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I edited the page to include the following:-
In 1931 he said in the Dáil that "if I had a vote on a local body, and if there were two qualified people who had to deal with a Catholic community, and if one was a Catholic and the other a Protestant, I would unhesitatingly vote for the Catholic. Let us be clear and let us know where we are." [1]
User:FDW777 reverted this on the following basis "He said a lof of things in Dáil Éireann, what's the significance of that one?"
I will answer in the words of Dwyer, Ryle (2 February 2008). "Political hypocrisy has long history, but Bertie is guilty of much worse". Irish Examiner. Retrieved 26 December 2021.
"If those were his honest views, one could also say without hesitation that the Long Fellow was a bigot. But, in fact, he was just playing the role of a political hypocrite."
And Mohr, Thomas (8 November 2021). "Religious Minorities under the Constitution of the Irish Free State, 1922–1937". American Journal of Legal History. 61 (2). doi: 10.1093/ajlh/njab002. Retrieved 26 December 2021.
"the Irish government’s argument that the Protestant minority did not require external safeguards, such as the Privy Council appeal, in order to uphold its rights ... Unfortunately, this stand was undermined when Eamon de Valera threw the support of the main opposition party behind Mayo county council. De Valera maintained a similar stance with respect to the appointment of non-Catholic dispensary doctors in Catholic areas."
The article on James Craig, 1st Viscount Craigavon rightly quotes his reference in the Northern Ireland Parliament to "a Protestant Parliament and a Protestant State." I suggest that De Valera's article should also quote his statement in the Dáil which I quoted." Alekksandr ( talk) 18:53, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
References
I have stated more than once what my position on these matters is, and I do not hesitate to state it now. I believe that every citizen in this country is entitled to his share of public appointments, and that there should not be discrimination on the ground of religion, discrimination, mind you, in the sense that because a person was of a particular religion, religion should not be made an excuse for denying a person an appointment for which he or she was fully qualified. Then there comes the question, what are qualifications? If I thought that the principle that the librarian in a Catholic community should be Catholic was a new principle, introduced merely to deny a Protestant an appointment, I would vote against it, but I know from my youth that it is not so. So does the Minister for Local Government, and so does every Catholic Deputy in this House. They know, if they have been instructed in the matter at all, that the guardianship of education has been jealously looked after, so far as Catholics are concerned. So far as education is concerned they made tremendous sacrifices in order to see that Catholic children were educated in accordance with Catholic principles. There is, however, even more than education in it, and the Minister knows it. On the occasion to which I refer the reason that I was going to speak was because the appointment was in connection with a doctor. Now, I say deliberately that it is not because we want to use religion as an excuse that this matter is raised by Catholics in the country. If they are raising it, it is because everybody knows that at the moment of death Catholics are particularly anxious that their people should be attended by Catholic doctors.
I've restored the content. It is both WP:DUE and reliably sourced, and there is consensus for inclusion. WP:ONUS is satisfied. If you think there's a WP:BALANCE that's missing, we can certainly address that. I'd have no problem including the full quote above, for example, or a portion of it. What is not acceptable is excising the content because you disapprove of it. Please do not remove the content again without consensus. Right now, you don't have it. (You're no doubt already aware, but please note the article is subject to 1RR). Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 16:01, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
Using the ruse of defending NPOV to restore text that describes a revolutionary group, their internal organization, and their internationally unrecognized "republic" as if it were valid state with legitimate, legal offices is utterly laughable. Historial revisionism at its finest. ₪ MIESIANIACAL 22:46, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
to ask for official recognition of the revolutionary republic, wikilinking to Irish Republic. Fails WP:ASTONISH.
While American recognition of the rebel republic had been his priority. Fails WP:NPOV by being distinctly non-neutral. And I believe unsupported by the source.
President of the revolutionary republic. Also fails WP:NPOV as de Valera's title during the period of 26 August 1921 and 9 January 1922 was President of the Republic.
When fighting broke out in Dublin between the Four Courts garrison and the new Free State Army, republicans backed the IRA men.Removes context that was present in the long standing text.
The prime minister of the Free State, W. T. CosgraveCosgrave never held the position of Taoiseach/prime minister, as the position didn't exist until 1937. During 1923 Cosgrave was President of the Executive Council.
He was re-elected President in 1966, aged 84, until 2013...
Valetude ( talk) 19:24, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Éamon de Valera article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6Auto-archiving period: 180 days |
Éamon de Valera is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page has been cited as a
source by a notable professional or academic publication: Pace International Law Review |
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Troubles, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 |
This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present. |
I edited the page to include the following:-
In 1931 he said in the Dáil that "if I had a vote on a local body, and if there were two qualified people who had to deal with a Catholic community, and if one was a Catholic and the other a Protestant, I would unhesitatingly vote for the Catholic. Let us be clear and let us know where we are." [1]
User:FDW777 reverted this on the following basis "He said a lof of things in Dáil Éireann, what's the significance of that one?"
I will answer in the words of Dwyer, Ryle (2 February 2008). "Political hypocrisy has long history, but Bertie is guilty of much worse". Irish Examiner. Retrieved 26 December 2021.
"If those were his honest views, one could also say without hesitation that the Long Fellow was a bigot. But, in fact, he was just playing the role of a political hypocrite."
And Mohr, Thomas (8 November 2021). "Religious Minorities under the Constitution of the Irish Free State, 1922–1937". American Journal of Legal History. 61 (2). doi: 10.1093/ajlh/njab002. Retrieved 26 December 2021.
"the Irish government’s argument that the Protestant minority did not require external safeguards, such as the Privy Council appeal, in order to uphold its rights ... Unfortunately, this stand was undermined when Eamon de Valera threw the support of the main opposition party behind Mayo county council. De Valera maintained a similar stance with respect to the appointment of non-Catholic dispensary doctors in Catholic areas."
The article on James Craig, 1st Viscount Craigavon rightly quotes his reference in the Northern Ireland Parliament to "a Protestant Parliament and a Protestant State." I suggest that De Valera's article should also quote his statement in the Dáil which I quoted." Alekksandr ( talk) 18:53, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
References
I have stated more than once what my position on these matters is, and I do not hesitate to state it now. I believe that every citizen in this country is entitled to his share of public appointments, and that there should not be discrimination on the ground of religion, discrimination, mind you, in the sense that because a person was of a particular religion, religion should not be made an excuse for denying a person an appointment for which he or she was fully qualified. Then there comes the question, what are qualifications? If I thought that the principle that the librarian in a Catholic community should be Catholic was a new principle, introduced merely to deny a Protestant an appointment, I would vote against it, but I know from my youth that it is not so. So does the Minister for Local Government, and so does every Catholic Deputy in this House. They know, if they have been instructed in the matter at all, that the guardianship of education has been jealously looked after, so far as Catholics are concerned. So far as education is concerned they made tremendous sacrifices in order to see that Catholic children were educated in accordance with Catholic principles. There is, however, even more than education in it, and the Minister knows it. On the occasion to which I refer the reason that I was going to speak was because the appointment was in connection with a doctor. Now, I say deliberately that it is not because we want to use religion as an excuse that this matter is raised by Catholics in the country. If they are raising it, it is because everybody knows that at the moment of death Catholics are particularly anxious that their people should be attended by Catholic doctors.
I've restored the content. It is both WP:DUE and reliably sourced, and there is consensus for inclusion. WP:ONUS is satisfied. If you think there's a WP:BALANCE that's missing, we can certainly address that. I'd have no problem including the full quote above, for example, or a portion of it. What is not acceptable is excising the content because you disapprove of it. Please do not remove the content again without consensus. Right now, you don't have it. (You're no doubt already aware, but please note the article is subject to 1RR). Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 16:01, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
Using the ruse of defending NPOV to restore text that describes a revolutionary group, their internal organization, and their internationally unrecognized "republic" as if it were valid state with legitimate, legal offices is utterly laughable. Historial revisionism at its finest. ₪ MIESIANIACAL 22:46, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
to ask for official recognition of the revolutionary republic, wikilinking to Irish Republic. Fails WP:ASTONISH.
While American recognition of the rebel republic had been his priority. Fails WP:NPOV by being distinctly non-neutral. And I believe unsupported by the source.
President of the revolutionary republic. Also fails WP:NPOV as de Valera's title during the period of 26 August 1921 and 9 January 1922 was President of the Republic.
When fighting broke out in Dublin between the Four Courts garrison and the new Free State Army, republicans backed the IRA men.Removes context that was present in the long standing text.
The prime minister of the Free State, W. T. CosgraveCosgrave never held the position of Taoiseach/prime minister, as the position didn't exist until 1937. During 1923 Cosgrave was President of the Executive Council.
He was re-elected President in 1966, aged 84, until 2013...
Valetude ( talk) 19:24, 1 September 2022 (UTC)