This page is an archive of past discussions from Template talk:2022–23 Top 14 Table. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Rugby union Template‑class | |||||||
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@ FrenchFootball: Please understand that Module:Sports table is an all-purpose table for the majority of sports, and not just association football. I put in a lot of effort to adapt Module:Sports table/Custom to suit the style of Top 14, with its bonus points counting to the sum of points as well, among other things. — AFC Vixen 🦊 ( talk) 18:00, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel: Can you please explain what your " actual update" is all about? — AFC Vixen 🦊 ( talk) 01:42, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
I am hoping that we can immediately, without discussion, remove the "tries for" and "tries against" columns, and merge the "try bonus" and "losing bonus" columns into a simple "bonus" column. The current source is clearly unreliable as three of these columns are literally "0"s across the rows. This is objectively a failed verification. No reliable source I have seen ( the official table, Le Figaro, BBC, Sky Sports) even has these numbers.
Otherwise, as a subjective argument for replacing the entire table instead of just these columns, I make three points.
Updated to match(es) played on 25 December 2022. Source:
Top 14
Rules for classification: 1) Competition points earned in head-to-head matches; 2) Points difference in head-to-head matches; 3) Try differential in head-to-head matches; 4) Points difference in all matches; 5) Try differential in all matches; 6) Points scored in all matches; 7) Tries scored in all matches; 8) Fewer matches forfeited; 9) Classification in the previous Top 14 season. |
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Club | Played | Won | Drawn | Lost | Points for | Points against | Points diff. | Bonus | Points | ||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Toulouse | 13 | 9 | 1 | 3 | 351 | 214 | +137 | 6 | 44 | |||||||
2 | Stade Français | 13 | 7 | 1 | 5 | 339 | 224 | +115 | 7 | 37 | |||||||
3 | Racing | 13 | 8 | 0 | 5 | 366 | 335 | +31 | 3 | 35 | |||||||
4 | Montpellier | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 348 | 282 | +66 | 6 | 34 | |||||||
5 | La Rochelle | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 306 | 253 | +53 | 4 | 32 | |||||||
6 | Bayonne | 13 | 7 | 1 | 5 | 295 | 309 | –14 | 1 | 31 | |||||||
7 | Bordeaux Bègles | 13 | 6 | 1 | 6 | 279 | 276 | +3 | 4 | 30 | |||||||
8 | Toulon | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 299 | 269 | +30 | 2 | 30 | |||||||
9 | Lyon | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 302 | 328 | –26 | 1 | 29 | |||||||
10 | Clermont | 13 | 5 | 1 | 7 | 287 | 321 | –34 | 5 | 27 | |||||||
11 | Pau | 13 | 5 | 1 | 7 | 306 | 310 | –4 | 5 | 27 | |||||||
12 | Castres | 13 | 6 | 0 | 7 | 265 | 306 | –41 | 2 | 26 | |||||||
13 | Perpignan | 13 | 4 | 0 | 9 | 188 | 352 | –166 | 2 | 18 | |||||||
14 | Brive | 13 | 3 | 0 | 10 | 202 | 354 | –152 | 5 | 17 | |||||||
If teams are level at any stage, tiebreakers are applied in the following order:
| |||||||||||||||||
Green background (rows 1 and 2) will receive semi-final play-off and
2023–24 European Rugby Champions Cup places. Blue background (rows 3 to 6) will receive quarter-final play-off and Champions Cup places. Plain background will receive 2023–24 European Rugby Challenge Cup places. Pink background (row 13) will receive a relegation play-off place. Red background (row 14) will be relegated to the 2023–24 Rugby Pro D2. Updated to match(es) played on 25 December 2022. Source: Top 14 |
— AFC Vixen 🦊 14:12, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
My comment is the model I insist is used is the same used for other tables used in the sport. In terms of rugby union, this is the way the table currently is. The current table is also used in every other European league and competition provincially and internationally. Therefore, I do not understand why it should be changed to another module used in other sports. Using another module also does not improve the table, which is why I underline keeping it the way it is. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel ( talk) 22:32, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
Should this season's rugby union Top 14 Table be updated to the module-based table or remain as-is? -- (loopback) ping/ whereis 07:25, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
A: The table should remain. The consensus across rugby union articles is the wikitext based table across a wide variety of competitions and leagues. There is no pressing need to change formats.
B: The tables should be replaced with Module:Sports table. This universal module works fine for rugby union, and other, similar sports already use it; there is no need for different tables when one works for all. Continued maintenance of the table would be made easier through automated fields and error messages to identify problems, while its design improves readability and reduces size without removing information.
Copied from above:
A: My comment is the model I insist is used is the same used for other tables used in the sport. In terms of rugby union, this is the way the table currently is. The current table is also used in every other European league and competition provincially and internationally. Therefore, I do not understand why it should be changed to another module used in other sports. Using another module also does not improve the table, which is why I underline keeping it the way it is. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel ( talk) 22:32, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
B:
I am hoping that we can immediately, without discussion, remove the "tries for" and "tries against" columns, and merge the "try bonus" and "losing bonus" columns into a simple "bonus" column. The current source is clearly unreliable as three of these columns are literally "0"s across the rows. This is objectively a failed verification. No reliable source I have seen ( the official table, Le Figaro, BBC, Sky Sports) even has these numbers.
Otherwise, as a subjective argument for replacing the entire table instead of just these columns, I make three points.
Updated to match(es) played on 25 December 2022. Source:
Top 14
Rules for classification: 1) Competition points earned in head-to-head matches; 2) Points difference in head-to-head matches; 3) Try differential in head-to-head matches; 4) Points difference in all matches; 5) Try differential in all matches; 6) Points scored in all matches; 7) Tries scored in all matches; 8) Fewer matches forfeited; 9) Classification in the previous Top 14 season. |
| |||||||||||||||||
Club | Played | Won | Drawn | Lost | Points for | Points against | Points diff. | Bonus | Points | ||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Toulouse | 13 | 9 | 1 | 3 | 351 | 214 | +137 | 6 | 44 | |||||||
2 | Stade Français | 13 | 7 | 1 | 5 | 339 | 224 | +115 | 7 | 37 | |||||||
3 | Racing | 13 | 8 | 0 | 5 | 366 | 335 | +31 | 3 | 35 | |||||||
4 | Montpellier | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 348 | 282 | +66 | 6 | 34 | |||||||
5 | La Rochelle | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 306 | 253 | +53 | 4 | 32 | |||||||
6 | Bayonne | 13 | 7 | 1 | 5 | 295 | 309 | –14 | 1 | 31 | |||||||
7 | Bordeaux Bègles | 13 | 6 | 1 | 6 | 279 | 276 | +3 | 4 | 30 | |||||||
8 | Toulon | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 299 | 269 | +30 | 2 | 30 | |||||||
9 | Lyon | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 302 | 328 | –26 | 1 | 29 | |||||||
10 | Clermont | 13 | 5 | 1 | 7 | 287 | 321 | –34 | 5 | 27 | |||||||
11 | Pau | 13 | 5 | 1 | 7 | 306 | 310 | –4 | 5 | 27 | |||||||
12 | Castres | 13 | 6 | 0 | 7 | 265 | 306 | –41 | 2 | 26 | |||||||
13 | Perpignan | 13 | 4 | 0 | 9 | 188 | 352 | –166 | 2 | 18 | |||||||
14 | Brive | 13 | 3 | 0 | 10 | 202 | 354 | –152 | 5 | 17 | |||||||
If teams are level at any stage, tiebreakers are applied in the following order:
| |||||||||||||||||
Green background (rows 1 and 2) will receive semi-final play-off and
2023–24 European Rugby Champions Cup places. Blue background (rows 3 to 6) will receive quarter-final play-off and Champions Cup places. Plain background will receive 2023–24 European Rugby Challenge Cup places. Pink background (row 13) will receive a relegation play-off place. Red background (row 14) will be relegated to the 2023–24 Rugby Pro D2. Updated to match(es) played on 25 December 2022. Source: Top 14 |
— AFC Vixen 🦊 14:12, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
Now that you have put the decision against me, I feel it is not right for me to continue updating the French leagues as much as I can, considering I was one of only a couple doing it, and for a brief tenure, the only person. My peaceful protest is now to say, you're on your own. Good luck. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel ( talk) 19:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Frietjes: Do you have a reliable source for the try and losing bonus split? As noted multiple times in the lengthy discussion above, neither LNR, Le Figaro, BBC, nor Sky Sports distinguish try and losing bonus points, and I was wondering if you were working with another reliable source that you didn't add to the bottom of the table... — AFC Vixen 🦊 05:21, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions from Template talk:2022–23 Top 14 Table. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Rugby union Template‑class | |||||||
|
@ FrenchFootball: Please understand that Module:Sports table is an all-purpose table for the majority of sports, and not just association football. I put in a lot of effort to adapt Module:Sports table/Custom to suit the style of Top 14, with its bonus points counting to the sum of points as well, among other things. — AFC Vixen 🦊 ( talk) 18:00, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel: Can you please explain what your " actual update" is all about? — AFC Vixen 🦊 ( talk) 01:42, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
I am hoping that we can immediately, without discussion, remove the "tries for" and "tries against" columns, and merge the "try bonus" and "losing bonus" columns into a simple "bonus" column. The current source is clearly unreliable as three of these columns are literally "0"s across the rows. This is objectively a failed verification. No reliable source I have seen ( the official table, Le Figaro, BBC, Sky Sports) even has these numbers.
Otherwise, as a subjective argument for replacing the entire table instead of just these columns, I make three points.
Updated to match(es) played on 25 December 2022. Source:
Top 14
Rules for classification: 1) Competition points earned in head-to-head matches; 2) Points difference in head-to-head matches; 3) Try differential in head-to-head matches; 4) Points difference in all matches; 5) Try differential in all matches; 6) Points scored in all matches; 7) Tries scored in all matches; 8) Fewer matches forfeited; 9) Classification in the previous Top 14 season. |
| |||||||||||||||||
Club | Played | Won | Drawn | Lost | Points for | Points against | Points diff. | Bonus | Points | ||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Toulouse | 13 | 9 | 1 | 3 | 351 | 214 | +137 | 6 | 44 | |||||||
2 | Stade Français | 13 | 7 | 1 | 5 | 339 | 224 | +115 | 7 | 37 | |||||||
3 | Racing | 13 | 8 | 0 | 5 | 366 | 335 | +31 | 3 | 35 | |||||||
4 | Montpellier | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 348 | 282 | +66 | 6 | 34 | |||||||
5 | La Rochelle | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 306 | 253 | +53 | 4 | 32 | |||||||
6 | Bayonne | 13 | 7 | 1 | 5 | 295 | 309 | –14 | 1 | 31 | |||||||
7 | Bordeaux Bègles | 13 | 6 | 1 | 6 | 279 | 276 | +3 | 4 | 30 | |||||||
8 | Toulon | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 299 | 269 | +30 | 2 | 30 | |||||||
9 | Lyon | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 302 | 328 | –26 | 1 | 29 | |||||||
10 | Clermont | 13 | 5 | 1 | 7 | 287 | 321 | –34 | 5 | 27 | |||||||
11 | Pau | 13 | 5 | 1 | 7 | 306 | 310 | –4 | 5 | 27 | |||||||
12 | Castres | 13 | 6 | 0 | 7 | 265 | 306 | –41 | 2 | 26 | |||||||
13 | Perpignan | 13 | 4 | 0 | 9 | 188 | 352 | –166 | 2 | 18 | |||||||
14 | Brive | 13 | 3 | 0 | 10 | 202 | 354 | –152 | 5 | 17 | |||||||
If teams are level at any stage, tiebreakers are applied in the following order:
| |||||||||||||||||
Green background (rows 1 and 2) will receive semi-final play-off and
2023–24 European Rugby Champions Cup places. Blue background (rows 3 to 6) will receive quarter-final play-off and Champions Cup places. Plain background will receive 2023–24 European Rugby Challenge Cup places. Pink background (row 13) will receive a relegation play-off place. Red background (row 14) will be relegated to the 2023–24 Rugby Pro D2. Updated to match(es) played on 25 December 2022. Source: Top 14 |
— AFC Vixen 🦊 14:12, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
My comment is the model I insist is used is the same used for other tables used in the sport. In terms of rugby union, this is the way the table currently is. The current table is also used in every other European league and competition provincially and internationally. Therefore, I do not understand why it should be changed to another module used in other sports. Using another module also does not improve the table, which is why I underline keeping it the way it is. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel ( talk) 22:32, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
Should this season's rugby union Top 14 Table be updated to the module-based table or remain as-is? -- (loopback) ping/ whereis 07:25, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
A: The table should remain. The consensus across rugby union articles is the wikitext based table across a wide variety of competitions and leagues. There is no pressing need to change formats.
B: The tables should be replaced with Module:Sports table. This universal module works fine for rugby union, and other, similar sports already use it; there is no need for different tables when one works for all. Continued maintenance of the table would be made easier through automated fields and error messages to identify problems, while its design improves readability and reduces size without removing information.
Copied from above:
A: My comment is the model I insist is used is the same used for other tables used in the sport. In terms of rugby union, this is the way the table currently is. The current table is also used in every other European league and competition provincially and internationally. Therefore, I do not understand why it should be changed to another module used in other sports. Using another module also does not improve the table, which is why I underline keeping it the way it is. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel ( talk) 22:32, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
B:
I am hoping that we can immediately, without discussion, remove the "tries for" and "tries against" columns, and merge the "try bonus" and "losing bonus" columns into a simple "bonus" column. The current source is clearly unreliable as three of these columns are literally "0"s across the rows. This is objectively a failed verification. No reliable source I have seen ( the official table, Le Figaro, BBC, Sky Sports) even has these numbers.
Otherwise, as a subjective argument for replacing the entire table instead of just these columns, I make three points.
Updated to match(es) played on 25 December 2022. Source:
Top 14
Rules for classification: 1) Competition points earned in head-to-head matches; 2) Points difference in head-to-head matches; 3) Try differential in head-to-head matches; 4) Points difference in all matches; 5) Try differential in all matches; 6) Points scored in all matches; 7) Tries scored in all matches; 8) Fewer matches forfeited; 9) Classification in the previous Top 14 season. |
| |||||||||||||||||
Club | Played | Won | Drawn | Lost | Points for | Points against | Points diff. | Bonus | Points | ||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Toulouse | 13 | 9 | 1 | 3 | 351 | 214 | +137 | 6 | 44 | |||||||
2 | Stade Français | 13 | 7 | 1 | 5 | 339 | 224 | +115 | 7 | 37 | |||||||
3 | Racing | 13 | 8 | 0 | 5 | 366 | 335 | +31 | 3 | 35 | |||||||
4 | Montpellier | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 348 | 282 | +66 | 6 | 34 | |||||||
5 | La Rochelle | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 306 | 253 | +53 | 4 | 32 | |||||||
6 | Bayonne | 13 | 7 | 1 | 5 | 295 | 309 | –14 | 1 | 31 | |||||||
7 | Bordeaux Bègles | 13 | 6 | 1 | 6 | 279 | 276 | +3 | 4 | 30 | |||||||
8 | Toulon | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 299 | 269 | +30 | 2 | 30 | |||||||
9 | Lyon | 13 | 7 | 0 | 6 | 302 | 328 | –26 | 1 | 29 | |||||||
10 | Clermont | 13 | 5 | 1 | 7 | 287 | 321 | –34 | 5 | 27 | |||||||
11 | Pau | 13 | 5 | 1 | 7 | 306 | 310 | –4 | 5 | 27 | |||||||
12 | Castres | 13 | 6 | 0 | 7 | 265 | 306 | –41 | 2 | 26 | |||||||
13 | Perpignan | 13 | 4 | 0 | 9 | 188 | 352 | –166 | 2 | 18 | |||||||
14 | Brive | 13 | 3 | 0 | 10 | 202 | 354 | –152 | 5 | 17 | |||||||
If teams are level at any stage, tiebreakers are applied in the following order:
| |||||||||||||||||
Green background (rows 1 and 2) will receive semi-final play-off and
2023–24 European Rugby Champions Cup places. Blue background (rows 3 to 6) will receive quarter-final play-off and Champions Cup places. Plain background will receive 2023–24 European Rugby Challenge Cup places. Pink background (row 13) will receive a relegation play-off place. Red background (row 14) will be relegated to the 2023–24 Rugby Pro D2. Updated to match(es) played on 25 December 2022. Source: Top 14 |
— AFC Vixen 🦊 14:12, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
Now that you have put the decision against me, I feel it is not right for me to continue updating the French leagues as much as I can, considering I was one of only a couple doing it, and for a brief tenure, the only person. My peaceful protest is now to say, you're on your own. Good luck. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel ( talk) 19:34, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Frietjes: Do you have a reliable source for the try and losing bonus split? As noted multiple times in the lengthy discussion above, neither LNR, Le Figaro, BBC, nor Sky Sports distinguish try and losing bonus points, and I was wondering if you were working with another reliable source that you didn't add to the bottom of the table... — AFC Vixen 🦊 05:21, 31 May 2023 (UTC)