier". Estienne is the old form of Etienne, but here he calleS himself "de Perier" with a particle and not simply "Perier". This supports the renaming of the article to "Etienne de Perier".
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Signature_de_%C3%89tienne_de_Perier_(1686-1766).png
Sincerely — Preceding unsigned comment added by HCC789 ( talk • contribs) 15:38, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
Finally, it is indeed the signature of the subject and not of another person. Why is this so? Because his father died in 1726, but the document dates from 1742, and because there is only one Etienne de Perier at that time (this name has been borne by only 3 people in history, one of whom is still alive). Even if there was another Etienne de Perier who would have left absolutely no trace of his existence, it is obvious that he would not have sponsored a member of a family to which he did not belong... To make it easier for you, I translate the document into English; Baptismal act The year 1742 the 27th day of October I solemnly baptized on the baptismal font of Lanriec Claude Rosalie de Salvert Perier born the same day at the castle of Moros, legitimate daughter of squire Antoine Alexis de Salvert Perier, captain of ships, and of Angelique Aimée Rosalie de Laduz de Vieuxchamps her father and mother, the godfather was squire Etienne de Perier, captain of ships, and miss Jeanne Claude de Laduz de Vieuxchamps who signed. Signed: Jeanne Claude Laduz de Vieuchant, Estienne de Perier, Rome de Pesron, Perier de Salvert, Louis Perier de Kerrichard, J. Menguy priest and rector of Lanriec. The fact that he was a captain and that he was the godfather of the daughter of his brother Antoine Alexis leaves absolutely no room for doubt. Etienne de Perier is the author of this signature which shows his real name. I therefore maintain my request for renaming to Étienne de Perier-- HCC789 ( talk) 18:03, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Étienne Perier (governor) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
Étienne Perier (governor) has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||
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This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
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This article was created or improved during WikiProject Europe's " European 10,000 Challenge", which started on November 1, 2016, and is ongoing. You can help out! |
This article has previously been nominated to be moved.
Discussions:
|
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A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
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Governor Perier was born as "Etienne Perier" son of Étienne Perier and Marie de Launay. The family surname was "Perier" but around the time of its ennoblement in 1726 and after, sometime Etienne Perier was called "de Perier" (by courtesy?) and his brother took the surname "Perier de Salverte", but there were no letters patent to legally authorize them to change their surname (legally required under the Ancien Régime in France to change a surname).
The source Grand Armorial de France volume 7, 1952 page 318
[1] :
"Cette famille était représentée au XVIIe siècle par Etienne Perier, né en 1644. anobli en 1726, marié à Delle de Launay qui lui donna entre autres : - 1° Etienne, Lt-Général des Armées Navales, Gouverneur de la Louisiane, G. Croix de St-L., allié à Dlle Le Chibelier, père de 2 fils morts s. a. ; - 2° Antoine-Alexis Perier de Salvert, Chef d'Escadre, Comm. de St-L., mort en 1757, qui laissa 2 fils : -a) Léonor-Jacques, Capitaine de Vaisseaux, Chr de St-L., s. p. ; - b) Louis-Alexis, Comm. de St-L., marié à Catherine de Gervais, d'où postérité éteinte au début du XXe siècle."
does not provide any information concerning the evolution of their name.
However this source Grand Armorial de France is not a reliable source on the Perier family, because the authors wrote that the extant "de Perier" family (not noble) came from a nephew of governor Perier, while it is proven that this is false, and we don't even know if this second family Perier (also from Le Havre) is really related to the first one as its claims without any proof.
See: the French article Famille de Perier and the end of Discussion Famille de Perier where this was already discuted, Regards, -- Belyny ( talk) 19:36, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
(copied from above) When we have a consensus on all the content of the article, I propose a discussion and find a consensus about the title of this article which was Etienne Perier (Governor) before its modification without valid reason by a sockpuppet. Regards, -- Belyny ( talk) 18:20, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
Hi Carter,
So unless your are opposed to this, I cancel the modifications of the sockpuppet Caux9/Savary34 and I restore the original title "Étienne Perier (Governor)" and in the text I restaure the text in "Étienne Perier (1687 – 1766), also known as Perier the Elder (French: Perier l'Aîné)".
Nota : I agree with you last version of the note "In sources, Perier's surname is variously rendered as Perier, Périer, or Perrier, both with and without the particle de". Regards, -- Belyny ( talk) 15:20, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
In looking for sources on the family surname, I ran across this: Vergé-Franceschi, Michel (1991). "Les Normands officiers généraux de la Marine Royale aux XVIIe et XVIIIe siècles" [The Norman General Officers of the Royal Navy in the 17th and 18th Centuries]. Études Normandes (in French). 40 (3): 8. Retrieved July 19, 2021. Belyny, I believe you've stated that Vergé-Franceschi is a high quality, reliable source. He states:
Les nécessités du service de mer déplacent les officiers de la marine du Roi et leurs familles. Etienne Périer (1644–1726) est havrais. Corsaire en Levant, croissant en Méditerranée, il demeure havrais. Sa femme vit au Havre. Son fils aîné, Etienne II Périer (Le Havre 1687 – Morlaix 1766), chef d’escadre (1751), lieutenant général (1757) naît toujours en ce port dont la première pierre fut posée en 1517 par le vice-amiral Du Chillou, bisaïeul de Richelieu. Mais devenu officier des vaisseaux du Roi et capitaine du port à Dunkerque, Etienne I est amené à déménager. Son second fils, Antoine-Alexis Périer, dit Périer de Salvert (Dunkerque 1691 – Versailles 1757), chef d’escadre (1752) naît en la patrie de Jean Bart.
If this is accurate and unless there are other sources stating otherwise, we should amend Perier's birthplace and add a mention, sourced to this article, in the Early life section that the family moved from Le Havre to Dunkirk by 1691. — Carter ( talk) 13:15, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page to the requested title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 15:41, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
Étienne Perier (governor) → Étienne de Perier – According to the most recent and complete dictionary of Louisiana governors, his name is Étienne de Perier, not Étienne Perier. See: Louisiana Governors : Rulers, Rascals, and Reformers (2010, page 25). "de Perier" is also used in The Louisiana Governors: From Iberville to Edwards. BBC440 ( talk) 12:07, 15 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 04:40, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB05:8915:D300:C07D:1416:154E:6727 ( talk) 15:49, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
Hello,
I found the complete signature of the subject in which he gives the name "Estienne de Perier". Estienne is the old form of Etienne, but here he calleS himself "de Perier" with a particle and not simply "Perier". This supports the renaming of the article to "Etienne de Perier".
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Signature_de_%C3%89tienne_de_Perier_(1686-1766).png
Sincerely — Preceding unsigned comment added by HCC789 ( talk • contribs) 15:38, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
Finally, it is indeed the signature of the subject and not of another person. Why is this so? Because his father died in 1726, but the document dates from 1742, and because there is only one Etienne de Perier at that time (this name has been borne by only 3 people in history, one of whom is still alive). Even if there was another Etienne de Perier who would have left absolutely no trace of his existence, it is obvious that he would not have sponsored a member of a family to which he did not belong... To make it easier for you, I translate the document into English; Baptismal act The year 1742 the 27th day of October I solemnly baptized on the baptismal font of Lanriec Claude Rosalie de Salvert Perier born the same day at the castle of Moros, legitimate daughter of squire Antoine Alexis de Salvert Perier, captain of ships, and of Angelique Aimée Rosalie de Laduz de Vieuxchamps her father and mother, the godfather was squire Etienne de Perier, captain of ships, and miss Jeanne Claude de Laduz de Vieuxchamps who signed. Signed: Jeanne Claude Laduz de Vieuchant, Estienne de Perier, Rome de Pesron, Perier de Salvert, Louis Perier de Kerrichard, J. Menguy priest and rector of Lanriec. The fact that he was a captain and that he was the godfather of the daughter of his brother Antoine Alexis leaves absolutely no room for doubt. Etienne de Perier is the author of this signature which shows his real name. I therefore maintain my request for renaming to Étienne de Perier-- HCC789 ( talk) 18:03, 17 June 2022 (UTC)